Kerry grasps underdog role and vows to carry fight

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Senator John F. Kerry is casting himself as an underdog in the fight of his political life as he seeks to jump-start his presidential campaign today with a major speech outlining the first 100 days of a Kerry presidency. He will promise health care legislation as his first bill to Congress, new limits on government lobbying, and a rebuke of President Bush's military doctrine of preemptive war.

The Kerry campaign also began an expensive onslaught of anti-Bush television advertising in Iowa Monday and New Hampshire yesterday, which have the first Democratic nominating contests on Jan. 19 and 27, respectively. He is also planning a series of 24-hour campaign trips in the two states and a burst of hiring to energize his political operations, and announcements of several new political endorsements.

<snip>

"I'm in a tough political fight now," Kerry says in the speech, to be delivered this morning to supporters in Concord, N.H. "I hope that when you someday face a moment like this, when the going gets tough, when what you believe in is at stake, you'll decide that you don't run; you fight back stronger than ever. That's what I'm determined to do."

This new political rhetoric has rich echoes in recent Democratic political history: scandal-scarred Bill Clinton as the "comeback kid" after his strong second-place finish in the New Hampshire primary in 1992, and Vice President Al Gore's campaign slogan, "stay and fight," as he sought to defeat Bill Bradley for the 2000 Democratic nomination.

<snip>

To "flip" those Dean voters and win over others, Kerry plans to use the TV ads, speeches, and campaign surrogates to tout his own electability against Bush -- and hammer away at Dean's. Some of the surrogates are expected to come from a new national campaign committee, also to be announced today; the campaign cochairs include Senators Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Dianne Feinstein of California and Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/11/21/kerry_grasps_underdog_role_and_vows_to_carry_fight

[helleborient]

1. Bill Clinton's opponents and Bill Bradley had nothing like...

The national support and campaign finance that Howard Dean has.

Good luck Sen. Kerry!

[blm]

5. They didn't have opposing camps spreading the "corrupt" meme, either.

Amazing how so many young people are being told that Kerry is a "corrupt Washington insider" and Deanies are even bragging about their success at spreading that meme.

No shame. Just like Bushies spreading the "brain-washed traitor" meme against John McCain.

>>>>>>>
Northwind (616 posts) Thu Nov-13-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Issues are irrelevant in a political campign.

Only the perception matters. Kerry is a Bush enabler and corrupt Washington insider. In case you had not noticed, that is the current great sin in politics. Being an insider, "typical politician." By 2008, it may be something else, but right now that is THE worst thing a candidate can be seen as. Kerry is seen as such, and therefore his campaign is dead. Finito. Belly up. Pushing up daises. Out to pasture. Passed on. The Kerry campaign's inability to recognize this trend and adapt to it only shows that he would be equally rigid and uncreative as President, which is why he will never BE President.

get it?

>>>>>>

NO SHAME?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

6. The tag was "Washington insider"

The "corrupt" part just came along with it, because that is what many people think about Washington insiders. Kerry might not have been tagged with this if he hadn't voted for the IWR. I understand his argument about it, but most people don't look that deeply or spend the time to listen to him -- in my opinion he has been deeply deeply hurt in the Dem base by that vote. Fair or not, that vote made him just another Washington politician in the eyes of many voters.

[blm]

10. And the FACT that Kerry exposed more govt. corruption than ANY lawmaker in

modern history is pushed aside so he can be perceived as a "corrupt Washington insider" himself?

That is disgusting and the fact that so many in the Dean camp are lying to YOUNG people who have no idea about how BCCI and IranContra are linked to what is happening today, (and Sen. John Kerry's role in exposing the truly corrupt) just for political gain for Dean is even more disgusting.

Just like Bushies spreading the meme that John McCain was a "brainwashed traitor"....you have no shame.

[LuminousX]

13. so many in the Dean camp are lying

How many? What is critical mass? How many 'bad apples' make the entire bushel bad?

[helleborient]

19. Ummm...links? evidence?

Support for the hyperbole of exposing more corruption than any modern lawmaker?

[blm]

25. HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Almost EVERYTHING we know about the BFEE today was exposed by the investigations led by John Kerry on BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning.

Have you never read Howard Zinn or Robert Parry? Have you never heard of Ollie North? Caspar Weinberger? Adnan Khashoggi? Noriega?

[helleborient]

32. I'm fully aware of all that and was an adult when it happened

And I have stated my age on here before, no need to respond to your online screaming.

[blm]

40. Then if you are aware of it, how could you discount it

and its importance in exposing government corruption? Did you just not remember it was John Kerry who discovered the crimes and led those investigations?

[helleborient]

49. I discount your hyperbole...

That John Kerry is Superman who has done more than ANY other legislator in the modern era.

He is a great Senator, but not a good Presidential candidate.

[blm]

57. Why change my words? I said he was the lawmaker who exposed more

government corruption than any other in modern history. If you can name one other who matches the scale of BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning linked to illegal wars in Centrall America, well...do it.

Why are you more disturbed by my characterization than the disgusting meme by Deanies that Kerry is corrupt?

[helleborient]

58. Maybe because I think buying elections IS corrupt...

Hmm...I hear an echo...I think I said that somewhere else.

[blm]

60. But the meme spread is that Kerry is corrupt

and spread LONG before he opted out of the public financing.

[helleborient]

62. I didn't get it...so I can't respond;...

And I'm sure you'll scream in my face about it here as well...so I'm just waiting.

Young (thanks for the compliment!), uninformed, and guilty of character assassination...that's me!!!

[Parche]

84. Kerry

Kerry is more presidential than Dean will ever be

[RevolutionStartsNow]

21. I AGREE with you

Kerry has been a strong opponent to govt. corruption and has done many excellent things in his career to expose wrongdoing. Especially during Iran Contra, I remember that well.

My point was that he may have lost ALL of his credibility with the IWR vote. I agree that might not be fair, but that is the perception of people who only read the headlines: Dems who voted for IWR = bad.

I don't think this is the whole problem -- Kerry obviously got a slow start and wasn't prepared for Dean's surge, also he isn't particularly energizing or charimsatic, but I think the IWR vote bumped him to the bottom of many people's list.

[LuminousX]

24. IWR vote

essentially forced Kerry to start way behind other candidates instead of equal footing. He campaigned at first as if he had equal footing and it has taken him this long to realize that he has been losing.

[blm]

26. Deanies spreading the meme to young people that he's corrupt

is disgusting.

[LuminousX]

27. Kerryistas generalizing about Deanies is disturbing

How old are YOU?

[LuminousX]

28. ROFL... Won't SOMEONE think about the CHILDREN!?

[blm]

30. You think young voters SHOULD believe the worst about Kerry?

You think that's OK as a campaign tactic?

[unfrigginreal]

31. Huh?

You haven't been trying to get voters to think the worst about Dean? I think there's a word for that.

[LuminousX]

34. Show me where Dean's campaign is doing that

not where a few supporters in this closed environment of DU are doing it. Specifically where they are attempting to make YOUNG PEOPLE believe the worst about Kerry. That Kerry is the equivalent to a baby rapist or some other awful thing.

Kerry voted for IWR. That was a setback he never took into account which is why he is losing. Yes, losing - not lost. He went from frontrunner to 'underdog'. That is losing.

I believe it is every campaign's responsibility to highlight the weaknesses of the opposition. It is Kerry's job to point out Dean's foibles, and Dean's job to point out Kerry's. That is how this works.

Corrupting the young is the oldest character assassination method ever. It was used against Socrates and now it is being used against Dean. That is sad, because Dean is no Socrates, that is for sure. But if you want to put him in that pantheon, be my guest.

[helleborient]

41. What I tell young voters is he is a great Senator, but not a good

Presidential candidate. The end.

I really don't think that is telling anyone to believe "the worst" about Sen. Kerry.

It would be a bad thing to lose him from the Senate. But I don't believe he is the best presidential candidate and is every inch a politician like all of the other candidates.

[MrPeepers]

100. Just out of curiosity...

Why do you think he's a bad Presidential Candidate?

Peepers

[mitchum]

91. So, still "undecided" LX?

give me a freaking break

[Feanorcurufinwe]

92. LOL

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. Dean lost all credibility on the IWR when he claimed he voted against it

[LuminousX]

38. And his campaign is imploding because of it

You are so correct.

[dajabr]

45. Like Kerry beating Hillary in "that poll"

Or, will you cut him some slack for that?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

104. I won't have it, dajabr!

We must remain consistent. Therefore,

John Kerry lost all credibility when he claimed that he had polls showing him beating Hillary by 15 points.


I'm glad we can all agree on something here.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

48. Apparently he did not -- as for Kerry's credibility...

do you disagree that this has hurt him?

As Luminous said, he started out behind because of his vote, and has been unable to catch up. There are many many Dem voters -- the base -- who will never forgive that vote. Regardless of the many good things Kerry has done in the past, and regardless of any explanation Kerry may have for the vote itself.

[helleborient]

7. Buying elections (or attempting to buy elections) with personal money...

Is corrupt politics in my book.

[unfrigginreal]

8. Sort of reminds you of those people that call Dean...

a fraud and a liar, doesn't it?

[blm]

11. Kerry's record PROVES he's the exact opposite of corrupt.

Dean's record of governance PROVES he is not the populist he is now claiming to be.

[helleborient]

15. Really...my dictionary: corrupt = "questionable politcal morality" Buying

elections represents questionable political morality to me.

[unfrigginreal]

16. The charges are wrong against both Kerry and Dean

The fact that you can't see that is sad. So, don't come in here whining about your guy being painted with a false charge while you're perpetrating a false charge against another candidate. You reap what you sow.

[blm]

46. Name ONE false charge I made.

The bottom line to all my posts on Dean is that he is campaigning as a populist when he never governed as one, and in fact, his record shows he governed as a compromising centrist who often aligned with Republicans. He was praised by those at the CATO Institute for his governance.

Where's the false charge?

[helleborient]

50. Dean's been "annointed" by the media....

That's one and counting.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. If you are too unsophisiticated to see that, you might want to try

applying some critical thinking to the things you read.

[LuminousX]

53. Interesting

Instead of outlining a criteria and systematically proving, with that criteria, how Dean has been annointed, the choice was made to merely call anyone who doesn't see it 'unsophisticated.'

That is useful.

Anyone who thinks the media has annointed Dean is unsophisticated and really need to apply critical thinking skills to the things they read, watch, and hear.

[helleborient]

54. Because we're too damn stupid to understand...

Tune out Kerry's supporters and Sen. Kerry right there.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. Well perhaps you aren't unsophisticated, merely disingenuous.

But the fact is either way, someone saying the media has annointed Bush isn't a 'charge' -- it's an opinion. If you disagree, say so, but calling it a 'false charge' is ridiculous.

[helleborient]

63. Yep, I'm mean, nasty, fat, and ugly, too (n/t)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

64. If you say so.

[helleborient]

66. A Kerry supporter would have said something just as useful here

Sooner or later...so I thought I would just get there first.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. Hey, at least you are putting words in your own mouth for once.

[MrPeepers]

101. Might I suggest

that you not lump all Kerry supporters together, as Luminous is so vehemently opposed to all Dean supporters being lumped together?

Peepers

[blm]

59. Try Lexis-Nexis.

And noticing the favorable treatment of Dean by thugs like Frank Luntz, does not add up to a "lie" or a false charge.

[helleborient]

65. Kerry supporters are certainly adept, too, though of digging up...

Negative media reports about Dean.

Are these somehow outside of the annointing process? Do their graves have to be outside the churchyard?

[helleborient]

51. And calling Dean "dictatortot."

How intelligent and what a grand contribution to discussion.

Name-calling and profanity...yep, it continues.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. Your charge is absolutely false.

I searched DU for the last year. This is the only comment that uses the term 'dictatortot':

"We said there was an expiration date on Dean's teflon from the media.

So, the more it looks like they've accomplished their initial mission, they'll take more swipes at Dean to strip that teflon off and reapply it to the dictatortot."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=735261&mesg_id=735354&page=

Which clearly refers to Bush. Is it impossible for you to make your point without spreading falsehoods?

[helleborient]

67. Sorry I missed the "amazing" clarity...and I'm guilty! guilty! GUILTY!!!

Since Bush is mentioned nowhere in that post...and only Dean is mentioned by name.

Yes, I'm guilty! guilty! guilty!

I spread horrible falsehoods!

I'm glad you feel so much better!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

69. What else is new?

When caught in a falsehood, you claim you didn't understand what you read.



Again.

[helleborient]

70. The tone of the posts make it clear you genuinely don't like me...

And I think it's obvious to everyone else...just keep repeating it.

It does seem to make you feel better.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

73. I'm pointing out what you said. Sorry if it makes you look bad.

[helleborient]

77. No, it only points out your flagrant disregard for DU Rules...

This is nothing about discussing the message...it is all about discussing me.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

88. So why not hit 'Alert' then?

:shrug:

[helleborient]

89. Back to ignore...

You can deliberately mislead and try to destroy the participation of others.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

90. If true, thank you.

[helleborient]

71. And from your own rhetoric, it's obvious I'm a serious threat...wow! (n/t)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

75. Spreading misinformation is definitely a threat that should be countered.

Yes.

[helleborient]

78. We won't talk about your doctored photos and misinformation, will we?(n/t)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

83. You mean this photo?

It was cropped from this photo:




But I think after all it really is more effective when you can see CMB laughing at Dean behind his back. I agree. Dean's self-important, childish, petty rage is laughable, and certainly not presidential.


By the way, do you understand the difference between 'cropping' a photo and 'doctoring' one? This is a doctored photo:

[helleborient]

86. Doctoring or cropping..both are misinformation...

Done to be intentionally misleading.

Disdain for all readers on DU.

By the way, I was meaning to ask the same of anyone who posts claims in text...

To take photos seriously, they should come with full information of where they were taken, when, and what was being said.

This is so sad...why don't you actually discuss your candidate's excellent new Real Deal policy that has been posted.

Oh, I forgot, personal destruction is your favorite mode here.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

87. Sorry but Dean looks like a jerk whether the photo is cropped or not.

It changes nothing.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to post it again though.

[blm]

61. "dictatortot" is Bush.

I've been calling him that for over a year.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

20. No, it reminds me more of people who call Dean an unelectable liberal.

Because that is a charge that isn't true.

[LuminousX]

12. Proof?

I'm not saying SOME Dean supporters are bragging about such a thing, I would just like some evidence to that fact to see how widespread it is. The words and actions of a handful of people should not be used to judge the whole.

[blm]

29. look...he's BRAGGING that the perception is set.....

and all of his next posts in that thread were defending it as a tactic and why it was OK to lie.

Northwind (616 posts) Thu Nov-13-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Issues are irrelevant in a political campign.

Only the perception matters. Kerry is a Bush enabler and corrupt Washington insider. In case you had not noticed, that is the current great sin in politics. Being an insider, "typical politician." By 2008, it may be something else, but right now that is THE worst thing a candidate can be seen as. Kerry is seen as such, and therefore his campaign is dead. Finito. Belly up. Pushing up daises. Out to pasture. Passed on. The Kerry campaign's inability to recognize this trend and adapt to it only shows that he would be equally rigid and uncreative as President, which is why he will never BE President.

get it?

[LuminousX]

35. Sure, one person... that's your proof?

If I find one person who is a Kerry supporter bragging about some negative aspect of Dean what does that really prove?

LOL... yes, let's focus on the minutia of one person posting in a highly partisan environment.

Won't someone think of the children?

[blm]

44. He's talking about the SUCCESS of that perception.

And this poster has been an active part of Dean's campaign if you recall.

[LuminousX]

47. Credibility

In case you had not noticed, that is the current great sin in politics. Being an insider, "typical politician."

He states this and you accept it without argument. There is no proof of that. If there was any shred of truth to it we would be seeing a mass exodus of incumbents. This person is full of it. I don't know who he is, or what role he plays in the Dean campaign if any, but I'm 99% positive that he is merely reacting to the closed, highly emotionally charged partisan environment that is DU.

Kerry is seen as such, and therefore his campaign is dead.

Do you agree that Kerry's campaign is dead? I feel that with his recent shake-ups he is back on the right track. Far from dead.

If I were you, I wouldn't put too much weight on what one person said. In fact, buying into this one post whole-hog is the type of 'throwing oneself in front of the bus' mentality that has been driving me nuts.

I swear to god that Dean could say "People who think the moon is made of cheese are morons" and Kerry supporters will come out of the woodwork declaring that Dean called Kerry a moron because Kerry once read a book that said the moon was made of cheese.

[helleborient]

82. Yes, the other day on NPR....

Dick Gephardt went on at length at how being an insider in Washington right now is a virtue...and Kerry seemed to echo that.

I was kind of floored, but they are running their own campaign.

[Northwind]

80. Active in the Dean campaign?

Not hardly. I went to one rally purely as a spectator, before I had decided to support Dean, and I gave money once. I do not even attend Meetups or post on the blog or volunteer with the campaign.

[blm]

102. Your previous posts gave a different impression.

I also notice alot of posts that allude to Kerry as part of the problems in Washington and even part of the BFEE. All these "perceptions" have been coming from Dean supporters for the whole past year.

[Northwind]

103. Sounds more like you made an incorrect assumption

Which surprises me not at all. You once took a thread I posted (the one referring to the Kerry campaign and Einstein's definition of insanity) as a direct attack on you personally. That thread was not even about Kerry personally OR politically, it was about how his campaign has been run. Kerry cannot at this point simply run on his resume, no matter how golden it seems. Unless Kerry's supporters (and Kerry himself) acknowledge the problems with his campaign, it won't get fixed, and it is doomed.

Sometimes a Dean supporter like me is merely analyzing a given campaign's strategy, not stumping for Dean. I am very much able to separate what I want to be happening from what is happening. Early on, before I found out about Dean, Kerry was my favorite in the race. Great record, meritorious military service coupled with activism afterwards. Long experience in getting things done in Washington. He seemed to be all plusses. The only negative I saw at all was his health problems early in the year, which may or may not have hurt him in the long run. What does it say that his campaign faltered so far? It says he ran a VERY bad campaign. His starting advantage should have all but guaranteed him getting the nomination. Now he looks only slightly more likely to get it than Lieberman, which is to say not very likely. You cannot lay Kerry's campaign troubles at Dean's door, no matter what you think about Dean.

The "impression' of Kerry as a part of the problem in Washington has NOT been coming from Dean supporters. The country as a whole is getting very tired of - and become very cynical towards - business as usual in politics. Anyone who is currently and has for some time been embedded in the system is suspect simply by association, regardless of their record. Is it fair? No, but then nothing ever is. Why do you think an actor with zero experience and no indication of any ability was given stewardship over the 5th largest economy in the world? And since I know you are thinking it, the answer is NOT "conservative controlled media conspiracy." People are reaching out towards anyone seen as being a "fresh face." Clark is doing well for much the same reason.

[dajabr]

2. "I'm in a tough political fight now"

Uh... John, you were in a tough political fight since January, you just didn't do anything about it.

Does this mean the long distance runner/extreme kayaker is ending the "pacing myself" phase of his campaign?

And with only 2 months to go - good strategery!

[unfrigginreal]

3. He's just been practicing up to this point.

He's going to get "real" now.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. This will be extremely tough

with Dean's favorables at over 70% in NH. It's not like they are supporting Dean until someone better comes along. Dean has held the lead for several months now in NH.

Kerry's big challenge will be to get the media behind him enough to report on his campaign without using the terms "struggling" "floundering" or "troubled." I'm a Dean supporter, but I hate how the media gets stuck on a theme and won't let go.

[LuminousX]

9. Woo Hoo

Again, why in hell wasn't he talking like this in the beginning? Well he was and then he got distracted by Dean. Has he altered his campaign soon enough to have an affect on Dean? We'll have to wait and see. I certainly don't want to see him out of the race just yet.

[dfong63]

14. it sounded good, up to this point:

To "flip" those Dean voters and win over others, Kerry plans to use the TV ads, speeches, and campaign surrogates to tout his own electability against Bush -- and hammer away at Dean's. Some of the surrogates are expected to come from a new national campaign committee, also to be announced today;

if Kerry wants to win, he has to shake the "desperate, floundering" image, and i think that means touting his own platform instead of continuing this obsession with Dean. the approach described above could easily backfire on Kerry, because it does sound desperate.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Since the dawn of politics, the underdog has criticized the frontrunner.

That will never change.

[LuminousX]

23. Which is why Dean criticized Kerry

That is accepted. But Kerry criticing Dean hasn't helped Kerry's campaign. I don't care what Kerry does, I'd just like to see him campaign at the level I know he is capable of.

In the end, he has to live with his decisions and if he believes this method is going to work, then he has my 100% support in doing it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. What a laughable, ridiculous comment.

You have no problem with Dean doing it, but Kerry doing it raises all sorts of questions for you. :eyes:

[helleborient]

36. Show us evidence it has helped Kerry?

The latest New Hampshire poll shows the continued slide for John Kerry.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. Why?

As I said, the underdog will always criticize the frontrunner. It's always been that way, and it always will be that way.

We'll find out on January 27 how well the criticism worked.

[helleborient]

42. And if it works, Sen. Kerry will lead us into a new golden era...

Of negative politics.

Thank you Sen. Kerry.

[LuminousX]

43. Have you even been reading my posts?

Where have I ever criticized Kerry for attacking Dean? The only thing I've ever said that even comes close to that is it hasn't been an effective strategy for Kerry and he may want to reconsider. That it may be better for him to be dismissive of Dean instead of confrontational with Dean. Sort of the heavyweight boxer saying he isn't going to get in the ring with an upstart because the upstart doesn't have enough experience to be worth the effort.

It is the job of campaigns to point out the flaws and foibles of the opposition.

[LuminousX]

18. Flip Dean Voters

He should care more about pulling in Gephardt, Edwards, Clark, and Lieberman voters. As evidenced by the latest New Hampsire poll, that is where his support is fleeing to.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. I think the Lieberman voters, excuse me, voter, will not be a big factor.

[Northwind]

72. Notes on real life for Kerry supporters

In real life, the underdog usually stays UNDER.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

74. Didn't you say it was a good policy to lie to the voters?

That was you that was arguing the case that there should be no moral considerations in politics, right?

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Northwind]

81. Pretty much

I won't rehash the subtleties here, since you are obviously incapable of grasping them, except to say that I said that there ARE no morals or right and wrong in a campaign, not that there SHOULD NOT be. I never addressed what should be, only what is.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

85. Thanks for clearing that up.

[killbotfactory]

79. He went from frontrunner to underdog

Didn't know you could do that...

Of course, Dean went from underdog to frontrunner so I guess it makes sense.

[polpilot]

93. Pro Iraqi War 30 year career politician Kerry seeks presidency!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean '04...The new Democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party

[Feanorcurufinwe]

94. Your message is false.

[Northwind]

95. Your denial

Is irrelevant.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

96. Irrelevant because of your stated opposition to truth in politics?

[Northwind]

98. Irrelevant

Because there is no truth in politics, which you obviously know, since you love spreading lies (not that there is anything wrong with that).

[polpilot]

99. 'Fear' ...fearful...'afraid'..

Dean'04...

[polpilot]

97. State the facts.

.