Gas prices surge as oil prices fall.....

[losthills]

If you think that gasoline prices are soaring because of a shortage of oil, then you're a dupe.
It's all being manipulated, and people are making huge fortunes playing us for suckers.
And congress and the white house won't do a damn thing about it...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/29/gas-prices-keep-climbing_n_104028.html

It may not be all that bad-- because high prices are the only thing that will get people to cut back or switch to alternatives-- but what do you do when cutting back causes the price to go higher still? And what do you do about people who are robbing us and getting away with it?

[midnight]

1. Greg Palast has revealed that Hillary Clinton has made the oil

barrons very nervous with the information that the reserves should be released cutting the gouging off.

[phantom power]

2. Releasing the reserves is close to meaningless.

If it had any effect at all, it would last only until the reserves are empty. Which would take about 6 months. Then what?

[Terry in Austin]

13. Reserves: more like 35 days

The SPR is currently at 704 million barrels. The US uses 20 million barrels a day.

[GliderGuider]

15. Reserves are tricky things

Your math is OK, but two other things need to be considered about strategic petroleum reserves. They are usually thought of as protecting against a loss of exports as opposed to the loss of all a country's oil flow. And most SPRs have a maximum withdrawal rate governed by the logistics of getting the oil out of them. From Wikipedia:

According to the World Factbook<5>, the United States imports a net 12 million barrels (1,900,000 m³) of oil a day (MMbd), so the SPR holds about a 58-day supply. However, the maximum total withdrawal capability from the SPR is only 4.4 million barrels (700,000 m³) per day, making it a 160 + day supply.

So you're both right -- the SPR holds 35 days' worth of total US consumption (and 58 days of import replacements) but withdrawals could run for almost 6 months before the reserve was pumped dry.

[Dead_Parrot]

18. Ahh, so it's rate of delivery vs total energy.

Always a tricky one.
:evilgrin:

[GliderGuider]

19. Now that you mention it, it does have a familiar ring.

Flow rate vs. reserve capacity. Why does that sound so bloody familiar???

I should take a Peak in an Oil textbook and see if they discuss the difference :-)

[elocs]

3. If gas prices go significantly down towards $2/gallon,

Americans will resume their gas guzzling ways and forget about all of the high prices and hard times of today. They will once again snap up the big trucks and SUVs. We are so addicted to oil and the freedom it gives us to go anywhere and everywhere at any time, more often than not alone, that if somebody discovered oil in the Grand Canyon that Americans would scream, "Drill for it, drill for it!!" No area of the country would be too pristine or sacred if it contained our preferred drug: oil.

[liberal N proud]

5. And maybe some people will be able to eat again

[elocs]

7. You know, I don't altogether buy that (remember: I said "altogether")

I think for many it depends upon how and what they eat. If they are going to eat a lot of junk, processed foods, and a diet heavy with meat then it is hard to eat cheaply. It is sad that there are hungry people in this rich country where food prices are lower than most of the rest of the world, but it is clear that our diet is not good or healthy and ironically that is what may make it more expensive than it should be.

So yes, lower oil prices may allow some people to eat again the way they used to eat which may not have been healthy to begin with. In my area there are a good number of large Asian families who manage to eat well and inexpensively using raw ingredients and fresh foods in season. Again, that is not to deny that there are hungry people here, but many people would be better served and go less hungry if they learned a better diet and how to eat and prepare food that does not come from a box or can. (I do donate to my local food pantries and food drives.)

[The2ndWheel]

4. "but what do you do when cutting back causes the price to go higher still?"

Ask the rest of the world to stop wanting more?

That's why conservation is pointless until every single person on the planet has everything they want/need, and never less than they want/need, and the additional few billion people to be added to our totals have everything they want/need, and never less than they want/need. Until that point, all conservation does is lower the price, allowing more people to use more.

I know conservation within a global system is pointless. I don't own a car. How much is gas, and are our environmental problems getting better?

"And what do you do about people who are robbing us and getting away with it?"

Stop buying what they're selling?

[GliderGuider]

6. "as oil prices fall..."

Yeah, they've tumbled headlong to $128!

People who discount physical factors in the current global marketplace are guilty of willful myopia. But I guess playing the blame game is a lot more psychologically rewarding than basing conclusions on evidence.

[losthills]

9. The point is that high gas prices are not related to supply.

There are no stations with "no gas today" signs, there are no stations going out of business, there is no rationing. There are speculators buying it up and sitting on it. If these high transportation costs drive up the prices of food, goods and services and triggers a recession, they don't care. Because they will have taken their profits. Everyone knows that we are running out of oil-- but we are not running out of oil *now.* Surging gasoline prices are the result of speculation.

[Dead_Parrot]

12. Of course there isn't

Pay no attention to those brown people behind the curtain

http://www.energybulletin.net/32909.html

Oh, wait, let me guess:
If it's not in southern California, you don't give a fuck.

Do I win a prize?

[losthills]

16. You really get off on making a fool of yourself....

There's probably someone out there that can help you.

Is there a psychologist in the house?

[Dead_Parrot]

17. Wow. you really don't give a shit, do you?

Let me guess, you're one of those "hard-working white Americans" Hillary likes so much.

[tom_paine]

8. They're just setting us up for The Great Even-Year Election Price Drop

It's all about helping the Bushies. For the Oil Barons are Bushies and the Bushies are Oil Barons. Just like in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006, sometime in the August-September timeframe, gas prices are going to drop like a rock.

This will have the effect of causing a heaving sigh of releief that will "release the national endorphins", metaphorically-speaking. Like a Heroin Dealer jacking up his prices for a year, then dropping them dramatically. The reaction of his Junkie Clientele is autonomic and involuntary.

The point, of course, is to further, hypnotize and neutralize what little power the Amerikan Subjects have left. The point is to release those ol' "feel-good junkie endorphins", and laying off the Oil Price Theft for six months prior to even-year elections, makes people feel good and dazed.

This aids the tyrants who rely on apathy and need to make this "election" close enough to make it plausible when they steal the "election" and install McSameasBush on the throne.

Wait for it. It's coming soon.

[hunter]

10. I think that's an optimistic point of view.

You don't cut steaks out of the cow you are milking. These high fuel prices are doing permanent damage to the U.S. market.

I think if this was a political manipulation having anything to do with the upcoming election then diesel would still cost less than gasoline. Instead it seems the world demand for diesel and other fuel oils is driving these price increases. This creates a small surplus of gasoline which drives down the price of gasoline in the U.S.

My own guess is that we have lost our superpower status for a combination of reasons, both geological (peak oil) and political. After the deadly debacle of Iraq, major oil exporters now recognize that they don't have to pay attention to what the U.S. wants. It's become very obvious that the U.S. can't use military force in oil exporting nations without doing very significant damage to the U.S. economy.

In this post superpower world nations like Venezuela, Iran, and Russia can simply tell us to go home and pound rocks whenever we get belligerent -- they've figured out how to deal with our political skulduggery and bullying.

It's not our oil, it never was our oil, and there are plenty of customers in the world marketplace who won't throw temper tantrums and start shooting when they don't get their way.

[tom_paine]

11. "You don't cut steaks out of the cow you are milking."

That is certainly true, in a commonsense way. But if there is one thing that history has shown us, when one goes from the Liberty to the Tyranny side of political leadership, such common sense doesn;t work.

Stalin cut steaks out of his milk cow, so did Hitler. In fact one of the reasons mosty couldn't wrap their minds around the Holocaust despite the growing evidence (at least until the camps were busted open and we finally saw for ourselves in the flesh), was because it was such a massive strategic blunder in terms of manpower and materials diverted from the war effort.

EVERY totalitarian leader, Left or Right, from Mussolini to Mao, from Pol Pot to Pinochet, they ALL cut steaks out of their milk cow.

Like it or not, Bushler and his Henchmen are on their side of history, not the Liberty side. The Bushies may not be as bad as the Nazis in driect evil terms, but they shares many of the same sociopathies. One of these sociopathies is the desire to "teach the Inferiors our rightful place".

And THAT sociopathy, common to all totalitarian tyrants, overwhelms the common sense point of view laid out in your quote about cutting the steaks ofut of milk cows.

Sociopaths DO cut the steak out of milk cows, to carry the metaphor further. It is who they are. Even if in their minds, they know it is deleterious in the long term, they can't stop in the short term. The steak is SOOOO delicious, and that uppity cow is always a pain in the ass that needs to be taught a lesson.

PLUS, the sociopath can always lie up a storm and steal the neighbor's cow, if push comes to shove.

You make a good point, it just is invalid when it comes up against tthe mind of the totalitarian tyrants. History shows this conclusively.

[Terry in Austin]

14. "It's all being manipulated"

With all due respect, conspiracy theories are pretty cold comfort...