Clark and Dean tied Vs. Bush in new Newsweek Poll

[killbotfactory]

And Dean is slightly ahead of Clark among democrats.

If the next general election were held now with Bush as the Republican candidate and retired General Wesley Clark as the Democratic candidate, 43 percent would vote for or lean towards Clark, while 49 percent would vote for or lean towards Bush; an increase of two percentage points for Bush over Clark from the Newsweek poll of October 9-10, 2003, when 47 percent would vote for Bush and 43 percent for Clark, a statistical dead-heat. A matchup between Bush and former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean would see the same result: 49 to 43 percent, a narrower margin (six percent) than in the last Newsweek Poll when Bush led Dean by nine percent. By comparison, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry trails Bush by 42 v. 50 percent, Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman trails Bush by 43 v. 50 and Missouri Rep. Dick Gephardt trails Bush by 42 v. 51 percent, the poll shows.

Among Democrats and Democratic leaners, Dean has overtaken Clark as favorite for the party's presidential nomination for the first time since Clark entered the race, with 15 percent. Close behind, 12 percent favor Clark, while Kerry, Gephardt and the Rev. Al Sharpton are tied at eight percent each.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031025/nysa015_1.html

[mzmolly]

1. Wow.

The Dr. is doin great and making progress 'everywhere.' I'm amazed!

Go Dean!!!

[goobergunch]

2. National polls don't mean much

I said it when Clark led, and I'll say it when Dean leads.

[tridim]

5. Maybe true, but

Dean also leads or is at the top of all state primary polling AND he has by far the most money AND he has the most grassroots support AND he gets the most press. Dean is the frontrunner.

At some point national polling will matter. We just might have reached that point.

[Demobrat]

6. Considering what I said when Lieberman led

I have no right to even look at national polls.

[FubarFly]

9. I agree

And I also said it when Lieberman led. :scared: ;-)

[unfrigginreal]

10. A National poll doesn't mean much but trends from the same ...

National poll over time do have meaning.

[joeybee12]

3. True, national polls do fluctuate, however, the one thing you can get

from all these is that Dumbo is toast!

[Brucey]

4. No, nothing means much.

However, it is interesting that Clark came out with such high numbers. I believe it was because Americans are suckers for anyone called a General. Once people start to see him and hear him speak, they become aware that he is a human being and has positions on issues. Of course, having positions means you will lose supporters. So, his numbers will come down the more people get to know him. If only the Democrats had someone like Ahnold, someone that everyone liked and assumed was a Democrat, but who didn't need to say anything about any issues. He would win in a landslide.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. "when people hear Clark speak..."

"Once people start to see him and hear him speak, they become aware that he is a human being and has positions on issues..."

I'm counting on it. I think you are a little late talking about Clark's initial high numbers. These are no longer the initial high numbers. They already came down from the first splash perfect candidate hype. Sowers of seeds of doubt have been busily at work attempting to fill in the blanks on Clark before he can do so for himself. The Clark campaign is still young and it remains poised at very healthy numbers, consistently higher than anyone other than Dean by most calculations. Havaing positions on issues not only loses votes, it also gains votes. Heaven knows Dean has positions on issues.

The trick for Clark is to have more people actually see him and hear him speak. Clark is incredibly well spoken; thoughtful in his presentation but perfectly capable of throwing in some real zingers. There remains a lot of grass roots enthusiasm behind Clark's campaign, second only to Dean in scope. The same seems to be true for Clark's fund raising, second only to Dean when measured by dollars raised per week once his campaign began.

It's amazing the number of people who have not totally counted out Gep, Kerry, Lieberman, and/or Edwards who all languish lower in polls than Clark, yet somehow think Clark is in trouble near the top of them. It is no longer very early in the Election Cycle, but conversely, it is by no means late either. The New Hampshire primary is still over 3 months off for God's sake. Clark wil begin airing his ads in November, he is finally on the ground in NH at the restaurants and in the Town Hall meetings. That's the kind of stuff the other guys had been up to for almost a year. Dean and Kerry of course live next door, NH is a very small state and voters there get a lot of their media from neighboring state sources, they have seen a whole lot of the other New Englanders for years.

I guess it comes down to whether you believe increased direct exposure to voters will hurt or help the general. I suppose if you believe that Clark is all about being a General and not much else, the uniform will wear thin as he is fleshed out. I think the opposite is true. I think he starts out with a boost due to his military career true, but the most compelling case for Clark is made when you actually listen to what he has to say about the issues. That is the phase his campaign is now entering (having been slightly delayed due to a bout with laryngitis). There is plenty of time for him to build on his base and move upwards from here.

[DJcairo]

7. Where is Lieberman in the poll-these things are wacked

Gep, Kerry and Sharpton tied for 8%. Give me a break. Zogby had Kerry doing the best against Bush in a different national poll that came out just a few days ago. This is from Oct. 15-18:

The president would outpoll any of the current leading Democratic contenders if the election were held today. He would earn 46% of the vote against retired General Wesley Clark’s 37%; would beat former Vermont Governor Dr. Howard Dean, 47% - 39%; would poll 45% against Massachusetts Senator John Kerry’s 41%; would win over Missouri Congressman Richard Gephardt 47% - 38%, and would beat Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman, 46% - 38%.

www.zogby.com

[dkf]

8. Wow. What an incredible shift in mo towards Dean.

You could see it in several polls lately, starting in Arizona, moving to Michigan, then NY. The latest Iowa poll was slightly disappointing, but the NH Zogby poll was outrageous.

I think Clark's laryngitis really hurt him, as did his drop out of Iowa.

Dean has a gift for being in the right place and saying the right things at the right time (actually before the right time so he's ahead of the curve). I think he's blessed in that things just seem to fall in his favor. Even Clark's late entry helped take the heat off and showed in comparison some of Dean's assets, such as being able to take a hit well and being in charge of a good organization.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Just wondering who's doing the blessing!????

Things are never quite as they seem....or
If it seems too easy, there may be a reason

[unfrigginreal]

12. LOL

Didn't hear you singing that tune a few weeks ago when the news media annointed Clark the front runner and gave him 24/7 coverage. Do you think maybe that front runner status came "too easy" and things weren't "quite as they seemed"?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thentro]

14. agree but calm down!

"Check out the big picture like intelligent people do"
Gak! How about just take a look?? I was a Dean supporter until I took a look at how similar they actually are and where the mud was coming from. But jez, dont make fun of people.

I agree that it is beyond interesting that newsmax.com hands out the info that is later picked up by leftist web pages (Its the same crud people, same stuff!!) And that all of it is unfounded dribble that should not earn press time. But neither did that whole thing with monica so what can I do...

[FrenchieCat]

15. Sigh.....OK, I've calmed down....

Just don't want to give Bush 4 more years. That is a nightmare that I don't want to see! I like Dean enough.....but not to the point where I will sacrifice my children's future.

I took a deep breath......Ok...Ok.....sigh....!

[indigo32]

17. Hey Frenchie

I'm gonna try and say this real nice....
None of us want Bush for another 4 years. You and a few others in here who use this same reasoning don't have any corner on the "I don't want Bush" market. We just happen to legitimately disagree on how to beat him.

[Andromeda]

16. If this trend keeps up it's going to be hard to choose...

I like both these guys, Dean and Clark.

Providing this kind of momentum keeps up for both candidates, it's going to be a real tight race.

When the winner of the Democratic primary actually starts campaigning against Bush watch those polls numbers change.