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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:24 PM
Original message
How does one buy silver?
Do banks sell silver coins? Someone told me a pawn shop. But that doesn't sound appealing.
What options are there to purchase silver?
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lysosome Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. coin shop. Ingots.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. google
shows a coin shop nearby. Surprising, as I live in po-dunk nowhere.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Broker?
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. You can get silver and gold coins from Kitco
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Have you ordered from them before?
That would be the most convenient. Are the prices about the same as a coin shop?
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I've bought some gold coins from them.
Their prices are as low as your likely to find for bullion coins.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Kitco sucks.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 11:37 AM by SlowDownFast
Way overpriced.

Use APMEX, BullionDirect or golddealer.com. Your local coin shops sometimes have deals, but most likely can't compete with the ones I listed, albeit you have to take into account shipping charges for online purchases.

They are trusted and timely and insured. I have been purchasing PM's for YEARS.

American Eagles are your best bet - they are best known and the most liquid, hence the higher premiums. Bars from a trusted mint (and marked so) are second. 90% "junk" silver - pre-1964 quarters and dimes - third, and good for smaller transactions, should it come to that.

The rule is: the larger the purchase, the better the deals.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. Tulving.
Tulving.com is also widely known and trusted among goldbugs/silverbugs.

BUT - they have a 20oz gold minimum and/or 500oz silver minimum, last I checked.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-11-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. 'Junk' silver.
From a good coin shop you can also buy 'junk' silver; that is non-collectable, old silver dimes and quarters.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. e-Bay has a coin section, but you really have to know what you're doing.
The Mint is another option. Depends on what you want to invest in. Or try MX-nice jewelry. :hide:
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's the thing ...
I don't wear jewelry at all. My grandmother's thin gold wedding band is all I wear.
And the pearl bracelet my son brought me from Qatar on occasion.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Depends on what you are in the market for
circulated scrap is trading on the Bay at melt (or near) pricing. American Silver Eagles and Canadian Maples are $2-$2.50 per/oz over spot. (I'm factoring in the cost of shipping) This trend has been going on for a several years. The only time that trend broke was during the last dip, when bulk lots were selling above. What was interesting, if you did a little looking, you could find who the bidders were through their feedback rating numbers. The large wholesalers were stocking up.

Where caution is required is if you are looking for upgrades, and/or tough dates. Grading comes into play, and there are plenty of sellers that don't have a clue what the distinctions are. There is also a ton of confusion regarding "doubled die" and "mechanical/strike doubling" One is a true value adding, rare mint error, and the other a very common effect from mass production that adds zip to the value of a coin. An issue of "Photograde" is worth the investment. Cherrypickers' Guide is another handy reference.

Some key eBay phrases to look for are:
Un-searched roll........This actually means that these have been pawed over quite well
unopened/sealed mint set.......since the mint never licked the envelopes, someone took a peek
Rare......often used to describe a 1964 circulated Washington quarter......hmmmmmm
Original bank roll.......But the coins shown are in a plastic tube.
Shotgun roll......another sure bet that these coins have gotten a good look-see
Uncleaned.......If the coin is real bright, you can bet it's been dipped.
Estate......Like this is supposed to make any difference?
Monster rainbow toned.......probably sat on a window sill for a couple days in dish soap and water. (It does work)
proof-like.......but the seller has 50 "proof-like" coins listed

As for the silver content in US coins: dimes, quarters, and halves minted prior to 1965 are 90% silver/10% copper or .724oz silver/$1 face value. Melt value is figured at .715oz/$1. Silver dollars have .7734oz silver per coin. Multiply current spot price X silver content X face value = silver value

hope this helps...........ymmv
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thank you.
I am getting an education, and I'm wiling to invest my time to figure out what I'm doing.
I used to collect unique antiques, so I'm familiar with the research required.

Thank you so much.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. If we get to the stage
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 06:31 PM by Po_d Mainiac
that silver coins are used as barter, it will make little difference to the dairy farmer if the coin is a doubled die proof or circulated. They both will be judged by their silver content..period.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
54. But there will always be collectors
Even during the Great Depression, dealers such as Stack's and B. Max Mehl were doing a brisk business, because there will always be people with money, even during the worst of economic times. The trick is to learn about the markets and know who wants what.

For that matter, the dairy farmer probably wouldn't even care if the coin were silver or clad, you probably wouldn't get anywhere near the value of a silver coin in a swap for milk. You'd be better off selling the coins to a reputable dealer and getting near-market prices for them than trying to get their silver value from people who don't know or don't care.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-11-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #54
72. Reputable dealer??...a very rare mintage indeed.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-12-09 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Granted, a reputable dealer is a very low mintage
The cynic might say that finding one would be akin to finding a 1909-S VDB penny in pocket change.
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. For what purpose?
If you are looking to buy silver as a store of wealth or value, you have to bear in mind the "liquidity" of the form.

Wherever and what ever you buy is secondary to exactly what you are trying to accomplish. If you are looking to buy a precious metal in a form that is readily and easily exchangeable for cash or another precious metal at some point in the future, i.e. it is "liquid" (and remains so), then it is best to buy those instruments or forms that are highly desirable on the open market; Ingots or pure coins that are commonly traded.

As others above have indicated, there are many ways to do it, either through a Pawn Shop, local coin dealer or on the internet.

Doing it in such a way as to ensure you are getting what you pay for, minimize commissions and reduce risk in inherent in holding such a commodity takes a bit more research than you are likely to get via a thread on DU.
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. I'd be very careful what/where you buy.
Also, the prices are up quite a bit right now. Buying at the top is a mistake. I'd wait for them to drop before jumping in.



The company I've used before is CNI. Their prices are lower than Kitco, but you can't order online (only by phone).

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
81. I wasn't going to wait ...
but it was still almost too late.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. Be careful, I understand China was faking some silver coins and they have been
circulating in the US. Go to someone you trust, if you don't know much about buying silver.

I looked into it but could not find a dealer I trusted. I also could not find a place that would buy back the coins when I needed to liquidate. I don't trust on line dealers. I didn't want to end up with a large amount of my assets tied up in coins I couldn't sell.

Remember, cash is king during a depression.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I hope you keep looking.
There have to be trustworthy individuals in the business.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. buy from a broker.
Generally there are two types of coins.

1) Collectible coins. This may be a $100 coin w/ $1.25 worth of silver in it.
2) Bullion. This is certified by the mint (various govts) to have a set amount of metal (silver/gold/platnum) by weight.

Monex is one large broker. www.monex.com
Minimum order is 100 coins though so right now that would be around $1800-$2000. The price various depending on the value of silver (spot price) and the mint.
I own a couple hundred Silver Eagles and a few Gold Eagle which are the US Mints form of silver & gold bullion.

Now this assumes you want physical delivery. You want silver/gold you can hold in your hand.

Instead you could purchase a sliver ETF which is like a stock that goes up and down based on the value of the metal. ticker: SLV is one of the largest.
You can trade it like you would any other stock. 1 share = 1 oz of silver. They sell shares use the cash to buy and hold silver. The shares are then trading on NYSE.

If you really want to trade gold you will want a commodities/future account. You then can buy contracts for silver with substantial leverage.

So you got three options:
1) physical coins (stay away from collectible coins)
2) ETF via a stock account.
3) direct commodities via future account.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I want possession.
I've gotten a lot of good tips. Thanks to everyone.

What is considered a "collectible coin"? Is that where its value is much higher than metal content?
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Exactly.
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 12:55 PM by Statistical
The problem is the value has nothing to do w/ metal content so the value is more related to the rarity of the coin just like any other collectible (stamps, baseball cards, etc).

IMHO stick with bullion. They sell for slight premium over the spot metal price (due to the cost of minting) and they are issued by government mints. If silver is $18 per oz then likely you can find bullion by major central banks (US, Canadian, Australia, South Africa) for $19 per 1 oz coin.

Bullion will also more accurately reflect the change in spot metal prices. If silver rises 10% then the value of an American Silver Eagle will rise by about 10%.
Remember if you have a large amount of money don't put it all in one asset class. Diversified is always the best approach.

I have about 5% of my portfolio in physical coins. They are a good hedge against inflation and inflation is a wealth killer.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. I've heard from people here on DU that you don't need to
Have possession - but given that these seem to be the most fraudulent of times, I'd say possession is all important.

Then you have to start to figure out - how to hold something of great value and not have to worry.

If you are trying to store 50k to 500K worth of gold (or silver) ingots, where would you hold them? Should anyone know you are holding that, you'd have to worry about them being stolen.

And then, how would you know that the ingots were not just gold or silver plated?

The whole thing seems troublesome. It makes me realize that everyone that was into real estate several years ago was happy simply because as long as no one realized that it was a bubble, no one had to worry about their investment.

I mean, there have been isolated instances of someone stealing a building (Mike Royko wrote about an apartment building in Chicago that was simply hauled away,truck loads of brick at a time) but for the most part, you buy a house, you live in it or rent it out and it's there. With the appropriate fire and flood insurance.



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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. I Purchased Silver Rounds From Kitco (Canadian Company)
I went with Canadian silver maple leafs, because the premium over spot was lowest. I would have gone with "junk" from a local coin shop, but I would have had to pay sales tax. (I live in Vermont, and could have avoided sales tax by having the junk mailed to an address out of state, but I didn't have anyone handy to receive.) I suggest you focus on a low premium, because, if you sell them, you'll probably only get a price based on spot, not the premium you paid. One benefit of "sovereign rounds," or bullion coins issued by governments, is that they are easier to take across borders because they are considered a currency issued by the country, rather than a commodity, as an ingot would. In the case of the Canadian maple leafs, they have a face value of five dollars per ounce, while an ounce of silver is worth considerably more than that. So, if I want to take 200 Canadian maple leafs into Canada, I would declare $1,000 in currency. That dynamic really works with gold rounds. The Krugerand, for example, has a face value of $20/ounce. Go figure. : )
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. I've used Monex for years.
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 11:40 PM by BeHereNow
http://www.monex.com

PM me and I'll give the number of my broker there.
He's terrific- calls me with advice etc...
Wish I'd had some extra cash a few months ago
when he told me about the palladium future.
It's sky-rocketed since then.

On edit- You want PHYSICAL possession, NOTHING stored
in a bank or on paper.
Their delivery is completely anonymous and insured.

BHN
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OllieLotte Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. I bought a Canadian gold Maple Leaf this weekend at a coin shop.
It was an easy transaction.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Do you mind if I ask
what you paid for it? I've been thinking I want a little gold too :blush:
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OllieLotte Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
76. Sorry it took me so long to respond to you.
I paid $1095 for a 1 oz gold maple leaf. There is a huge difference between owning gold, owning something like GLD or owning gold mining stocks.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-16-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
82. In Texas.....
if you buy over $1K worth gold or silver, it is tax free.

In gold I get Kruger's, and small maple leafs. I bought my first Sovereigns and a French Rooster that I had wanted to get this week. I have been getting assorted sizes-always looking for a good price, Silver has been mainly in ingots, but I may buy some junk silver. I look for portability and trade potential.

Two years ago I found a good honest broker. It is a coin shop in the well to do section of town that has been in business since the 70's. They also sell bullion at a certain amount over spot. They are also very discrete.

They made an error on our first transaction in my favour. I made them aware and they have treated me very well ever since-including believing me when I said they had not given me the silver chain back on a piece that I they had worked on (they found it), They have given me spot on advice and have not steered me wrong. I am glad we met before all this craziness.

In uncertain times I sleep better at night with some of my money in gold and silver, and that is all I care about.
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mikeypooh Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-21-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Random info for you
Edited on Mon Sep-21-09 10:24 PM by mikeypooh
On the interweb there are two main companies to buy metal from. Apmex, and BullionDirect. (Tulving if you wanna buy a bunch) Seriously, I registered just to say this. If you're interested in PM's join Kitco. They also sell metals, as well as hosting a forum, which will tell you all you need to know if you join up. Stay away from Monex.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Wow. Thank you very much
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 10:22 AM by Why Syzygy
for registering just to comment! I've found a couple of sources I like, one local. He has a web presence, but no retail location, so there is no sales tax. I'll be making my first purchase in about 10 days!

What is a "PM"?
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
56. PM= Precious metal(s)
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
28. I'll say it once again
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 11:29 AM by SlowDownFast
KITCO SUCKS.

Monex, too.

Way overpriced.

I've been buying physical PM's for years.

See my above post (#27) for excellent recommendations.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Thanks for the reminder...
I had completely overlooked #27. -!-
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. You might wait for a significant pullback for purchases.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 12:20 PM by SlowDownFast
There is an "expected" dollar rally in the not-so-distant future (however short-lived it might be).

This drives PM's down, ie: when the dollars up, PM's are down and vice versa. We are overdue for a significant dollar rally soon, however short-lived. Might be a week, might be a month or more.

Usually best to scale in slowly (though shipping costs will get you) unless there is a serious drop in silver (12,13,15 bucks/oz - spot price), in which case you might want to make your larger purchases.

Personally, I'm a buyer in the $15/oz (spot price) or less range. Perhaps sub-$16's (scaling in little by little, of course).

Charts to pay attention to:

Spot silver:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html

DX (US dollar chart):
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX


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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks.
I'll do some research. Not going to wait very long, though. Shipping is definitely a consideration.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bullion.
I go with Northwest Territorial Mint, because it's local, for now. (they are moving to Nevada to avoid washington state business taxes)

http://www.nwtmint.com /

If you buy the bullion with the manufacturer's logo on it (Pan America Silver, or NWTMint or whatever) you are only paying for the base metal, and a markup for the process to purify and mint it into a reliable form. No collector value, which will evaporate when priorities change, in the scenario you are hedging against. (Collapse of the dollar)

You could buy Canadian Maple Leaf's (5$ silver 1oz coins) but you will likely pay more than you would for a silver round with the NWTMint logo instead. And when push comes to shove, they will be worth the same.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. NO! NO! NO!
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 03:22 PM by SlowDownFast
Horror stories abound concerning Northwest Territorial Mint.

They are considered a scourge by 98% of all goldbugs I know - and I know MANY. This goes back quite a few years.

Bottom line (mostly):

You will probably get your shipment - about 7-12 months after you place your order.

There are many stories of this. This may differ if you/they are "local", as you say - and can physically go there and purchase/take delivery on-the-spot.

I refer you here for testimonials from one of the biggest goldbug forums there is:

Poll: Northwest Territorial Mint Auburn, WA:
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=106087

Here is the complete sub-forum there for PM Dealer Feedback:
http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=63666...


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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. You know, I've heard that too for phone/online orders.
I'm local, so I walk in (minimum 50 oz, they claim, but I've walked out with much less).

Unfortunately they are moving, or have moved, so there won't be much more of that. I wouldn't order online from them either, I know people who had the exact problem you are describing.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. I've heard that a good rule of thumb
is to avoid any company that tries to portray itself as having an association, through name or otherwise, with the US Mint.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I truly
hope I am hedging for no reason, and that I can leave the collection to my son when I move on in 40 years or so.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. That's the thing.
It never loses it's intrinsic value. The one oz bars make great gifts. Got a couple nieces/nephews, about to turn 10 or so, and you want to impart some understanding of saving, or 'value'? Bingo. Perfect gift. Or even a stuffer for a gift of another type, like a wallet, or a small safe.

I gave a nephew one of those little sentry fireproof safes, for when he started doing lawn mowing jobs in the summer, to keep his records and cash in. Tossed in a 1oz bar of silver, just as something to have in it when he got it. He was delighted.


I wouldn't hoard a hundred pounds of the stuff, but having a little around for x,y,z purpose, isn't a bad idea. Sort of like a 3 day emergency bag. If you plan for the worst, it'll work for anything. So, around here, it's Mt. Rainier going off like the 4th of july, with the accompanying ash and earthquakes. Tailor that bag for that scenario, and if you have to head to another town with 10 minutes notice because your mom is in the hospital and might go now, or in a week, that bag will have you covered. Grab and go.

Silver is the same way. Low barrier to entry, since you can get an oz for 20$ or so (Damn 2 years ago it was around $11), it can be used for bartering, gifts, if you do hobby electronics, it's an excellent conductor, you can make jewelry with it, etc. Gold has a huge barrier to entry. $1000 for an ounce, and if all hell breaks loose, who's going to have a full ounce of gold worth of stuff you're going to want to trade for? Nobody. You'll waste a bunch of it. (Granted, gold is easier to melt for reducing the amount, than silver, but eh)
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Great ideas.
I have one silver Eagle that someone gave me for Christmas several years ago. He paid $10.
I had no idea the value would increase until about a year ago. :dunce: Glad I hung onto it.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. My Great grand father.....
was one of those citizens forced to sell their gold coins to the government for certificates. They were in his safety deposit box in the bank and he gave ever child, grand child, niece and nephew that graduated from high school a coin as his living legacy. They were seized by the government and he received the certificates. Now supposedly you could redeem those for the actual metal at some point in the future, but if you had the metal in hand-why would you want a certificate my Papa kept asking. They priced the gold at 20.22 an oz in paper money. Later Roosevelt raised the price to 35 an ounce and if you were caught holding it there was a 10,000 fine and 10 years in jail The government stole 58% of our families legacy-more if you count the fiat for gold. Grandpa educated all of us and it is a lesson we haven't forgotten. I hope you can learn from this too.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #53
61. Not quite true
There was an exemption to the gold confiscation rule, in that one could continue to hold gold coins of "collector value" (which would have included virtually every US coin issued), but there were limitations to the amount (up to $100 face value). But gold coins were bought and sold by dealers in the 1930s even after the confiscation order. The gold certificates were demonetized along with the gold coins, so I don't know what certificates you are referring to. No one ever had to pay the fine or go to jail for holding gold coins, and the only court case to come up about the confiscation order (Executive Order 6012) was thrown out (albeit on a technicality, but the government made no further effort to enforce that provision after that). There were some examples of gold coins being seized from private citizens, but for unrelated purposes.

Even though the confiscation order was technically in effect until December 31, 1974, gold coins were being bought and sold long before that. I bought my first gold coin in 1968, and bought several more in the meantime. Basically, in the 1960s one could buy any gold coin that was dated before 1960 (which is why there are so many Mexican gold coins dated 1959).

Although I usually don't take much stock in Wikipedia articles, the following one seems to jibe with articles that I have read in various numismatic publications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Bottom line...
Grandfather's gold was taken from his bank safety deposit box, he was given worthless fiat and he never forgave the government for it and made sure we remembered it. Maybe someone was overzealous at the bank or IRS took it and pocketed it, but Mom was raised by Grandpa and he told her about it, so I put more stock in his experience. He trusted the government until that happened. Never trusted them afterward.

Choose to believe what you will but our family will never get caught with our pants down again.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Well, my grandparents were around back then
Edited on Thu Oct-01-09 11:31 PM by Art_from_Ark
My grandmother, who was very interested in coin collecting and got me interested in collecting back in 1966, told me that after the confiscation order was issued, an agent came to her door asking if she or my grandfather had any gold coins, but no one opened up their safety deposit box, though (where a few gold coins were stored).

I think in your grandfather's case, it was probably an overzealous agent, or maybe a banker who didn't understand the law, or both. I have noticed that even today, Treasury agents aren't always on the same page regarding, for example, what coins can be brought into the US (such as was the case for South African gold coins back in the '80s), or how to declare the value of coins brought into the US (although the rule of thumb seems to be that US coins, at least, can be declared at face value, regardless of the numismatic value).

At any rate, times have changed since the '30s. The US Mint, for example, has been enthusiastically pushing its gold bullion and commemorative coin programs for 25+ years now, and there are a lot of powerful gold owners today who would vigorously fight any attempt to reinstate the gold confiscation order and would in all likelihood win if it ever reached that point.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. coin dealers
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
39. Or try a securites dealer and ask what funds they have in metals
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Old Hob Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. craig's list is a good place to start looking.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
41. Directly from the U.S. Mint. It is the cheapest way to go, by far.
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/ind...

If you're looking for rare coins, this is not the place, but for just plain silver, you won't find a better deal anywhere.


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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. They have suspended production on gold and silver.
What's up with that?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Wow. That's what you get when you don't pay attention for a few months.
I was buying bullion through the mint at the lowest premium over spot I could find, but I guess they put a stop to that. Can't put any pressure on "private enterprise", now can we?

I'd avoid the "coin dealers" as they are generally rip offs in my experience. It looks like if you want it now, you'll have to go through private parties.

Just like ammunition, it just looks like the crazies and the suckers have bought up the supply. Unless you have a pressing need, wait a while for production to catch up.


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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Check out the
recommendations in post #27.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. Take it at "face value" n/t
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Prove it n/t
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. So NOT true.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 12:51 PM by SlowDownFast
Even when they actually HAVE stock (which they don't) of non-numismatic bullion coins - ei: plain uncirculated gold/silver American Eagles (the cheapest non-collectable form) - their premiums are considerably higher than most reputable online dealers.

I'm a major goldbug and have been buying PM's a long time - not to mention rubbing elbows for years with others on some of biggest goldbug forums on the net and the bottom line is YOU ARE WRONG about buying directly from the US Mint being the cheapest.

on edit:

Also, the fact the US Mint is having trouble with supply of blanks and can't keep up with demand is "startling", to say the least...
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
60. You can't buy bullion coins directly from the US Mint
You can by proofs and other special collector coins, but the bullion business is farmed out to dealers who buy bullion coins in bulk and retail them out to collectors/investors.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
46. If you want silver in coin form cheap...
Edited on Sat Sep-26-09 06:06 PM by roamer65
buy common date commmemorative silver dollars from the 1980's. Many sell for near silver prices. Most coin dealers have them.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I don't think they are even 90% silver
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Rip-off alert n/t
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Yep.
I personally stay away from buying numismatic (collectable) coins. The premiums are far too high, and if TSHTF, premiums won't matter so much, methinks.\

Stay as close as you can to spot price is the rule when buying bullion.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #51
78. Very true. Learn the hobby before buying, IMHO.
Edited on Thu Oct-15-09 10:05 PM by roamer65
The premiums on many pre-1933 US gold coins are actually increasing right now, especially on old $20 gold. The shortage of bullion coins is driving people into the old US gold market in order to get the gold they want. Common date, mint state $20 gold prices are going through the roof.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. I think the poster was referring to commemorative silver dollars
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 12:57 AM by Art_from_Ark
that were issued in the 1980s by the US Mint-- particularly the Los Angeles Olympics silver dollars (1983-84), the Statue of Liberty silver dollar (1986), and the Constitution Bicentennial silver dollar (1987) which are beautiful 90% silver coins that don't carry much of a collector premium because so many of them were made and none were used as money.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #59
77. BINGO.
Edited on Thu Oct-15-09 09:58 PM by roamer65
I recently sold 113 of them at $12 a piece to buy an 1860 $20 gold. I bought them at $9 a piece :)

I hung onto 3 of the 1983 silver dollars because I do like the design.

A cheap way to buy gold is the 1986 Statue of Liberty $5 gold and the 1987 Constitution Bicentennial $5 gold. They can be bought at nearly spot gold prices and are 90% gold, just like pre-1933 US gold coins.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-23-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. You are correct
And in fact, I have picked up a few of the commemorative $5 pieces (minted to the exact same standards as 1838-1929 $5 gold pieces) for basically "melt" value. They are essentially bullion coins but with a historical connection.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
55. I wouldn't advise buying from a pawn shop
since the coins will likely be overpriced (and you may have to pay sales tax on them to boot). Also, never sell your coins to a pawn shop, since they pay rock bottom prices (since most of their customers don't know what the heck they're selling).
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
58. You might consider not buying at all
If you look at the consequences of precious metals mining - one of the worst and most irresponsible things that humanity has been involved in.

I'd rather invest in useful things - some people put aside a year's worth of food, or things like toilet paper and soap. You might also invest in the one thing that can't be taken from you - education. Skills are what they are, and they can reproduce themselves if you teach others. A sense of personal value helps many people when they worry about the future and hard times, moreso than a stash of precious metals is likely to do.

The knowledge of how to garden, to grow and store and cook fresh foods, is more valuable than anything that is mined and refined and hoarded at great cost.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
64. gold question

Why is the 1 oz high relief gold coin Twenty Dollars
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/ultrahigh /

and a 1 oz gold American Eagle is Fifty Dollars
http://www.monex.com/prods/gold_eagle.html
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. 24 ct. vs. 22 ct. nt
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Thank you, you're quick
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 04:02 PM by DemReadingDU
So the 24 ct high relief gold coin is worth twenty dollars
but the 22 ct gold eagle is worth fifty dollars

What's the difference? (besides the 30 dollars?)
Why wouldn't the purer 24 ct be worth more than the 22 ct (90% gold coin)?

edit. question answered below. thanks!

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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #65
74. Not true. With a gold coin you are buying the gold not the filler.
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 12:50 AM by Statistical
So
a 1 oz 24ct gold coin has EXACTLY 1 oz of pure gold in it.
a 1 oz 22ct gold coin has EXACTLY 1 oz of pure gold in it.

The 22ct coin will weight more because both coins weigh more than an oz.
They have 1 oz of gold plus a small amount (more in 22ct) of alloy however the amount of gold remains the same.

For example US Gold Eagle 1oz gold coin actually weights 1.091 oz.

It is 1 oz of 100.0000000000000000% gold and 0.091 oz of alloy. The alloyed coin is 22ct but it still has 1 oz of pure gold.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Thanks for the info, n/t
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. the high-relief coin is a reproduction
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 04:01 PM by CountAllVotes
of an old coin. Read the description -

>>Using the digital design and die-making process, the Saint-Gaudens sculpture in ultra high relief has been updated to reflect the year 2009, an additional four stars to represent the current 50 states, and the inscription In God We Trust, which was not on the 1907 version.

Note: These are the only changes - the year and the additional four stars on the coin and the inscription "In God We Trust".

*******

You are still getting one ounce of gold. In 1907 - $20.00 was one ounce. Today one ounce coins minted are marked $50.00 (although worth a lot more than $50.00 now).

Hope this helps.

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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. oooh, ok. Understand

Thanks!

:)

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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-15-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. Yup.. Reproduction of a 1907 pattern $20 gold coin.
Edited on Thu Oct-15-09 10:10 PM by roamer65
Except this one has the GD'd motto on it, unlike the 1907 pattern.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
69. In Australia, you can buy silver certificates from the Perth Mint
not a bad option. OTOH, the AUD has become a lot more expensive for US dollar holders as of late.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-11-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
71. Try the Silver ETF: SLV. Or for broader coverage go with a precious metals ETF. see link:
http://etf.stock-encyclopedia.com/category/precious-met...

NOte the nice thing about ETFs is that you can find ETFs that go Long or Short. So you can make money going in either direction.

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