Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

America Has No Means to Recover from a Depression

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU
 
Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:43 PM
Original message
America Has No Means to Recover from a Depression
Sorry kids - last time the republicans destroyed the economy
we we the worlds largest creditor Nation,
the largest importer of raw materials,
the largest exporter of finished goods and
the largest manufacturer.

This time - we ain't got some.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

America Has No Means to Recover from a Depression
http://www.economyincrisis.org/articles/show/2170

Speaking in front of members of Congress on Tuesday, economist Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland, said the job loss experienced in November "was much worse than was expected ... The threat of a widespread depression is now real and present."

Many economic observers have justifiably stated that the U.S. is in the midst of the greatest recession facing the nation since the Great Depression. On Monday, the National Bureau of Economic Research finally acknowledged what most of Americans have known for some time: that the U.S. is officially in a deep and painful recession. Few, if any, however, will dare to call the current downturn a Depression. Actually, the department responsible for categorizing our economic condition, NEBR, refuses to use the term, although most Americans, judging by what they see and what is happening to them, realize we are truly entering a depression.

"Just as the NBER does not define the term depression or identify depressions, there is no formal NBER definition or dating of the Great Depression," the bureau's website says.

It seems that some experts are finally starting to recognize the perilous situation that this country faces.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. When the nation does recover, hopefully the canned food some folks are hoarding will still be good
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 05:47 PM by depakid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. With all due respect....
that hoarded food may have long since been turned into s___! Ms Bigmack
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. But "Megatrends" John Naisbitt predicted we could go selling information to each
other forever. No need to make anything else again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Just as the people on the Money Channel keep saying that you
Can stil make a killing pushing paper around.

They are hoping it is so, but it ain't
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. just another opinion from another economist
oh well everyone is entitled to their opinion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Been saying that since Reagan offshored steel and tool and die.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mdavies013 Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. We need to start buying local and supporting American businesses.

Sometimes it is harder said than done since so much is made overseas, however if we start trending that way...some companies will start to react. In addition, if we truely move towards energy independence...we can start manufacturing wind turbines, etc...locally.

It is bad...but we can't lose all hope.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Okay....I've been buying up a little local bank
that I've always sorta liked. At $20/share the progress was slow going, but at $2 a share recently, I might get there.

Your turn.

What are you buying local and how is it helping manufacture wind turbines?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. I read somewhere
that Obama is talking about putting the unemployed to work fixing roads and infrastructures, etc., etc. As soon as I read that, what popped into my brain immediately was FDR and the Works Projects Administration.

Scary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Unless we do something
There is some danger that we will just have to pay out the money in Unemployment benefits anyway.

There is no question the infrastructure is in need of repair, so there is less chance the money will be spent on useless projects, I guess.

Other than that, the WPA was successful, wasn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. It was...
Though it didn't end the Depression. World War II did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. The economy of the future
Morici has a point, but it suffers from the same inaccuracies that underlie most pronouncements by economists: trying to make scientific predictions with fuzzy data and models that are qualitative, not quantitative.

With the wild gyrations in the price of energy over the last year, it should be obvious that the economy of the future will have to return to what has worked for thousands of years of human civilization: self-sufficiency. That means eating locally grown food, wearing locally made clothing, building with local materials -- you know, what people on the Italian peninsula have done for centuries while governments and kings and emperors and popes and caesars came and went. To locally produced food, clothing and shelter, I would also add locally produced energy. In olden days, firewood was pretty much the only locally produced energy, but with modern technology there is now the possibility of solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal in addition to biomass (which itself is more encompassing than just "firewood").

In the economy of the future, one will actually be able to see a tag on clothing that says "made in USA". And that tag will not just be from a sweatshop in the Northern Mariana Islands that technically qualifies as a US territory.

In the economy of the future, floor tile will not be imported from China because it is cheaper, even counting in the cost of freight for a 10,000 mile ocean voyage.

In the economy of the future, "waste not, want not" will be relearned and storage units will abound, vacant and empty as people learn to use what they have instead of shop for more stuff they want.

People who want to come out ahead when this economic cycle is over will learn what the survivalists and minimalists have been saying all along: grow your own food (also keeps the Chinese melamine out of your food supply), make your own clothes, and make your own entertainment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. IT'S NOT "A" DEPRESSION, IT'S THE BUSH DEPRESSION! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phred42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's the Second Republican Great Depression
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh fer crying out loud ....
"Just as the NBER does not define the term depression or identify depressions...."

This is form Monty Python, right????

Gotta be...
or Black Adder...

"the department responsible for categorizing our economic condition, NEBR,..."
REFUSES TO USE THE WORD DEPRESSION

therefore, we cannot be in one !!!!!!

Ever.
Alice in Fucking Wonderland.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. So what word are we gonna all use?? An expansion right?
The economy is now in its fifteenth straight month of glorious Joyous expansion!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. The word which you reference does not exist in Newspeak

"Record Expansion" without the "Doubleplusgood" modifier is an appropriate use.

Your noncompliance with the Good Language Directive has been noted, remediation has been scheduled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. too true
repukes have finally accomplished what the British (twice), Jefferson Davis, the Kaiser, Hitler and Stalin couldn't.

they've killed America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. America = A Third World Country
Bush literally destroyed America with deregulation. He will be regarded as the worst President in history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I don't know....
Here is a definition

Third World Country (Developing Nation) - Unlike an industrial nation where certain criteria are met, these are nations which struggle to compete because of a lack of one or more of the following: health, education, employment, resources, money, and other various factors. Many are also hampered by corrupt governments who have long ago given up on looking after their own people and use funds to fatten their own wallets while their citizens are starving in the streets. Some are hampered by war or out of control epidemics such as AIDS. These factors make it next to impossible for them to compete in any real way with the industrialized nations.



WHat makes you think the US has become "Third World" because of one bad Administration?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I think that slightly altering the definition you are offering shows that we
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:31 PM by truedelphi
Are indeed a third world nation.

We are no longer an industrialized nation - in fact we are now even making our military equipment in CHina - as unbelievable as that is.

We are post industrial, having sent our textiles to places like Guatemala and our automobile factories to Mexico.

Much of everything else comes to us from China.

Our schools have not really taught anyone anything for the last ten years. (Good for me when I have my tutoring shingle hanging up) And now, most schools are laying staff off.

our government is quite corrupt - we have a One Party system known as the Money Party. If the corporations don't like you, you haven't a chance of becoming President - that is why it was McCain vs Obama rather than Ron Paul vs Kucinich (nevermind that Paul and Kucinich understand the ponzie scheme the banks are running and that McCain and Obama are mostly clueless.) Note the arrest of the Illinois Governor today for his trying to buy the Senator opening in Illinois. Also Our Fed agencies like the FDA and EPA work mostly for the good of Corporate America.

Note also that we don't have a free press, but a Corporate Media. Further indication of masssive corruption is how the insurance regulaters overlooked the Credit Default Swap situation - the CDS's were just insurance by another name - and re-naming an instrument something else should not make the government agencies look the other way, but the financial industries probably paid off many people to get this to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. well said, and sadly true
we have become a third world nation. We should be so proud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I think that definition fits the USA pretty well, actually
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:49 PM by GliderGuider
"... nations which struggle to compete because of a lack of one or more of the following:

health,
(You understand that the US health care system is a horrific laughingstock to most industrialized nations, right?)

education,
(In comparison to other industrialized nations your education system (beyond a few elite universities) is almost as far behind the curve as your health care system, and dropping further every year)

employment,
(Falling like a rock at the moment, with lousy unemployment protection for laid-off workers)

resources,
(You produce only a third of the oil you need...)

money,
(That's what started this little fuss, isn't it?)
and other various factors.

Many are also hampered by corrupt governments who have long ago given up on looking after their own people and use funds to fatten their own wallets while their citizens are starving in the streets.
(You're right in line with everything up to the last clause in that sentence. Let's see what the next 6 months bring)

Some are hampered by war
(Iraq, Afghanistan?)

or out of control epidemics such as AIDS.
(Oh good, you dodged one bullet...)

These factors make it next to impossible for them to compete in any real way with the industrialized nations.
(The key to this sentence is, "In any real way". You have so little manufacturing left, the only way you compete is through predatory finance. Kind of like Spain at the end of their empire...)

No, you guys look more third world to me every day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Diabetes is reaching epidemic proportions..
as well as other obesity related health issues.

I wouldn't say we've completely dodged that bullet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. In 1930 we were the worlds Saudi Arabia
The petroleum reserves at that time had minimal production costs.

Today, we import 67% of our fix, and the domestic reserves remaining have very high production costs.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Oct 20th 2014, 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Economy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC