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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:20 AM
Original message
Why we need for Bush to win the election.
Iraq will go from bad to worse and will finally implode completely. We need for Bush to be at the helm when that happens so that no one else can be blamed.

We need for Bush to be in the White House when the economy finally collapses and America goes from super power to has-been second rate nation so that it will be crystal clear who brought about the fall.

We need Bush to be in charge when all these mega corporations that are rushing to outsource suddenly fall on their faces when they discover that there is no middle class left in America to buy their products.

We need for the average man on the street to feel the pain and to see clearly where the neocon philosophy has led them so that this whole band of neocon morons will be thoroughly discredited for at least another generation to come.

The average American is still blinded by the idea that this mighty nation is invincible. That arrogance needs to be shaken off before we can make any real progress. The swaggering bullies need to be humbled, and how better than by the fruits of their own actions?

Perhaps this is a good time to just give them some more rope and then simply sit back and watch them hang themselves.
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drumwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. sounds good except that.....
i really would prefer that they self-destructed without bringing the rest of us down with them.

:evilfrown:
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Pretty much what I was going to say
giving Bush the politcal ample rope to hang himself with requires giving enough rope to hang the country.
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Cromarty_Ladd1 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. "sounds good except that....."
Agreed. Can't you suggest a way forward that doesn't require the America to become a third world country and an economic situation worse than the Great Depression?
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Direckshun Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. I know the point you're trying to make...
...and you make it well, sir. :) I'm going to reply to these points anyway, however.

Iraq will go from bad to worse and will finally implode completely. We need for Bush to be at the helm when that happens so that no one else can be blamed.

If we elect Kerry, there is actually a chance that Iraq can be saved and resurrected.

We need for Bush to be in the White House when the economy finally collapses and America goes from super power to has-been second rate nation so that it will be crystal clear who brought about the fall.

Actually the economy has gone up recently, but with Kerry at the helms it will skyrocket, bouncing back from Bush's backwards economics policy. Not to mention the job rate will increase as well.

We need Bush to be in charge when all these mega corporations that are rushing to outsource suddenly fall on their faces when they discover that there is no middle class left in America to buy their products.

Kerry will preserve the middle class and tax the mega corps, and keep them in check.

We need for the average man on the street to feel the pain and to see clearly where the neocon philosophy has led them so that this whole band of neocon morons will be thoroughly discredited for at least another generation to come.

Well, if they haven't felt it by now... :)

The average American is still blinded by the idea that this mighty nation is invincible. That arrogance needs to be shaken off before we can make any real progress. The swaggering bullies need to be humbled, and how better than by the fruits of their own actions?

America IS invicible. But you're right, this makes many people cocky, instead of thankful. This makes many people gung-ho for war, not persuing a more ideal role in world relations.

Perhaps this is a good time to just give them some more rope and then simply sit back and watch them hang themselves.

If Kerry isn't elected, I think you may be right.
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. -sigh-
We need for Bush to be in the White House when the economy finally collapses and America goes from super power to has-been second rate nation so that it will be crystal clear who brought about the fall.

"Actually the economy has gone up recently, but with Kerry at the helms it will skyrocket, bouncing back from Bush's backwards economics policy. Not to mention the job rate will increase as well."

-sigh- Yeah, and we all know that if the economy is boosted, the repugs will praise Bush. And if it goes down with Kerry, he will be to blame.

Good or bad, the game's the same in politics. Thhe Dems are blamed, the GOP is praised.
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stryker18 Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. Personally
I don't want to see this country go to hell. I think you've got an interesting point, but I just don't think that giving Bush another four years would be the most intelligent course of action. I want to give Kerry a chance to rescue this country before Bush makes it implode.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. I take it that you are NOT an "average American."
You are someone who can "simply sit back and watch them hang themselves."

But what you would really be watching is the rest of US, the average Americans, dying of curable diseases, dying of environmental pollution, dying of poverty and starvation because there won't be enough money or food left to feed us, dying in Bush's wars.

That's what you'll be watching from that safe, secure distance.

Didn't Nader make a similar speech four years ago?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Or, we could try to stop all of that from happening
I'm not on board that whole "Let's let the world self-destruct and let lots of people suffer without trying to stop it so that people will see that we were right" train. Sounds too much like Nader's plans to let America self-destruct so he can rebuild it in his image. Shameful and disgusting messiah complexes usually backfire. There's no gaurantee that people won't go more to the right, rather than back to the left. Look at Germany: naked imperial goals led them to WWI and total destruction, and they responded by doing it again, only worse, under Hitler. The Republicans will try to sell any collapses as due to resistance from liberals like us, and they just might convince people they are right. They are doing it so far.

Kerry's running an excellent campaign, he's got good ideas, and he's sitting pretty to beat Bush in November. I'll put my hopes on him for now, and leave the Apocolypse delusions to the Republicans.
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. So he can
Edited on Sun May-02-04 03:10 AM by raysr
load the courts with r-wing life-time appointment judges? Amend the Constitution so "Ahhhhnold" can run for Prez? Let the "fundies" get a stronger foothold on the government? Yeah, that's real good thinking. Another round for Bush is all we need.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. If he appoints two or 3 more nuts to the SCOTUS
it will already be too late, and we'll have lost America.

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. I guess you were responding to the original post and not mine?
nt.
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MoonGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. WTF R U talking about?
Talk about not seeing the forest through the trees...

Are you so involved in the competitive aspect of politics that you don't realize that everything you're talking about will HURT PEOPLE?

We need to beat Bush in this election. That much is clear. We are already paying the cost of his first administration, and if he stays in the White House, we'll be paying the cost of his second, in lives and dollars, for years to come.

And the only clear alternative, short of some miracle in the next few months, is John Kerry. So, we elect John Kerry, and when his time is up, we elect somebody better. And we just keep doing that. Got it?

We need to make sure that Bush and people like him never wins another election.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Screw that
Edited on Sun May-02-04 04:47 AM by Art_from_Ark
This is just like saying that, after serving what was supposed to be a four-year sentence for a crime we didn't commit, we should ask the judge to extend the sentence to another four years.

:argh:
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. I might agree with you if I lived
SOMEWHERE ELSE.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. Like all people everywhere, the average American wants
a good job to earn a decent living, good health for himself and his family, a good education and decent future for his children. These worthy goals, in a an advanced economy like ours consumes most people's time and energies. What loooks like apathy to those fully involved in political questions is actually the efforts and energy required by most people to put bread on the table, clothes on their
backs and shoes on their feet. In this, Americans are no different from Iraqis, Israelis, Indians or Chinese. I have not met many Americans who are daily gloating about being a superpower nation.
To imply that unless a total collapse of our military and economic power is necessary to bring about the kind of change you are asking for will simply replace the hardship of Iraqi mothers, fathers and children with the hardship of American parents and their children.

I think we need to give John Kerry a chance to correct the mess the Republican party has gotten us into.We do not need disasters to teach us more lessons. John Kerry has been a first hand witness to another disaster in our country's history.We have to have faith that a person like that has a better ability to empathize with the sufferings of the Iraqi people than the Chickenhawk brigade that is ruling the roost today.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. That's like saying God sent Hitler to help the Jews.
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. Your scenario is Nader's very dream wish! ! Coincidence??
Who in their right mind would want things to get worse, besides Ralph (the neo-rethug) and his followers?

If he wins, Rove, Cheney, etc. would still be there and the rethugs would still find a way to continue their corruption.
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. the "things need to get worse before better" argument
is selfish. I'm not willing to let this country go to hell in a handbasket in order for things to get "better".
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. Ralph Nader is that you? n/t
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. You convinced me! I am voting for Bush!
Edited on Sun May-02-04 05:27 PM by Township75
I can't wait for this place to go down the shitter!
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. well, Mr. Nader. it ain't gonna happen!
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hehe...
I just love droping a turd in the punch bowl now and then to watch the ruckus it stirs up. ;-)

Does anybody remember a UFO nut named Gabriel Green who ran a write-in campaign for president in 1960? now THAT's who we need in the White House right now! Invaders from outer space to take our minds off al our problems. We could get Ray Harryhausen to do creature Dynamtion for the nightly news programs.
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. if the horizon wouldn't look so vaporized, your turd might even be
amusing ... nothing like a little nuke fun, eh??? WTF??? Turds may end up being allowed only in YOUR punchbowl ... :puke:
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. or...
We could just elect John Kerry and avoid all of those things.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
25. and how many more Americans need to die
good idea but I don't know if you thought it all the way through
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. The repugs are, at this time,
trying to find a way to blame Clinton for the mess in Iraq.
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BiteMeFrance Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Celebrating The Pain Of Others
I never thought I'd see the day that an American would HOPE for people to suffer in order to further their agenda. I guess winning and/or being right isn't as important to me as being able to watch people follow their dreams and reach their potential, no matter who is in the White House.
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Cromarty_Ladd1 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Celebrating The Pain Of Others
Edited on Sat May-15-04 11:08 AM by Cromarty_Ladd1
Actually, it seems to be a fairly common sentiment amongst the postings around these parts.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
31. the worse before better argument
Naderites were using that argument since 2000. Look at how well things worked out then. Bush is the worst thing to happen to America since the SUV. We must get rid of him immediately.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush has already imploded!!!!
Edited on Sun May-16-04 08:50 PM by Hippo_Tron
His approval rating is at 42% and FALLING! We can sit here and talk about how bad things are now and how much worse they will be in four years but the fact is that for many people things suck right now. People have lost their jobs and they know damn well why. People don't need another four years to see that this country needs change. People can see that this country needs change NOW.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
33. I would like to add
that the environment might not be able to take another 4 years of Bush policies. That alone is enough no make me determined to get him out THIS November.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
34. I agree if Kerry
wins he will be in the tough position of cleaning up tons of rightwing messes while at the same time being blamed for all of them by the same pieces of shit who help create them. I can understand the logic of this, but don't think we could possibly endure or maybe even survive another four years of this. The only exception would be if the election brings a Democratic Senate and House with decent margins and their willingness to be an actual opposition party.
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GOPFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
35. There are days when I agree with you...
...especially when I think of all the religious nuts who want to make this country into a fundamentalist "christian" theocracy. If Bush wins a second term, he'll screw up this country so bad that the GOP will be a minority party for a long, long time. But of course, I want what's best for my country so I have to hope Bush gets bushwacked this November and the Dems get a chance to save the country asap.
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methinks2 Donating Member (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
36. sure we do fizz
How about you sponsor me living in Canada until all this crap is over? Like communism, your idea is nice, but not workable. The problem with your thesis is that we're stuck living here while the neocons take us to hell with them. Of course the corporate guys are rich enough that it won't really hurt them, like it will hurt those of us who are barely 2 paychecks away from disaster and homelessness. Until I have a better safety-net I can't afford to sit back and watch them self-destruct. So I guess that means I'm voting for boring Kerry. Jeez, I hope he picks someone less boring as a running mate. The problem with the 2000 election is that the big guys picked the most boring possible guys to run against Bush. And, it looks like they're doing it again!
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
37. This reminds me of how wonderful Hitler was for creating a stable
Edited on Wed Jun-02-04 08:39 PM by NNadir
Germany with a liberal constitution.

OK, we had to kill twenty or thirty million people and have the Germans and all of its neighbors (except Switzerland) go through hell, but let's face it, the Germans learned their lesson. There isn't likely to be another Hitler there.

This has got to be the dumbest and most cynical comment I've ever heard. You aren't Ralph Nader are you?
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J2001 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. good concept but...
Good concept but if bush is relected say buy to your amendments and hello to more wars, maybe even a war on France, the future can not be seen.

Remember BUSH CHANEY 04 MORE WAR
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. Yeah, great
So all those who die in Bush's wars, and all those who are bankrupted because of the bad economy, and all those who lose their jobs and can't provide for their families - to hell with them, because it matters more that your political desires be fulfilled.

Glad to see you have such a concern for the working class there, bub.
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