Just a reminder, in January 2010 - Maine produced 51% of its electricity from renewables

[jpak]

http://ei-01.eia.doe.gov/cfapps/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=ME

and only 44% from natural gas - and much of that was cogeneration at paper mills.

and Maine Yankee nuclear plant produced nothing - yup

that is all

:D

[kristopher]

1. That's how it is done..

"In September 1999, Maine’s Public Utilities Commission adopted a renewable portfolio standard requiring that at least 30 percent of retail electricity sales come from renewable sources. In June 2006, Maine adopted another renewable portfolio goal to increase renewable energy capacity by 10 percent between September 1, 2005 and 2017. Renewable sources that are used to satisfy the State’s new capacity requirement cannot be used to satisfy the Public Utilities Commission’s portfolio requirement. Maine made its renewable capacity goal a mandatory target in 2007."

"Way to go!" for the people of the Maine.

[jpak]

2. Those stats don't include Maine's five operating wind farms - the EIA map doesn't show them either

Mars Hill
Stetson Mountain
Transcanada (Kibby Mountain)
Vinalhaven
Beaver Ridge

and the hundreds of residential wind turbines operating in the state

:thumbsup:

[FBaggins]

6. Don't you mean "way to go" for the people of the OTHER nearby states?

Maine didn't actually use renewables to produce 51% of the electricity they used... it was 51% of the electricity that they produced.

It was far less of the electricity that they USED.

Someone else had to produce that. Good thing for them that nearby states had excess reliable baseload capacity.

[Codeine]

8. Nice catch.

Some folks love to leave out the details. :hi:

[FBaggins]

10. Indeed they do.

They also forgot to mention that residents paid substantially higher electricity rates than the rest of the nation.

[jpak]

12. LOL!!!! what a stupid post, Maine *exports* ~40% of the electricity it produces

renewables would satisfy 60+% of in-state demand

today

repeat

today

great catch!

not!

yup!

:rofl:

[FBaggins]

13. Can you back that up?

And then explain why they still import electricity from Canada?

[joshcryer]

15. Cite for that? They produce 154 trillion Btu but consume 456 trillion Btu.

From: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=ME

That page says that Maine produces 1,501 thousand MWh of electricity.

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/states/electricity.cfm/state=ME">This page says that Maine consumes 12,363 million kWh

1,501,000 MWh = 1,501,000,000 kWh. That's 1,501 million kWh.

Maine, therefore, uses 8 times more electricity than it generates.

Your statement is false.

[FBaggins]

17. I think that you've comingled electricity production and energy use in general.

I think that jpak's mistake is looking at total electricity generation and then only counting direct sales to customers... Assuming that the difference must be exported.

[joshcryer]

18. No I used both figures for electricity consumption/production.

Maine does produce more electricity from renewables than it does from fossil fuels, however, their electrical consumption far outpaces their production, they're importing most of their electricity.

edit: I realize the Btu figure in the subject line is raw energy usage/production, but the content of the actual post uses electrical consumption/production. The subject line was just to illustrate that they're importing a lot of their energy.

[FBaggins]

30. This hint there is that electricity prod/consumption is

rarely cited at BTU.

One of the oft-missed facts re: Maine is that electricity is a much smaller part of their energy usage compared to most states. It isn't often hot enough to need A/C and almost none of their winter heating is electric (it's usually heating oil). Despite the "green" image given here, the VAST majority of their energy usage comes from "burning stuff" (wood/coal/oil/gas). The REAL change there (in generation) in recent years (post nuclear) has been a shift from burning oil to burning NGas.

Not being a big crude-producing state, of course they import the vast majority of their

[jpak]

19. of course I can - Maine produces 16,129 MMWh each year and consumes 11, 674 MMWh each year

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/page/state_profiles/maine.html

total renewbable generation was 7,945 MMWh per year

7,945 ÷ 11,674 = 0.68 x 100 = 68% of in-state demand could be met by renewables in Maine

today, if Maine did not export electricity

yup!

(this is too easy)

:rofl:

[joshcryer]

22. Fair enough.

Though your behavior leaves a bit to be desired.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

25. Slander.

[jpak]

31. My behavior has been influenced by pronuclear posters that claim anyone critical of nuclear power

power is a "science illiterate" etc.

Oh yeah - Maine residents consume only 4413 MMWh of electricity each year.

Maine generates ~7,900 MMWh of renewable electricity each year - nearly twice required by the residential sector.

Which means Maine could *easily* satisfy its residential needs with renewable electricity.

((((TODAY))))

yup!

:rofl:

[joshcryer]

38. That would only be true if they didn't use natural gas heating.

Interestingly, residential sector across the whole US emits more CO2 from natural gas than it does coal.

[joshcryer]

39. FYI, 99% of the posters here do not make the kinds of posts you do.

It's three people against one, all making disruptive, snarky, copy-paste jobs.

I mean, "reminders."

[FBaggins]

29. Wrong.

Review post #17. You made precisely the error I said that you did.

Maine produces 16,129 MMWh each year

Each year? No... that was 2007. But that's a reasonable error. Missing the fact that they imported 4,263 MMWh from Canada that same year is a bit more egg-on-face-ish... but then so is:

and consumes 11,674 MMWh each year

Nope. That's just retail sales. You left out direct use (substantial) and transmission losses.

i.e., If a factory burns wood to generate the electricity they need to power the plant, you counted the electricity as produced... but not consumed.

[jpak]

32. nope - I'm right, Maine is a net exporter of electricity and you are wrong wrng wrong

and Maine exports windpower to Canada - not the other way around.

:rofl:

[FBaggins]

36. You're not even CLOSE to right.

You claimed that they export 40% of the electricity they produce... this is flat wrong.

You posted false numbers for in-state demand and then miraculously assumed that the rest of the supply must have been exported.

You claim here "Maine exports windpower to Canada - not the other way around." I don't know if you're playing games with adding "wind" to the statement, but in the year we discussed (2007), Maine imported almost five times as much electricity from Canada as they exported to Canada.

You offer "Maine is a net exporter of electricity" as a rebuttal to my (correct) point that they rely on neighboring states with reliable baseload capacity. The statement isn't responsive, because you can easily be a net exporter and still rely on neighbors' capacity if you have a significantly variable level of production. It is, in fact, just what you would expect.



In short... you continue to make a fool of yourself while laughing at others.

[FBaggins]

40. Where'd you go jpak?

I was getting such a kick out watching you laugh at others while providing everyone else a reason to laugh at you.

I suppose if I had been that far wrong I would hope to burry the thread quickly too.

:rofl:

[FBaggins]

41. kick

I'm sure he's around here somewhere. I'm sure that he just missed the post.

[Statistical]

33. Renewable energy is 49.3% of generation, you are ignoring transmissions losses.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Assuming consumption = generation would ignore the 7%-12% in transmission losses that occur.

Still roughly 50% renewable energy is great however most states without nuclear power are doing far far worse (like OK with no nuclear and 92% fossil fuel generation).

[OnlinePoker]

35. Generation is in Thousand Megawatthours, not MMWH

Of that 7,945 TMWH generated in 2007, over half was generated in green house gas producing plants (burning wood waste, landfill gas, and biomass). Only 0.6% of all generation was produced by wind. I'm sure it's somewhat higher with the new wind farms online, but I can't see it making major inroads into the overall generation for some time to come. The problem is, this info is 3 years out of date so we don't know the current status. You would think the EIA would be able to produce data sets more rapidly than that.

[Statistical]

37. Maine does not export 40% of the power it produces.

Think about how silly that sounds. It produces almost half its power by natural gas which is one of the most expensive forms of power.
If it had 40% spare generation it would simply cut back of natural gas plants and
1) reduce CO2
2) reduce average cost of electricity and lower rates for consumers


You simply fail to ignore the MASSIVE amount of direct use (power produced onsite) which is common for large scale power users.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/maine.html

2008
Net Generation: 17.0 million MWh

Retail Sale Consumption: 11.7
Direct Use Consumption: 3.7

That is a difference of only 17 - 11.7 - 3.7 = 1.6 million MWh

however you can't directly compare generation & consumption. There are transmission losses. The average for United States is about 7%.
That would be about 0.8 million of the 1.6 million MWh difference is transmission losses.

Without exact net export number it is hard to say how much was exported but it certainly isn't in the 40% range. More like 5% NET exports at most.

[joshcryer]

16. Yeah, looks as though Maine imports 8 times as much energy that it produces.

From: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_profiles.cfm?sid=ME

That page says that Maine produces 1,501 thousand MWh of electricity.

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/states/electricity.cfm/state=ME">This page says that Maine consumes 12,363 million kWh

1,501,000 MWh = 1,501,000,000 kWh. That's 1,501 million kWh.

Maine, therefore, uses 8 times more electricity than it generates.

[jpak]

20. wrong!

:rofl:

[kristopher]

21. Pssssst, Junior....

Total Net Electricity Generation 1,501 thousand MWh 0.4% Jan-10

Does the month-year entry for "period" mean it is not the same unit of time as the other, which reads:

Maine electricity consumption in 2005 12,363

1,501GWh X 12 = ?

1,501 GWh X 12 = 18,012GWh no?

18012 > 12,363GWh no?

Approx 32% more, no?

Since we have only a monthly number perhaps it is too soon to tell what the total annual will be.

[joshcryer]

23. I didn't see the Jan-10.

Thanks.

[kristopher]

26. I know, you were too intent on "slandering" JPAK.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nederland]

28. That's how it's done?

You mean, generating most of your power by hydro and burning wood? Is that your solution?

[Titanothere]

3. It's a little easier to go green when your entire state is a Bed and Breakfast n/t

[jpak]

4. Yeah - its one gianormous B&B

:rofl:

[Codeine]

5. Whoop-di-doo.

There are nearly three times as many people in the city of Los Angeles alone as there are in the whole bloody state of Maine. A 9V battery and the solar cell from a broken pocket calculator could power the entire place.

[jpak]

7. It sucks to be LA then

As Maine Goes...etc.

:rofl:

[NNadir]

9. Um...um...except that in 1994, Maine only generated 15.54% of electricity by fossil fuels and

and dumping and distributing all of the waste in all living tissue on the planet.

That would be the year that stupid people forced the cloture of the single largest climate change gas free energy plant, the Maine Yankee plant, which produced in 1994, its last full year of operation 40% of Maine's electricity in one little building.

Maine's source of electricity 1990 - 2008: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/sept05me.xls

It's just like I thought. Anti-nukes are PROUD of burning more dangerouus fossil fuels than they did in 1994.

I have always thought of anti-nukes as pure dangerous fossil fuel apologists, which is why they speak in precent talk.

Have a nice dangerous fossil fuel cheering day.

[jpak]

11. ummm...what a stupid post - the (((owners))) shut down Maine Yankee without any prior notice

Maine voters *rejected* three referendums to shut Maine Yankee down.

yup

The owners shut it down more than 16 years before its license expired because it was an unprofitable piece of radioactive shite.

yup

and Maine gets MORE low-carbon electricity from renewables each year than Nuclear-New-Jersey-Which-Is-A-Fraud.

tell us about all the oil refineries in NJ

tell us about all the LNG terminals they plan to build there

tell us all about the filthy grandfathered coal-fired power plants they operate in Nuclear-New-Jersey-Which-Is-A-Fraud

tell us ALL about the *massive* transmission lines that will be built to supply Nuclear-New-Jersey-Which-Is-A-Fraud with *deadly* coal-fired electricity skimmed from mountain tops in West Virginia.

Maine (((EXPORTS))) renewable electricity

Nuclear-New-Jersey-Which-Is-A-Fraud IMPORTs 35% of its electricity from Dangerous Fossil Fuel Plants.

Nuclear-New-Jersey-Which-Is-A-Fraud can suck it

yup

the end

[joshcryer]

14. So profit > social costs of fossil fuels.

[Statistical]

34. Actually the NRC revoked license for Maine Yankee.

Then again who cares about facts. Both of you altered history to support your world view. What else is new.