New National Poll (WSJ) puts Dean at top

[RevolutionStartsNow]

With MOE, Dean is essentially tied with Clark and Lieberman.

And of course it's a national poll, though it is of Democrats and Non-Dems who said they would vote in the Primary (rather than just registered voters).

Interesting: Clark appears to be taking support from Lieberman the most, then Gep and Kerry.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

[Kahuna]

1. You ever notice The WSJ polls are never touted as being..

particulary credible. Their results always seem to be inconsistent with polls taken during the same period. The WSJ are bigger shills for the GOP than FAUX.

I'm not saying that I don't believe that Clark and Dean could be tied. I believe that part. The part I don't believe is that all of a sudden bush is now winning in a head to head with our candidates and by wide margins. Which is the total opposite of what the Gallup poll of less than a week ago shows.

[VermontDem2004]

5. Why do you support Clark?

I clicked on Clark04.com but I can't find a single link on where he stands on the issues, I went to his Draftclark website awhile back and the issues they listed for him were breif public statements he made. What is his plan to revive the economy, what his stance on the Tax Cuts, will he repeal all of them? How will he improve the health care system, education, and other issues that matter to me? I am not anti-Clark, but I don't know enough about him to be anti-Clark.

[seamarq]

8. Clarks plan on the Bush tax cuts and jobs creation are posted at:

http://www.clark04.com/release_02.php

You must not have been to the site in a couple of days...

[blm]

29. WSJ and NBC use the same pollsters.

Guess who?

Now, why does Luntz favor Dean so much?

[sham]

33. right. it didn't go your way, so it's biased.

I have seen some of your other posts, and the polls are never biased when the go your way, are they?

you can't have it both ways.

[booksenkatz]

2. Lieberman

Why does he keep hanging around the room like a bad fart? When is he going to fall off the chart so we can get down to business?
:wtf:

[VermontDem2004]

3. I estimate there is about 1,000 people that took that poll

That is one tiny drop in a bucket compared to the millions that vote in primaries, it is the opinion of 1,000 randomly selected people, not the entire nation.

[Vikingking66]

24. the idea behind polling is that

1000 random people will represent the opinion of the larger group.
Are you saying you completely reject the idea of statistical sampling?

[VermontDem2004]

27. I reject it

because 1,000 people who I don't even know don't represent my opinion. It costs money and it is useless and don't mean anything. 1,000 people will just represent the opinion of the 1,000 people who took the poll.

[CMT]

4. Dean moved from third place to first

From 12% in July to 17%. Lieberman lost nine-points going from 25% to 16%, Kerry lost three-points, and Gep lost three.

[molly]

6. The most significant poll is the poll

indicating which candidate(s) can beat w.

[Edmundo]

7. You are right...

And from the polls I've seen so far Kerry and Clark are the candidates with best chances of accomplishing that.

[seventhson]

12. You are NOT serious

Kerry is hands down tanking and is Bush lite.

So is Clark (or actually he might be more like Bush Ice - MORE militaristic and corporate and more competent at being that to boot)

The polls show somwe interesting things

1. Dean is leading

2. Dean is gaining support faster than anyone else

3. Dean is the MOST recognized contender among democrats who are following the race


Also, accrding to a report linked at Drudge, Dean has raised the most cash.

[molly]

16. I guess that's why the latest

CNN polls have either Clark or Kerry beating w. No mention of Dean.

[Vikingking66]

25. Dean's w/in the margin of error, net difference of two whole points

between him and Clark or Kerry. Ditto with Lieberman and Gephardt.

[sham]

35. are you serious?

how can you say "no mention of Dean"? ALL of the candidates were "mentioned" in the poll. GMAFB.
:eyes:

[PAMod]

44. Dean, Clark & Kerry are TIED with Bush in that poll

All are within the margin of error.

[polpilot]

19. A poll is not necessary to gauge the Dean trajectory. ALL Dean

supporters need to take a lesson from Dean & campaign and not waste time on the fringe supporters of the 'also rans'. Dean focuses on the end journey and the inauguration.

If Dean's poll numbers were HALF of what they are today his campaign would have been a stunning success. His #'s today are evidence of the deep dissatisfaction with the current democratic politicians and particularly with the demos who have participated in the demise of our country.

Dean '04...The New Democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party.

[Edmundo]

20. I am serious...

Kerry and Clark would fair better against Bush than Dean would. I'm not talking about the Democratic nomination. I'm talking about the general election.

BTW, Dean WAS leading and WAS gaining support. Not anymore...

[sham]

36. is this thread supposed to be comedy?

Dean is WELL within the MOE, just a few points behind the "frontrunners." And check the new polls out today. He's LEADING. So go ahead and declare him DOA. I'll be laughing my ass off in Jan. 05.

[seventhson]

9. Burns your biscuits that Dean is the BEST, doesn't it?

Dean will make toast of Bush too.

Stray out of planes, Howard, Please.

Support Amtrak and sit in the BACK, okay?

Remember Wellstone.

I remember RFK

[molly]

11. YAWN

:boring:

[w4rma]

42. Dean gained 9 points on Bush since the last WSJ poll

9/03
Bush: 48
Dean: 35

7/03
Bush: 52
Dean: 30

Compare to Lieberman and Clark:
9/03
Bush: 52
Lieberman: 35
7/03
Bush: 51
Lieberman: 32

9/03
Bush: 45
Clark: 38
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen.htm

[seamarq]

10. it looks like that poll was taken on 9/03...the subsequent poll...

showing Clark leading is from 9/19-21.

[seventhson]

13. Not

check it again. This AFTER Clark's entry

[virtualobserver]

14. the 03 is 2003 n/t

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seamarq]

18. Point taken....

sorry...first cup of coffee this morning...sheesh, maybe you should cut down!

[Larkspur]

21. The real poll to watch is Dean's fundraising stats

That is a better indicator of support for Dean than the polls of a thousand randomly selected people, who may or may not vote in the primaries.

Dean has already beaten Clinton's single quarter fundraising drive, a feat done when Clinton was a sitting president. Dean did it as a underdog in a crowded field. That shows that Dean is as much of a master politician as Clinton was, if not better.

[DJcairo]

22. I don't think so. Money is not everything. If it were you'd vote for W.

If the candidate with the most money always wins then we might as well resign ourselves to 4 more years of Bush. The pointis we're still 4 months ou from teh first primary and that's a political lifetime. Dean seized a message and a moment that had wide appeal among anti-war dems and he has turned that into a successful fundraising drive. However, the issues will become more and more important as the campaign progresses. State voters in Iowa and NH will be more and more curious as to where Dean actually stands on issues. As of yet, he's unveiled no more than soundbites of a domestic agenda. Kerry has been making substnative policy speeches in addition to his campaign stump speeches. At the VFW in Texas last month about veterns' affairs and just recently at an economic conference in Detroit. He also gave a very lengthy interview to Grist magazine where he clearly spells out his environmental policy and offers highlights from his long record as a public servatn in defending the environment.
http://www.gristmagazine.com/maindish/kerry092303.asp

[MercutioATC]

23. Actually, that's a matter of opinion.

Kerry started higher in the polls than Dean in Iowa and NH. Dean now polls in a statistical tie if not ahead of Kerry. I agree that much can happen before the primaries, but Dean's positions seem to be resonating with quite a few voters. I'm supporting him because he's NOT all "sound bites", but has what I consider to be well-thought-out solutions.

[VermontDem2004]

28. hahaha

Everytime I see Dean on tv talking to a crowd he outlines his plans for 2004-2008 very clearly. It is not a bunch of soundbites of a domestic agenda, either you haven't been paying alot of attention, or your dislike of Dean prevents you from saying something good about Dean?

[Larkspur]

30. Raising money in the Dem Primary in a crowed field is proof

of People-powered Howard's status in the crowded field. Beating Clinton's single quarter fundraising record is absolute proof that Dean is the front runner. Remember, Clinton did that as a sitting President and with the help of those that could afford to pay thousands of dollars. Dean broke that record with the help of small donations from a dedicated band of citizens disgusted with Bush and with the current Dem leadership.

Howard Dean, the darkest horse last year, has out raised the more well known Dem senators by bringing new people into the political process and many of those new people have never donated to a campaign before. This is how Bush will be beat. Dean's army is growing and all those small donations will overpower the Mayberry Machiavelis.

[PAMod]

31. Candidates behind in the polls who can't raise money tend to go away

Money is the mother's milk of politics.

And, yes, Dumbya's war chest is a huge problem. We need a candidate that can, if not match it, keep us in the neighborhood. Otherwise we'll get rolled.

Senator Kerry is an outstanding American - but he needs to start raising huge sums of money.

[JaneQPublic]

26. Clark's polling varies depending on if "General" is in front of his name

I heard this in a political discussion on NPR's "All Things Considered" yesterday (I believe it came from E.J. Dionne).

Apparently Clark does really well in polls when they put "General" in front of his name, and not so well without it.

As I asked on another thread, I wonder if Howard Dean would get a similar bump in the polls if they put "Governor" in front of his name and "M.D." after.

[sham]

38. LOL! nice catch.

Something I had been wondering about myself.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. I've said it about the Newsweek poll and I'll say it about this one.

Virtually meaningless.

NH, IA and SC polls are the ones to watch. At this point in time national polls are only good for gauging Chimps performance. He is the only one known to all the pollees. The important number there is re-elect, not head-to-head.



For more of my rationale: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=391308 , not that anyone would care.

[CMT]

34. I tend to agree

since lead nationally has fluctuated between Lieberman, Gephardt, Dean, and Clark--it is very competitive.

Was happy as a Dean supporter though to see Dean leading by 12-points in a new NH poll out today.

[jbw121]

37. Look at this

https://contribute.johnkerry.com/?team=0032

[sham]

39. bravo!

nice contribution to the discussion. :thumbsup:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. The only "contribution" that's going to happen.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

40. For God's sake, why!?!

You look at it! :evilgrin:

[jbw121]

43. https://contribute.johnkerry.com/?team=0032

I did.

And it's shocking stuff.