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How will we respond to the London Underground Attack?

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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:25 AM
Original message
How will we respond to the London Underground Attack?
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 11:29 AM by melissinha
As we are an Activist Corps we need to recognize that although the attack on London was perpetrated by terrorists, it also reflects upon the leadership of our country, which we as a group need to dethrone.

Frankly, I wouldn't liken this to "an opportunity" but this is certainly something we, as a group need to respond to. As a unit. I am not a leader, but I think that we need to put forth a very careful sensitive message that also points out the failures and ultimate indirect culpability of the Bush Adminsitration. This is in no way a petty vendetta for us, we all know that the biggest threat to global security is our very own President and that his careless and greedy actions have put the world in peril and we need to respond to and address that culpability.


Just so you know I am also a citizen of another country (Brazilian American) and like many of our foreign DUers, know the power this country has with respect to global politics and security.

What do you guys think?
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Just a suggestion...
First find out who actually did it.

Some heretofore unknown group claiming responsibility doesn't mean they did it. They may just be opportunists.

There are several possibilities, but people only jump to one conclusion these days.
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SOteric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. True enough.
The IRA has been known to cause havoc in such ways in the streets of London and other strategic points in the UK.

Until a thorough investigation is made, we can do no more than hypothesize and speculate. I'd hate to have us going after the wrong group. It wouldn't be any more correct than when Bush does it.

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. The media will cover it to make the sheeple so afraid that they will
forget about Rove, Iraq and the rest of the domestic issues that might topple Bush. The administration will make sure of that.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. god I wish people would stop using the useless term "terrorists...."
eom
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mermaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I Think It Is Time We Realized
these people are striking back in the only way they can...they are taking their revenge in the only way that they can. and they will continue to do so, as long as we continue our current policies that cause hopelessness, deprivation, despair, and death to the peoples of other countries...they will do their best to bring that back to us. In any way they find that they can.

We are going about this all the wrong way.

We need to address the hopelessness, the despair, the deprivations...that our greedy policies bring to these people. We need to end those policies.

The powers that be, however, will never stop, because they are greedy, and they never get to see, first-hand, the results of their greed.

No, it's the little people like you and me who deal with...and live with the fear, the deprivation, the terror. The big guys are safe in their little bunkers.

My heart goes out today to my human brothers and sisters in London today...those who lost their lives...and those who lost someone they love. Today, we are all Londoners.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I like it
keep writing... we need to get it all out... so we can form a concise message....

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I also think that we need to weave in the things that the G8 summit is about and point out how Bush is refusing comply with the Kyoto and environmental standards...

Here's a though.. how about the pity card? I feel that is it hopeless to get George Bush to provide reasonable aid to Africa, its hopeless to expect that a man who has proven that tax breaks and the Dirty Skies Act are his policy where the environment is concerned. These are the ways in which he is undermining our health. But Bush will never experience poverty as the people in Africa and South America experience, but his unwillingness to address global warming and a host of environmental problems will reach him, he is not immune to that.
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sagesnow Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. You are so right.
We need to counter the rush to Bush and Blair as great leaders in these times of terrorist attacks and remind people that we are so so much less safe from terrorism with these two belligerent hacks we have leading us. I know someone on DU could put this so much more delicately- Would that person please write it and I will do all I can to get the word out.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Point of this thread
At least as far as I am concerned is for us to find all the possible topics and ways to address it as a team.... and then we can let a crack writer at it.

I think if we can work together we can cover a lot of bases and come to the best argument/message.
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. My opinion will probably not be read nor heeded but here it is..
a) No one knows yet who did this
b) No one knows yet why this was done
c) No one knows yet if this is the first step in something larger
d) No one knows yet if this is connected to the Olympic bid
e) No one knows yet if this is connected to the G8 conference

I think 99% of all terrorism is driven by economic repression and exploitation. You won't hear that mentioned anywhere because it calls into question our very way of life. But it makes sense to me.

The fact the 8 leading nations are in conference to figure out how to milk the world of its resources, oh excuse me, to help poorer nations get a leg up, is not lost on ANY terrorist organization.....
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cssmall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Kudos
You, my peer, are a voice that spoke truth today. I agree with every single word.

:applause:
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I agree with you as well
Not to mention:

Milk the world for its labor.

Absolutely. I myself have seen shanty towns.. i know what its like. You have very valid points.... we don't know the facts BUT we know how our governments have been contributing top economic repression and exploitation, hell they've already turned their sights on their own people.... Listen to Bush's worries about commerce and business... the assault on labor STATESIDE is also an issue.

frankly liek you and me, people in Iraq, Kenya, India wherever are just trying to survive and when someone threatens that or misuses us, it infuriates us and causes dissent and war.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I agree. I listened to NPR this morning and was
disheartened to hear all the talk about Al-Q and religious fervor. A few times they did mention that while responsibility was claimed it had not been verified. But then continued to act as if it were a cell of Al-Q.

I think it will be important to focus on the CAUSES of terrorism rather than the results. We need to address it proactively rather than reactively. Until we are prepared to admit our complicity in fertilizing the soil within which terrorism germenates we will never make any progress.

This has far more to do with politics and economics than it will ever have to do with religion.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well put...
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 01:32 PM by melissinha
I think it will be important to focus on the CAUSES of terrorism rather than the results. We need to address it proactively rather than reactively. Until we are prepared to admit our complicity in fertilizing the soil within which terrorism germenates we will never make any progress.


Furthermore, the PURPOSE of focusing on the causes of terrorism is to learn how to avoid creating new "terrorist causes" (as in crusade). As well as learning to diplomatically resolve or in the very least, not add to the fire of a terrorist cause.

I was really disheartened to hear a co-worker say "They stopped attacking us and moved the target elsewhere because we are kicking butt in Iraq". Man sometimes you wonder about the people here in Texas.... but I guess its so easy to just slap some "we are powerfull" justification on just to convince yourself that you feel safer.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Oh boy...I don't know how I would have
responded to your co-worker. That just turns my stomach sour.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. Ok then
Say we don't take a stance against Al Qaeda-like terrorists...

Ok ok. I am trying to collect thoughts here and so many are so compelling arguments and thoughts.

Lets consider a message based on reason. Can't go wrong with that. No boggling down the message with incessant statistics like our respectable Senators and Congressmen.

We don't don't know, as of yet, who the responsible parties are. We must not rush to conclusions regarding the motivations of the perpetrators of the attacks. We must focus on the true purpose of the G8. (hey guys I know you think that they just want to use Africa, but lets PLAY ALONG).
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. Skinner says
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 02:42 PM by melissinha
"We also hope that leaders of the world, including the leaders of our own country, will have the wisdom to respond in a manner that makes this kind of act less likely in the future. On days like today it may seem a distant and unattainable dream, but we hope that someday we can live in a world where this type of senseless violence is a thing of the past. We believe that the policies of the current administration have not made us safer, and it is well past time that they ask themselves if our country's current course of action is having the desired effect."

That is so well put... its delicate but suggests reflection on past action.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I read Skinner's article and agree completely.
One response we could do it to express out sorrow at this and also our hope that the leaders, bushie and Blair, will not use this for personal gain this time. I would like to be able to email the embassy with that type of message. Letters to the editor with a calm approach to the fear this will raise may also help and can help to spike bushies guns.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. AHH the Brittish Embassy.. good
Edited on Fri Jul-08-05 12:33 PM by melissinha
yeah I have been taking in all the opinion of AAR hosts and the like ..... from Ed Shultz, Sam Seder, Janeane Garafalo, and Mike Malloy...

Although Shultz makes me made sometimes... he has a point... we need to take a common sense approach to this. What do we do now... no flaming and screaming. We have now been in this "war" for two years what has this accomplished? What were the goals? Frankly because the polls showed a lot of citizens to be concerned about a long occupation you have the administration stumbling out trying to appease the people.. but guess what THIS TIME they are not all on the same page...THIS TIME the people are calling the shot and asking for answers.. you got one saying its almost over its going great, you 've got another saying its gonna take some time (cause he is trying to justify more appropriations) We've GOT THEM NOW. Time has passed and what do we know? They played on our fears and faked a reason for war.... But has that main fear been eased no. WE have NOTHING! All they have done is given us a color coding system... so far all I know... put on orange tinted glasses and I should feel safe.. the color coded system has been updated. Then they try this "I was lead to believe such and such because of intelligence that proved to be false... and I didn't INTEND to out a CIA operative when I talked about PLame" So for the TRILLIONS of dollars that you have spent on intelligence and reconstruction what do you really know?

I'll tell you what I know.... Halliburton and the other companies are GORGING their prices.. just ask the Brittish company Lloyd Owen who does deliveries oil in Iraq too.... I know that at least $8 billion are unaccounted for. I know that over a 100,000 Iraqis are dead. I know that over 1700 American soldiers are dead. I know that we know have horrible bankruptcy laws and the education system is bleeding. What have they done? The evidence I see can be summed up in one motivation:

Corporate welfare, hand over loads of money to Halliburton, Bechtel and even his Daddy's Carlisle Group.... They bombed Iraq and destroyed the infrastructure before they got Congressional approval so that they could give some work to and bail out themselves and their friends its all about MONEY. Its not about Jesus and its not about morality.

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johannes1984 Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. There needs to be.....
We do not want our kids living in this kind of world .We do not want the idea of being struck down by dark and heinous deeds ,anywhere,anytime, to be an idea which haunts humanity for longer than ourselves .But more than that we want no more of governments which miss their reason d' etre , to serve the people .Nations are groups , they serve people , they do not define people , nor do they supercede people .All people are equal and government serves them all equally .We cannot achieve this in our lifetimes , if we are being real, but we cannot accept that the human rights are just a nice piece of paper which work great in a motivational flyer .

Furthermore poverty and climate change must be dealt with , not talked about , they must all be dealt with on an international scale .And we all know china's not going to take the lead , so we must ensure the fiscal health of the US of A , so it can continue to speak and be heard .This may sound as a given , but if things go the way they are going now , as the herald intl tribune put , a major american financial crisis is not a question of if , but of when .

More than that we need leadership , and all those things will not do justice to the horrors of any terrorist attack , but in my view they are the best way we can try to ensure the troubles that are , remain just that .The price we would pay if they become the troubles to be , is one of a dark age we wouldn't want to know about , ever .....


,....but i might be wrong

who knows one day we might indeed wake up and feel like when we felt when we were kids waking up after a nightmare ...finding a world so much softer,gentler and nicer than the one previously perceived .

As for this president , let it be known they are amatuers , they are evil in their stupidity and greed , but nevertheless amateurs .Anyone with ability and cunning would have not grasped so low and dirty , as all amateurs the best way to deal with them is tick em of , push em in the corner and make them sweat....well in this case fall of a bike or blink uncontrollably .


Also a foreign DU'r , belgian ,dutch american , so if this sounds scary , my apologies , but i get worked up ....i've calmed down though after reading trough most of your posts :)
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here is my response
What happened today in London is horrible. No innocent civilan should be forced to face such death and destruction, no matter if you live in Great Britain, the United States, Africa, or Iraq.

My thoughts and prayers are with the 50 or more dead in London, the many more that were injured in the terrorist attacks, their friends and families, BUT I wil also be praying for the 100,000 innocent Iraqi's that have been killed, our US troops that risk their lives everyday and the 1700+ that won't be coming home, and the millions that suffer from injustice worldwide.

As the world heals from the tragic events that happened in London, they must remember that...

A child in Africa dies from hungry every 3 seconds.

More than 38 million people around the world are infected by HIV/AIDS, 25 million in Africa alone.

Extreme poverty means living on less than $1 a day, unimaginable to us as Americans. ONE in five people around the world survives on this amount, with few opportunities to earn more.

As much as people in poor countries appreciate development assistance, no one wants to rely on a handout they want to trade their way out of poverty but international rules make it difficult.

By remembering the suffering through the world and every nation coming together to fight this Global War on Terroism, a strong world community can be built.

Out of this long political darkness a brighter day will come.
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