Politics -- only theater?

[Mairead]

A lot of people here have been very disdainful and critical of the people who would support Schwarzenegger, saying that those people are supporting him only because of his fame as an actor, which thus makes them totally shallow and stupid.

But many of the same DUers support some candidate for president on grounds that also boil down to 'he gives good theater': 'he attacks Bush', 'he speaks out', 'he attracts people', he puts on a good show, etc.

If giving good theater is a reason for supporting a Dem candidate, why isn't it a reason for supporting a candidate of any other stripe?



A bigger question, though, is: Is all politics mere theater, now? Have our expectations really become so stunted that we can no longer muster the energy to put substance before show?

[FloridaPat]

1. Sounds as good a reason as any one to support someone.

Better than supporting someone because their a republican or Democrat. Shows some thought on the subject!

Yes, in the US, we vote on how people look on TV, not their record. We've been doing that for decades. Substance doesn't count anymore.

[polpilot]

2. Sad commentary. Substance ALWAYS counts.

Dean '04

[clar]

3. I don't think all politcs

is mere theatre now, though we're edging ever further into that territory. Actually I think the dem candidate are presenting substantive policy materials on a host of important issues.

I for one, have nothing against a Hollywood star type running for office, provided that this person actually knows something about Governing. I don't know beans about Schwarztnegger, except I refuse to call him an actor; whatever it is he does, it's not acting, a profession I have a healthy regard for.

American Presidential polictics have long had an element of theatricality to them. Nothing new about that.

I'm assuming that you're referring to certain Dean supporters in your post. (I'll be really disappointed if you aver that ain't so) Although I have heard people praise dean for his passion, something they perceive to be genuine, I've yet to see any remarks in any significant number that indicate support for him because he "gives good theatre", or "puts on a good show". Come to think of it, I haven't seen any of those remarks at all. People have said that they were attacted to him initially because of his speaking out against Bush, and later stayed on because of his policies, or because they felt like the campaign was from the bottom up; they felt empowered, enfranchised, all that jazz. I'm glad so many folks feel passionate about their candidates. There certainly are almost as many reasons for supporting a candidate as there are supporters.

[Mairead]

5. Yes, it is mainly Dean's supporters I had in mind

because, as you imply you've also noticed, so many of them seem to be supporting him more than the positions he holds. But I think there might be a few people who support Dennis mostly because he's Dennis, too. I've not seen the same cult-of-personality thing coalescing around Kerry or any of the others that I can think of, but perhaps I missed it.

I've yet to see any remarks in any significant number that indicate support for him because he "gives good theatre", or "puts on a good show"

Please note the syntax I used -- 'gives good theater' is my summary paraphrase, as is 'puts on a good show'.

[roughsatori]

4. Schwarzenegger supports Bush*

Maybe I'm too left wing or something. But I don't think that is a good thing for me or any Democrat to vote for with 2004 around the corner.

A candidate Attacking Shrub is not theater, it means that candidate is opposed to Shrub's policies.

In public life, presentation is more important then substance. A candidate with integrity will attempt to balance the two. Arnold seems to lack that kind of ethical approach. His team appears not to want to broach specifics on any issue. I have seen his supporters on TV saying that is his agenda: To be vague and pull in moderate Dems.

There was a small demonstration by some anti-globalization groups in Philly. My Mother (who has told me she would spit in Shrub's face if he were in front of her) said: "These kids look like the same rich brats that attend all of these things, do their parents pay for the travel, and black clothing?" She laughed them off and did not even care that they may have shared an agenda similar to her own.

Later I gave her a well written explanation of goals by one of the groups at the protest. She was in complete agreement with the written statement, yet was turned off by how the theater of their demonstration. Their theater backfired.

[plurality]

6. What makes you think this is a new thing?

Remember grade school history where you learned that in the early 1800's "Log Cabins and Hard Cider" or :Tippecanoe and Tyler too" was all it took to win the presidency? Politics in this country has always been a big game show where the winner is determined by who can kiss rich people's asses the most behind the scenes and who can spew the most filth about the other in public.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. If it's to be only theater - we will lose

The simplistic, jingoistic, dishonest lies that the Republicans use to hide their real agenda just make better theater than actually standing up for the difficult choices that we must sometimes make. And if it is only a matter of image, then money counts more than ever. Slick packaging and marketing can be very successful at selling an inferior product.

The only way we can win is to actually engage the electorate's hearts and minds. That requires more from us than soundbites and bumper-sticker arguments.

[DrFunkenstein]

8. Quoting People Around Here Would Certainly Support That Theory

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[genius]

9. Good point. And the un-named Democrat you mentioned

is also Bush's pick for the nomination. You'd think people would look below the surface.

[PATRICK]

10. caricatures, travesties and extremes

can exist for anything. The GOP puts up anti-politicians(a la Anti-Christ) promising in a more glamourous way to be something they are diametrically against. Any honest statemen in their party therefore is a midget. It all works in reverse but it does work on the masses because it exploits, takes everything rather than serve. Idolatry.

[w4rma]

11. Personally, I support Gov. Dean for all those reasons, but also many more

important reasons.

He runs a tight ship of a campaign.
He is extremely intellegent and educated. (Doctorate of Medicine)
He knows how to play hardball politics.
He knows how to maximize his chances.
When Gov. Dean hit the big time Bush* started losing the campaign.
His campaign team is the largest and most organized grassroots campaign in the history of this country.
Even though he is much more moderate than I am, his policy positions all offer incremental improvements on most of what I support.

[DrFunkenstein]

13. Dean Does Not Run A Tight Ship

He is very hands-off with his supporters, which is commendable. It's a different way to run a campaign, and one of the most compelling aspects of his candidacy.

[dajabr]

12. Strong personal presence + substance is a knock out combo...

Good thing Dean has them both!

[DrFunkenstein]

14. I've Got A Thread For You

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=22075#22267

I'd love to discuss substance, but mostly I get a whole lot of style.