Clark busted on C-SPAN...

[sfecap]

He's in Iowa at the Harkin Town Meeting...

Just got asked about raising money for rethugs, and praising Powell, Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the Chimp AFTER bush's tax cut and eviseration of enviornmental programs...the questioner read his quotes to him...

Tell us why we should thimk you're a Democrat in light of these statements...

Didn't answer the question directly (hard to believe, huh?), but stumbled around it, insisting that he's now chosen to be a Democrat...and he's "going to bring others into the Party".

Maybe Rummy and Wolfowitz?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. that is not the way I heard it

I heard a man give an honest answer to working for many
years in DoD... if he had turned pubbie, the pubbies
woudl be asking about Cohen and Clinton.

[cavebat2000]

2. :)

LoL. Well... It does make me think at least 3 times before I support someone who was a republican up to a few weeks ago. I want a democrat as president... not a poser.



Ill have to learn more. Until then hes a poser. ;-)

[wyldwolf]

6. There is no reason to believe Clark was a Republican up until..

...a few weeks ago. I've researched this so hit me with any evidence you think you may have.

;)

[Demobrat]

16. Raising money for them is close enough.

Clark's being registered as an Independent is not a problem for me, and his votes are his business. Even praising W & friends in public, while not attractive, is somewhat understandable. I've worked for assholes and understand corporate politics well enough to get over that. But raising money for Republicans? These so-called Republicans? Helping them get their war chest together? Deal-breaker.

[wyldwolf]

17. It was a paid speech...

..he was hired to do it.

He wasn't hired to raise money for Max Cleland, Erskin Bowles, and several other democrats.

He did that because he is a democrat.

[Demobrat]

19. He got paid to shill for them?

And that makes it OK? No. It makes him a whore.

[wyldwolf]

22. Ok, never mind...

:)

[Tinoire]

60. If you can smile at that- you're a good-hearted person.

Looking forward to talking to you someday about anything besides Clark or Yugoslavia!

These primaries are going to be tough and intense. Hang in there... You're actually doing a great job for Clark.

:)

[Tinoire]

59. This was a free interview from March 2003. Lavished praise on Bush & Co

March 2003

Of the people who are running this war, from Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and Powell on down, in terms of the political appointees, are there are any who you particularly like who you would work with again, hypothetically, in some ...

I like all the people who are there. I've worked with them before. I was a White House Fellow in the Ford administration when Secretary Rumsfeld was White House chief of staff and later Secretary of Defense, and Dick Cheney was the deputy chief of staff at the White House and later the chief.

(Deputy Secretary of Defense) Paul Wolfowitz I've known for many, many years. (Deputy National Security Advisor) Steve Hadley at the White House is an old friend. (Under Secretary of Defense for Policy) Doug Feith I worked with very intensively during the time we negotiated the Dayton Peace Agreement; he was representing the Bosnian Muslims then, along with (Pentagon advisor) Richard Perle. So I like these people a lot. They're not strangers. They're old colleagues.

Do you disagree with them on their worldview?

I disagreed with them on some specific aspects. I would not have gone after the war on terror exactly as did and I laid that out in the . But I also know there's no single best plan. You have to pick a plan that might work and make it work. That means you've got to avoid the plans with the fatal flaws. This administration came into office predisposed to use American troops for war fighting and to realign American foreign policy so it focused on a more robust, more realistic view of the world than the supposedly idealistic view of the previous administration.

But the views that President Bush espoused recently at the American Enterprise Institute, if his predecessor had espoused that view he'd have been hooted off the stage, laughed at, accused of being incredibly idealistic about the hard-nosed practical politics of the Middle East. So this is an administration that's moving in a certain direction, and now that that's the direction they've picked they've got to make it work. Like everybody else, I hope they'll be successful. It's too important; we can't afford to fail.

But certainly you're contemplating running for president -- I understand you haven't made a decision -- so even though you root for their success, you can't agree with their methods.

<snip>

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/24/clark/print.html

[Speck Tater]

71. If Rove offered to pay you to praise Bush, would you?

nough said.

[mhr]

7. I am Very Suspicious of This Man

for exactly the reason you mention.

It is hard to believe that anyone can go through life and not take a political stand.

He seems like someone that bends with the wind.

[wyldwolf]

13. That is military culture... you're loyal to country, not to party...

..he voted Clinton twice and Gore in 2000. He also campaigned for democrats in the 2002 elections.

[Tinoire]

61. How about being loyal to principles?

I know many veterans who were loyal to their country precisely by being loyal to the principles of the Democratic Party.

Military people eat, breath, and live politics because one day they know they may have to die for it. Yes, there's a lot of brain-washing regardless of the administration because you don't want young soldiers questioning too much too often but there really are many who declare their party and think about their positions.

When you may have to die for it, believe me you start thinking about it.

It is true, that the more liberal you are... the lonelier you'll be but there are several Generals I know personally who are vocal Democrats.

[diplomats]

15. He was a registered independent

NOT a Republican.

[hamsterhuey]

3. i dunno

to hardcore partisan democrats, like myself, the answer might not be greatly satisyfing. but i have to consider that 1/2 the country is independent, and of the people who belong to the party, about 1/2 dont care or just do say they are but dont really care. in the general, i really doubt this clark is a democrat is going to matter ... but yeah, i can understand if people aren't satisfied with a guy who voted for reagan

[billbuckhead]

20. I've just about decided to pick Clark as my man. I like smart guys.

I think he handled the question very well. He said no Americans wanted the nation to fail.
He sounds like an authentic small "d"democrat as well as can articulate the best ideas of the New Deal. Hey, he basically said, "national healthcare because it's morally right".
He sound like an economist as well as a student of history. He's as smart on his feet as Clinton. I often wonder how many people on this board are really Democrats or even (d) democrats. Wes is at least as much a liberal as any Southern elected Dem. I know that's faint praise, but that's also the point. Only a native son of this troubled region of America can reach the confused white people of Dixie. It has among the worst educational systems in the industrialized world for WHITE KIDS, let alone minorities. WORSE HEALTHCARE on average THAN CUBA, as well as lower literacy than Cuba.
I think this Clark guy can win the election and then win battle for progress in America and the world.

[wyldwolf]

4. You heard what you wanted to hear...

...said he was bipartisan coming out of the military. Voted for Gore in 2000 but, like any American, had a vested interest in the Bush administration doing well. Essentially said he isn't happy over all of Bush' fuck ups. He doesn't delight in them. We NEED our government to do well.

That said, Clark said the country has become a very different place since spring 2001.

[sfecap]

8. Did he answer the question as to why he praised the very

people who have screwed the country?

No, he didn't.

I thought his answer was a non answer, filled with bullshit platitudes...but at least he worked the military angle into it.

[wyldwolf]

14. Yes he did...

...he said, and the quotes confirm, that he knew these people prior. He knew them individually.

These quotes were made BEFORE they screwed the country.

[sfecap]

18. Not according to the person who asked him.

The quotes were made prior.

The quotes from Salon re Wolfowitz, et al were made a couple of months ago...

[wyldwolf]

23. You have spoken to the person who asked Clark that question?

?

The quotes were made at the fundraising dinner in 2001. If I'm wrong, show me a link?

[sfecap]

27. No. I heard the question.

And I heard the answer.

[wyldwolf]

30. The title of your post #18 is "Not according to the person who asked him."

So, again, have you spoken to the person that asked Clark? How else would you know that Clark's answer wasn't good enough for him?

Oh, a guess! Hmmmm. Ok. :eyes:

And I'm waiting for a source of the claim you made concerning the quotes.

Shall I contunue waiting or are you going to ignore that exchange and pretend it never happenned?

[sfecap]

38. What "source" are you waiting for?

The individual read Clark his own quotes, complete with dates. The dates, as the questioner pointed out, were AFTER bushco began to ravage our country and Iraq. He was curious as to why in light of the bushco history, Clark felt compelled to praise him and his pals.

Watch it again. It's on later tonight.

For the quotes in Salon, do the search yourself. That's what search functions are for.

[wyldwolf]

41. You said...

"The quotes were made prior. The quotes from Salon re Wolfowitz, et al were made a couple of months ago..."

The burden of proof is on you. You made the allegation

[sfecap]

46. Oh...you want the Salon quote? Here you go...

(From "Gen. Wesley Clark Unplugged" , an interview with Jake Tapper.
Salon, March 23, 2003.)



Tapper: Of the people who are running this war, from Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and Powell on down, in terms of the political appointees, are there are any who you particularly like who you would work with again, hypothetically, in some ...

Clark: I like all the people who are there. I've worked with them before. I was a White House Fellow in the Ford administration when Secretary Rumsfeld was White House chief of staff and later Secretary of Defense, and Dick Cheney was the deputy chief of staff at the White House and later the chief.

Paul Wolfowitz I've known for many, many years. Steve Hadley at the White House is an old friend. Doug Feith I worked with very intensively during the time we negotiated the Dayton Peace Agreement; he was representing the Bosnian Muslims then, along with Richard Perle. So I like these people a lot. They're not strangers. They're old colleagues.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/24/clark/

The other quote I referred to was from the erson whi asked the question...watch CSPAN later or get a transcript..

In any event it is quite clear that Clark likes the folks in the bush cabal, and would even consider working with these fine folks again. Support whomever you like, but I have a serious distrust of anyone who seems to consider the likes of the people mentioned above friends. It just proves to me that Clark is not what he'd like us to believe he is. YMMV.

[wyldwolf]

50. Ah, yes...

I once met Rush Limbaugh at a National Association of Broadcasters convention.

I like him very much. But not his politics.

I work on cars sometimes with my father-in-law, who is a republican. I like him very much. Respect him a lot, too.

Show me in your quote where Clark would consider working with these fine folks again?

That is just speculation.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

54. No, but you could be so kind as to point out the passage that says..

..or implies that he would work for them again. You know, for the others here who think you took liberties with the article's words.

And if not liking those guys is you litmus test for what makes a democrat, well, that is just you!

[Tinoire]

62. I posted that part above but here it is again from March 2003

March 2003

Of the people who are running this war, from Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and Powell on down, in terms of the political appointees, are there are any who you particularly like who you would work with again, hypothetically, in some ...

I like all the people who are there. I've worked with them before. I was a White House Fellow in the Ford administration when Secretary Rumsfeld was White House chief of staff and later Secretary of Defense, and Dick Cheney was the deputy chief of staff at the White House and later the chief.

(Deputy Secretary of Defense) Paul Wolfowitz I've known for many, many years. (Deputy National Security Advisor) Steve Hadley at the White House is an old friend. (Under Secretary of Defense for Policy) Doug Feith I worked with very intensively during the time we negotiated the Dayton Peace Agreement; he was representing the Bosnian Muslims then, along with (Pentagon advisor) Richard Perle. So I like these people a lot. They're not strangers. They're old colleagues.



<snip>

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/24/clark/print.html

[revcarol]

65. And the Bushies WEREN'T screwing the country over since the selection?

He has his nerve running for President as a Democrat, since he just recently woke up!!

[bowens43]

26. So he had poor judgment.

Most of us knew that these folks were slime BEFORE they screwed the country.

[genius]

5. He's sounding a little like Dean

I would think that Dean people would find that acceptable.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. lol

Clark and Dean can split the 'centrist' vote

[sfecap]

11. Actually, he's just stealing Dean's stuff...

LOL.

Maybe he'll start sounding like Kucinich next...

(You'd like that, right?)

[Pez]

44. like dean's evolving opinion? oh wait i mean changing diagnosis? or, um...

...tossing out bad theories?

i'd think dean would pat clark on the back for his ability to form new opinions.

[Kahuna]

56. LOL! Wooooooooo!

:yourock:

But Dean would have denied saying it at all. }(

[MuseRider]

9. Well....

Personally I like Clark. With the maladministration we have now it is not hard for me to believe that someone could jump wholeheartedly into the Democratic party. However, I would certainly feel much better if he was a dem for a little longer and had something to prove himself as a democrat. This is the presidency he is running for and as much as I would like to trust him I just can't yet. He is, however, very new to this game. If he can't play it yet he can always try again.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. As a newcomer to the party, he would be a good choice for Sec of Defense

[Meshuga]

21. Clark is proud to be a liberal...

...unlike DEAN! Here is part of the transcript from Bill Maher's HBO show when he interviewed Clark:

MAHER: Right. A lot of the – you know, they all talk about the military. Very few of them served like “hm-hm.” I want to – I want to read you a quote, because I’m not saying whether you’re going to get into this or not, but Howard Dean, who is apparently the front runner now for the Democrats, he said last week, he said, “In Vermont, politics is much further to the left.” He said, “A Vermont centrist is an American liberal.”

And then his campaign manager came out and said, “That’s not an admission he’s a liberal.” Which, quite frankly, pissed me off. Because somehow they hijacked that word, “liberal.”

Now, you’re a Democrat. You said that last week.

CLARK: Absolutely.

MAHER: Okay. I’m just – I’m just wondering, of all the people who has the credentials to say, “liberal” is not a bad word, I’m wondering if I could get you to say that.

CLARK: Well, I’ll say it right now.

MAHER: Good for you.

CLARK: We live in a liberal democracy.

MAHER: Right.

CLARK: That’s what we created in this country. That’s our—

MAHER: That’s right. Thank you.

CLARK: That’s in our Constitution. Let me follow on this, okay? I think we should be very clear on this. You know, this country was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment.

MAHER: Right.

CLARK: It was the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues. It wasn’t founded on the idea that someone would get stuck by a divine inspiration and know everything right from wrong. I mean, people who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, in dialogue, in civil discourse. We can’t lose that in this country. We’ve got to get it back.

Here is the link: http://www.safesearching.com/billmaher/print/t_hbo_realtime_090503.htm

[wyldwolf]

24. Don't you know that doesn't matter...

Clark doesn't pass some of these people's purity test.

They're the "if my candidate doesn't get nominated I'm not voting at all" crowd.

[Meshuga]

25. What a shame...

I'm not a Clark supporter but it amuses me to see the Dean people desperately scared of Clark. They know that Dean is as done as fried chicken.

[wyldwolf]

34. Yep! Stick a fork in him!

And you're right, only the Dean people are frothing at the mouth over Clark. The funniest ones are the ones who say they're not Dean people.

[bowens43]

29. nonsense.

Just because we (with good reason) question your guy's credibility doesn't make us a member of the "if my candidate doesn't get nominated I'm not voting at all" crowd. I haven't decided who to support but I will vote for the Dem nominee in the general election.

If by purity test, you mean a verifiable record of supporting Democrats and the Democratic platform, you're right, he doesn't pass. All we have his word and for some of us, for many of us, that's not enough.

[wyldwolf]

33. Do you decide what is a verifiable record and what the passing score is?

.. I mean, other than for yourself - which will probably be set just out of Clark's reach.

[bowens43]

36. How about ANY verifiable support of Democrats and our platform?

So far all we have seen is his support of Republicans and his flip flop on the war issue. He is very evasive when confronted with this issue. IMO he's an opportunist who will do or say anything to get the presidency. By his own admission , he would have been a republican if they had wanted him. We don't need him but he sure as hell needs us.

[wyldwolf]

37. You've been out of the loop, haven't you?

If you spent a little time in General Discussion, you'd know this issue has been put to bed.

He campaigned for and donated to Erskine Bowles, Max Cleland, and for democratic candidates in New Hampshire and California during the 2002 Congressional elections.

As for your "admission" claim, Clark said it was a joke.

What, you believe he said it but won't believe his explanation of it?

Are you picking and choosing his quotes now?

[Larkspur]

63. No, I won't go home an pout of Clark steals the nomination

I will do whatever I can to undermine his credibility as a candidate, though.

[mmonk]

64. Let's not go Rove

I wonder if these plants like the one that was in Iowa are going to try and be at all Clark town meetings and such. If so, the Dems (of which I am) can't accuse Rove of dirty politics without being hypocritical.

[billbuckhead]

28. He's of the few American politicians who doesn't see liberal as a curse wo

Dean Quixote has moved to middle with a vengence and now repudiates the "L" word at every opportunity. Besides it would take Howard a few years to find his way around Washington D.C., when Wes already knows his way not only around the Pentagon but the White House.

[sandnsea]

43. Oh yippee yippee

I've been saying this for months and months. This is exactly what every Democrat needs to be pounding into the heads of every American. Liberalism is using information and reason to make decisions; not dogma, religious or otherwise. I hope Clark says it again and again.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

35. NO! It's not TRUE! boo hoo! I have PROOF Clark is a republican...

..somewhere! It's around here... damn, I just saw it... or someone told me... or something... mommy...?

[sfecap]

40. LOL.

Why elect Clark when we already have a rethug?

Didn't Dems learn anything in 2002?

[wyldwolf]

42. Right! So when Clark gets the nod...

...go home and pout.

[sfecap]

47. No, I'll just go to my house in Italy....

I've had enough of rethugs in DC.

LOL

[Pez]

48. or better yet...

...you could surf the wave of newfound political zeal that is supposedly sweeping the nation and rally the grassroots to vote the rethugs out of washington.

or is it all really a fad?

[Kahuna]

58. LOL! You're..

coming up with some very good comebacks tonight.
:yourock:

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

32. I just watched it

and I have to agree...he totally dodged the question, which was that bush* had already talked about trickle down economics and other lame stuff when Clark had made those remarks, so why did he say those things about bush*? He never answered it.

I also paid very close attention to the education question, since I am a teacher. I had read something he had said that I loved, saying that teachers needed more authority and emphasized their importance in our society. But he could not answer the question about NCLB with any specific answers. It told me that he only has a superficial understanding of the problem (i.e. he said it is unfunded, but didn't talk about it's inherent faults), and said what anyone would say..."I think education is important and we need to give more resources to the schools blah blah blah" (obviously not an exact quote). He is saying what he knows is popular, but doesn't really understand the issue with any depth. I'm thinking that it's not just the education isue that he has this problem with.

[dfong63]

49. how did this compare, in your opinion, to Bush I's promise

... to be "the education president"?

[burr]

52. How???

the less sorry of two wrong answers.

[Upfront]

55. How Did Dean Answer?

I know he got into what the problems are.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

57. LOL well if you're comparing to bush*

bush* loses. Thank goodness I have more choices than that!

[burr]

39. not very impressive...

His statement on healthcare, that we should cover kids younger than 18 and people older than 55, sounded like the same kind of lame non-answer Gore would of given. I am sick of candidates talking about taxcuts and tax credits to stimulate growth, the only thing more taxcuts will grow are future taxes and the debt. His support of "preemptive" strikes by Israel is sick, especially when they are the only nuclear power in the middle-east and receive much of our foreign aid. They can strike Syria without justification, but Syria cannot strike back and would never be allowed to develop nuclear weapons for self-defense. One of his most arrogant statements came at the end, when claiming that "I waged a war in Bosnia for the Islamic faith."

If that was his perception, no wonder he was sacked! This operation existed to end war and ethnic cleaning, not to take sides in it. To make this type of statement shows that he either approves of religious warfare, or felt he was fighting a war of his own in what should have been a peacekeeping operation. Finally, Clark failed to explain any interesting reforms that would establish national healthcare or make our system of government democratic.

[SWPAdem]

45. Your totally unbiased opinion, I suppose?

n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

51. Oh My God!

The horror!

I'm changing my vote!

If he gets the nomination we'll all have to vote for Shrub, eh?

He's just not a good enough Democrat for our vote, is he?

[snoochie]

66. Not An Issue

Just had to clear this up... assuming that he did say this, it's really not an issue. He's right that countries are entitled to pre-emptive attacks / defense, because...

'Pre-emptive' refers to attacks based on evidence that you are about to be attacked.

'Preventive' attacks are based on the possibility that you may be attacked in the future. (What the illegal Iraq invasion was - and why it was illegal.)

Mixing up these two terms -- another accomplishment of the neo-cons and the idiot media whores.

[eileen_d]

67. Pathetic

Criticizing a candidate for what he DIDN'T say. What would be your ideal answer?

"I hereby forbid the following ladies and gentlemen from joining the Democratic Party..."

It's easier to imagine Democrats like the original poster making that statement, IMO.

[blm]

68. whatever happened with this, sfecap?

,

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfecap]

70. MrWiggles...

You are fairly new here, I see. Welcome.

May I respectfully suggest that you spend some time watching the fun here before you make judgements?