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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:40 PM
Original message
A typical nuclear reactor problem meets the news cycle
Seven People Killed, Thousands Of Homes Destroyed In Earthquake In Japan

... The nuclear plant at Kashiwazaki was automatically shut down during the quake, avoiding further risk. Tokyo Electric Power Company official Motoyasu Tamaki said that there was no release of radioactivity or damage to the reactors ...

http://www.rttnews.com/FOREX/gblnews.asp?date=07/16/200...


Japan quake victims take shelter

... Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) said 1.5 liters of water containing radioactive materials had leaked from a unit at its Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power plant -- the world's largest. A similar amount of contaminated water had been released into the ocean and had had no effect on the environment, the company said in a statement, adding that the quake was stronger than its reactors had been designed to cope with ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUST1480172...


Strong Quake Rocks Japan, Nuclear Plant
Strong Quake Rocks Northwestern Japan, Kills 8, Causes Fire and Leak at Nuclear Power Plant


... The fire was put out shortly after noon and there was no damage to the reactors ...

... The plant leaked about 315 gallons of water, said Katsuya Uchino, another Tokyo Electric official ...

http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=33...


Japan Hit by 6.8-Magnitude Quake; Reactor Damaged (Update3)
By Mariko Yasu and Jonathan Tirone

... Tokyo Electric Power Co. said a nuclear reactor at its Kashiwazaki-Kariwa power plant in Niigata was ruptured. Two cracks opened in reactor No. 6, leaking <350 gallons of> radioactive water into the ocean, the company said on its Web site ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afz...


Tokyo Electric Ordered to Keep Kashiwazaki Nuclear Plant Shut
By Megumi Yamanaka

July 17 (Bloomberg) -- Japan's trade ministry ordered Tokyo Electric Power Co. to keep its Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power station in Niigata prefecture, central Japan, closed until the plant's safety can be assessed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aHf...



Lots of coverage of the initial "no radioactivity released, no damage to the reactor" version, followed by gradually worse versions ...
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not good if they are designing reactors on the Pacific Rim
unable to withstand a 6.8 earthquake. Seems like faulty foresight.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Probably a broken pipe
doubt the pressure system was compromised. You think the Japanese didn't plan for something like this?
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Read the links. Latest version is cracked reactor, not broken pipes. And
since the company has admitted the quake substantially exceeded design specs, I think the conclusion would be, no, the Japanese didn't plan for something like this
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Will kill less than the saudis and tinhorns
that petro pays for. Nuclear is the only way we can support industrial demand for power. Can't smelt aluminum with solar or wind.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. For many years in the US, most aluminum smelting used hydro
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. get a freznel lens and try to melt some stuff with the sun. you'd be surprised.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. a 36 inch one will melt a beer can in a matter of moments
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. You can smelt Al with hydro and geothermal power - which most Al smelters use today
Iceland is planning large Al smelters that will use geothermal electricity.

...and nuclear electricity is jjust too expensive to use to smelt Al...
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Typical effort to make a non-fatal problem into a big deal.
Maybe you're expecting something exotic, like a single death?

I'm sure TEPCO is concealing 50,000 dead, aren't they?

I'm sure you guys will be discussing this endlessly for at least ten years, just as you discussed the leaky pipe at Sellafield for many years, even though the number of injuries associated it was zero.

You do not discuss the people who will died last week from air pollution in Japan, any of the many thousands.

The "typical" news cycle is to make nuclear issues the <em>only</em> issue that counts. The fact is that you will prove incapable of producing as many deaths as happened at the Texas City refinery accident (the details of which were not available for many days after the accident).

You can offer no alternative to fossil fuels that will work on an exajoule scale, but you insist, that the <em>only</em> form of energy that must be perfect is nuclear energy.

I will cover this incident in another week. I won't forget this accident at all, like you "forgot" Texas City, "forgot" Banquio, "forgot," the Occidental North Sea accident, "forgot," the dead Russian coal miners last month, "forgot" the thousands of dead Ukrainians killed between 1990 and 2000, "forgot" the dead in the oil wars.

There is no such thing as risk free energy. There is only risk minimized energy. That energy is nuclear energy.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. ... Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has criticised the country's nuclear industry over
its response to this week's earthquake. Mr Abe has criticised the owner of the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power plant, saying the company's response to Monday's earthquake was too late. A fire broke out at the plant as a result of the quake, and the company has subsequently revealed that radioactive water and gas were discharged, and drums containing low-level waste fell over and spilled ... The ground movement in in Monday's quake was more than double the level anticipated in the plant's design.

Japan PM criticises nuclear industry after leak
By North Asia correspondent Shane McLeod
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/18/1981167.htm?s...
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. A fire?
A real one, you mean with flames and everything?

Wow.

It must have been real radioactive. We must be talking Godzilla and Rodan radioactive.

I'll bet when Prime Minister Abe isn't worrying about Godzilla and Rodan being stirred up by the giant radioactive fire, he's worried about power lines catching fire.

I mean if Prime Minister Abe, criticizes something, well that's enough for me. He's a sharp guy that Abe: He knows all about really, really, really cool stuff, like history and physics and the generation of Japanese monsters.

In the historical footage of Godzilla and Rodan trashing Tokyo, there were lots of fires caused by power lines. Maybe Abe doesn't remember. (According to Chinese sources, Abe has a bad memory though.) I don't believe that during their rampage - the Godzilla/Rodan rampage which was triggered by nuclear weapons testing - Japan had any nuclear power plants, but I could be wrong about that.

I'm sure you could tell us, with your special insight to secret news.

When you're done exposing the international cover up of the 55,987,610 deaths associated with the NUCLEAR FIRE!!!!!!! FIRE!!!!!!!! FIRE!!!!!!! maybe you tell us about the cover up behind the return of Godzilla and Rodan.

It's so nice to see you back here at the E&E forum by the way. I think we all missed your activism in fighting transformer fires. If nothing else, you were a leader in lobbying for the banning of electricity.

Speaking of transformers, have you seen the movie yet, or is it impolitic to talk about kid's stuff when you're mourning the millions of dead and planning the 400 exajoules of renewable energy that will solve the climate change problem?
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razzleberry Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. thousands of Japanese have died, since this incident
how about some sympathy?
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10.  ... Masanori Hamada, a professor of earthquake engineering at Tokyo's Waseda University, said the
quake showed the government should push to increase the quake-resistance standards of its reactors. "It's unthinkable that water leaks and fire could be triggered so easily," said Hamada. "TEPCO must provide a full explanation to the public." ...

Japan Nuclear Plant Suffers Malfunctions
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007/07/17/ap/headline...
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Gee. Can't you even wait to bury the millions who died before jumping to conclusions?
I mean, I know very well that after the piper alpha fire you were all over the world trying to shut down the oil industry, but have some respect.

I mean there are millions of Japanese who died in this terrible nuclear accident, bodies are littering all of Japan and now, with all of the world's nuclear plants about to shut down, we will need to burn a few extra billion tons of coal, so couldn't you just restrain your gloating a little bit?

I mean, this is the WORST ENERGY DISASTER OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVERYBODY IN JAPAN WILL DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL OF KOREA AND CHINA TOO!!!!!!!!!




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