Dems for Death: How the Candidates Come Down on Capital Punishment

[Karmadillo]

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0345/mondo5.php

While seeking to sugarcoat their positions, six of the nine candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination are for the death penalty. Only Dennis Kucinich, Al Sharpton, and Carol Moseley Braun are in outright opposition. Here's the way each one comes down on the issue:

Wesley Clark has serious doubts about how it is being used. He would support mandatory review of all death penalty sentences. "I'll tell you, I'm uneasy about the death penalty," Clark said answering a question recently in Arkansas. "A government like the United States has the right to, in extraordinary cases, take the life of a criminal, but I don't like the way the death penalty has been applied in America," Clark said. "I think it's been applied in an unfair and discriminatory fashion and I think we need to go back and use modern technology and unpack all those cases on death row."

Howard Dean is in favor of capital punishment only for extreme and heinous crimes, "such as terrorism or the killing of police officers or young children." But it must be carried out with scrupulous fairness. "As President I would promptly instruct my Attorney General to evaluate the federal death penalty system, push for passage of the federal Innocence Protection Act to strengthen protections against unjust imposition of the death penalty, establish a Presidential Commission on the Administration of Capital Punishment to analyze the causes of wrongful convictions around the country, and recommend additional reforms at the federal and state level."

John Edwards: Discussing Eric Rudolph in a June interview, Edwards said, "But I do generally support the death penalty. I think there are some crimes that deserve the ultimate punishment. I do think we have work to do in making sure—I've worked on this in the Senate—in making sure that defendants in death penalty cases have strong and adequate representation of counsel, that they have access to testing, including DNA testing, and that we ensure the judicial process be fair. In fact, I've co-sponsored legislation in the Senate that would deal with all those issues...."

more...

[No More Shrub]

1. In my opinion,

killing anyone on purpose, including capital punisment, is a henious crime. Besides, what makes a police officer any better than me? And why would the reason behind the killing make a difference, the end result is still the same.

[Padraig18]

2. I oppose the death penalty under all circumstances.

Modern methods of capital punishment are relics of a bygone era and their boon companions would hve been the rack, the wheel, the stake, drawing-and-quartering, the ducking stool, the stone-press, etc. . This barbaric institution should be consigned to history's dustbin, because making it neat, or 'humane' doesn't make ir right!.

Good thing for my candidate that I am not a single-issue voter.

[No More Shrub]

3. Do you agreewith many of you candidates stance on issues,

or are you more concerned about his popularity? Does a candidates projected chance of winning make him or her a better choice for America?

Personally, I'd rather vote for who I think would do the best job, not who I think will win, I'm tired of choosing the democratic candidate because he is the lesser of two evils.

[Padraig18]

5. I believe in my candidate.

I agree with virtually all of his positions--- virtually all, but not 100%. My candidate 'speaks' for me on the issues that matter most to me, personally, and that is why I support him.

Dean in '04! :thumbsup:

[bread_and_roses]

6. You may be tired of it

I may be tired of it, but that's what we are going to end up doing...

[lastliberalintexas]

11. Lot of assumptions there

How do you know that Padraig doesn't support the majority of his candidate's positions (as he's already stated)?

BTW- there is NO candidate with whom I agree 100% of the time. You are lucky if you can say that there is one for you.

[No More Shrub]

13. No assumptions

I was just asking if he did support his candidates beliefs.

That said, I have seen a lot of posts where someone has said they like one candidate, but are voting for another because they believe he has a better chance of winning. I fail to see the logic in that at this stage of the game. Obviously, there will be a lot of people vating against Bush this election, why not vote for who you agree with, if everybody did that the candidate whos views acctually fit in with the peples oppinions would win, not the candidate the press says we agree with.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. Kerry used to be categorically against

now he is in favor of it against terrorists.
I personally disagree but this is evil Amerika after all.

[beyurslf]

7. The problem with saying we should ban

the death penalty is supporters than take the most heinous crimes in memory and ask why that person should live. In KS, the newest examples are the Carr brothers. They brutually murdered 4 people execution style, after robbing them and torturing them for hours. They attempted to kill all 5 there but one lived. She walked through the snow for a mile to get help, while beelding from the head.

Her testimony, along with tapes from the ATM machines they took their victims to, helped to convict both men. Their guilt is definite.

I also recall a case in NY from when I lived there. Two men robbed a Wendys after hours. One of the men had worked there. They took the video surveillance tapes and shot everyone in the head. Again, one person lived to call the police. I can't recall, but I think he ended up dying as well. However, they found the men, with the weapons, money, and tapes. They killed poor working young adults and a teenager. And, again, their guilt is definite.

How can any person think these men deserve to live? The truth is they don't. They deserve to die in a horrible, painful, and heinous way. Our Constitution, thankfully, doesn't allow torture or heinouos punishment so we know this is out of the question--but it is certainly what they deserve.

Please don't take this to mean I support the death penalty. I don't. But, I recognize that until and unless we can agree that men like this don't deserve to live, then we can never get beyond it.

Our arguement should be "Should we, in our desire to see horrible men like the Carrs get what they deserve, be willing to kill a possibly innocent person, trample on the rights of those who commit lesser crimes, or continue the disparity in money and race in death penalty cases?" And then keepin mind, we can't give the Carrs what they "deserve." They will be put to sleep sometime in the next 10 years. Hardly what they really deserve to have happen to them.

[democratreformed]

8. You make a very good point

about not being able to give them what they deserve.
The flip side to that is having them live off the taxpayers for
the rest of their lives.
Where is the middle ground?

[veganwitch]

9. it actually costs more money

to kill some one than to house them for their life.

the cost factor is a red herring.

please check the faq at moratorium project (google it)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. Kill to save money?

That's got to be the least convincing argument of all in favor of the death penalty.

[veganwitch]

14. for the record, im anti-death penalty

maybe you didnt mean to reply to my post.

what i was saying was the argument "i dont want my tax dollars going to keep a horrible criminal alive" is a red herring as it actually costs MORE money to sentence them to death then to keep them in jail.

[democratreformed]

16. I will look for it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a mess. I guess I haven't given enough thought to this issue.

[No More Shrub]

10. What?

So your saying that becacause there are some valid arguments for supporting the death penalty we should just roll over and say well never agree so you win?

Forgive me if I misunderstood your post, if that is the case, please clarify your stance.

[Padraig18]

15. I refuse to accept that there *are* any 'valid arguments' for it.

There are *no* 'valid' arguments in favor of the death penalty, IMO--none.

[No More Shrub]

17. Perhaps I should have said

that there are arguments people make which make sense in a way, there are people who would make the world a better place by dying.

My point is that just because there will never be a total agreement on the death penalty, we shouldn't just give up the fight.

[Padraig18]

19. Clarification appreciated. n/t

[veganwitch]

18. exactly...

for all the "severe" cases and people we know for certain did the crime there are thousands that are killed who are completely innocent and/or there because they are poor or a minority (where as if they were white or had the money for a non-public defender, they would have gotten a liter sentence or been able to appeal the ruling).

[helleborient]

29. Is that a Kerry flip? flop?

n/t

[blm]

34. To clarify. Kerry is against the death penalty in our system of justice.

His exception for terrorists is because terrorists put themselves onto the battlefield that THEY choose. They are acting as combatants who bring their battlefields with them.

[Padraig18]

35. I see.

One of those famous 'nuances' that's not a 'flip-flop', like Howard would make... :eyes:

[sandnsea]

41. He changed his position

And very clearly said so.

Unlike Dean, who can state completely opposite positions in just a few sentences, and then pretend he's a straight-shooter with a clear platform.

[Fleshdancer]

20. My biggest fear regarding this issue

is that people will assume that after banning capital punishment, suddenly our justice system will be fair.

From my perspective, it seems that we focus so much on capital punishment and whether is should exist or not, but we don't focus on issues like competent court-appointed attorneys or DA's who, because of their own bias, go after black offenders more harshly than white offenders, or arresting and punishing the wrong person in order to close the case for political gain.

[veganwitch]

21. it may not suddenly be fair

but it will be saving peoples lives!

the death penalty is the most drastic and obvious form of racism in our judicial sentence that has the most far-reaching and irreversible repurcussions.

there are innocent people dying! im not going to wait until the rest of the judicial system gets it's shit together

[Padraig18]

22. One positive thing that came from Gov. Ryan's blanket amnesty.

When former Gov. Ryan commuted all the sentences of IL death-row inmates, the new legislature (under Democratic control) actually took a fundamentally hard look at the whole 'fairness' issue as regards the criminal-justice system. The legislative result is mixed, but overall it represents a fundamental improvement as regards the rights of criminal defendants: 'confessions' must now be videotaped in ALL felonies, all 'capital case' public defenders must be experienced in defending capital cases, public defenders now have funds to hire private investigators, independently examine DNA and otrher forensic evidence, 'jailhouse informants' may not testify absent independent corrobaorative evidence, the death penalty may not be sought in any case where a jailhouse informant's testimony is the sole 'ex-parte' confession to the crime, etc., the prosecution must reveal to the defense any and all exculpatory evidence as soon as they become aware of its existence, etc. etc,. .

Opponents of capital punishment may not succeed any time soon is seeing the barbaric practice abolished, but they cand and do focus attention on the inequities inherent in today's criminal-justice system.

[helleborient]

30. I completely agree with you Padraig...

I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty regardless of the situation. I don't believe governments are given the moral right to engage in murder - on the battlefield or in prisons.

And I think what Howard Dean says above is very similar to the rhetoric that came from Gov. Ryan.

Regardless of anything else Ryan did, I do believe his moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois and sticking by it is one of the most courageous things any politician has done in this country in the past few years.

If Howard Dean is serious about looking into the system...more moratoriums could be on the way, because one of the real problems with the death penalty is that it's nearly impossible to administer it fairly - which is why Ryan, originally not an opponent of the death penalty, took his stance.

[Padraig18]

32. Yes!

I actually heard Ryan speak when he announced his commutations, and he said when it all 'hit home' for him was the day incontrovertible DNA evidence of a man's innocence was literally on his desk at the same time a draft of the man's death warrant was *also* on his desk. He said he sat there shaking so badly he couldn't even write for about 10 minutes, appaled at the realization that he could easily have sent an innocent man to his death with a stroke of a pen.

The people who support the death penalty need to wake up and realize that the only way a mistake will never be made is to abolish this Medievel (sp.) horror known as capital punishment.

[veganwitch]

38. i heard in the car...

it was very moving. ive also had the pleasure of listening to nancy prejean (dead man walking).


i just remember how ANGRY people were when they found out that their "killer" wasnt going to die. they talked about how ryan had destroyed their ablity to find closure. can you imagine going around with so much rage in your chest that the only way it can go away is by having some one die? for years and years waiting for that glorious day that you will get closure. try to truly believe the statement "the only way i can go on living is for you to die." that rage, that hatred, will drag you down and destroy you.

there are people who also think that way. osama bin laden had enough rage in his belly to kill 3000 people. and for all we know, that hasnt quelled his hunger. jesus was a victim of capital punishment. smoke on that one for a while.


sister prejean talked about how she counseled victims families and the death of the criminal did not bring closure. the said things like "now hes burning in hell for eternity." they still needed something to throw their emotions on and now that person was gone and the only solace they could find was that god was now throwing his hatred on them. the only real closure, she stated, was with forgiveness.

personally i believe in karma, you get back what you put out and i can find solace in that.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. This is largely a non-issue

The death penalty is very rarely used on the federal level. It is mostly applied on the state level.

[veganwitch]

24. actually i think it might be a federal issue

because the executions can take place out of state because of federal prison systems.

mcveigh did a crime in oklahoma and was executed in indiana (i watched the press conference that morning at the gym). believe me, it was big news for indiana and there were people who came to protest his execution.

i dont know actual law to back that up but interstate issues do fall under federal juridiction dont they?

[veganwitch]

27. we got precedent and law

i checked with someone who works/ed with the justice department

the eighth amendment barring cruel and unusual punishment, and excessive punishment in general. we got rid of it once, why not again.

also, the UN has charters against torture and the death penalty is considered torture. the only thing that stops the US from signing those charters is a hold up in the senate. (the US is the only western industrial nation that still executes people, which puts us in line with saudi arabia and china, and formerly iraq. woohoo!!!)

you get a president who will push the issue and hopefully swing the seats in the senate and BAM!! death penalty is GONE!

[GreenArrow]

25. Easy for those in favor to say it's a good thing

when they aren't the ones who have to inject the needle, pull the trap, turn on the power etc. I wonder if their "opinions" would change if they were the ones wearing a hood with eye holes cut into it, enforcing what they profess, instead of some poor, likely uneducated bastard.

Edwards, in particular, makes me sick. So you are willing to be the ultimate judge, eh Johnny Boy? Nice.

The death penalty is an abdication of responsiblity, a dearth of creativity, and an admission of failure, and really has no place in any society that identifies itself as "civilized."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. It's all true what you say- every last word

but this is America- not a civilized nation by any stretch.
BTW I notice Edwards polling well down south.

[veganwitch]

31. the death penalty is...

glorified revenge.

that is all.

all the arguments about money, crime deterence, closure are absolute rubbish.

[kwolf68]

36. BINGO

And it is perpetuated by our culture of violence and vengeance.

Under NO circumstances should our nation ever promote legalized murder.

How can we be a truly humane and civil society if the only way we can solve problems is to execute people or wage war?

[DrFunkenstein]

26. Cops And Kids Are The Most Emotional Cases

And least likely to be done without prejudice.

The POTUS decides who goes on the Supreme Court for many, many years. Between the 2nd amendment and the death penalty, I have some serious reservations here.

[dsc]

33. Oh and terrorism

is never clouded by emoiton or bigotry that is such bullshit.

[veganwitch]

37. terrorism is clouded by emotion and bigotry..

and when you KILL one, you make a martyr of them, and you create followers.

you do them and their cause a big favour.

[veganwitch]

39. the facts about the death penalty

chew on these for a while.

http://www.moratorium2000.org/facts/stats.lasso

The United States is the only western democracy that continues to use the death penalty. The U.S. stands with countries like China, Iran, Iraq, and Pakistan in its continued use of the death penalty. We are third only to China and the Democratic Republic of the Congo in total number of executions since 1998.


The United States leads the world in killing kids. The U.S. is one of only six countries since 1990 that have executed people for crimes they committed before the age of 18. We have executed more juvenile offenders than any other country. (wheres the death penalty for those who kill these children?)

and the big one, $$$$$$

The death penalty costs more than life in prison. Various state governments estimate that a single death penalty case from arrest to execution ranges from $1 million up to $7 million. Cases resulting in life imprisonment average around $500,000 each, including incarceration cost.

[genius]

40. Dennis and Sharpton are right. I'm glad to see Edwards is better than Dean

Dean's problem is that he is at war with due process. He has sort of a lock them up and execute them mentality. Edwards's experience as a trial attorney has clearly taught him that there have to be safeguards to protect against innocent people being executed. Of those who support the death penalty, Edwards has the approach with the most integrity.

[gottaB]

42. Carol the Barbarian's Opposition to the Death Penalty

Carol recently spoke at the annual meeting of the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty in Tennessee, where she predicted the end of the death penalty within twenty years.

For more sites with candidate's views see (1) Texas Moratorium, the best imo, and (2) a cheat sheet from deathpenaltyinfo.org.

Carol started campaigning with the slogan is "Peace, Prosperity and Progress," which for some people apparently is codespeak for the destruction of civilization as we know it. Her new slogan for the homestretch should be "Carol the Barbarian." What does that mean in real terms?

• Opposition to the death penalty
  
• Renouncing the doctrine of pre-emptive war
  
• Opposition to NCLB and the defunding of public schools
  
• The End of Lack of Health Care as We Know It
  
• Opposition ot the USA PATRIOT Act and other apparati of the new surveillance state
  
• Negotiating an end to that "fence business" and other conflicts in Israel/Palestine.
  
• Opposition to cutting down trees and putting more junk in the air, by whatever name
  
• Blocking the importation of goods made with slave labor

And so on. In other words, it's all negative from here on out. Help put an end to civilization as we know it: Vote for Carol the Barbarian.

In all seriousness, if you're troubled by the death penalty, as you should be, you ought to keep Carol Moseley Braun on your short list of candidates.