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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:07 AM
Original message
thought on radio ad about "taxing per mileage, not gallon" ...
boy, are you going to piss off the motorcyclists, those "freedom" lovers, especially the ones who think wearing a helmet is an infringement on their freedom ...
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Possibly.
As more hybrids and then electrics come on line there will be a need to change how we do things, but we will see.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yup, our roads will continue to need maintenance.
Even if someone has a 100% electric car, they're still using the roads and should be paying for them.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. That is a good point, however
the damage a 4 ton Hummer (slight exaggeration, ok) and a 50lb scooter do to roads is not the same.

Weight would have to be factored in as well to be really fair.

Equivalent sized cars will cause the same wear and tear regardless of how much gas they use, but not all vehicles are the same size.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Exactly - a factor incorporating curb weight and mileage
then throw in a carbon tax for making me breathe their exhaust.
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. We definitely need to tax these electric vehicles more
Why not tax them on how much money they save? Hey, now there's a plan! Or, tax them for not polluting the air. WHy didn't Ryan put this in his plan?
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. So beyond a
snarky response, what's your plan for road upkeep?
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. the issue is how you would gauge it. would you trace people with a gps monitoring
device to track the mileage? i agree that we will need to change how we tax using the roads.... i think as we move away from oil as our main source of fuel for motor vehicles, we still will need to maintain our roads and there must be a way to do that hopefully without putting tracking devices on cars. i don't like the idea of tracking devices.
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. That's easy!
We could just find the mean average that people drive, add 30%, and tax the shit outta everyone who owns a car. If they breathe while driving, we could charge another 15-20% for that. Imposing penalties for those who drive with their eyes open could generate some nice revenue as well! There are all kinds of add-ons that could quickly reduce the national debt.
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. do you like to drive on paved roads? how about potholes? like to not have those?
or bridges that don't fall down? how do you think they get fixed? we pay taxes on gas so that they can fix and maintain the roads.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. You could go by the odometer.
It doesn't seem that difficult to me.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. In states that have required annual inspections, it would be easy
The mechanic inspecting the car simply writes down the mileage, checks last year's on the computer, and then you pay the difference between this year and and last year's mileage as part of your inspection fee.

However, states like Indiana don't require annual inspections.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hmm. I was thinking in terms of my state, PA where annual inspections are required.
Are there are actually states that don't require inspections of any kind? That seems dangerous. It seems like the insurance companies would have lobbied to change that a long time ago.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Uh?
I can disconnect an odometer in 5 min.
not to say it can't be rolled back 50,000 miles in 10 min.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Uh? Obviously people can break the law.
The vast majority don't. If you're messing in a major way with the odometer it will eventually be found out.

Some new special meter that does the exact some thing as an odometer will be just as subject to tampering. If you're looking for a 100% foolproof system you won't find such a thing in the real world.

You make the penalties big enough to deter most tampering.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Oh,give me a break!
Used car places(not to mention salvage yards) have been adjusting odometers
since the first auto was sold! Hope you like the perfect world. eom
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Odometers in the Volt and Leaf are digital
Tell me, how do you roll back a digital odometer? :shrug:

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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Disconect battery-wait 30 min. -reset computer. See,simple! n/t
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Nope. Odometer data stored in an EEPROM.
Welcome to the Information Age.
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. EEPROM's can be erased just like anyother flash drive.
Thanks for the welcome though!
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Of course. You think the average driver has the knowledge or inclination
to pull the dashboard apart and do it to save a couple of hundred bucks in taxes every year? And risk a fine, to boot?

Perspective matters.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. But this isn't about what used car places do, is it?
This is about the mileage traveled in a given amount of time by a current owner.

Did you perhaps hallucinate the part where I said something about a perfect world? In fact I said that you will never find a 100% foolproof system in the real world. That's the opposite of claiming a perfect world.

Why the hostility? :shrug:
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jdlh8894 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. No hostility. IMO this is a stupid idea!
Here around Atlanta,it sometimes takes over an hour to go 15 miles. Using a lot more fuel(pre-taxed) just sitting in traffic than you would pay taxes on the miles driven.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. So then miles driven is a better gauge then gallons burned, right?
If you're just sitting in traffic burning gas, then you've paid taxes for that gas but you're not causing any wear to the road. So taxing by miles driven (perhaps adjusted for vehicle weight) would make more sense, wouldn't it?
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tech9413 Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. There's only one sane way to do it odometer readings
Every year you have to renew your registration. If the renewal form doesn't already have it, add the odometer reading to the form. Then you pay the renewal fee plus the mileage fee. Another alternative if your state has inspections it can be read and paid at that time.
No expensive equipment, no tracking, no problem.
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. that's actually a great idea. then they could give you the option of paying it based on
the average of the year's mileage at a monthly rate or something. or maybe you could add that to your taxes when you do that... have a line for your odometer reading and subtract it from last year's reading and have that amount added to your taxes or something.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. It should be a yearly registration-added expense nt
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. I hardly ever check my miles per gallon
rather I check my miles per dollar as its a better fit for what it cost to go places. One of our vehicles gets a tad over 5 miles per dollar while the other one is a tad over 4 miles per dollar.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. If it were prorated by weight of the vehicle it is very plausible
Those who are using Internal Combustion Engines are paying for the drivers of electric and hybrid cars. Hybrids and electrics still use the road causing wear and tear but do not pay the equivalent in taxes.

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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. Per-gallon makes more sense. It penalizes the people who drive those fucking SUVs.
It rewards higher mileage vehicles. I see no reason why EVs should be taxed at all. Most states claim the gas tax is for the roads but end up draining the funds for other uses. Not that there's anything unusual about doing that with special-purpose taxes - they all seem to have loopholes that allow them to be siphoned off for other purposes.

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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Uhhh. Yeah. What's the deal here? Taxing miles over gas is ASS BACKWARDS.
Taxing miles over "gas" is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what we should do.

Since the VERY BEGINNING with tariffs, we've recognized that taxes are a tool for curbing undesirable economic activity.

The thing we should be ENCOURAGING (at this time) is people buying / using fuel efficient cars. This takes that and REVERSES it.

IT'S COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!

It's CHEAPER to make a gas guzzler car. The market rewards people buying gas guzzlers by having them cheap. The ECONOMIC costs of having gas guzzlers goes WAY BEYOND their cost.

So, as we have done from the very beginning, it would make sense for gov't to use gas taxes to discourage not just the use of gas guzzlers but their purchase.

As for paying for the roads, there's any number of ways to do that - this is just about the worst way you could do it, however.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. I think we agree here. If you get 8 mpg, that should hit you in the wallet hard.
Taxing gas directly makes driving huge guzzler things more expensive. That makes sense.

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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. if you tax on mileage you still hit them where it hurts because they get 8mpg.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. But how do you verify that? If you buy a gallon of gas and it only gets 8 miles - self-verifying.
You can't really go on estimated MPG for models. It doesn't take into account driving habits, loads, etc. I think it works pretty well as it is.

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