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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:28 AM
Original message
Who is your second choice in the Democratic nomination race?
If your candidate decided to end his presidential campaign today who would you support instead and why?

I see there is a lot of anymosity here among supporters of different candidates and it would be interesting to know the second choices.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kerry
Despite IWR, I feel he has a good all around progressive record, I respect him for serving then doing a lot of hard work after that. I definely have my reasons obviously.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. It was Dean then I became disillusioned with him, then it was Clark, now
I'm disillusioned with him. But I think it's gonna be Kerry, Clark, or Dean. So I guess my second choice is 'whoever wins'.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Clark or Edwards
I'm still not convinced on Clark. I still get the feeling that his campaign is manufactured, particularly on domestic issues. Edwards I could go for in a second.
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Anyone But Bush.....
is my first, second, third, and so on. :)
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
52. Who do you would fair better...
against Bush? Shouldn't that person be your first choice? :-)
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. Dean first, Kucinich next.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. 1st choice by a long shot: Dean. 2nd choice: Edwards (used to be Clark)
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 02:19 AM by w4rma
2nd choice used to be Gephardt and Kerry before that. Dean just destroys all their campaigns.

I have to admit that I haven't researched Edwards's positions very well though. Edwards overflows with charisma and intellegence. He's too laid back for this campaign, I think, and he hasn't been able to garner very much grassroot support. Clark's positions seem to be mirrors of Dean's, but the way he answered that IWR question really blindsided me so now he's got me wondering what he might blindside me on down the line. Clark doesn't have a record to go on. Clark does seem to be able to attract grassroots support, though. And Clark is still my preferred choice for Vice President on a Dean/Clark ticket. Gephardt has a good position and record on trade but he lacks the charisma that the others have more of, IMHO. Kerry was a war hero, but I know that I'd have trouble selling him to many folks I know and knew, here in Virginia, because of his aristocratic-like demeanor.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well, it probably would have been Graham because he voted NO
on the IWR.

But now, it's probably Edwards because he's a stand up guy.

The others made me too mad along the way.
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mndemocrat_29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. First choice Kerry
Second choice Edwards, third Clark
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't have one.
I see that each candidate has both strengths and drawbacks. I haven't decided on a second choice. If I had to make a second choice, I would consider these, in no particular order:

Edwards; Kerry; Dean.

I don't plan to make a second choice. If my vote doesn't get my candidate nominated, I'll vote for whoever is in the general election.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. My second choice is the same as my first: Dennis Kucinich
Check-off or write-in, Dennis is the adult choice.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Tough question:
My 'second choice' would actually be one of three people: Kerry, Edwards or Clark, and I don't know which one I would choose, as of today.
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. First is Dean, and second WAS Graham
Now #2 will be whoever gets the nomination.
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Edwards
Despite his idiotic vote on the IRW, I really like his views on education.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Edwards
Clark first
Edwards second

I like both of them
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. I don't have a second Choice
I'm Dean first and then, if he fails, I'll support whoever the Democratic National Convention nominates.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Ditto
Our primary is early enough that Dean should still be in, so I should get to vote for him (barring some unforeseen disaster which could befall him/his campaign).

If I lived in a state that had a later primary so that I really needed to think about this, I'd vote for Kerry. He was my guy before his IWR vote, and I like his record overall. I think he's a great person- as are most of our nominees! Though I agree with the other poster who said he'd be harder to sell, at least to the people of Texas.


Even with my misgivings about Clark, at this point I will vote for the Dem nominee. However, I will not take any sort of loyalty oath as some people have demanded here. Besides, my vote doesn't count in the general election since I live in Texas, so those same people need to get off their supposed moral high-horse. There ARE some things worse than Shrub. And one of those is completely destroying the Dem party such that Dems and other progressives can't get elected!
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. If I can't vote for Dean
I won't vote in the primary. While I am willing to vote for any of the other candidates for President, I don't want a hand in getting them the nomination.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. Clarkie for Kerry, but
Dean's okay; Gep's okay; Kucinich is okay. Moseley Braun was spectacular in the debate, but she'll be dead letter by the time the voting comes to Texas. Gep too, I'd bet.

Actually, Dean really already is my second choice. I was backing Graham. I would've happily voted for Bustamante if I lived out Left.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
17. Not sure
at this point... I'll support whomever is nominated and don't expect to have to chose somebody else for the primaries. I appreciate them all for various reasons... though some are better than others. I just can't decide right off hand.
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Same here...
I haven't decided on a first choice yet. But Dean would probably be my second. :shrug:
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SkepticalThomas Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. Second Choice
At one time I had entertained the thought of Edwards as VP or my second choice.

However, upon reading some of the material on his website,

1.)
"America is one nation under God,"Senator Edwards said. "This ruling is wrong." (In reference to the ruling of the Ninth Circut on the Pledge.)

2.)
Asked by Chandler, one of the first graders, what he would do to keep God in public life, Senator Edwards pointed to the Senate's support of using the "under God" in the pledge of Allegiance.

3.)
Some of you may know that I have the honor of co-chairing the Senate Prayer Breadkfast. But I'm not in charge of the Prayer Breakfast. The Lord's in charge.



he is now one step above Mr Lieberman.



Contrary to what Mr Edwards thinks, this is not one nation under god, it is a nation under a multitude of beliefs and significant portion, under no belief at all.

Anyone so naive as to think that this entire nation subscribes to his particular brand of superstition/religion is not in my estimation a man suited for the job of presidency or vice presidency.

We've already tried that, and we all know how well that worked out.

Personally I prefer someone who will use their intelligence and common sense to solve problems instead of hitting their knees and asking invisible people for help.

Just my two cents.


To answer your post, my second choice at this time would have to be Clark. He is the only other candidate who made it a point to say that we live in an age of reason, and we should use our intelligence and communication to solve our problems.

Tom


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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. Mine is
Edwards.
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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Mine would be...
Kerry is First. Clark Second. I doubt both of them will drop out.

I am addicted to smileys... :crazy:
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ModerateMiddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kerry first, Clark second
I used to want Edwards second. He's now my third. Those are the three I would be *VERY* happy to pull a lever for. The rest of them I will do it to get Bush out, but it will once again be voting against Bush, not voting FOR a candidate I really want to be President.
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Fabio Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. Tough call
My first choice is John Kerry.


As a second choice, I am a little torn. I like what John Edwards has done in his campaign -- good message and tone, strong team, but I prefer him as a VP rather than a Pres. This is because of his lack of international experience. It doesn't mean his instincts are bad -- but I feel like the Commander in Chief/ Chief Diplomat portion of the job is gonna be pretty important in 2004-2008.

In that light, my second choice would probably be Clark -- he has a lot of CiC and diplomatic experience, but is obviously light on the other stuff. Still, this is subject to change based on his performance in the next few months.
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ModerateMiddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yeah, but
this Still, this is subject to change based on his performance in the next few months is sort of a given for everyone, isn't it? I mean, I am pretty firm for Kerry, but if he suddenly started doing something totally outrageous, I would be moving on.
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Fabio Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Yes, but
The level of public information of record available on Gen Clark is substantially less than that of many of the other candidates.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kerry or Edwards and then Gephardt
I haven't agreed with as many of Edwards votes but I really like him His commitment to civil rights is impressive and he seems like a really honorable person. Kerry is supposed to be a liberal but he hasn't been voting liberal. I get that he deeply regretted his vote on the IWR and didn't know what to do about it. I've met Gephardt and he agreed to stand up to the Republicrats. He even criticized them. However, then he did just the opposite. The reason he voted for the IWR was because he wanted a threat and did not believe it would result in a war. He thought it would get everyone to vote against the Republicans because they would then be focused on the economy and that a Democratic Congress would then stop Bush. He did oppose Homeland Security.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Correction
John Kerry's voting record and ratings
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Thanks for posting this
It's important to vote based on the issues and Kerry is pretty good. I am really hoping to go with first choices though. So far I agree more with Dennis than with anyone else on all the issues.
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kucinich or Edwards (was Kerry)
The Kerry campaign lost me (too much military and too much attack)...still would vote for him in the general, but will work hard against him for the nomination.
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. Dean first
Kerry second. Not sure after that. I think Braun has held her own in the debates but she doesn't stand a chance.


Lieberman is certainly my last choice. I would support any of them (even, grudgingly, Lieberman) over Bush.
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lams712 Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. Was Dean, now leaning towards Kerry (KUCINICH STILL #1)
n/t
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. me too lams
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
32. Kucinich (n/t)
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. clark or edwards...
...right now I am leaning Dean.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. First choice is Clark...
, but Dean is a very close second. Some days I'm a Clark supporter, sometimes I'm a Dean supporter. That tells you how close it is for me.
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Mass_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
36. I am a deanie who would vote for Kerry
Ironically enough! Kerry people and us Dean people go after eachother so much, but Kerry and Dean aren't exactly polar opposites. They are both liberal on their views of healthcare, the war, and taxation. There are both the shiznit.


Peace. :kick:
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xJlM Donating Member (955 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
37. Anyone but Bush
If Dennis Kucinich doesn't get the nomination, I'll support any other Democrat. I will not support a stealth repug, or repug-lite, and that's my decision to make.
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kang Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. Clark first, second place goes to Dean or Edwards (tie)
Dean's policy grasp and ability to persuade people on certain issues like health care and taxes is impressive, but he comes up short in the foreign policy/national security arena in my opinion (that is, ability to win over the confidence of independents). That could be overlooked depending on how bad the economy gets over this next year. But his bio doesn't give any advantage over Bush's and he's a guy that people will either really like or not due to his cocky, scrappy bulldog mentality.

Edwards has lots of ability and seems to give the A+ answer to questions on TV, but he's a 50 year old that looks 30 in a campaign that will be about leadership in troubled times (domestically and abroad). He's also a first term Senator. Good bio for the most part though compared to Bush's. That is unless you think the whole trial lawyer attack will have any traction (specifically, in states that are up for grabs).

Sorry to say that I think Kerry is a no-go in my book. Not because I don't think he's held the right positions on most issues, but everytime he speaks it's like he's giving a eulogy at somebody's funeral or speaking English like one of the founding fathers. Also, can't help it, but it bothers me that he's had his eye on the White House for so long (not that it doesn't bother me that it's been Bush's fall-back career!). I hope people seek the presidency because they have a specific reason or things they want to acheive once in office, not vanity or ambition or to follow your dad's footsteps. Sorry to any Kerry people for the minor dig, but I do have mucho respect for him and his long career of public service.

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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
40. 2nd Choice

Among the front-line people, John Kerry is my 1st choice with John Edwards #2
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
42. Was Dean For The Longest Time, But...
Let me give the history of my perception of Dean:

1. He seemed fairly lightweight, but was pointed in the right direction on most issues. Early on Dean's persona didn't do much for me, but it didn't exactly irk me either.

2. Dean started running a really nasty campaign that stepped on everyone, but he seemed to have a special place for Kerry. Dean's persona seemed more petulant than righteous by this point.

3. In late summer, the other campaigns finally started coming around to firing back after months of absorbing crap about the "Democratic wing," being "second-tier," being "Bush-lite" or "Dean-lite," and needing a "spine transplant."

Low blows, whatever. That's politics. But what really drove me off the wall was that Dean and his supporters immediately, and I mean immediately, turned into thin-skinned whiners. This is what did him in for me. After months of gamely taking on tons of Dean supporters blasting Kerry, they now have the nerve to talk about all the negativity from the other campaigns.

4. I shouldn't fail to mention that over the months, Dean amassed a stunning amount of hypocricies and flip-flops over the issues. This hasn't exactly enamored me, either. So...

While I would hold my nose and vote for Dean, it would be with the bitterest taste in my mouth.

I am still waiting for Clark to develop an actual domestic policy, so for now I'm giving him a #2 with an asterix.

I have to admit that I have slowly been gaining respect for Edwards, who has run a thoroughly decent campaign and offered up some great policies. I think his inexperience will greatly hinder him should he get the nod, but I would be perhaps most enthusiastic supporting him of all in the field.

Except, of course, John Kerry - who has a kick-ass domestic and foreign policy, and tremendous experience in understanding an combating stateless terrorism. Not only spend 10 years or so on the Subcommittee on Terrorism and International Operations, he literally wrote the book on the subject. Clark's conventional warfare experience is impressive, but doesn't seem entirely appropriate to the nature of the menace we face.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Your "history" was so touching that I almost
cried.


















Almost.
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Pez Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. you're not getting all...
...weepy and liberal on us are you!@#?~

:9
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. I can forgive
Clark for voting for Reagan, but he's going to have to work pretty hard to convince me first. I gotta tell you, after all the sensible stuff I've heard coming out of Clark's mouth that bit of info really surprised me. I mean it wasn't much of a secret in the eighties that Reagan was an empty suit.
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kang Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. Actually, the Reagan vote makes sense for a military man
considering the other option was Jimmy Carter. It's not like Pres. Carter inspired confidence about his ability to turn around the economy and fight the Cold War. This wasn't just military people who especially cared about nat'l security issues, but the whole country was unsure of his administration. After all, Sen. Kennedy challenged Pres. Carter in the primary!

I understand reluctance w/Clark's domestic policy abilities, but people please remember that the Terminator just won California! Even I thought that was unthinkable a year ago! Reagan, JC Watts, Bono, Steve Largent, Jack Kemp...people vote for the person not the policy positions. Details are important, but so is the leader who delivers the message. It's time we start recognizing what the enemy is doing.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. The empty suit inspired more confidence than Carter?
What about '84? How could anyone still be fooled by Reagan at that point?

"I understand reluctance w/Clark's domestic policy abilities, but people please remember that the Terminator just won California! Even I thought that was unthinkable a year ago! Reagan, JC Watts, Bono, Steve Largent, Jack Kemp...people vote for the person not the policy positions."

That's not what I meant by "work pretty hard to convince me first". The fact that Schwarzetc. won California is a reason to forget policy and just salute Clark into office because of the person he is? What I see is a good man, and a good officer, who was either gullible enough or conservative enough to vote for Reagan.

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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
43. Kerry
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 05:22 PM by poskonig
Kerry is experienced, is liberal, and generally has good judgment.

(Dean is my first choice, naturally, for the top of the ticket.)
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BushGone04 Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. First choice Kerry, second choice Edwards
I really like Edwards' speaking style, his middle-class story, and his honesty and character. Plus, I'm from North Carolina, and I'd love to see one of us in the White House. :)
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Thats a neat reason
Dont flame me but I have a simliar reason for liking DK, we share some ancestry in a way, I love his story too, and I like Edwards too.
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davhill Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
48. Graham seems to have been a lot of peoples second choice
He was my first choice. Now I have to look for someone who can measure up to his stature and still attract voters. After I find that one, I will start looking for a second choice.
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Pez Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
49. sharpton
actually kucinich or edwards. if kerry was, i don't know, assassinated and he wasn't in the race tomorrow i'd work for kucinich's campaign.
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Kanola Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
51. Dean first followed by Clark
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
53. Kucinich, Braun
Health Care, Nafta. Iraq. These issues matter and only three candidates make the test.
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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Moseley Braun
after Dean, I had Graham, but he pulled out.

I have lost respect for Kerry, Gephardt & Leibermint,
for all the crap they pull

I wouldn't vote for Clark (nutbag-egomaniac)
Kucinich or Edwards

that only leaves Sharpton and Braun, and she has experience.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
56. Because of his organization and guts,
my choice for VP would be Dean (even though his supporters have issues with us).
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nocreativename Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
57. my top three
DEAN
Edawards
Clark???? if he is really a dem. I have not heard talk about anything yet.
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