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dajabr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 01:37 AM
Original message
Schumer Says Dean Needs Foreign Policy Plan
PLATTSBURGH, N.Y. -- Howard Dean's push for the presidency has the attention of New York Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer.

During a swing through the Champlain Valley, Schumer had a little praise and a little advice for the former Vermont governor.

"The one thing I would say is with foreign policy, you can't just say no. You have to say yes and what you would do," Schumer said. "If you don't like what President Bush does, you have to say something positive, and I think Dean will say that, but I think that's the missing piece of his campaign. But overall, he's doing real well and he deserves to do well. I admire somebody who starts way down and works -- works, works, works, works -- says what he thinks and gains popularity. Right now he's the hot candidate."


http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/politics/2444791/det...

I be sending Schumer these in the AM, along with a "Thank You" for the positive things he said.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=...

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=...

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=...
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ryharrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have a feeling that Schumer might be getting a bit of help next year
from Syracuse for Dean :)
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you Mr Schumer, we all know what a great foreign policy Bush has
endowed us with.

Obviously Mr. Schumer has not been listening to Governor Dean and yet is eager to give instruction.

In truth, who the hell knows, but your average fortune teller what the right correct way with which to deal with this chaotic mess, horrific, shameful mess? I think in a perfect world we would fire our current Administration, send in Red Cross and international aid and right this incredible wrong as much as we can, and begin working on alternatives to fossil fuels PRONTO.*****

I also think sending Halliburton and Brechtel on their merry way is also a novel idea.

Schumers textbook, methological answer is disturbing to me. It lacks a real core connection or comprehension to what is happening in Iraq. I am amazed at the level of detachment these leaders have about our destruction and disintegration of a civilization that has taken place, all in the name of profit?? How does one even manage to mentally accomplish that? Amazing compartmentalization.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Did I read it wrong?
I see this praise for Schumer, who did give positives to Dean, and yet I read his other qualifications towards foreign policy experience as patronizing. Even though I appreciate things Schumer has done for New York, I would certainly not consider him a foreign policy expert.

Come to think of it, Im not sure if there are any Congressmen that should really be considered experts, whatever qualifications that includes. Some may say Kissinger is an expert, I would call him a criminal from what I have read.

Im sure there are very qualified individuals, but I think the ability to positively influence policy ultimately goes right back to the simplest element - how you deal with people. It comes from someones core humanity and ethicality. Jimmy Carter I think would be an expert, but I can imagine an onslaught of criticism there. Not that it matters. Hes a brilliant humanitarian who seems to grow with experience, not to mention his age. I would consider Clinton an expert on policy in the way he brought individuals to the table. I miss him and the overall climate of the world and the people when he was in office. Life was so much better.

Of course Clinton learned probably the most being immersed in his presidency and the policies and issues facing him. His ability to address issues must have ultimately resulted from his experience on the job, revealing some ignorance with Schumers comments. There's not a seminar, nor some graduate class you can take for Foreign policy that will equip you for it. Its something you either have or you dont, and I think bottom line, it is how you affect, influence, inspire and motivate individuals. Who has accomplished these actions more than Governor Dean? So has Schumer been out of town or something?
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. he doesn't have to be an expert
but he does have to have a policy.

George Bush ran as someone who had thought little about foreign affairs, but would assemble a competent team of experts.

I agree with Schumer that Dean needs a coherent policy, and I'd add that my preferred candidate Gephardt needs to talk more about foreign policy too. Imo, Gep is best off "borrowing" some ideas from Kerry, if he thinks he can get away with it.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's not about policy anymore
Schumer's all confused about the power of Dean.

(sorry, couldn't resist!)
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DEM FAN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well Bush Needs A Foreign Policy To. Just Because I Said So Doesn't
Cut It. :-(
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good, because I'm sure Schumer doesn't realize that Dean
really came up with his foreign policy speech all by himself and that he did NOT crib any of it from Kerry's foreign policy speech.

I'm sure Schumer doesn't really believe Gary Hart when he said that Dean and Lieberman should NOT be president because of foreign policy. In fact, Hart said Dean called him up and said "Gary, what do I do?" last January.

You would think someone running for president post 9-11 would have a greater understanding of foreign policy issues and that they took initiative to understand those issues BEFORE they decided to run for president.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I want that link
where Hart said "that Dean should not be President". Put up here. No tales about computer woes, calling me net nanny, or anything else. You put very specific words in Gary Hart's mouth. You owe it to him, note him not me, to have a specific site where he says exactly that. If you can't produce that you owe Mr. Hart an apology. I intend to email him on this so if you don't have that link you had better admit it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Go ahead...alot of people want that link...
and it was available for awhile. It is no longer available. It was a May 7 Denver Post article that was linked here at DU throughout May and June. ABC's The Note also spoke about it at the time, but, oddly that perticular issue of the Note is also unavailable now, with no explanation.

Gary Hart's blog had it up as well as others, but, when you hit the link nothing is found.

Who's doing the scrubbing?

BTW...I'd like to see which Dean suopporters here who are very aware of the article will come forward and admit that it exists, because you certainly commented at the time that you were angered that Hart said what he did.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I am not claiming it doesn't exist
but to be blunt Kerry supports have a history of clipping quotes. Many times I have gone to a link and found that in context the quote was utterly different than it had been portrayed by the Kerry supporter. I also wanted to read it so I could ask Mr. Hart specific questions. That is hard to do without seeing the quote in context. I would like to know what his specific problem was (did he disagree with the policy, did he not like a lack of experience, or what). You are portraying it as an experience problem. I recall it being a content disagreement. But like always you are the poor persecuted Kerry supporter and always give me the worst motives possible.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Nope...I don't think you have the worst motives...
in fact, I think you are compelled by decent motives.

I also think Hart is compelled not only with decent motives, but, a deep responsibility to this nation and its wellbeing.

You might want to consider who scrubbed this article and WHY it has been scrubbed. Because it has surely been scrubbed if even ABC's The Note from that same day cannot be accessed.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Pssst.
The link. I've heard this posited before and just figured you were telling the truth. Maybe a link would make me 100% sure. The only reason I'm asking is because you were asked for the link and you didn't provide it. Thanks.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. From Google's Cache....
Search for: "Gary, what do I do?" Dean

- - - - -

blm (10260 posts)

May-08-03, 10:36 PM (ET)

10. Gary Hart on Howard Dean and national security...

>>>>>>>>
While resisting a request to handicap the remaining contenders for the White House, the former Colorado senator offered these observations about some still in the field:
Bush is still "inexperienced" as the chief executive, having pushed ineffective tax cuts that have failed to kick-start the economy. Bush is hiding a "stealth agenda" of radical federal cutbacks from the American people. In evaluating Bush on three key leadership areas, Hart gave the president nearly failing grades on his stewardship of the economy and as a head of state but relatively high marks as commander-in-chief, based on successes in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, lacks crucial defense or foreign policy experience.

Joe Lieberman, U.S. senator and former vice presidential candidate, is making a futile appeal to the "amorphous middle" by parroting Bush policies.

>>>>>
Dean, the former Vermont governor, is so inexperienced on defense and foreign relations that before his first trip to Israel in January, he called Hart and said, "Gary, what do I do?" Hart said.
>>>>

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E64%257E...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yes...but, it's gone now,
and has been since early July. Then you could pick up the quotes from ABC's The Note, but, now that also says it is no longer available. Why?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Here is my exact point blm
Hart didn't say this:

I'm sure Schumer doesn't really believe Gary Hart when he said that Dean and Lieberman should NOT be president because of foreign policy. In fact, Hart said Dean called him up and said "Gary, what do I do?" last January.


From what you quoted, yourself, on this board he didn't utter the words "Dean should not be President". He did point out, accurately, that Dean "lacks crucial defense or foreign policy experience". It should be noted that so did Clinton, Reagan, and the current President. I would be willing to bet Hart endorsed Clinton in 92. You do this alot, which is why I ask for links. You often give your interpretation of what people say and state it as what the person said. Hart didn't say what you said he said. He just didn't. That is what my problem was and why I wanted the link.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I didn't say that...You can't read the whole article
because it can't be found.

They ask Hart about the other candidates and he only goes into who he thinks he wouldn't like to see as the Dem candidate. I wasn't using exact quotes on that part. I only used exact quotes on the "Gary, what do I do?" part.

If you saw the whole article you would easily see the context and that Hart doesn't like either one as the nominee.

But, you'd much rather berate me for something YOU have not read.

I also note that NONE OF YOU have any concern for the fact that this entire article cannot be accessed. WHY? Who scrubbed it and why?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Then why did you NOT raise that point
with me when I asked for a link of him saying what you had him saying WITH QUOTES. Your answer to that wasn't that I was putting words in your mouth it was that I had seen that quote and answered it. Look above at my post asking for a link. I was very careful what I wrote.

As to why it was 'scrubbed' does that paper charge for its archives? If so you probably have your answer. They don't want floating around for free what they are charging for.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. But, it wasn't JUST the Denver Post...it is also
ABC's The Note which was scrubbed, when they offer all their other back pieces.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. It is just as I suspected
Edited on Sat Aug-30-03 05:48 PM by dsc
If you search their archives with the term Joe Lieberman date 5/07/2003 to 5/08/2003 you get a link to the interview and have to pay 1.95 to see the whole thing. That is what happened to your link. I don't have a credit card or I would have bought the thing myself. So no it wasn't Howard Dean's DDf which killed the link. It was greed. Something you would have known had you bothered to check.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=... (05/07/2003%20to%2005/08/2003)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=05/07/2003%20to%2005/08/2003&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=("Joe%20Lieberman")&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date :D&xcal_useweights=no

The above is the link. I haven't a clue if it will work. This is the link to the results of the search.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Obviously it didn't work
just follow the instructions I gave instead.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Everytime you recall what Hart said it's worse than the last time.
I read the article and don't remember Hart saying Dean shouldn't be president because of a lack of foreign policy experience.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. HAHAH...by all means tell us
Edited on Sat Aug-30-03 03:29 PM by blm
what you think Gary Hart meant by singling out Dean and Lieberman in that piece.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Obviously, he meant Dean isn't worthy to step foot in the White House...
... or that Dean lacks foreign policy experience.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. again putting your interpretation
on Hart's words and then claiming it is Harts. Yet again you don't claim we are putting words in your mouth. In point of fact you are saying the exact opposite.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is basically the LBJ advice -- you can't win an election
by being against everything. If you listen to Dean's speeches, they're basically a litany of complainst about Bush. Schumer is gently saying, without criticizing, that a meta-message entirely defining yourself as being against somebody, will not work.

What happens if Bush decides he doesn't want to run for a second term and you've entirely defined yourself as being in opposition to Bush. You're screwed. And, like LBJ says, you never win an election by being against things. You have to tell people what your for (and not just in your position papers -- what you're for has to be part of your persona).
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. We must be listening to different speeches
I hear a candidate who is for the UN taking over Iraq. For civil unions. For health care for all via tinkering with the current system. For repealing the tax cuts and balancing the budget. For a restoration of the Clinton economy. Funny how some TVs must edit.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I guess we are. One I listened to was that OK forum
where each candidate sat down with two interviewers. All Dean did was list off the reasons he hated Bush.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. And I guess Schumer doesn't know what he's talking about either.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Schumer isn't perfect
the last time I checked.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
39. Actually, last time I checked he was almost perfect. I love this guy
During the Clinton impeachment he talked great sense. I think he's a brilliant politician. But that's neither here nor there. Regardless of how I feel, personally, about Schumer, he certainly understands campaigning (as did LBJ and Clinton, who both made similar comments about campaigning in general, or about campainging today).
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I find Positiveness in Dean's Speeches! And your opinion is
just that and I will take it for what it's worth.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Dean supporters?
Is there any criticism of Dean that is justified? It does not matter what anyone says, if it is even partially a criticism or a suggestion of something Dean could do better, it gets dismissed immediately and the author is just out to get Dean or is ignorant.

You know, this as much as anything makes me wonder. Dean isn't perfect. He has flaws and he is making mistakes. He has to be. It isn't just you guys, it is all the 'rabid' supporters. If anybody says anything conceivably negative about their candidate, it is instantly stomped on. I would almost like to see a thread that was something like "Here is who I support and here is what they could do better."
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I agree
That said I really like my candiate. My two problems with him are his past pro life record and his vote on that flag burning thingy. Above all though I wish he could raise more money. BTW John Edwards seems like a good guy, I think he could be a good pres but because I support DK, VP or something. Now on Edwards and Kucinich, those two are good pals according to Dennis, I wouldnt doubt they have a bit in common.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yeah! Just pile it on!
Whatever..how your response to Edwards bashing?
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Bash him and I guess we'll find out
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions
This is what a real foreign policy sounds like:

"While we must remain determined to defeat terrorism, it isn't only terrorism we are fighting. It's the beliefs that motivate terrorists. A new ideology of hatred and intolerance has arisen to challenge America and liberal democracy. It seeks a war of Islam - as defined by extremists - against the rest of the world and we must be clear its epicenter is the Greater Middle East.

It's critical that we recognize the conditions that are breeding this virulent new form of anti-American terrorism. If you look at countries stretching from Morocco through the Middle East and beyond...broadly speaking the western Muslim world...what you see is a civilization under extraordinary stress.

The region's political and economic crisis is vividly captured in a recent report written by Arab scholars for the United Nations Development Program and the Arab Fund for Social and Economic Development. Let me quote:

"The wave of democracy that transformed governance in most of the world has barely reached the Arab states...The freedom deficit undermines human development and is one of the most painful manifestations of lagging political development."

According to Freedom House, there are no full-fledged democracies among the 16 Arab states of the Middle East and North Africa. The Middle East is not monolithic; there are governments making progress and struggling effectively with change in Jordan, Morocco and Qatar. But Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Syria are among the 10 least free nations in the world.

Political and economic participation among Arab women is the lowest in the world and more than half of Arab women are still illiterate. And these countries are among the most economically isolated in the world, with very little trade apart from the oil royalties which flow to those at the very top.

Since 1980, the share of world trade held by the 57 member countries of the Organization of the Islamic Conference has fallen from 15 percent to just four percent.The same countries attracted only $13.6 billion worth of foreign direct investment in 2001. That is just $600 million - only about 5 % more than Sweden, which has only 9 million people compared to 1.3 billion people.

In 1969, the GDP of South Korea and Egypt were almost identical. Today, South Korea boasts one of the 20 largest economies in the world while Egypt's remains economically frozen almost exactly where it was thirty years before.

A combination of harsh political repression, economic stagnation, lack of education and opportunity, and rapid population growth has proven simply explosive. The streets are full of young people who have no jobs... no prospects... no voice. State-controlled media encourage a culture of self-pity, victimhood and blame-shifting. This is the breeding ground for present and future hostility to the West and our values.

From this perspective, it's clear that we need more than a one-dimensional war on terror. Of course we need to hunt down and destroy those who are plotting mass murder against Americans and innocent people from Africa to Asia to Europe.

We must drain the swamps of terrorists; but you don't have a prayer of doing so if you leave the poisoned sources to gather and flow again. That means we must help the vast majority people of the greater Middle East build a better future. We need to illuminate an alternative path to a futile Jihad against the world...a path that leads to deeper integration of the greater Middle East into the modern world order.

The Middle East isn't on the Bush Administration's trade agenda. We need to put it there.

The United States and its transatlantic partners should launch a high-profile Middle East trade initiative designed to stop the economic regression in the Middle East and spark investment, trade and growth in the region. It should aim at dismantling trade barriers that are among the highest in the world, encouraging participation in world trade policy and ending the deep economic isolation of many of the region's countries.

I propose the following policy goals:

We should build on the success of Clinton Administration's Jordan Free Trade Agreement. Since the United States reduced tariffs on goods made in "qualifying industrial zones," Jordan's exports to the US jumped from $16 to $400 million, creating about 40,000 jobs. Let's provide similar incentives to other countries that agree to join the WTO, stop boycotting Israel and supporting Palestinian violence against Israel, and open up their economies.

We should also create a general duty-free program for the region, just as we've done in the Caribbean Basin Initiative and the Andean Trade Preference Act. Again, we should set some conditions: full cooperation in the war on terror, anti-corruption measures, non-compliance with the Israel boycott, respect for core labor standards and progress toward human rights.

Let's be clear: Our goal is not to impose some western free market ideology on the greater Middle East. It's to open up a region that is now closed to opportunity, an outpost of economic exclusion and stagnation in a fast-globalizing world.

These countries suffer from too little globalization, not too much. Without greater investment, without greater trade within the region and with the outside world, without the transparency and legal protections that modern economies need to thrive, how will these countries ever be able to grow fast enough to provide jobs and better living standards for their people?

But as we extend the benefits of globalization to people in the greater Middle East and the developing world in general, we also need to confront globalization's dark side.

We should use the leverage of capital flows and trade to lift, not lower, international labor and environmental standards. We should strengthen the IMF's ability to prevent financial panics from turning into full-scale economic meltdowns such as we've seen in Argentina. And in the Middle East especially, we need to be sensitive to fears that globalization will corrupt or completely submerge traditional cultures and mores. We can do these things."

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/spc_2003_0123.ht...
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. And Kerry cribbed that speech from Al Gore's Feb 12, 2002 speech
to the Council of Foreign Affairs.

The "swamp of terrorism" metaphor is in Gore's speech. Go to Algoredemocrats.com formerly algore04.com for Gore's speech.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. oh for chrissake, those are CHENEY's words
He started talking about draining the swamp right after 9/11. Other people probably were using the term long before that. The blatant hatred coupled with the denial of it, is just unreal.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Gore and kerry think alike
for the most part on foreign policy. They worked together alot. There is nothing suspicious of either of them sounding like the other for the last 10 years.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. If they do, then why did Gore and Kerry vote opposite each other on 1991
Iraq war vote and why did Gore NOT support the 2002 Iraq War Resolution and why did Kerry go against Gore's advice in the Sep 23, 2002 speech.

I think that Gore's August 7, 2003 speech to MoveOn.org indicates that Gore and Kerry are farther apart than you think.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Dream on.
A vote here and there do NOT a whole foreign policy make. It was Kerry who worked with Clinton and Gore on Iraq, remember?

You just want to view Gore's words and Kerry's words through your own Deancolored lenses. When you do that, you can no longer even show any objectivity of Gore's record and his words now.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. How About Noam Chomsky?
Drain The Swamp And There Will Be No More Mosquitoes

http://www.lastsuperpower.net/Members/kesa/News_Item.20...

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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
38. As an OPPONENT of the war in Iraq...
I will say that Senator Schumer is RIGHT!!! Any viable Presidential Candidate needs a strong and tough FOREIGN POLICY!!!! If Dean goes in looking like McGovern then he will be TOAST!!! He should challenge Bushie on the issues of Saudi Arabia and the terrorists!
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Dean is no McGovern. He's more like Harry Truman
Dean will make his decisions based upon the facts on hand, not on political opportunity or ideology.

Kerry may have better foreign policy credentials, but both his Iraq War votes were WRONG! Those 2 crucial votes show that Kerry doesn't base critical decisions on facts, but on political opportunism.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. He Was Not Up For Election in 1997
Saddam Hussein cannot be permitted to go unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation.

While we should always seek to take significant international actions on a multilateral rather than a unilateral basis whenever that is possible, if in the final analysis we face what we truly believe to be a grave threat to the well-being of our Nation or the entire world and it cannot be removed peacefully, we must have the courage to do what we believe is right and wise.

Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 11/9/97

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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Or Spring of 2001
Nearly ten years after the United States and a coalition of allies defeated Saddam Hussein, the international sanctions regime against Iraq has clearly failed to force a change in leadership in Baghdad and has lost meaningful support in the world community as a means of eliminating his weapons programs.

Each newspaper story about commercial flights from Moscow or Paris into Baghdad International Airport further discredits the sanctions regime. Meanwhile, the people of Iraq continue to suffer terribly, as Saddam profits from the sanctions, using them as a tool for maintaining his reign of terror.

...

Since the withdrawal of UN weapons inspectors from Iraq two years ago, however, little serious attention has been paideither by the Congress or the White Houseto addressing Iraqs growing threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf region. What little debate there might have been over the UNs attempt to lift economic sanctions on Iraq in exchange for a resumption of inspections evaporated as it became clear that Saddam would not consider allowing UN inspectors to return.

...

We should be willing to consider adjusting the current economic sanctions, as long as such a change is accompanied by renewed commitments from U.S. allies and others to enforce the sanctions on military and dual-use exports to Iraq.
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