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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:33 PM
Original message
Obama: Another $750 Billion Needed for Banks
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 04:34 PM by girl gone mad
via Calculated Risk

The following article from the NY Times is based on an exclusive interview Friday with President Obama: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban. Here are some excerpts:

Mr. Obama indicated that the end was not in sight when it came to the economic crisis and suggested that he expected it could take another $750 billion to address the problem of weak and failing financial institutions beyond the $700 billion already approved.

The budget plan he released last month included a placeholder estimate of $250 billion for additional bank bailouts an amount that represents the projected long-term cost to taxpayers of a $750 billion infusion into the financial sector and in the interview Mr. Obama indicated that those figures were what he was likely to seek from Congress.

We have no reason to revise that estimate, he said.


And on the economy:

Mr. Obama urged Americans to be prudent in their personal financial decisions, but not to hunker down so much that it would further slow the recovery.

What I dont think people should do is suddenly stuff money in their mattresses and pull back completely from spending, he said.

Still, he avoided guessing when the situation might begin to turn around. Our belief and expectation is that we will get all the pillars in place for recovery this year, he said. How long it will take before recovery actually translates into stronger job markets and so forth is going to depend on a whole range of factors.


More...
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jeez
How could any sane person support another mammoth giveaway before seeing a full and fair accounting of the last one?
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. How many times can we float that extra $750B idea?
This would be the third one (bank bailout1, stimulus, now bank bailout2). Never mind the debt zooming
to $12T or so, the real question is "who's got it that will lend it to us?" and "can we just print it instead?".

All of this is ON TOP of some $2T shoved out the Fed's butt at the banks, mostly on the QT.

And, so far, the banks haven't shown any desire to start standard lending practices.

Nationalize the banks, and do another $700B in infrastructure. With at least ONE being a complete
conversion to wind/solar for the US.

Current single panel price for a 200Watt solar panel is $1000.

50 million rooftops (homes and business) at 20 panels each would cost $1T at retail price, probably half
that for the "quantity buy" or $500B. Add another $3000 per install (or $150B) and you employ hundreds
of thousands, and potentially generate 200 Gigawatts peak, more than enough to meet any decent demand.
Even assuming only about 30 percent of peak on any given day, it's 480 GWhrs per day.

Even better, no real improvements to the grid are needed AND the $850B is paid back by rate payers over
20 years at something like an average of $72 a month. A potential 4KW per roof.

Probably would directly employ 150,000 or so for a period of 10 years.

Screw the bank bailouts.

Of course, this is just solar, better would be to have a mix of solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, etc.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bill Maher is right...
We're getting what really is a $2 trillion dollar fix requested in $750 billion increments so it won't seem so shocking. For only 3 low payments of $19.95 ($750 billion) you get a solvent banking system!.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's 100,250,626,567 payments of $19.95 each - n/t
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I have some better pricing data for your solar panels.
You can get a volume price amorphous solar panels for about $2.75 a watt. You can get volume prices on mono and poly crystalline solar panels for about $3.50 a watt. Amorphous panels are only about half as efficient per area used, but if your not worried about power density they are more cost effective.

That doesn't include inverters or installation though, and the United States probably couldn't build that many solar panels if it wanted do to to silicon supply.

$750 billion would be very well spent on wind though. It is cheap and has about a 30% capacity loading compared to 15% for solar.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. In the fine print of my rant, you'll see that I was using
$2.50/watt for volume pricing of mono crystalline solar panels.

Of course, when one places an order for 1,000,000,000 panels (1 Billion), one should expect to get
an even better price break. Even better would be to take all of those auto plants and other rust belt
idle plants (and the employees) and start a WPA style "make our own" solar panels. I'm pretty sure that
like liberty ships before them, our workers could make those 1 Billion panels over 10 years for a lot
less than $500 per panel. Probably a *lot* less. while employing another 50,000 workers to do so.

This would be in addition to the 150,000 workers employed to install, at $3000 per installation, over
10 years these 1 Billion panels on 50,000,000 rooftops. I think a installation team of 3 workers could
do 1 install in two days, including the metal frames and standoffs, wiring, inverters and regulators, etc.
But that's an assumption. Anyone who has experience in installing 20 200watt panels on their own roof
should jump in an educate me.

Again, just using solar as an example.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. How about a modern day WPA? F*CK the banks
If they haven't gotten their shit together now -- ain't gonna happen.

Where's the bail out for the UNEMPLOYED?
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AlexWierbinski Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. It appears that the Economy is Plunging through it's Natural Bottom
The market has just hit its natural bottom. The 6800 to 7200 range will ultimatly be known as the long-term bottom of this market crash. But that does not mean that we are out of the woods yet. Not by a long ways.

The Dow will hit a short-term low in the 5000 range. It will drop to the 5's, kick around between high 5's to the low 7's for a few months, likely through next year, then come up to its long-term low in the 7's for the next seven or eight years.

The reason for this is that Bush, Obama, and the Democrat Congress wasted trillions of our dollars bailing out their biggest bribers, the Wall Street Bankers.

If Bush, Obama & Congress would have had any sense or honesty, they would have spent the bailout money making the middle and lower class incomes' effective, rather than adding to debt through banking bailouts. This would have limited the credit and economic crisis.

If these fools would have cut all fed taxes on earners below $100,000 when the mortgage securities imploded, the resulting jump in real middle-class income would have put enough real purchasing power into the economy to establish a bottom on the housing plunge.

This real stimulus would have established an economic bottom point for the market to rest on. This bottom point would have been based on increasing the real earning power of the middle-class, rather than spending trillions to create an illisory increase in credit.

By now this real stimulus would have already established a market value for mortgage securities, though very low, which would have nonetheless stopped the continuing collaspe of mortgage securities, which would then have given us real "clarity" as to how much credit was really avaiable in the markets.

Instead, these fools poured at least 8 Trillion into the failed institutions that created this vast rip-off. If this 8 Trillion were put into the pockets of the middle-class, the resulting real stimulus would have brought the Dow to a soft landing at the 6800-7200 level, with an established housing market and price, which would make know the value of mortgage securities, while simultanously limiting the catastrophic economic consequences we are experiencing now.

We have now gone below 6800 on the Dow without knowledge of the value of mortgage securities. The housing market continues to plunge. Credit, well hell, the whole banking system has been the walking dead since last October. Last year's biggest global banks are now penny stocks. The worse part of this could have been avoided, if our poliitcians would not have given away our money to their biggest bribers.

The mistake of putting the first "stimulus" into the banks was nearly matched by the mistake of the second "stimulus," which did no more than partially bail out the States, and big Construction companies.

This error, of putting all of our money into very few hands, is what started these housing and financial bubbles in the first place. If the bailouts had been direct to the middle-class, the resulting economic activity would support local and state tax bases. Funding the collectors of taxes without stimulating the incomes of taxpayers is a very limited and a very short-term bandaid for a very serious problem.

The first failed bailouts allowed the housing-credit crisis to slip into the broader economy in the first place. The second bailout has done little more than perpetuate a failed system for a few more hours or days.

Every penny of both these bailouts should have gone into the pockets of our middle-class. Only their purchasing power, not more credit, could have put a bottom on the housing slide and propped up spending to allow the economy to unwind slowly, rather than the screeching halt we are seeing today.

We are now seeing the severe consequences of our failed system and our failed bailouts in the snowballing unemployment rate and the massive plunge in consumption.

Because the politicians bailed out their biggest bribers, in order of contribution, they failed to put the money into the real economy before it began to crash as hard as the markets.

This cupidity will be spoken of by historians as a catastrophic mistake that drove the markets further down than the situation required, doubled the duration of the crisis, and considerably increased the damage to our international credibility and influence.

Now we have neither credit nor earning power. We have a vast sum of new debt to be funded at the height of a global economic crisis.

As I mentioned much earlier, the bailout money to the top will have two effects. First, it will not stem the banking meltdown, nor will it restore credit, or stimulate the housing market.

Second, as I said previously, when this vast amount of debt is put onto the global debt markets, it will only be funded at a very low cost with a very high interest rate, if at all.

This indicates that we are in for what could turn out to be a fierce bout of hyperinflation, especially in oil nations, nations dependent on food imports, and to a lesser degree across the whold global economy.

But don't worry, big screen color tv's, washer & dryers, and suv's will still be dirt cheap. And nobody will be capable of buying them, even at rock bottom prices.

I'm seeing this situation, "stagflation," developing by June, and presenting serious threats to domestic, and especially to global stability, by the end of the year at the latest.

All of these crisis have one source: The Death of American Democracy. If there is a better set of indicators demanding citizens to rise up and storm and reform their democracy, I have not seen them.

Criminal Wars. Crimes against humanity and an assorted array of War Crimes. Complete domestic political corruption by and for wealth. Complete domestic corruption of our most fundamental political principals.

What more do you people need to see before you wake up and throw off, and out the bastards who have stolen your money, your rights, and your country?

The "Kickers"
My economic analysis is linear. Although I am incorporating consideration of the instabilities and failures American policies are engendering across their diplomatic, economic, and military applications across the global topography, there are factors that cannot be predicted.

If a regional war breaks out centered in Iraq or Pakistan, China implodes socially or economically, or other random global meltdowns are triggered in Nigeria, Kenya, or Indonesia, there are significant random factors that can totally alter the already unstable trajectory of our country's political economy. (USA)

There is also the possibility of a complete economic collapse in the US, or the complete failure of one of our imperial wars/dictatorships.

Our situation is so unstable that "Kickers" can instantly destabilize the whole global balance of political and economic power. Don't be surprised if the nature of the situation instantly changes. I won't be.

To see a fully linked version of this comment, go to:
http://nextrevolution.org/node/63
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. If this is true,
he is an idiot.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Or bought and paid for too.
:shrug:

Which I doubt, partly because all the Republicans are pissed right now. And by 'pissed' I don't mean the British euphemism for 'drunk'.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. The theft of money is so transparent...
Oh yea, Obama said he would have a transparent goverment.

Recovery my ass. Bailout is bullshit and is simply theft on a grand scale.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. He does that and there will be a tax revolt.
I guarantee it.
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