Help! If you can answer Question re- Eco-friendlier A/C Options

[snot]

We need to replace a commercial, 3 ton, 3 phase, package a/c unit. We've gotten quotes from several companies, and if we go with an energy-saving unit, it'll cost $1,500 more even with the tax credit. My partner says that per online research, the electric bill savings wouldn't be that great -- that we'd have to keep the same unit for 20 years in order to get back the extra $1,500 for the eco-friendly unit -- when the life expectancy of the unit is probably only about 10 years. He says the only way we'd be better off with the eco-friendly unit is if the cost for electricity increases dramatically during the next ten years. I'm guessing that could happen, but who knows.

I'd be interested in advice from anyone who knows more about this stuff than we do.

[ixion]

1. If you're putting an eco-friendly AC in a non-green house

You're probably not going to get the savings you're looking for. "Green" stuff isn't cheaper by any stretch, and that goes for technology and building materials and everything else. You need to be resourceful and look for deals.

Given that, you might think about ways to improve the efficiency of your house.

Just tossing some stuff out there.

[Kringle]

2. 20 year payoff... forget it .nt

[Schema Thing]

3. surprising though, that the savings is only $6.25 per month....

...on a commercial property big enough to require that kind of serious AC unit.


I'd check his numbers.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

4. Well, first, I have to ask how old the equipment you are replacing is

Case in point. I am the President of a 116 unit condo Hoa. I have also spent over 43 years in the HVAC industry. We just finished replacing all of our 22 year old, common area HVAC equipment. The old stuff was, at best, operating at 6 S.E.E.R.(seasonal energy efficiency rating. The method the industry uses to determine the energy efficiency of a particular piece of A.C. equipment.) The new equipment has a S.e.e.r. rating of 13. In other words, more than twice as efficient as the old stuff. As this stuff runs 24/7, we expect to cut our electricity bill by about 50% which will pay for the cost of installation within about 10 years. The average life expectancy of this equipment is closer to 20 years that ten so we expect it to pay dividends for the last 10 years of its useful life.

If we could have afforded to buy higher efficiency equipment we would have but we simply didn't have the budget for it. The real good stuff is really expensive but keep in mind that we are looking 20 years down the line, not simply the next quarter.

My advice to you would depend on how long you intend to keep the property in question and what the condition of the existing equipment is. Also, I am located in the S.F. Bay Area with a very mild climate. If you live in an area with a more severe climate, your energy savings could be more.

My basic advice is that if you plan to be at the same location for a long time, buy the best, most efficient equipment you can afford. It WILL pay for itself. If you are only going to be their for a few years, spend the minimum necessary because, unfortunately, the next person does not yet care that you have installed the top of the line HVAC equipment. They are still more interested in the decor.

Also, if you are being told that the equipment only has a useful life of 10 years the equipment is crap and you should be looking for better equipment. Carrier (also known as Payne, Bryant, Dan and Night depending on your area of the country) Trane and Lennox are all brands that should last for about 20 years, not 10. If you are being offered York, Rheem, Hiel or a few others, you will be lucky if they last 10 years.

Last but not least, be aware that the building trades are suffering a GREAT depression and many companies are willing to install your equipment for close to cost just for the cash flow so get lots of bids but, for God sake, check references because there are more hacks out there than ethical contractors and you can buy the best equipment on Earth but if it's not installed properly, you will not benefit.

P.S. The lowest bid is not always your best bargain. As Asimov once said "When it comes to construction, you can have it fast, you can have it cheap, you can have it good. Pick any two.

If you have more questions, PM me. I've been doing this for over 40 years and it is one thing I'm very good at but I don't think most others at DU would find to be stimulating conversation.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I don't know where you live but I did a little research a few years ago about my utility company and they have NEVER asked for a rate decrease.

[txlibdem]

5. Lots of good advice here

Great post.

I would add that a geothermal system will save even more. Installation costs would be higher so you'd need a number of years to pay off the extra.

[Javaman]

6. You can do what a friend of mine did in Oklahoma back during the depression...

His parent were sharecroppers, poor as dirt, but they had A/C!

How, you ask?

They would take burlap sacks and fill them with straw, then dip them in their rain barrels.

They would then hang them in front of the windows. The wind would cool the water in the straw converting a hot dry breeze into a cool damp one. Much like the tubed coils on an A/C windown unit.

So I had to try it. It works!

They may not have had the explanation of science as to how and why this worked, but people have always found clever ways of doing things.

Here were his parents, both had less than a 3rd grade education, yet kept their house cool via primitive A/C in the summer.

[snot]

7. Thanks, everyone!

[skids]

8. Ice bear?

Maybe this?

http://www.ice-energy.com/TECHNOLOGY/ICEREADYROOFTOPUNITS/tabid/368/Default.aspx

Whether it works financially depends on how your utility bills and what the swing is between night and day temperatures in your region.