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Crewleader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:54 PM
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The Coming Great Depression
This Week's Theme: The Coming Great Depression

by charles hugh smith

November 24, 2008



I have been asked to address the coming Great Depression which is slowly but surely enveloping the globe. The irony of doing so in Thanksgiving week is not lost on me, and I want to preface my commentaries by saying that I do not tackle the subject cavelierly. There will be great suffering, on many levels, and the entire point of analysing the situation is to lay the groundwork for alleviating the suffering by getting to the root causes of the financial, social and environmental disasters which are unfolding globally.

Let's start with the view of the U.S. from orbit. The first thing you notice from actual orbit (as opposed to "the long view" metaphor) at night is all the bright lights. In the daytime, you would see thousands of contrails from all the commercial airliners in the air.

The one key fact about all this energy useage is that about half comes from overseas; it is purchased from other nations and shipped great distances. This energy comes in the form of liquid petroleum, a highly energetic and easily transportable form of energy of which the "cheap and easy to get" kinds are now in permanent decline.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. WE, as a Nation, need to think more series w re to futuristics...but it seems, we are unable to
with any degree of clarity...

Sad and pathetic.....
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. americans who save their money and live on their incomes are punished by our society..
interest rates on savings are diving, penalizing the savers. costs and fees of the savings institutions take a further hunk out of the savings. at least prices are declining. that's the only good aspect of it all.

Msongs
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. the ones who are probably going to be severely punished are the ones using plastic
The domino effect from charging everything, signing two year contracts for the latest phone gadgets, one each per family member at several hundred a pop -- those folks are going to see the bottom drop out very quickly if they lose their jobs, or default on mortgages.

300 Billion PLUS to bail out Citigroup? Do you think Citigroup will do ANYTHING to aid their customers?

I don't think we've seen the worst of it yet.
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Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I read it as $45 billion, not $300 billion...
$25 billion already invested
$20 billion investment for which we get preferred shares

Part of the agreement is that CITI will adjust troubled mortgages for its borrowers.
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Winnipegosis Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. Whatever...
When and if there is a worldwide recession, America, and my country of Canada, will fare much better than the rest of the world.

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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't like his anti- healthcare rant
He argues that surgery is expensive, therefor if surgery is a right, then the govt will be on the hook for huge amounts of money. This assumes that EVERYONE will get major surgery EVERY year. A silly suggestion at best.

This guy needs to realize that the only survival of this empire is if it makes itself a confederation of people with a common goal, and the common health of each other is a good place to start.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. It also assumes that health care prices will hold up..
in the declining economy, which I don't think they will.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. And he doesn't explain how other countries are able to provide the "right" to
health care while not imploding. Seems to me when something is easily obtained and is given to everyone, the price goes down.

If you get insurance companies out of the health care business the price of health care will decrease because you no longer have to pay the salaries of insurance corporations CEOs and top management or the corporations required profits and overhead.

The defining characteristic of a Republicon Great Depression is falling prices. Why would health care be any different?



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Pluvious Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. We need to start calling it the Bush Depression - n/t
n/t
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes. nt
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Morpheal Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. NO LACK OF WORK TO REBUILD AMERICA AND THE WORLD - BUT WILL BARACK OBAMA TAKE THE LEAD ?
No necessity for a deep recession or a depression to happen.

You have to look at it from the angle of what does the world need done.
What can you see out there that needs effort, labour and materials, put into it, to meet human needs
and to better the human condtion.

1). An end to slums and ghettos.

See point 2 for the reason why those didn't matter. They were expected largely to be blown away.

2). Repair and replace outdated and deteriorating infrastructure.

A lot of that was ignored during the Cold War and that habit dies hard. Roads were built suitable for
moving military hardware. I won't tell you which ones, but they double as interstates. Airports were built
with blast shields of piled up rocks to shield nuclear bombers, eg. Scranton. Mountains were moved to
house missiles, as in Pennsylvania. I saw one of them being put in in the 1970s. The list goes on.... and on.
However, in a MAD, mutually assured destruction world, pushed past the brink, and intent on proving one
side of the dialectic right or the other, each at any cost, you don't repair and you don't build what you
don't need for the war. After all it will all be destroyed in the coming apocalypse.

Many roads, bridges, dams, levees, etc. all are badly in need of rebuilding
So are many buildings.
You don't repair and replace old power plants properly if you expect an apocalypse.

In a post apocalyptic world there is too much to do. Far too much.
Everyone could be working overtime for the next twenty years and not get it all done.

3). Good quality healthcare accessible and affordable for all.

4). Improvements in energy production. New technologies, R&D and their application to actual use.

5). End to smokestack pollution. We have the technology and know how.

6). Improved food production. Remember that food crisis ?
Again we have the technology and the ability.
I recently recommended this as one of China's new top priorities before they get started suddenly into a
new massive apocalyptic war, to fuel the American economy with warbucks, and to remove China from competition.
Famine and social instability due to massive social upheaval can do that to a nation. When they are led into it.
Sure, war in, with, or involving, China would save the Big 3, but we cannot let that happen.

7). Space is the final frontier. We have the fundamental principle for a new type of engine as revolutionary as
the discovery of radiation long before the atomic bomb. We have had it for years. Plasma physics was the
old hope for building that engine, in a remote and esoteric lab at NASA, but it isn't the answer. Now we
have something new, related in part to the Cosmology Group, U of Waterloo, publications on 5D spacetime.
Something that began discussion mid 1990s on sci.physics on the Usenet. Some people went off that did
some of the math, in preparation for building the engine. We can get to the distant stars. In this century.
However we need a new technology. A new form of propulsion so revolutionary nothing will ever be the
same on Earth or in the heavens ever again. We are at the turning point and we must move forward.

8). We see the mess on Wall Street, in financial institutions, in government departments. Can you imagine
how many investigators, fact finders, enforcement officials, auditors are needed to clean that up ?

It would take an incredible effort simply to look into Citigroup and rebuild that institution, if it can be rebuilt,
into a fully ethical, moral, effective and solvent company. When they find out what went wrong there there will
be hell to pay as in every such instance. It has all run amuck and there need be no accountants out of work.
There is too much to do.

9) Conservation, preservation, of environment and heritage, have both suffered under previous regimes.
Too much to do. That includes all areas, natural and man made.

10) I have long suggested building more and more modern fire fighting equipment for quick deployment to
wildfire, forest fire, and other similarly tragic diasters. In a global warming world even one acre of forest
burned to carbon makes a difference. Still no luck getting that equipment built and rapid deployment
organized, for sharing of those costly resources between Canada, USA and perhaps further afield. There
is a real need and it would consume a huge number of man hours to build it.

11). I could go on about everything that needs fixing, replacing, is unsafe, is poorly designed, is neglected,
but you fill in the blanks as to what needs to be done.....

12). Education needs a complete overhaul nationwide. I wrote two articles on how and why recently.
Massive task and the technology would employ a company as big as microsoft for a long time.


Trouble is that "free enterprise" has not been up to it.

They don't want the job.

They don't know how or don't want to figure out how to do the job.

So it is up to the government, and it will mean real economic growth rather than recession when the
government really chooses to do what is needed and step into it. No longer relying on the private
sector which has completely neglected and denied its responsibilities in that regard. At best it is
unwilling and someone else has to do it.

It is up to the government.

If it means nationalizing resources, companies, that are needed for the task the so be it.
If private sector can come to some cooperative arrangements to get it done, the so be it.

But real growth means you don't need to worry about anything other than government coming up
with enough money. Real growth means you can print some if you need to. It won't destroy
the world, but if it is used right, for good purpose, under the watchful eye of a good and
responsible, a truly accountable, government, then don't worry. Then you can print some to
get the job done. For the good of the people. For the good of America. As an example to the world.

Is President Elect Barack Obama up to the challenge ?

It's bigger than he imagined it is.

Let's see if he is.


Cheers.

Robert Morpheal

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