Kerry Throws Down The Gauntlet To Dean

[DrFunkenstein]

Dean is sick of Kerry saying things behind his back, so Kerry said on Face The Nation they can debate anytime and anywhere. He even gave specific scenarios where they could have it - one on one.

Ball's in Dean's court now.

<>

[renie408]

1. Totally Random Comment

This is stupid, but isn't John Edwards cute?? Christ, he looks like a frigging Pepsodent ad.

[molly]

3. Edwards looks like my nephew!

[sugarcookie]

49. His response is posted on the Blog

http://www.blogforamerica.com

edit: Apologies...I replied to the wrong post. Meant to reply to the original post

[dsc]

2. arrogant beyond words

We currently have a four way tie among our candidates for two of them to debate each other would be utterly arrogant.

[blm]

5. If Dean is going to throw out challenges he better be able to accept

the answer. The interviewer hit Kerry with Dean's words, and Kerry did the smart thing and played them to his political advantage. This is an election, isn't it?

[dsc]

7. Dean was referring to general debates

as in the one they had just finished when he said that. The other candidates have every bit as much right to be on the stage as Kerry and Dean. Unless, Kerry thinks he is better than them.

[molly]

11. Well, Dean thru out the challenge and Kerry accepted

Face the Nation has agreed to host it.

[babzilla]

28. actually the host threw out the challenge

Scheiffer brought up a Dean quote that he wished Kerry had criticized him to his face in the scheduled debate instead of floating the criticisms out in the media.

I think Kerry made a mistake by rising to Scheiffer's obvious bait. That's another thing I like about Dean, he doesn't play along with the pundit's gotcha games.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. Rising To The Bait Would Be Continuing Dean's Trash Talk

But since this is not the WWF, Kerry made a great political move and a ballsy one at that.

[babzilla]

42. Kerry made a typical Kerry political move

Whether it was great remains to be seen.

I see it as further evidence that he feels entitled to be set apart from the other candidates. It plays right into the conventional wisdom that the press is trying to foment upon him. No it's not the WWF but its not a tea party either. I hear even Kerry doesn't go in for crying into teacups.

Once an elegant Brahmin, always an elegant Brahmin I suppose.

[molly]

14. Did he tell you that?

I'm sure Kerry would debate ANYONE of them that gave him a one-on-one challenge.

[blm]

20. Dean's challenge was to Kerry.

He accused him of something and Kerry is open to accepting a full discussion between them.

[virtualobserver]

24. rather than have nine people on a stage.....

I think that they should have a series of one on ones.

Dean vs Kerry
Mosely-Braun vs Dean
Sharpton vs Kerry

Lieberman vs Reality

I think that it would be a better discussion.

[Nicholas_J]

56. Where did Dean state that he was refering to

The general debates. Is there direct wording to this effect, or is this a personal observation?

[Demobrat]

4. So it's down to Kerry and Dean now?

Have the others been informed?

[tsipple]

6. Apparently Kerry's Ahead in the Iowa Polls...

...Oh, wait. Sorry, I guess there's this guy Gephardt.

[DrFunkenstein]

8. I Sense Hesitancy From The Dean People

I personally would love to watch Dean demonstrate why he is the better candidate. He has been constrained by the 9 candidate format, and really should do a better job of getting his positive message out. He has a chance to bury Kerry once and for all. If he did, the nomination would be his for the taking.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

9. Hesitant? Not me, I say,

Bring it on!

The only thing I would be hesitant about is excluding the other candidates and alienating their supporters. Seems a bit arrogant, but I suppose if it weren't done as an actual debate, just both appearing on the same show, for example, it might be acceptable to the others.

One of the biggest problems right now is that there are so many candidates and the debates aren't very effective. I certainly don't think any candidate should concede this early, with so many undecideds, but it does create a problem.

[Nicholas_J]

22. Well I hear you talking, but Kerry wasnt asking you

Where is that fire in the belly guy...come on Howard, say something.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

25. Sheesh

Wasn't this just this morning??

[dsc]

10. the hesitancy is that we feel

the other candidates shouldn't be disrepected. It should be noted that by at least some measures Gephardt is actually ahead of Kerry. He is leading Iowa it should be noted.

[Demobrat]

12. I'd love it too.

But what I can see happening is the press focusing on the format, the fireworks and the other candidate's reactions before and after rather than on the real policy differences between them.
Maybe after a few more candidates drop out a Kerry/Dean debate would make sense. I for one would buy tickets.

[dsc]

13. It gets even better

On ABC's this Week there is a new poll which shows the following. Lieberman 22, Dean 14, Kerry 14, Gephardt 14. So Kerry is leading in no early state, is not leading nationally, yet he wants a one on one debate. He owes Lieberman an apology.

[DrFunkenstein]

15. Gulp

What's the matter...scared?



(Sorry I'm just trying to get around to using all the smilies)

[dsc]

16. Yeah

I don't want to alienate the supporters of all the other candidates. None of the four in that poll has any business trying to set up one on one debates. Kerry should know better and I sincerly hope Dean does.

[peaceandjustice]

59. what's the big deal?

I think a Kerry-Dean debate is an excellent idea, and if Dick Gephardt and Joe Lieberman don't like it they can meet one-on-one for a debate themselves. I'd love to see dozens of different debates up until the Democrats choose a nominee. What a contrast that would be to the rampant secrecy of the Bush administration.

[dsc]

60. among other things

the precedent for future primaries is god awful. Imagine if the handful of frontrunners could have excluded Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton, CMB, and Graham from all debates. If we allow a one on one debate now this would be a real possibility. Instread of 5 pro war and 4 anti war candidates we would have had 5 pro war ones. Instread of 8 men and 1 women we would have had 5 men. Instead of 7 whites and two blacks we would have had 5 whites. Instead of an ambassador, two governors, two Congressmen, six Senators, and a former VP nominee we would have had 4 Senators, 1 Congressman, and a former VP nominee. Think of the issues that would have been ignored. Think of the great moments that would have been missed. The precident alone is terrible.

[DrFunkenstein]

17. Let's Roll the Tape On The Original Comments

Dean Says He Has to Watch His Mouth

"I do have a mouth on me," the former Vermont governor said aboard a small charter plane taking him here from Albuquerque, N.M., site of the first major debate of the 2004 race.

"That is, I generally say what I think so I get in trouble," Dean said.

Could he hurt himself? "If I blew up in a debate or something like that, yes," Dean said. "But I haven't done that in 16 years of debates."

Dean said he is learning to let irksome questions from reporters roll off his back, adding that it's actually easier to keep his cool with the national media than it was in Vermont, where reporters had greater access to him.

"I can get snippy," he said, "no doubt about it."

Less than an hour later, Dean was visiting his new campaign headquarters where he fielded more than a dozen questions at an impromptu news conference. As aides pulled him inside, Dean was asked whether he was surprised that rival John Kerry (search) did not criticize him in Thursday's debate.

"I wish he'd say to my face what he says behind my back," Dean said before disappearing behind the door.

Kerry had obviously gotten under his skin.

Before leaving Arizona for California, Dean realized he had unintentionally created news with his crack about Kerry.

"I just wish he had given me a chance to respond to all that stuff — the zero experience on foreign affairs, the NRA stuff, the tax cut stuff," Dean said. In a television interview Sunday, Kerry suggested Dean was not ready to be commander in chief, linked him to the National Rifle Association and criticized him for wanting to repeal all of President Bush's tax cuts.

"I would have liked to have responded to that in person," Dean said, relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry.

Edit to supply link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96574,00.html

[dsc]

18. In the general debate

which is where it should be. The other candidates have earned the right to be on that stage.

[molly]

19. Well, I'm sure Kerry would agree to a one-on-one with

any of them - how about your guy?

[dsc]

32. I would hope not

We have nine candidates, not two, running for President. Each and every one of those candidates deserve the respect of the others. Maybe Kerry doesn't believe that the blacks represented by Sharpton and CMB, the women by CMB, the laborers by Kucinich and Gephardt, the Southerners by Graham and Edwards, or the Jews by Lieberman warrent a place in our primaries but I sure do.

[TLM]

39. Of course he would... his campaign is going down the shitter.

he needs any attention he can get at this point. i mean the poor SOB lost points in the polls after his big coming out speach in front of the aricraft carrier.

GUess he got that bush light perception going again with a light version of W's aircraft carrier stunt.

[thinkahead]

26. Love how FoxNews tries to create discord

"relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry"
"Kerry had obviously gotten under his skin"

glad to know they know the inner workings of Dean's thoughts. Thats some great journalism there

[DrFunkenstein]

29. I Used Fox Just To Get This Reaction

It was an AP article by Ron Fournier picked up all over the country, including Fox.

Glad to see people do their homework around here.

[LuminousX]

61. relishing the thought of getting mouthy with Kerry.

Just like to point out that this phrase was the reporter's, not Deans.

[Nicholas_J]

21. Dean should be careful

What he asks, he has gotten it, and now it seems he doesnt want it.

[molly]

23. Have you heard a response from the Dean camp?

[thinkahead]

27. Kerry may get the one on one that he wants

but he's going to have to do a little better than he's doing right now to survive the primaries. I don't sense Dean as being "afraid" of any of the candidates. However, it would not be shrewd politically to alienate any of the voters.

Kerry is clearly desperate.

"Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean".

[DrFunkenstein]

30. Clearly Desperate, Absolutely

<>

Chicken?

[babzilla]

31. any candidate in his right mind would be chicken

because as we all know, say it together now:

Kerry was a debate champ at Yale.

[DrFunkenstein]

36. I Was Thinking More of Kerry-Weld

The 1996 Senate campaign between John Kerry and William Weld was the rarest of events in latter-day American politics: a civil, closely contested, intelligent, and wildly entertaining brawl. "Both candidates were incredibly popular," the Kerry consultant John Marttila said. "Both had sixty-per-cent favorable ratings, and negatives in the twenties. And they maintained their popularity throughout the race."

Both were Brahmins, but Weld, with a shock of strawberry hair and irony to burn, seemed an honorary Hibernian-once again, Kerry was faced with an opponent bound to be favored by the reportorial romantics at the Boston Globe. "We were both comers," recalls Weld, who had just been reelected governor, with seventy-one per cent of the vote. "We were both at the height of our powers. If I'd won that race, I was going to turn straight around and run for President in 2000. I think he was, too-although I guess he eventually decided that Gore had too big a head start."

The campaign began with a remarkable agreement to limit campaign spending, negotiated face to face by the two candidates in Kerry's Beacon Hill mansion. They also agreed to a series of eight debates, some of which would be Lincoln-Douglas style, with the two candidates questioning each other directly, without a mediator. Weld figured that his issues-crime, welfare reform, and tax cutting-and his charm would see him through, but mostly his charm. "John isn't really a cold person, but he does seem aloof," Weld said recently. "The truth is that he's courtly to the point of gentility. We were pummelling him through August, but his campaign turned on a dime when Bob Shrum was hired as his consultant. It went from flaccid to sharp in a week."

Kerry's aides insist that it was more than Shrum. They say that Kerry was distracted in Washington, that he didn't really focus on the campaign until the Senate recessed. "It wasn't a lack of focus," Kerry says. "It was a strategy. I figured people wouldn't really be paying attention until the fall debates."

The last four debates were fabulous political theatre-two very smart men having at each other. "John's at his best under pressure, when he's being seriously challenged," Paul Nace, an old Navy friend, says. "He gets really cool, very calm. He really is a warrior-he just loves it. I took one look at him as he was walking into Faneuil Hall for one of the last debates and I thought, Bill Weld has no idea what's about to hit him."

Weld-who calls the debates a "bloody draw"-says that Kerry successfully attached him to the national Republican Party. (Weld had said some embarrassingly positive things about Newt Gingrich two years earlier.) "The turning point came when he asked me if I'd vote to keep Jesse Helms as the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. That was a killer."

I asked Weld how he responded. "I ducked it, of course," he said, with a smile. "I mean, I hated Jesse Helms. But what could I do?"

Kerry won the election by eight percentage points. "John has always been underestimated politically," Marttila says. "But that race had the quality and intensity of a Presidential campaign, and he won. I don't see how they can underestimate him anymore, but they probably will."

[molly]

37. A president needs to be quick on his feet - instant knowledge

access - no hmmms and hawwwwwws and I don't know.

[babzilla]

38. "It went from flaccid to sharp in a week"

Thanks Dr., I just won a bet. Either I have a sixth sense or some folks are rather predictable.

Oh how I yearn for those glorious Brahmin days. When comers where comers and you could be an honerary-hibernian once again, as long as the romantic reportorials didn't mind too much.

"It wasn't a lack of focus," Kerry says. "It was a strategy. I figured people wouldn't really be paying attention until the fall debates."

Hark, what was that noise? Surely not the sound of a strategy breaking. More likely the wheels of the long-distance bike just needing some oil.

Weld-who calls the debates a "bloody draw"-says that Kerry successfully attached him to the national Republican Party. (Weld had said some embarrassingly positive things about Newt Gingrich two years earlier.)

Did someone say attaching to Gingrich? How'd Gephardt get ahold of the bloody draw secrets.

[TheDonkey]

33. Good idea, sounds like Dean supporters are getting scared?

It's not like this replaces a national debate, so all 9 canidates will have their time. But I'd rather see a one on one between canidates to disscuss each other than can. bashing during the national debate like Liberman vs Dean on FOX.

This is just a tv news talk show, I'm sure if other canidates agreed upon it they could do it as well. But Dean definetly asked for a personal debate so Kerry's ready to go.

I'd be interested in seeing how it turns out.

[babzilla]

34. when did Dean definitely ask for a personal debate?

Scheiffer brought up a quote from Dean where he said he wished Kerry had criticized him to his face in the scheduled debate that had just passed instead of talking about him to the press.

This is turning into a game of telephone. Did you hear? Lean wants Dairy in a ton-on-ton rebate.

[DrFunkenstein]

35. Lol

You reminded me of a great gag from Johnny Dangerously.

[babzilla]

45. You're a Piscopo fan?

I'm really beginning to doubt your funkiness.

[Egnever]

41. Hahahah kerry is desperate

Bring him on I say.

However i dont think it would be a good move for Dean, simply because he holds the lead right now. Why should he do anything that might help promote another candidate.

I find it hilarious that kerry thinks hes a tough guy. Cant wait till clark gets in the race so kerry will just go away.

[molly]

43. I find it hilarious that Dean cannot hold his own

on a talk show - how's he going to do against a Yale debate champ?

[thinkahead]

47. Kerry may be a master debater

But, I dost think you Kerry folks "misunderestimate" Dean. Kerry's ability to argue a point certainly hasn't translated into support in the primaries. Dean has held his own in the debates, and we'll most likely get to see how he does one-on-one with the establishment candidate, once you folks have sorted that all out.

Besides, being good at debate just means you are good at arguing a point to death - it doesn't necessarily mean you are right. For example, Kerry certainly does a good job of arguing that his vote to give the President blanket authority to do his bidding in Iraq was somehow a wise thing. I admire his skill at spinning that. Doesn't make it right.

[babzilla]

48. Kerry may have lost his debating chops

In every debate so far in this cycle, Kerry hasn't been able to keep his answer within the designated time frame. It is sloppy form to go over the bell.

I'm sure if a Yale debate judge was scoring this year's debates there would be major points taken off for that.

In the last debate Dean was very impressive in his ability to finish his argument right on the bell even though they had a very restrictive 60 second limit.

[Egnever]

55. you mean like this?

(Videotape, October 9, 2002):
SEN. KERRY: Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating agents and is capable of quickly producing weaponizing of a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery on a range of vehicles, such as bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers and covert operatives which would bring them to the United States itself.
In addition, we know they are developing unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering chemical and biological warfare agents.
According to the CIA’s report, all U.S. intelligence experts agree that they are seeking nuclear weapons. There is little question that Saddam Hussein wants to develop them.
In the wake of September 11, who among us can say with any certainty to anybody that the weapons might not be used against our troops or against allies in the region? Who can say that this master of miscalculation will not develop a weapon of mass destruction even greater, a nuclear weapon?
(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Unmanned aerial vehicles...
SEN. KERRY: Sure.
MR. RUSSERT: ...a nuclear threat. Those are exactly the things that you suggested in New Hampshire President Bush had lied to you about.
SEN. KERRY: That’s precisely the point. That is exactly the point I’m making. We were given this information by our intelligence community. Now, either it was stretched politically in the many visits of Dick Cheney to the CIA and the way in which they created a client relationship, but the information we were given, built on top of the seven and a half years of what we knew he was doing, completely justified the notion that you had to respond to give the president the right to put inspectors in. The president said
when he put them in “War is not inevitable.” Colin Powell said to us, “The only rationale for going to war was weapons of mass destruction,” and it was legitimate to hold Saddam Hussein accountable to get the inspectors in. I’m saying to you that I don’t believe this president did the job of exhausting the remedies available to make us as strong as we should have been in doing that and certainly didn’t do the planning to be able to win the peace in the way that we need to. And I still think we can do it, Tim, but we’ve got to
get about the business of doing it.
MR. RUSSERT: But you had access to the intelligence. You had access to the national intelligence estimate...
SEN. KERRY: Absolutely.
MR. RUSSERT: ...which said the CIA had a low confidence in Saddam Hussein using weapons of mass destruction or transferring the terrorists. And the State Department, which is included in the national intelligence estimate, said there was not a compelling case, that he reconstituted his nuclear program.
SEN. KERRY: I didn’t base it on the nuclear, but the most important and compelling rationale were the lack of inspections and the non-compliance of Saddam Hussein. Even Hans Blix at the United Nations said he is not in compliance.
MR. RUSSERT: Were you misled by the intelligence agencies? Were you duped?
SEN. KERRY: No, we weren’

Glowing example of not holding your own

[DrFunkenstein]

57. You May Disagree With His Decision

But that's a pretty tight argument.

Colin Powell said to us, “The only rationale for going to war was weapons of mass destruction,” and it was legitimate to hold Saddam Hussein accountable to get the inspectors in.

I didn’t base it on the nuclear, but the most important and compelling rationale were the lack of inspections and the non-compliance of Saddam Hussein. Even Hans Blix at the United Nations said he is not in compliance.

How much clearer can Kerry be? Kerry did not believe the threat was imminent, but that given Saddam's history of non-compliance the threat of force (which Clinton himself argued for and used) was appropriate for giving the inspections process meaning - and at that point even existence.

[Egnever]

58. The problem I have with it

I didn’t base it on the nuclear, but the most important and compelling rationale were the lack of inspections and the non-compliance of Saddam Hussein. Even Hans Blix at the United Nations said he is not in compliance.


SEN. KERRY: Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating agents and is capable of quickly producing weaponizing of a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery on a range of vehicles, such as bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers and covert operatives which would bring them to the United States itself.
In addition, we know they are developing unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering chemical and biological warfare agents.
According to the CIA’s report, all U.S. intelligence experts agree that they are seeking nuclear weapons. There is little question that Saddam Hussein wants to develop them.
In the wake of September 11, who among us can say with any certainty to anybody that the weapons might not be used against our troops or against allies in the region? Who can say that this master of miscalculation will not develop a weapon of mass destruction even greater, a nuclear weapon


Honestly DR funk when those two statements are put beside eachother I dont think he could be any more on both sides of this thing

[genius]

44. Debating is not Dean's specialty.

Dean might do better in a boxing match.

[MercutioATC]

46. I don't know...Kerry's got the reach, but Dean has the lower center of

gravity....

[sandnsea]

50. lol

My boys box, smart beats bluster in boxing too.

[sugarcookie]

51. There is a response on the Blog

http://www.blogforamerica.com

I missplaced my first reply so I am reposting.

[janx]

52. The response is perfect, as usual:

http://www.blogforamerica.com




Response to Jim Jordan
Jim Jordan
Campaign Manager
Kerry for President

Dear Jim:

I received and reviewed your letter inviting Governor Dean to participate in a series of one-on-one debates with Senator Kerry at the exclusion of the other seven candidates running for the Democratic nomination.

As you know, there have been and will continue to be numerous forums and debates that will provide the opportunity for each of the candidates to discuss the issues, to debate their ideas and address their differences with Governor Dean – or any other candidate -- directly. In fact, just last week, Representative Kucinich highlighted the difference between his position and that of Dick Gephardt on the pre-emptive war in Iraq. Specifically, he said, “I just want to say that when you were standing there in the Rose Garden with the president and you were giving him advice, I wish that you would have told him no, because as our Democratic leader, your position helped to inform mightily the direction of the war.”

As you may recall, during the debate in New Mexico, Senator Joe Lieberman challenged Governor Dean’s position on trade, saying – correctly or incorrectly – that it would lead to a “Dean Depression.”

Senator Kerry will continue to have ample opportunity to debate the differences between himself and Governor Dean during the upcoming candidate forums in New York, Arizona and Michigan.

Jim, there are nine candidates seeking the Democratic nomination for President – each with his or her own ideas and policies and each with the goal of defeating George Bush next November. For ANY candidate to suggest otherwise is presumptuous.

Governor Dean’s campaign has been about returning democracy to the hands of the American people. We believe it is up to the American people to narrow the field – through the democratic nominating process – and not for any one candidate to subvert this process simply because “that suits us.”

We trust the American people to decide what suits them.

Sincerely,

Joe Trippi

_____________________________________

[RevolutionStartsNow]

53. Janx, thanks for posting this

I also posted it as its own thread, in case people had given up on this thread already.

[Upfront]

54. Yawn