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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 03:28 PM
Original message
How do we convince the rich to vote for Democrats?
Bush enjoyed a solid advantage among the voters with a top 10% income earners in 2000, and Gore enjoyed a solid advantage among the bottom 20% income earners. I have thought about ways to convince the rich to vote for Democrats, but I haven't though of many. The rich will know that Bush's tax cuts will probably have to be repealed for all of the necessary new programs, and the very rich's taxes will likely rise dramatically. What arguments can we give them besides the fairness argument, the argument that it is only fair to raise the taxes on them?
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why should we?????
*
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. We need to get the bottom 20% out in droves.
I couldn't care less if the rich favor the Dems, and it won't help the Dems win the election. The numbers are at the bottom of the income scale, and traditional Democratic policies favored the working class.

I'm curious; why should we get the rich to vote Dem?
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GBD4 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't know about you . . .
. . . but I want to see Dubya CRUSHED in the November election. There is no reason why we should write off ANY part of the electorate to the Republicans. A bare win over Dubya in due part to an above average turnout by the base is great, but would it not be better to win over other groups, too, and win a powerful mandate? We should not write off the rich, we should not write off the rural, we should not write off the South. Rich people do care about education, the environment, choice, etc. With a strong message, there is no reason to overwhelmingly lose any demographic group to Dubya. We think he's vulnerable, then we ought to believe we can beat him at the highest levels.

btw - ever hear of Limousine Liberals??? rich Democrats DO exist!
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. True, but...
most limousine liberals are extraordinarily rich, like the hollywood actors. I am talking about people who make 300k a year, they are not rich compared to these people.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Just tell them
They aren't rich enough to be Republicans.

If the wealthy vote Republican, and the poor vote Democrat, the decline in the stock market has made many who were rich enough in 2000 to vote Republican, poor enough now to not make that mistake again.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. True - we don't need the rich vote
there are more poor, middle to upper middle class voters. We need people to Vote!!
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cpa Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Economic Arguements To Rich
First, I would point out that the Bush Administration has the largest deficits and highest amount of national debt in our nation's history. Deficits eventually have a negative effect on the economy because money that could be lent to businesses and individuals must be lent to the U. S. government so the government can pay its debts. The U. S. government's debts include U. S. Savings Bonds, U. S. Treasury bills and Notes and other debt instruments owned by U. S. citizens and companies. Since the wealthy own the majority of assets, they will be the ones who are effected the most by these deficits. Deficits throughout history have always had a long-term negative impact; things won't be different this time.
I have some wealthy clients. Those clients favored paying down the debt rather than this last tax cut. These clients also don't want future generations to be responsible for liabilities incurred by the current generation. Considering the long-term negative impact of debt, almost any financial planner will tell you that it is a good idea to first pay off debt. The only time debt is a good idea is if you can borrow money at a 5.0% interest rate and invest the borrowed money in an investment or business that yields a higher return. That is risky strategy. Besides, money borrowed for tax cuts is not money being invested in a business or investment.
Bottom line, Republican economics are just bad. Trickle-down economics through tax cuts was tried in the 1980s and all it did was create massive deficits. It is no different in the 2000s.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. The most affluent have generally benefitted the most by living in this
country and should consider it a priviledge, no a duty, to pay at least a fair share of the tax burden. Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, among others, suggest the poorest 20% among us pay about the same percentage of their income in taxes at all levels of government, that is local, state, and federal, as do the most affluent 20% among us (and payroll taxes are taxes on which income taxes are paid, a double-whammy), and that data were gathered before the tax cuts passed during this Administration took effect (and those tax cuts disproportionately, no almost exclusively, benefit the most affluent). What will result is a much further concentration of wealth among a relatively few, a rapidly shrinking middle class, and a burgeoning underclass who do not/can not make a decent living, have no medical insurance, and all too often, turn to crime, thereby making the streets more perilous for us all, including the most affluent. But of course the most affluent have the resources to build high walls around their property and hire as many private guards as they want/need to protect their property and person. This is the kind of society a highly regressive tax system spawns, a society not unlike so many in third-world, banana-type republics: this is the type of society those who now control all the levers of power in government want and intend to have and countless millions of sheeple, most of whom are/will be worse off, support them with an incredible fanaticism and fatalism. Most of the most affluent know fully what they are up to and what is coming down and ocassionally one will speak up. What we need is for all America to speak up.
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. i see your points...
Edited on Sat Jul-19-03 04:38 PM by SyracuseDemocrat
but do you really think that the rich will consider it a privilege to pay a lot in taxes? That's like saying, "I would really like you to cut off my arm, and I'd consider it a privilege". The rich don't feel that way now, and they most likely never will.
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Look, here is the way I see it...
Edited on Sat Jul-19-03 05:21 PM by SyracuseDemocrat
The rich are acting in their own self-interest when they vote Republican. They voted for Bush because of his promised tax cut, and they knew that they would pocket more money under a Bush administration than under a Gore administration. How is that different from an African-American voting for Gore because of Gore's promises to crack down on racial profiling, or a gay man voting for Gore because of Gore's promises to try and pass ENDA and hate crimes legislation? I mean, really, are these situations any different from each other? My point is that we all act in our own self-interest, and we will vote for the candidate that gives us the most benefits.
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Terazzo Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. This is the best post I've seen today.
For some reason, we don't allow wealthy people to act in their own self-interest without labelling them as 'greedy'. Yet they are no different in that respect than any group
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks for the kind words.
Edited on Sat Jul-19-03 05:18 PM by SyracuseDemocrat
People vilify the rich too often here on DU. Anyone who earns over a certain income level, maybe even $50k, is labeled as "greedy" and must have either inherited the money or gotten it in some kind of illegitimate way. They couldn't possibly have earned it, could they? :eyes:
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. lets be honest..
We are ALL acting in our self interest based on how we vote. We are interested in defending our philosphy. We are interested in seeing that people are taken care of. If they aren't, we feel bad. We should stand up proudly for a strong, progressive government that helps its people...even if the tax rate for a few must be raised--The greatest good for the greatest number. That is what is important. If it means a tax hike for people making over 100k, so be it.
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. easy for you to say...
but you totally ignored what i said. How can you defame the rich republicans when they are acting in their own self-interests just like most democrats?
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jafap Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. honestly, I think that is one of the most wicked lies
They say: see, everyone is selfish, I am no worse than anyone else. In reality that is the worst propensity of all of us and it should not be excused or condoned. People, such as say, firemen, act against their self interest in order to help other people. That is the best of humanity.
People act against their own self interest all the time for the greater good of the community. Do you think it was in my self-interest to oppose the Iraq war? I am too old to be drafted, and do not have any relations or close friends who are in the military.
Not only that, but the entire self-interest thing seems irrational to me at some point. Imagine if I was Tom Cruise, a Syracuse Democrat, and made $20 million last year, and I paid $8 million in taxes. The Repugs will save me $2 million in taxes. Is it rational to even care? What sane person is going to be dis-satisfied with $12 million? It's like a person eating their sixth steak when there is a starving person in the next room. I cannot see that as the self-interest of anybody who has a soul.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I'll start organizing the candlelight midnight march.......
for all those hard-done by well off people trampled on by a cruel, heartless, and mean-spirited society.

Donations of disposable coffee cups, sweaters, and petit fours would be much appreciated.


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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. or you could organize one now
for the not so well-off people.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. so they sell out the best interests of America for MONEY
if that is not true WHORING at its worst, I don't know what it is.
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Boreas Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Damn right they're different.
Voting for someone who you expect will help keep you in the upper income tax brackets is a bit different than voting for someone you think will try to protect you and your family's physical safety from nearly legal aggression or assault.

An informed electorate will make the correct decision most of the time, or else what were those radical colonial revolutionaries thinking of?

The problem is to get the information to the electorate. Often people don't want to be informed, do they? We have to figure out how to do this. It may be the most important political action we take.

Cast your bread, (seeds,) upon the waters for you shall gather it some future day.

Eh?
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. The "rich" and Democrats
Edited on Thu Jul-24-03 08:09 AM by ikojo
Normally I am the last one to come to the defense of the "rich" trust me on that one! That being said, I have a friend who was born into a very wealthy family (so rich that she doesn't have to work). She and her entire family are Dems. While she is not as far to the left as I am she is very liberal and recognizes that the wealthy enjoy more tax breaks than less well situated folks.

She even calls for increased taxes on the wealthy. Perhaps she knows it will never happen or maybe she really means it, I don't know.

So, the way to reach people like my friend is to appeal to their humanity and concern for others. Illustrate that if your employees are doing well it's good for the entire society. It's not good for a society to be as divided along class lines as that found in the US and that the rich cannot hide behind gated communities forever.



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sirshack Donating Member (680 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-03 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. Stop demonizing them....
Don't assume that they all inherited daddy's money.

Don't assume that they got their money by breaking the backs of others.

One of the most disheartening things for me about the Left is the demoniziation of money. I do ok salary-wise, but not all that great. But I get by, and I manage to have a little left over each month to put into some mutual funds I have. Hopefully, these mutul funds will be worth enough that I can afford a nice house, maybe not worry so much about my bills, heck maybe even have enough to retire a year or two earlier. But frankly, it'll probably take a while before my accounts reach that level. Still, I don't want to have to defend that. I'm not in line for any big inheritance, I'm kind of on my own on this...and it discourages me that someone will come along 30 years down the road (probably the time required to amass a substantial sum...I only put in $20 a month or so...more when I can afford it) and decide I don't deserve it for some reason and it should all get snatched up in taxes. I'd love to be able to leave my kids a nice sum to maybe help with a house down payment or put towards my grandkids futures...but then I read proposals for a 100% inheritance tax....very dishearteneing.
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sadiesmom Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-03 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. The RICH! You think it was the RICH!
Try my piss poor relatives that don't even watch TV news, God forbitd they pick up a newspaper or read the internet for news (instead of downloading music). No these relatives get their news from hate radio.

We must take back the air waves. We must get it into people's heads that the 'news' they hear is propaganda.

I believe in infiltrating non-news threads with reality. Right now, I am posting at AI2 threads - specifically Clay Aiken threads - talking about 'news' as propaganda. Believe me there are people calling themselves republicans who are starting to listen to this message. It helps that one of the judges admitted to managing the news.

The point of the above paragraph is to find something that affects people (no matter how minor) and show how propaganda and news reporting adversly affected their desired outcome. You would really be surprised how you can pry open minds a little crack, enough so that some real information can get in.
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phgnome Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Stand out
by:
1. being genuinely honest
2. explain the reasons why for your proposed policy
3. proposing to revive the space race, extend it to human space exploration research, to stimulate the economy
4. work with other countries so that we leave no one behind in the space race
5. restructure the market to be more efficiency-oriented
6. invest in R+D to produce new markets and innovations
7. use the space research initiative to stop the economic need for war

I will vote for whoever proposes a good solution to make human space travel available to the common working-class person. We have no time for war or destruction -- I'd like to see an international initiative for human space travel -- to look for other planets we can live on and to figure a way to be able to get all of us there.
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German-Lefty Donating Member (568 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-03 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. top 10% solidly Republican?
When people think they're going to be millionares, they vote like millionares.
When people think they're going to be poor, they vote like the poor.

I've sometimes wondered if the whole buisness cycle or at least this last round can be attributed to this. People thought the internet boom ect. will make them rich so they voted in a bunch of stupid Republicans that deregulated everything and guess what the economy crashed. Now they'll be voting for "compassionate conservatives", oh wait there's no such thing, well then Democrats.

Most of the top 10% didn't benifit from the Bush crime family. The old nationalism benifited the rich. The new one benifits a few cronies and some guys with swiss bank accounts working behind the scenes from the Bahamas with no stake in our country.
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