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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:41 PM
Original message
Dean disses Latinos
I didn't see a thread on this, and I apologize if it was discussed.
Did anyone else notice the way Dean spoke to the Latino small business woman at the Phoenix debate? She was the one who asked her question in Spanish. I watched the replay this morning on CNN and when Dean was answering her, he said she could get free prescription drugs in his state "given her income" -- but she NEVER said her income, in fact she looked pretty well off and Woodruff had described her as an example of the American Dream.
The only way to explain what Dean said was that he assumed BECAUSE she asked the question in Spanish that she had to be poor. It was a bad moment for Dean.
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Vikingking66 Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. this is a dupe
and it was a different question.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. yes, it is a dupe
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very bogus IMHO post
He may have meant "depending on" her income.


But claiming that he dissed her based on this is hogwash
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I noticed that too...
...but then I thought to myself "nah, no way he made such a humongous fuckup. I must have missed something."
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. prior thread reviewed video - no problem- Dean said he was answering prior
Edited on Sun Oct-12-03 10:45 PM by papau
ladies question - who had said she was low income - so no assumption that Spanish speaking meant anyone was poor.
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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. He was talking straight to Spanish speaking woman
I watched it on replay. There was no mistake. I watched for it because my Latino sister-in-law saw it. No mistake. Dean assumed she was poor.
Take this medicine and quit making excuses.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yawn
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. to be even more clear....
he was responding to the question asked by the lady who suffered the heart attack and was having problems with prescription drugs...then he answered the question about small businesses...

no racism was implied or carried out...

man, we really do have a problem with attention spans in this country when we can't understand that he was answering two questions at the same time, but we couldnt remember what the first question was...

PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

:evilgrin:

How we even gonna know the slip something by us if we cant payattention for more than two minutes...
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. As long as affluent white voters are pleased with his answer

that is what really matters.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Racism has nothing to do with it, it's just political reality

Minority and low-income voters have been marginalized to the point of virtual disenfranchisement long before now.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You seem very defensive about realities that pre-date Dean by decades

Do you blame him for the polarization of the US population?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I am being honest about the way things are. I did not create the situation

And to the best of my knowledge, neither did Dean.

I don't think that you can blame one individual for a systemic condition that has persisted for decades, but that is just my opinion.
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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I believe that the poster
was refering to the fact that you ignored the factual responses to what really occured in an effort to post you particular take on this subject....

it is as if the previous posts in this thread were not even read before some choose to post....

perhaps we should all slow down...take a deep breath and take some time to FRIGGING READ before we fly off the handle....

but that's just my piece of advice.....

:evilfrown:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I really had no idea that this was such a sensitive issue for Dean people

For the most part, my impression has been that they are political realists, in fact, on this very board I have seen posts criticizing Dean supporters for what the poster perceived as being too much concerned with political realism.

The reality is that minority and low income people are, for all practical intents and purposes, irrelevant in this election, and beyond the psychological or "feel-good" aspect of pleasing people who like to see a few prominently posed brown faces so that they can feel that they are "embracing diversity," the resources of Dean or any other of the moneyed candidates would be more efficiently channeled into the issues that resonate with their support base and contributors.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. but if Dean didn't dis Latinos
he didn't dis Latinos.

Just because of the realities about our society, if this charge is wrong, it's wrong.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. The point is, the realities of society make it irrelevant

whether he did or not. Polarization, marginalized populations have not been the focus of his campaign, and I do not make the claim that his contributions would increase if it had been.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. Guest Writer: Jerome Wiley Segovia, Latinos for Dean
My friend Pat Johnson with DC for Dean recently told me he was going to be volunteering in Burlington, Vermont. I jumped at the chance to join him and see what campaign headquarters was like. Well, its an amazing place, equal parts political memorabilia, excitement and incredibly likeable people. The best part is that I get a chance to give a quick report on a project which has taken all my free time for the past several months, Latinos For Dean.

Latinos for Dean is comprised of Latinos, friends of Latinos, people who speak Spanish and other Dean supporters who have self-organized and are striving to build an organization of 10,000 volunteers nationwide by the end of the primary season.

We have celebrated Dean's early endorsement of the Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride, only to be followed by his announcement that he's become the first presidential candidate this primary season to air ads in Spanish in New Mexico.

One of our main goals is to continually devise creative ways to reach our Latino audience, who in some cases do not speak perfect English, in other cases have felt ignored by politicians, and so they are tuned out. These include such events as co-hosting a Paraguayan "asado" in the DC area and an upcoming "see you at the ball game" outreach event at RFK stadium (soccer, this time!), supporting the IWFR in Minnesota, Texas, and other cities, and speaking about Governor Dean in Spanish on AM radio in Maryland. We're beginning to make inroads and effectively reach our communities in their own language, en nuestro idioma.

We also have recently become aware of DeanSpace, which is an excellent set of programming/design web tools for self-organizing groups such as ours that rely on limited volunteer help. Should you visit our site in the near future, you will begin seeing the improvements as we begin implementing this technology.

Recuperemos nuestro pas apoyando a Howard Dean!

Jerome Wiley Segovia
NE Regional Coordinator
Latinos For Dean

Posted by Guest Writer at 06:05 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/001738.html
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. I doubt it
I think you misunderstood, or else that you don't really believe what you wrote.

Where did you go, anyway?
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sfecap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yep. Dean's a racist.
They're having a discussion about it over at www.freerepublic.com .

You'd probably enjoy it.
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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Insufferable
Dean made a racist comment. You excuse it, ignore it, find a thousand reasons why it's okay, say that we belong at FR if we think Dean doesn't walk on water.
If you don't think that GWB will use this clearly racist statement -- and I re-watched this morning because I was told about it and IT IS TRUE. He got right into the face of the well dressed Latino woman and said, looking straight at her and not at the woman who asked the earlier question, "given your income" you would get free drugs in Vermont.
He thinks he understands blacks because he had a couple of black roommates thirty years ago (although they don't agree he would) and he thinks Latinos must qualify for reduced priced drugs.
He doesn't get it. Face it.
And I am sick and tired of being called names if I post anything against Dean. When I say negative things about other candidates, I am never called names. Speaking of which, this deserves its own thread.

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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. St. Howard Does No Wrong
Debate has ceased to have meaning around here. Zealotry has a stranglehold on DU. If you cross the line, prepare to be tarred and feathered.

Honestly, I didn't notice the comment during the debates, but it wouldn't change my opinion of the man much at this point.

Side note: I've noticed a real rise in anti-Kerry signature lines. Pretty obvious sign of anxiety.

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. there's no way you can be that sure
that woman was describing the difficulties of the hispanic economy. It's a fact that hispanics are harder hit by the bad economy, possibly the hardest hit of any group. Her question was not about herself, it was about her community, and in fact many in that community are poor.

Another possibility is that there was something in her question that didn't get across in the translation. Dean speaks Spanish, so he may have heard a different question than you did, assuming you listened to the translated question.

But you might be right, it may be as you say. If you can find any info on how that woman liked Dean's answer, and whether she interpreted it the same way you did, please post it.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. My Spanish is not so great
but that translator was horrible. But it is clear in his answer that he was addressing the previous woman's (the stroke victim's) question first. It is her income and not the Hispanic woman's he was discussing.
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DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. From Hotline
This is all I found so far. I don't speak Spanish, so I don't know if there is anything on any Spanish language sites.
"Making An Ass-umption? In answering a question from Spanish-speaking Ernestina Escobar, who was introduced as "someone in our audience who has experienced the American dream." Dean responded: "You would have prescription benefits if you moved to Vermont, because a third of all our people, especially at your income level, are eligible for prescription benefits without help from the federal government." She never mentioned her financial situation.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. first, what's hotline?
Second, I had a feeling this is something that's "going around," not just a personal observation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I am not calling you names, but you are getting a little over the top.
Sorry, but you are. This has been covered several times. This is one of those where no one could find anything to satisfy you. Dean speaks Spanish fluently, but I believe he was referring the other lady who told her amount of income.

Go back and read it, and then tell us what you think. You are really getting bad about posting stuff about Dean just to antagonize.

Waiting for you to show sources for the names you were called.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. First of all...
how did he get in her face? Was she on the stage, or was he in the audience? If he was on the stage and she was in the audience, how could you call that getting in her face? Second, how do you know he was looking at her if he was on the stage and she was in the audience?

Did the camera have both of them in the same shot at the same time? If so, you would not have been able to see his eyes properly because the camera would have been side-on to them. If they weren't in the same shot at the same time, how do you know where he was looking?

Finally, if you have not been called names for posting negative things about other candidates, you have obviously never posted anything negative about Kerry or Clark. Their followers are just as agressive as Dean's followers when it comes to attacking the messenger.

Now, let's see what the explanation has been: A low income woman asked a question about prescription medicine costs, and a latino woman asked a question about small business. Dean answers about prescription medicine costs and about small businesses, leading to the idea he was answering two questions at once.

Your claim is he is racist and got in a latino womans face to make a racist comment on a nationally televised debate.

Personally, even if Dean WAS racist, he sure isn't stupid, so I would suggest YOUR theory is the one LEAST likely to be true.
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sfecap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. You are simply wrong.
Edited on Mon Oct-13-03 12:06 AM by sfecap
And your post is flamebait. And it's the SECOND post today that inplies that Howard Dean is a racist. A new low for DU.

If you read the transcript and watch the video, you'll find that Dean was replying to TWO people who were in the front of the stage, standing in close proximity to each other.

The first was a woman who had asked a question that went to Edwards regarding prescriptions. She stated that she had an income of 800 dollars a month. The next person was the Hispanic woman who asked about Spanish businesses.

He replied to both. One answer to two questions.

Transcript:

(snip)

WOODRUFF: All right, thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

I want to turn to Karen Dickinson. Karen, you are, you and I spoke a few minutes ago. Where are you? Right here. Please. Stand up, and do we have a microphone?

You are, I'm told, a stroke survivor ...

QUESTION: Yes.

WOODRUFF: ... and you have concerns about health care, specifically about prescription drugs.

QUESTION: Yes. Forgive me for having to read this.

I am a stroke survivor, I am disabled and on a fixed income. For seven months I went without prescription medication because we cannot afford supplemental insurance to my Medicare.

I chose food over medicine.

How can you assure me and the many other voters -- there's millions like me -- that you empathize with my hardship and as president you will make certain this won't happen to any other American? Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Who has -- Senator Edwards?

EDWARDS: Thank you.

Karen, how long have you been without any kind of coverage for your prescription drugs?

QUESTION: It's been over a year.

EDWARDS: Over a year. And how much...

QUESTION: We moved from Massachusetts...

EDWARDS: And how much...

(LAUGHTER)

It's not because you don't like Massachusetts, I'm sure. And how much...

KERRY: Wait until the Red Sox win the World Series.

(LAUGHTER)

EDWARDS: How much do your prescription drugs cost?

QUESTION: I went on a Pfizer program, and that's why I can do it, I can afford it now. And they're $51 that I pay. Before that it was 400 and some dollars a month.

EDWARDS: Which is just crippling, crippling for you, isn't it?

QUESTION: I get $800 -- and I don't care who knows it -- I get $830 a month from my Social Security because I had to take it at such a young age.

EDWARDS: And you and your family are in the same situation that millions of families are...

QUESTION: Millions.

EDWARDS: ... around this country.

Here's what I think we need to do. First, we need a real comprehensive prescription drug benefit for you and family, under Medicare, not the George Bush plan that's going the Congress right now. That's the last thing we need to do.

And second, we have to bring down the cost of prescription drugs for you and for all of those Americans who are struggling to pay the cost, which means having a president to do what I've done my whole life, which is have the backbone to stand up to these big drug companies, with their advertising, with their price gouging, not allowing drugs to come back in here out of Canada, stopping their abuse of the system to keep a monopoly and keep generics out of the market.

WOODRUFF: All right.

EDWARDS: We need a president of the United States that will stand up for you and people like your family. I will be that president.

(APPLAUSE)

(snip)

WOODRUFF: There's someone in our audience who has experienced the American dream. Would you stand? She's Ernestina Escobar.

And I know that you will be speaking in Spanish, but you ask your question, please, for any one of the candidates, and then we have a translator who is going to speak.

QUESTION (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): As a Latin woman, one of my concerns is what's going to happen with the Spanish economy, and that's my worry right now. Because most of the businesses, Spanish businesses, are having a very slow economy right now, and that's causing a lot of problems.


WOODRUFF: Governor Dean?

DEAN: That gives me actually an opportunity to answer two questions. One was the prescription question as well.

(responds to first question)

We have got to stop in this country trying to stimulate the economy by giving help to enormous corporations, which then move their jobs to other countries. The way to help this country's economy is to invest in small businesses, allow them to have health insurance and help them pay for health insurance, and get them capital.

Banks will lend small businesses capital as soon as they don't need it, and we need to get capital in when businesses want to grow. Small businesses create more jobs than big businesses do, and they do not move their jobs to other countries.

(responds to previous question)

In my state, everybody has health insurance under 18. You would have prescription benefits if you moved to Vermont, because a third of all our people, especially at your income level, are eligible for prescription benefits without help from the federal government.

(to the audience)

What I want is a country that will start valuing ordinary human beings again, whether they're Latino, African-American, Asian American, Native American. No matter who they are, we are all in this together.

It was the dream of Martin Luther King when I was 21 years old at the end of the civil rights movement that if one of us was left behind, then this country was not as good as it could be or as it should be.

And what my campaign is about, something else that Martin Luther King said, which is that, "our lives begin to end when we stop speaking up for the things that matter." That's how we are going to change America.

We're going to invest in small businesses, not just in the Latino community, but in every community. We're going to invest in people who need help. We're the only industrialized world -- country in the world that doesn't have a universal health care system that includes every single person. We can do that and we can do all these things if we're all in this together.

(snip)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5841-200...

To imply that Howard Dean (or ANY of the Democratic candidates) is a racist is total unmitigated bullshit and should not be condoned here. If you don't like the man, fine. But to call him a racist is freeper bullshit. Take it over there, you'll have a great audience for it.





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sfecap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Let me tell you something...
You're statement/implication that Dean is racist is perhaps the most offensive thing I've seen at DU. I live in a state in which I am the minority. (I'm an anglo.) I hosted a fundraiser in my home for Gov. Dean at which many of attendees were from Hispanic or Native American descent. The income ranged from very affluent to very low income. I've seen this man up close and personal discussing issues of importace to the Hispanic and Native American communities. He is informed, interested, and very willing to listen to other people's point of view. The last thing that describes him is condescending or patronizing. Or racist!

He is fluent in Spanish. You may have noted that he didn't reply in Spanish to that woman. Wanna know why? Because it would have been seen as patronizing, and I'm sure someone here would have started a thread on how Howard Dean only wanted to upstage the other candidates...

Another poster in this thread might be interested to know that at that very same fundraiser, at which the minimum donation was $250.00, a number of attendees were comped by the Dean campaign because they just couldn't afford the $250, and they really wanted to meet him. (This after they had an opportunity to see him at the rally, along with 2500 other people.) I know of another candidate who came to town recently whose campaign staff would not even consider allowing non payers into a private fundraiser that was held. (And it wasn't Dennis Kucinich...) Four of those who were invited (without question) by the Dean campaign were students (Hispanic), and two were single moms with kids, one of which Gov. Dean spent considerable time discussing her situation regarding health care one on one. The Dean campaign could have simply shut the door to those who couldn't donate, but they didn't. They wouldn't think of it.

The idea that this man is a racist, is insensitive to others, does not care about the disenfrancised or less than affluent is fucking bullshit.

This is a new low here. I have to seriously consider staying with this forum. I am very, very angry.

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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-12-03 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. This posts SEEMS deliberately disinformational BECAUSE...
those of us who saw it live (and I have the tape) KNOW that Dean was responding to the OTHER woman's question as well as the hispanic woman's. It threw me off at first too because he sounded like he was not responding to the right p
BUT

That is a problem with these debates. Candidates TRY to answer and COVER the issues raised that they think they can make points with.

Sometimes, like in this case, it throws folks off when a smart guy like Dean is answering two questions at the same time in rapid fire succession and the "moderator" is throwing him curveball sleaze attacks by Kerry and he has only thirty seconds to get his defense and answers in.

This post just is an invite to objection for being utter bullshit in really Rovian clothing.

Dean anti-Hispanic??? Total Bullshit.

I urge everyone to ignore posts like these after an initial statement of *cough* BULLSHIT!!!
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. I agee about this thread
but I would urge against knee-jerk defensiveness, there's enough of that already. Better to take it case-by-case. Some criticisms are good.
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-03 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
34. This is a dupe......
I'm locking this thread. Please refer to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Thanks,
punkingal, DU moderator
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