Candidate Bashing in P&C.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

(From a GD post. Thought it was illustrative)

From page one of the "Prejudice & Calumny Forum:"

Dean Campaign Continues To Lie About Other Candidates On Race
Rivals Criticize Dean For Mideast Comment
Dean’s Example, Tennessee, for State with Low Gun Violence was WRONG
AP Analysis: Dean Under Political Scrutiny
Spam Dean Spam!
Edwards criticizes Dean for divisive race remark
Dean attracts new faces to politics -- most of them white
Senior Fellow at Cato Institute Writes "The Appeal of Howard Dean"
DEAN'S COMMENT ON GUN VIOLENCE WAS INACCURATE


Other threads, from page one, bashing other candidates there(here):

There aren't any.

[sfecap]

1. Pretty much sums it up...

The Dean bashing here is way over the top.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. I was worried I might find something from you. LOL.

I understand the temptation, especially in the face of this obvious campaign and have nearly succumbed to it myself, but it says more about the poster than the postees who respond. Keep fighting the good fight.


:toast:

[sfecap]

7. I was tempted. LOL

I just caught a clip of Kerry in Iowa....oh, nevermind! :-)

(Actually I posted my apology the other day...)

[AWD]

33. Dean spit tobacco on a baby today

[MercutioATC]

40. Tobacco harvested by 8-year-olds from Sierra Blanca....

.

[sandnsea]

2. I agree

It's gotten a little over the top today. But I'd bet in those other forums, it's the exact opposite. I haven't been in GD today. But from yesterday. Kerry, the corporate money man. Kerry & Skull & Bones. Kerry and PNAC. Kerry the warmonger. Kerry, the phony war vet. That's off the top of my head. So, you see, it works both ways over the long run.

On edit:

And these things generally have nothing to do with current issues or current campaign blunders. Just dredging up trash to spew.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Although I think the influence of money on politics is a valid issue,

The S&B stuff et. al., leaves a foul taste in my mouth, too.

[blm]

3. You reap what you sow. Complaining NOW after 8 months

of Deanies bashing the other candidates relentlessly?

Disingenuous.

[CMT]

5. bashers come in all shapes and sizes

and campaigns. Even way back when Dean was attacked by other campaigns usually in a dismissive way but it was done.

[blm]

19. Not till 2 months AFTER Dean.

Dean bashed and his supporters applauded and joined in the bashing. The archives are full of bashings of those accused by Dean of being Bushlite and not real Dems like him.

[Cha]

29. I wonder where he got that wild idea from?

[Kolesar]

32. from the green posters?

Hey, I'm joking.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Show me one negative thread that I've ever started.

I once posted an honest IWR thread, for clarification, was criticized and understood why, and have never done so again.

Fact.

[Cha]

8. Look who is being "disingenous". One of the biggest Dean

bashers of all.

[Octafish]

46. blm's posts are accurate and address the issue.

It's Dean who doesn't stand up to close examination. And that must be why so many Dean supporters go bananas at the slightest mention of anything less than glowing about the ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker.

[Cha]

48. And I say they're not!

[Ediacara]

13. oh bullshit and you know it

the Deanies have not been bashing others relentlessly, and to imply that you haven't been bashing Dean for the last 8 months is an out and out lie.

Talk about being diingenuous....

[AWD]

35. Since January, huh???

Go find me several threads from January 11th or earlier in which "Deanies" bash other candidates.

Or are you being disingenuous yourself???

[Octafish]

51. Here's one from January.

Here’s just one example of what blm was talking about (before Jan. 11!). Please read kerryfan's reply (#18):

Open letter to John Kerry from a Vietnam Veteran

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=26087&forum=DCForumID60&archive=yes

And a bonus, with linkage:

"Who else is sick of Kerry Bashing ?"
Jan. 24, 2003.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=30767&forum=DCForumID60&archive=

And a bonus Kerry thread, from way back when:

Rove's Nightmare: If Kerry can attract Imus's audience...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23876&forum=DCForumID60&archive=yes

John Kerry: Gun Owner?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=28086&forum=DCForumID60&archive=yes

[blm]

52. AWD, Dean started calling the others Bushlite on Jan 23

and he was applauded loudly by many here. Dean, the centrist calling longtime liberals "Bushlite". And his supporters echoed him. There is absolutely no denying it.

[LuminousX]

54. I applauded

It put a spark in their bellies and forced them to start charting themselves AGAINST Bush instead of how similar they are to him.

It's worked. It's a good thing.

[acerbic]

53. The claim was "Deanies bashing" and you PRETEND to prove it with that

Open letter to John Kerry from a Vietnam Veteran
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=26087&forum=DCForumID60&archive=yes

Where exactly does it show that the poster is a "Deany", hmm...? "Misinterpretations" again, I guess... :eyes:

[Octafish]

55. Nice input, acerbic.

Didn't seventhson come out recently for Dean?

I know he's said he'd vote for Kerry if he was the nominee.

Would you?

[acerbic]

56. Why are you asking me?

Didn't seventhson come out recently for Dean?

I don't know. Did he/she? I just didn't see it in the thread you linked to as "proof".

I know he's said he'd vote for Kerry if he was the nominee.
Would you?

Of course, unlike some "Kerry supporters" here preaching that people will and should stay home on the election day if Dean is the nominee. Exactly which part of the avatar I'm using don't you understand? Next ****** question, please...

[Octafish]

58. Here's what asked about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=306335

Specifically, check out reply #35 from seventhson:

...KERRY IS FOR THE COMMON MAN, ALRIGHT. THE COMMON SKULL AND BONES MAN

JEESH OCTAFISH!!! THIS THREAD IS A NEW LOW. BUT IT REALLY HELPS DEAN, MAN, SO THANKS FOR IT.

PS: LOL, acerbic. I thought you had me on "ignore." Oh well. Must've been someone else on the thread and I got your named associated with it in my memory. Do you know who that was?

[acerbic]

59. Illucid...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=306335

Specifically, check out reply #35 from seventhson:

Reply #35 in that thread is from Liberal_Guerilla. :shrug:

[Octafish]

61. Right. My mistake — response #55.

Thanks for pointing out my lack of communication skills, too.

[Andromeda]

44. And you're perpetuating...

your disingenuous bashing of Dean ad nauseum.

[Kolesar]

9. PM me if anybody wants to compare their "ignore" lists

:evilgrin:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. My actual list= 0

My mental list=100. lol.

[Kolesar]

14. "Try it, you'll like it"

It really cleans up the first page of the P&C forum, so that you can get to the important threads.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. Hmmmph

I hate to eliminate any possible source of information from my availability...but you seem downright happy! I'll take it under advisement, thanks.

[sandnsea]

21. Listen - I'M ready to put him on ignore!

And he's for my guy!!! Aaagh!

I have 3 people on ignore. And it's more then the position on a particular candidate, it's just everything they say makes my veins pop out. It truly has made a difference, I just am not near as agitated as I had been. Some people just get under your skin. You know, the people that you see at the grocery store and duck down an aisle to avoid them. And send your kid around the store to see if they're gone. We have one woman in our town who was born out of her time. She could have been a towncrier because her voice is so annoyingly LOUD.

Anyway, if you do decide to use ignore, I'd be happy to post anything that you might find useful.

Unless you decide to put me on ignore too!!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. I hear you.

See post #24. And you definately won't be on that list. (Funny grocery store analogy!)

:toast:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. The hits just keep coming!

Dean's remarks make rivals say: Wait a minute

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. ...and coming...

There’s a Chill in the Air

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. ...and coming...

A Debate in Black and White


Oh, well. You get the point. (I hope)

[disgruntella]

18. ah, never mind n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Lol.

(On edit: Saw your pre-edited message)


I'm stubborn. It would reek of censorship. Actually, 3 or 4 would just about do it. You're right though, you and SpikeTrees have convinced me. Thank you.


__________________

[gully]

20. Thanks, I was thinking about this the other day...

Sad statement all around.

[renie408]

22. I was curious about this

so I went back and looked at some of the older pages. They go back to about August 22. There were some bashes against Kerry, one against Kerry and Edwards, one against Graham (why bother??), a couple against Dean...but over all, it was a lot more evenly distributed about three weeks ago.

Do you think it is blood in the water that has the Dean-bashing posts on the increase? And what, exactly, is a bash? Some stuff, I can tell right off is a bash. I consider just obnoxious shit-starting to be a bash. I think you guys call it 'flamebait'. Other things, it just seems to me like somebody screwed up and it is being pointed out.

Do you think we should be limited to only posting positive comments about our candidates? And if you don't, where do you draw the line? To me, if somebody does something wrong or whatever, shouldn't you share that with people if it bugs you? If the claims are baseless, they shouldn't do that much harm.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Nah, I don't think there should be a limitation.

I think a lot of it springs from desperation, an understandable human emotion. I'd be pissed, too, if my guy/gal wasn't doing as well as I thought they should be. Everyone has to draw their own line as to what is acceptable. For me, I understand a NYT piece criticising a candidate being discussed but not a West Podunk Tribune article that has to be dredged from cyberspace. It just seems that there is more Opposition Research being done than honest debate. It's funny because I think they don't do any harm at all. :shrug:

[Kolesar]

31. I think this excessive attacking does harm

I just logged off to see P&C without the ignore feature. I quickly counted 11 posts by my unfavorite posters who were on my ignore list. This "DU Noise" distracts all the users from serious discussion, because it crowds out better threads. The ignored-users-in-question generally start threads whose message counts barely reaches double digits. This reminds me of when all those idiots, probably from freeper land, started swamping us with prowar threads early this year when the US government attacked Iraq. It crowds out quality content.

I did not send in fifty bucks last year to have some bozo with a bad attitude degenerate my message board into a realm for low brow flame wars.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. While I'm not sure how much

actual harm it does beyond being aggravating, I see your point. I took your and disgruntella's advice (see post #24) and put 3 perps on ignore and it has already proven to be a revelation. I'm a stubborn mofo but even I can see reason. I appreciate your timely and sage advice (that last sentence may have said it all). Thanks.

[ModerateMiddle]

23. It has been a very bad day for Dean

That's pretty clear.

[DrFunkenstein]

25. Let Me Field Some of These

1) The Mid-East is a legitimate topic, not a bash.

2) The Race threads are a response from a Dean attack (that other candidates haven't been talking about race to white crowds, which is either a slip or a lie, and not the first time Dean has tried to set himself apart on false grounds).

3) The CATO Institute thing was a bash in my book, and this was my response:

Ok, Now I Give Dean Hell
But this guy is the President of Club For Growth (think Grover Norquist). If any Dean fans had bothered to read the article, they would have found plenty of (for liberals, at least) pro-Dean passages.

I then go on to cite how the article says things that would horrify conservatives, but look great to liberals.

4) Honestly, I didn't even look at the spam thread, because it just doesn't interest me. I'm not particularly against specialized spamming just yet.

6) Inside the threads are plenty of prejudices and calumnies for all to see. Even from some of the good folk here professing outrage.

[renie408]

26. I read the spam thread

and I am so retarded I couldn't figure out why it is more obnoxious for candidates to send you emails than it is for them to call you and send you 'real' mail.

Do emails have more regulations than other forms of contact? If so, why do I get ads every day for stuff to enlarge somebodies penis or my breasts or for credit cards and house loans?

[sandnsea]

28. Savvy internet people are supposed to know better

I've gotten about 5 Dean spams, even after asking to be taken off of the lists. It is just a complete no-no to spam people if you are trying to run an ethical internet business. The lowest of the low spam because their product is such crap that they can't sell it any other way. Really a flub. But another one I can overlook if they'd just get it under control.

[dsc]

36. have you gotten any since the venders doing it were fired?

That seems to be a pretty good response.

[sandnsea]

37. Within the last week or two

I honestly didn't follow the story that closely so I don't even know when the vendors were fired. I was more annoyed when I kept getting them after I took my name off the list. This isn't a big deal to me, just explaining to Renie in case she didn't understand 'internet etiquette'. That's all.

[molly]

47. This is Joe Trippi - Dean should get rid of him

he's obnoxious and has ruined any credibiltiy Dean tried to build. This is NOT used car sales - this is the Presidency of the United States.

[Cha]

49. Yeah off with his head.. I don't think it is Joe Trippi's doing....

but I'm sure they'll take your directive under advisement!

[LuminousX]

34. I'd be happier

If all this was being done as Opposition Research and clearly labled as such instead of weird attempts at torpedoeing candidates. I'm talking not only of the anti-Dean stuff but all the anti-candidate threads.

We are dealing with a gaggle of flawed candidates whom we need to help shore up against the Rovian storm that is brewing on the horizon. People can blame others for 'starting it' but that is just childish.

Should we ignore our candidates weaknesses? Absolutely not. Should we have to wade through the same points over and over? Absolutely not. Will any of this information actually cause someone to change their support? Absolutely not. So what is the point? The only reason to bring up negatives is either to help counter them or to sink the candidate in some fashion. Seeing that on this board, the number of people negative attacks are going to cause to switch is minimal the latter reason is just wasted energy. The former reason then is the only valid one for posting negative attack threads. Of course, the most vile and flagrantly foul threads come from those who aren't fighing FOR a candidate, only AGAINST one.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

39. Agreed. Well put. n/t

[RevolutionStartsNow]

57. "Harboring hate in your heart...

is like taking rat poison and waiting for the rat to die."

Anne Lamott said that.

I can live with the bashing, but the intense Dean hatred just seems weird to me. Imagine if that much energy was spent working for a candidate, or even against Bush, rather than Dean.

[LuminousX]

41. I'm altering my opinion slightly

While I am not thrilled with the vile and vicious attack threads, I figure it is better to be 'in the game' then out of it. So long as people are attacking means the candidate is still a threat.

The candidate you hardly ever see attack threads against (Gephardt, Lieberman, Edwards) are in trouble. They don't stir enough passion in the people to make them care one way or another.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. Another flip-flop from Luminous X.

Your opinions might as well be served from the Waffle Housetm.


:evilgrin:

[LuminousX]

43. Cooking Both Sides

I consider my opinions to be ever evolving, progressing you might say.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. Like this?

[polpilot]

50. Dean will be the next president of the U.S. Backers of long time politicos

are disappointed that their 'career' wannabe wordsmiths aren't going to make it and hence the venom.

Dean '04...

[CWebster]

60. Due to new elements

specifically on this forum that are similar in tone and hostility to the gang that exclusively frequents the I\P threads. Wonder where Prof Plum got off too? His style was much preferable....you know what I am saying PP?