observation about dean supporters

[veganwitch]

*puts on flame retardant suit, oxygen tank, armour, taps coat of arms (for all you magic folk)*

these are from situations ive seen in real life, in person. i went to a rally in dc where dennis and nader and local dc people were speaking.

and a meeting with kerry speaking at a bar in portsmouth NH.

and dean folk were there.

at the rally, they had their own table (next to ours no less.)

and the kerry event, they were practically blocking the sidewalk, had a big banner, signs on sticks etc.




ive had to run a gauntlet like that before, when i went to planned parenthood to get an abortion.

of cousre ive never been to a dean event but i dont know if anyone has gone with signs and lit for a different candidate. neutral events, or were all candidates are there are fine. bring your signs lit etc. but when a candidate is there and people are going to listen to a specific person, whether they are supporters or still questioning, being out there just comes accross as asshole-ish. i dont think it is helping your cause.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

1. I agree

When a candidate is having their own event, a rally, etc., I think it's rude for another candidate to try and distract from that.

On the other hand, as you said, when there is a public event that some or all candidates are appearing at, then I have no problem with supporters of one of those candidates making a big show of it, giant signs, etc. As long as they are polite to the other candidates' supporters and the people attending, this is fair game. In your examples above, I would have no problem with Dean people being at the DC rally, but I would have a problem with them blocking the way at the Kerry speaking event.

I can't speak for all Dean supporters but I know that the campaign and the "core supporters" don't advocate disrupting another candidate's event. In fact recently someone posted on the Blog about a Clark rally somewhere, and how they should all show up with their own signs, and a bunch of people jumped on this guy and told him that it would be rude to get in the way of Clark's rally.

[WillyBrandt]

2. I heard about that

I heard from Clark supporters that they were worried that Dean supporters would be rallying right outside where Clark was on his recent trip to Miami, and they passed along e-mail from Dean supporters to that end.

But it turned out to be just fine.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. Dean and Clark

both have a ton of supporters, and some of them are going to behave badly -- as we've seen on this forum -- but I don't think it's fair to characterize "Dean supporters" or "Clark supporters" or any candidate's supporters by the actions of a few. If I had to generalize, the most common trait I've seen among Dean supporters is enthusiasm.

[WillyBrandt]

6. I think that's right

Most folks are just folks. You'll have weirdos in both camps, but I think most are just trying to push up their candidate, not push the other ones down.

[JohnKleeb]

8. We have weirdos in all camps and good people

Same with religion :D.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

61. I do not see what is wrong with tabling at an event

It was not a Kucinich event...it was an event that featured many different speakers. Not everyone who went was a dedicated Kucinich supporter, and there were probably a lot of undecideds to reach. I would have helped with tabling had I not gone home for fall break.

If you want to talk about obnoxious, talk about the Greens in Vermont holding that huge sign right behind Dean at his declaration speech, or Kerry supporters at Georgetown who joined with the College Republicans in protesting Dean last week.

Mousepads, Shoe Leather, and Hope

[JohnKleeb]

77. To a certain degree it was though

I dont care really, I didnt encounter too much problems that night but to a degree it was a Kucinich event, our candiate spoke that night and take no offense yours didnt. The other stands were for the local like community activists.

[JohnKleeb]

5. I was at that DC event

They were pretty cool although I dont know all the facts being that I was in the church for some of the time and not at the tables. They were pretty shy actually :D. BTW that crowd there was a diverse one. John Conyers spoke there too, oh how nice it would be if we got his endorsement. It would be nice no it would be an honor. It wasnt officially anyone's rally that night it was for Democracy Rising which seems to like Kucinich.

[JohnKleeb]

3. I noticed that when I was at democracy rising that night

Hey at least they didnt shove the unelectable shit in my face. I think I may have seen you there VW, I was wearing a dress shirt and khakis I think being that I had come from Best Buy looking for a job. Oh what a glorious night that was, meeting your hero, nothing could had been better.

[veganwitch]

7. im so glad i get to meet you..

on the 25th. do you know where our major meet area is yet??

[JohnKleeb]

10. Ask prolesunited

I havent a clue. I will be quite shy mind you but get me riled up and I can be loud.

[veganwitch]

9. the coat of arms must be working :)

i expected much more "heated" discussion.

*must be less cynical*

[JohnKleeb]

11. You encountered good people in this thread vegan

Thats why, and these two willy and americkav despite having different candiates than us respect our guy a lot.

[KaraokeKarlton]

12. Kerry supporters do this at Dean events

In fact, on one occassion a Kerry supporter dressed up in a "waffle" costume and actually poked fun at Dean supporters. Ironic that the Kerry supporter didn't recognize the fact that HE was the one that looked like an idiot. All events have some naysayers from other campaigns present. Dean himself certainly wouldn't call for this, so it's the actions of supporters doing this independent of the Dean campaign. I suspect the Kerry campaign actually organizes this because the waffle boy had to come up with the money for the costume and all the waffles he was trying to rudely hand to Dean supporters. I love that Dean's supporters took the waffles, ate them and thanked the Kerry campaign for providing the catering for Dean's event. :D

[veganwitch]

14. like i said

ive never been to a dean event.

never the less, let kerry and dean fight, kucinich will slip by the mess :)

[dsc]

13. Since you decided to compare them to pro lifers at abortion clinics

I think you owe us some examples of them behaving like those people have been reported to behave on this board. For example did they shout at you? Did they shove pictures in your face? Did they call you names?

[veganwitch]

15. *and it was going so well*

when the analogy came to me at the kerry event i told jeremy "they arent there to persuade you they are just there to piss you off."

and they (dean people) did try to give me something as did the guy at planned parenthood who told me he would pray for me.

mostly its about not harrassing people. let them make up their own minds without having to go into the "sacred space" of others. like i said in my original post. is just comes off as asshole-ish.

[dsc]

16. I'm sorry

I really did have no right at all to even dare ask you to bother to back up an analogy of my candidate's supporters to what would be about the most hated ordinary people you could come up with. I mean that was so low of me. You had such abundant evidence to back your analogy up. I mean they called you such vile names. They threw bloody Iraqi dolls at you. Oh wait no they didn't. They gasp tried to hand you something at a public event. The bastards.

[Ripley]

17. How assholish of them....those, those, Dean supporters!!!

Afterall only Dean supporters would do something so rude. Afterall only Dean supporters can be assholes. Afterall why would anyone want to vote for Dean because allegedly there are a few who are assholes. :eyes:

To compare them to a gauntlet of fundies screaming at women trying to enter a medical facility is really a new low set here on DU. What next Dean supporters are allegedly whacking people like the Sopranos?

[veganwitch]

20. actually laroche's folk did it too

at the debate in baltimore and i thought they were assholes too.

this may not be exclusive to dean's supporters, as the earlier posts have stated, but they have done it before (as with the people wanting to go to clark's event). and at the dnc conference some bob graham folk tried to get into where the speaches were being held. this was after he announced he was dropping out. not sure what they were trying to prove.

this was only a personal observation where i saw first hand and within a one week time span so it seemed a bit uncanny.

[dsc]

21. excuse me but did what too

In response to my direct question "Did they shout at you?" I got nada. You made no claim of any shouting. Not in your original post. Not in your snotty response to me. So why all of the sudden are we hearing about LaRouch supporters who did shout and try to break up a debate?

[veganwitch]

26. i never said they were shouting.

but then again i wasnt shouted at at planned parenthood either.


and i was replying to ripley (previously) by the way.

[dsc]

27. then why did you just compare them to LaRoche supporters

at the debate? Those people shouted that is why they were removed. And I don't believe you weren't shouted at in what you called a guantlet at the abortion clinic.

And post 15 is what I considered a snotty reply. It is in response to me.

[veganwitch]

30. first off...

riley mentioned that "only dean supporters" would do this. and i stated that other supporters have done the same and i came with the same conclusion re: asshole-ism.

and on the etymology of "running the gauntlet" http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/keelhauling_running_the_gauntlet.html

"On running the gauntlet:

One of the worst crimes in a ship is theft: in a ship of the line with 800 or so men on board, the presence of a thief on board could make everyone's life a misery, poisoning the air with suspicion, particularly because most men could not lock up their valued possessions. For minor offences a thief was made to run the gantlet (probably from the Dutch gantlope: _gant_, all; _loopen_, run). For this men were given rope yarns which they plaited into knittles, with a half hitch in the end. They then stood in two rows, facing each other and leaving a corridor between them. The thief then had to strip off his shirt and was made to pass along the corridor, the master-at-arms walking slowly backwards in front of him and holding a cutlass at his chest and a ship's corporal following with another cutlass. The men then thrashed him with the knittles as he passed - as he slowly walked, not ran, the gantlet."

and if you look at a previous post of mine, you will notice that i was surprised about the civility of the thread before. i mentioned in my original post that this was simply a personal observation based on limited and personal experiences. (which i added about things i saw in a second hand way.)

[dsc]

31. I see basicly no response for why you compared to LaRouche

I doubt you will ever discuss that. As to the other thing Anti abortion protesters are known for yelling at people or did you miss the post where I directly asked you for conduct similar to theirs. YOu chose to use inflamitory language which you now can't back up. Those are the facts. You chose who to compare these people to and that is the fact.

[veganwitch]

32. ok lets do a recap.

ripley (sorry i said riley a few times)

"Afterall only Dean supporters would do something so rude. Afterall only Dean supporters can be assholes"

me

"actually laroche's folk did it too at the debate in baltimore and i thought they were assholes too."

this may not be exclusive to dean's supporters, as the earlier posts have stated, but they have done it before (as with the people wanting to go to clark's event).


so on that point you are the one putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

[dsc]

33. No I am using logic

Riley was clearly describing whatever you were accusing Dean supporters of having done. Then call that it you said LaRouche's supporters did it too. So you then were equating the it, which equalled what Dean supporters did, to what the LaRouche supporters did. And that was scream at a debate. So once again, when did any Dean supporters scream at any campaign event?

[Ripley]

75. Hey yall its' RIPLEY, NOT RILEY.

It irks me because the repub governor of my state is named Riley.

Carry on.

[ModerateMiddle]

35. This straw man

gets raised again and again, and people point out the fallacy of the argument, and yet, we see it again and again ....

A points out that X and Y do/did the same thing.

X screams "How dare you compare me with Y?!?!"

One way of explaining how awful you feel some particular action was is to compare it to something awful that the other person will understand - hence comparisons to "Bush-lite", comparisons to Gingrich, comparisons with anti-abortion fundies.

Saying that the thing that A did reminded them of the thing that they "hated group Y" did is not saying they are the same. It is saying that particular tactic really rubbed them wrong, and they disliked it, or stronger, but it's not saying they are the same.

The folks that erect the straw man don't address the original point - that the tactic was obnoxious. They attack the person for making the comparison.

Now, ready to be set up for comparing so-and-so to Bush - this is exactly how Bush and his minions address controversies - erect straw men (you are against THIS version of the Homeland Security Bill? It's because you don't care about the security of our homeland!!), divert and deny.

I believe that while very distasteful sometimes, all differences on policy are fair game. And I believe that to be credible, each candidate must address the charges that are made in one way or another. To pretend that Dems can't do that to one another is very much denying that it is going to happen to ANYONE by a MUCH larger degree in the general election against that 170-200 million.

[dsc]

43. Next time you decide to lecture you might try reading

This, for the record, is what she wrote. ive had to run a gauntlet like that before, when i went to planned parenthood to get an abortion.

Now please tell me where thw words "Saying that the thing that A did reminded them of the thing that they "hated group Y" did is not saying they are the same. It is saying that particular tactic really rubbed them wrong, and they disliked it, or stronger, but it's not saying they are the same." appear.

This poster didn't say that the Dean people reminded her of abortion protesters. She claimed that walking past them was like walking past abortion protesters. So, in response I asked her if they did any of the things abortion protesters do. It isn't erecting a straw man to ask someone to point out similarities they alledge exist .

[Mairead]

54. What does 'reminded of' mean, do you think?

It means it evokes a memory.

How does someone know that event B, occurring now, is 'like' event A which occurred in the past?

Because something about B evokes the memory of A.

Two events need not be anywhere near identical for one to remind of or be like another, and Veganwitch didn't try to claim they were, she said that the Dean presence raised unwelcome emotions that reminded her of the clinic experience.

Sheesh! Can't you be less madly partisan?

[dsc]

55. Except she didn't use those words

I realize you don't like to read what people write but instead prefer to make up posts to respond to but she said as I quoted WALKING PAST DEAN SUPPORTERS WAS JUST LIKE WALKING INTO AN ABORTION CLINIC TO GET AN ABORTION. Note the word remember isn't in there now is it.

[Mairead]

72. Are you a native speaker of English?

What do you IMAGINE the phrase 'was just like' meant? That she was having a flashback and thought she really was walking into the clinic? That the experiences were identical down to the time of day, month of year, clothes she had on, and the number and identities of the other people present? That she was expecting a medical procedure to result?

Where do you get the the right to read into the phrase any particular claim of similarity? You certainly don't get it from the English language.

(edit) After all the other claims you've made that have turned to dust, it was foolish of me to take this one at face value, but I did. Silly me. It was only after I posted this response that I went back and looked. You know what? I couldn't find where VW said 'was just like'. So how about pointing it out to me, since I must have missed it.

[DemDogs]

18. And blocked the entry and yelled obsenities at candidates

I witnessed both these activities from Dean supporters and from anti-abortion supporters.
And if Trippi wanted it to stop he could make it happen, but they don't want it to stop. They want other candidates and their supporters to hate them all because they figure that they will be the candidate and we will all have to play their game. But that thinking is wrong because all Dean ("weepy and liberal" "cockroaches"), Trippi, and many of the Dean supporters are doing are driving a wedge in the party. The Democrats have to win this election, but Dean people think it is a loss if their candidate doesn't win. That is the kind of thinking that has to be behind this kind of distructive tactics.

[dsc]

19. Where, and when did you witness this

I want locations times names etc. If you don't wish here then PM me. back this up and do so now.

[Cha]

22. Thanks dsc for following up on this because anyone

can say anything on this Board and we are suppose to swallow it "hook line and Sinker"! "Comparing Dean supporters to "anti-abortionist"...right.

[dsc]

23. and yet if I start a thread

using this person's post as an example of the lengths the Dean bashers go to guess who gets locked. This is simply unbelievable. We end up having to keep this thread front and center or let this nonsense remain unremarked on.

[Cha]

24. That's why I was so glad to see you here!

[veganwitch]

25. actually the conversation was civil

until your post.

we were talking about leaving other people's events alone.

[dsc]

28. No you were

deliberatly smearing Dean supporters by comparing them to people that are considered worse than NAZIs here. And I dared to actually ask for evidence to back that up. Then you compared Dean supporters to LaRouchies crashing a debate.

[dsc]

29. I'm waiting. I would like that info

it doesn't seem out of line to ask.

[dsc]

34. Are you ever going to back this up?

I would like you to do so.

[AP]

36. Does anyone think any of the candidates want low turnout in the primary?

Just wondering?

Does anyone see strategies that might be intended to turn off certain people from supporting their more traditional Democrat-style candidates?

[Duder]

37. Good point AP

It's been my personal observation that DK supporters seem to have more negative postings on the internet about Democratic candidates than any other candidate's supporters. I wonder if some of the vile wretched articles posted about Democrats could be attributed to the Green influence, or perhaps I've just been stumbling across a few radical DK supporters that might not be representative of the majority of DK supporters in their hostility towards other Democrats? Maybe it's just me, but they come across as asshole-ish and I don't think they're helping their cause but perhaps they're hoping for a low turnout as you've suggested.

[AP]

40. I don't think DK fans have anything to gain from low turnout.

Furthermore, if that Kleeb kid is any representation of DK'ers, they seem very inclined to get behind the other populist running, JE.

Anyway, DK is a Dem through and through.

[no name no slogan]

44. DK is definately a DEM

We've had a slight "problem" in MN recently where a certain member of the DFL heirarchy was spreading a rumor that DK was going to leave the party and seek the Green endorsement. This is the FARTHEST thing from the truth, as DK has repeatedly stated. That and the fact it would be political suicide for him in the House if he did that.

(BTW, this "party official" was at a convention of one of the state's largest unions, working at a party-sponsored table, dispensing his opinion. He has a right to his opinion, but to do so under the guise of representing the party is a little "dicey" to say the least.)

[JohnKleeb]

46. lol that Kleeb kid, dont make feel young! lol

Thats right I do like Edwards for his populist ideas, you're right. Well admittingly not in the Kucinich camp are like me but I am not the only one who likes Edwards.

[dsc]

38. Supposedly Dean's support is mostly independents

which would be the least likely people to vote. Assumedly Dean wouldn't want to be depressing turnout.

[AP]

41. I mean depressing registered Dem turnout, not

depressing turnout overall.

[dsc]

42. Since independents are less likely to vote

in primaries than Democrats are (I have never heard of anything but that being the case) then turnout being low has to hurt candidates relying on independent support. There is no way around this.

[wyldwolf]

71. Well, now you have heard of a case where that isn't true - New Hampshire

A week of interviews with New Hampshire voters... suggests some of the combative, leading candidates might do better by courting the state's growing number of independent voters -- voters with a history of preferring mavericks to party loyalists.

...In New Hampshire... more people are registered as "undeclared" than as either Democrat or Republican. And these independents, who can vote in either party's presidential primary, are likely to flock to the Democratic contest because no one is challenging President Bush for the Republican nomination.

Even voters who identified themselves as Democrats or Republicans said they take pride in their ability to look beyond party lines.

Among the independents who cast ballots in the Democratic primary in 2000, 57 percent voted for Bradley and 42 percent for Gore. Sixty-one percent of the undeclared voters casting Republican ballots voted for McCain, according to an analysis by the Survey Center at the University of New Hampshire in Durham.

much more.. http://www.post-gazette.com/election/20031019independents1019p2.asp

[peaceandjustice]

45. let's look at this comparison

The Dean supporter handed you information like the guy at planned parenthood who told you he would pray for you?

Did the Dean supporter say he'd pray for you? Did he do anything at all to indicate he thought your support of Kucinich was a sin?

What did the information the Dean supporter handed you say? Did it offer a list of reasons to support Howard Dean? Or did it call support of Kucinich genocidal or immoral?

How exactly is a public Kucinich rally like a private medical clinic? Why do you expect the same degree of privacy in attending what was almost certainly an advertised event as you do when you seek a service that most clinics emphasize is confidential?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. As a decidedly biased Kerry supporter I will say this

I am not surprised to hear Dean supporters compared to fundamentalist abortion clinic harassers. I often come away from DU with a poisonous feeling that Dean's following is so intractably set in the belief that theirs is the one and only man, that anyone who "doesn't get it" is deserving of less than full respect, and is in fact a dangerous obstacle.
It no doubt comes from the feelings of superiority engendered by a campaign which claims to be revolutionary in terms of its populism, is led by an "outsider" who is somehow different than other politicians, and promises to bring an abrupt turnabout to business as usual. So they feel that Dean is "new" and they are special, and so then these superior feelings can only breed contempt for the other candidates. Especially the two biggest threats to Dean's success- Kerry and Clark.

Now the question is would this attitude manifest itself in the way described here? Well, given that the candidate himself has called congress a bunch of "cockroaches" and has said other such hostile things, it is not very hard to believe that this may indeed have happened.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. Introspection

is not a common Dean trait.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polpilot]

58. Dean leads and Kerry is gone. No one feels a threat from Kerry. Look

at his poll #'s after a 30 year old 'career' in congress. Sen. Feinstein stated today (10-19-03) that she didn't know if bombing the shepherds in Iraq was the 'right thing'.. When will she know?...when will Kerry know? At their internment?

Dean '04...the New democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party.

[indigo32]

80. and it's funny

turn those words around and you get exactly what I come away from DU feeling. All I want is to be left in peace... and I suppose the only answer to that is to just never come back to this forum. But as a Dean supporter I'm demonized daily, and asked "How could you supporting this candidate" (in one way or another) daily. It's funny how people have a different perspective on things. I guess I can understand folks being upset about the cockroach comment (which in NO WAY referred to any other candidates supporters BTW)... but there is nothing new about anti-Washington rhetoric either.
BTW I don't have contempt for the other candidates...and will be comfortable voting for any of the candidates that are likely to get the nomination....should I be surprised... I'll still vote for the Democrat.

[wyldwolf]

48. SOME of Dean's followers can be like rightwingers in their "faith."

Two Dean supporters at my Dem party meeting the other night. Decked out in their Dean buttons.

The topic turned to the candidates and I mentioned a few documented (sourced by reputable sources) Dean situations.

One of the Dean supporters stood up and said, "that is a lie!"

The room got quiet until someone else said, "No, I read that too."

The one who made the "lie" exclamation glared at me the rest of the night. I briefly entertained the notion she might slash my tires before she left.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

50. The violent rhetoric will lead to this kind of thinking

"Breaking into the country club", "scurrying like cockroaches", yeah, concern for your cars tires isn't undue.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

68. well, THAT post really rambled along!

[dsc]

62. Gee, all of the elements of a smear

First, there is the story of an article by a reputable source, no link provided, no description provided, no nada. Then we have the "I entertained the notion she might slash my tires". And your evidence for that why nothing. Nada. Nihil. Nice smear.

[wyldwolf]

66. Oh, golly gee, DSC!

In the conversation with the woman in question, I gave her the sources of the situations.

But this thread isn't about particular issues, it's about the way some Dean supporters act.

Like you.

Then we have the "I entertained the notion she might slash my tires". And your evidence for that why nothing. Nada. Nihil. Nice smear.

I have plenty of evidence that I entertained that notion. 1.) I was there and distinctly remember having that notion. Evidence enough!

2.) Look up the definition of "notion" and you will see that #1 is all the evidence I need.

All! Complete!

bwahahahahahahaha

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gully]

81. Yes, and it is just 'Dean' supporters that do these things...

We are in fact a different kind of human. "Deanonators"

I'm certain they'll develope a psycological diagnosis in the near future to describe 'US'.

Let's see I think we suffer from????

"Deanpression"

Or...

"manicdeanpression."

"Schizodeania"

hmmmmm???? :freak:

[CMT]

52. Gee we all seem to get along here in Madison Wi

At Farmers Market I've had great conversations with Kerry, Kucinich, and Clark supporters. They come up to my table--some wearing their stickers for other candiates and say things like, "In the end it will be ABB" or "Dean is my second choice!!" or we have good natured chats about the issues. Too bad it can't be like that everywhere.

[Padraig18]

53. We get along here in IL, too.

We have many volunteers helping our county and district Democratic party do voter registration, updating call lists, etc. and they are (variously) Dean, Kerry, Gephart, Clark, Edwards, etc. supporters. We all discuss the relative merits of our own favorite candidate with very little rancor, and the overall sentiment is "ABB".

I find DU *much* more polarized than I find my real-world counterparts.

[ModerateMiddle]

76. I think it's like that in a lot of places

in 3d. The relative anonymity of the internet makes for some real doozies though. It's a shame. The larger a site gets, the higher percentage of assholes one sees, eh?

[gully]

82. Yea, but that's the midwest...

That doesn't really count does it? :eyes: ;)

[gully]

56. What a sorry thread. Have you heard of Kerry supporters handing out

waffles at Dean events? Or Clark supporters 'promising retribution' for posting anything they don't like about Clark on DU?

Or, the Nader supporter who held the large sign at the Dean Presidential announcement.

The candidates and their 'followers' are duking it out right now. It's to be expected.

BTW, we have a pathological group of Dean haters here who will not allow one positive thread about Dean. Peruse a few of the positive Dean threads you'll see what I mean. In fact it may be therapeutic for you.

[paulk]

57. if you don't agree with Dean's policies

you are now a "pathological Dean hater".

Do you expect this kind of rhetoric to gain Dean support, Gully?

BTW - D.U. is a discussion forum. It's open to all comers. If you want a "positive Dean thread", doesn't Dean have his own website?

[gully]

63. The threads I refer to are not necessarilly about 'policy'

they can be about anything related to Dean.

BTW, are you expecting me to try and convert the pathological Dean haters here? Look, I will defend Dean for the record, and for those on the fence, but most of "us" have made up our minds...

This thread is about bashing Dean supporters (period) and I can't believe it remains unlocked personally.

Who is the OP trying to 'gain support for' here?

[paulk]

70. I am immediately suspicious of rhetoric like "pathological Dean haters"

It's the same tactic the Bush administration is using to discredit critics of Bush.

Dean supporters would do well not to sink to that level.

I do not understand the "most of us" reference. Is there a club here that I am not aware of?

[gully]

78. Scuse me, did you read the OP? This thread is about bashing Deans

supporters.

"An observation I made about Dean supporters."

Where's the word 'some'.

This whole thread is dedicated to trashing those who support Dean.
As though 'we' are any different then the supporters of other candidates?? It's a ridiculous premise.

However, I maintain the fact that some "Dean bashers" here are indeed pathological. Note the word 'some'...

[LuminousX]

83. There is a big difference between the Haters an the Others

The Haters say things like "I looked in his eyes and saw a liar."
The Others say things like "I read his job creation policy and I don't think it will be as effective as Candidate X's."

The Haters say "Dean raped Vermont."
The Others say "Dean's healthcare program in Vermont had some holes that I do believe were caused by ineffective administration."

The Haters say "... and I felt the Dean supporters were going to slash my tires."
The Others say "... every candidate attracts some loons."

[indigo32]

85. Paulk

thats not what was said. I get along with plenty of people who have disagreements with Deans policies... that has nothing to do with it. I would say there are Dean haters out there...their actions and words speak quite loudly. That is NOT the same thing as disagreeing with policy he puts out.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

59. That is not nearly as bad as what the Kerry people did in DC last week

Dean was speaking at Georgetown, and they had Bush protestors, and then there were Kerry supporters holding up a sign that said "NRA Powered Howard." The president of Generation Dean AU went over to them and said "guys, you're helping the enemy here, can you put that away?" but they refused.

We all agreed that if Kerry came to speak in Washington and College Republicans were protesting, we would go to see him and cheer and try to help drone out the Bush people. I would do that for any of our candidates, and it is a shame that the Kerry people here do not feel the same way.

Mousepads, Shoe Leather, and Hope

[gully]

64. That is a shame. I saw Deans Georgetown speech, it was great

in spite of the 'kindly' Kerry supporters. ;)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

74. "NRA Powered Howard" ??? How does that help the enemy?

If anything it just got a lot of anti-Bush Virginians there behind Dean.

[gully]

79. Yes, I'm sure their intention was to 'recruit' for Dean...

:eyes:

[UnapologeticLiberal]

60. What they should have done in DC

is held up a sign when Nader spoke that said "Gore got 86% of the vote in DC. Vote Democrat."

For those of you who do not understand this, Greens in Vermont managed to get into Dean's declaration speech and stand right behind him with this huge sign that said "Nader Got 7% in Vermont. Vote Green Party."

So if our people had held up a sign that said "Gore got 86% of the vote in DC. Vote Democrat," it would have made them look pretty ridiculous.

Mousepads, Shoe Leather, and Hope

[Le Taz Hot]

73. Flame bait

You need to work on that "subtlety" part, vegan. Your methodology was far too transparent, particularly in your succeeding posts. You kinda busted yourself. :eyes:

[Skinner]

84. I'm going to lock this thread, too.

Smearing a candidate's supporters is really uncool. We allow it to a certain extent, but I think this thread has been open long enough.

Skinner
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