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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:24 PM
Original message
Being Catholic is AWESOME
I am presently burning a "Powerful Hand" candle (St. Jude) to protect the Occupy movement from the evil of greed. This has it's origins in the "Mojo Hand" of Carrbean Voudoo, and is also a big hit in Hispanic culture. There is even a Mayan version. Catholicism is full of cool secret power.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Really?! like pope John II sexing atop the tombs of Peter and Paul but that's just me n/t
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Shallow
I've borne more intelligentslurs to Catholicism in my life. You come nowhere near my confirmation slap, in fact, you make me laugh. :-)
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. No,really, it's not: Think CRUSADES, monks screwing whomever in their medieval cells, and much much
MORE.
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thank You
For being interested enough to reply. However I was hoping for replies from Catholic Hispanics with knowledge of the secret path, or voudou people. :-)
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. you can burn candles symbolically
without being associated with a homophobic & misogynist church.
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yeah we do have problems
I remember a different Churh though. One that stood for the right of the poor to revolt. It cost Oscar Romero his life in El Salvador, shot while saying Mass. His blood mingled with the wine of his overturned chalice. I remember too much of Catholic missionaries paying for helping the poor by torture and murder. I have done nothing that comes close to their sacrifice.Have you? Please tell me.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. so if my ancestors did something noble, it some how makes my current bigotries ok?
how does my level of sacrifice relate to the bigotry of the catholic church?
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The Catholic Church hates gays and women.
But I guess it's had a couple of shining moments in its centuries of shitty behavior; I'll give you that.
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. the real church
Is its members. And there are many who don't support the wrong policies of which you speak and are working for change. But yeah, there is truth in your words. Sadly.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Well, the Vatican runs the show and they have been the bad guys for centuries.
:(
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think I found a website by that name. And any good vibes will help.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 10:02 PM by freshwest
Well, maybe I should have kept out of this thread, as I'm not Hispanic, don't do Voodoo and was never a Catholic, either. But I respect the good sentiment toward OWS and social justice.

Yes, I know that a number of Catholics have been murdered for standing up for the poor and indigenous peoples of the Americans in recent times. and that the nuns and priests who demonstrated against the SOA and those who laid across the railroad tracks in this country to halt the shipment of nuclear bomb materials, were sent to prison and served lengthy terms for their belief in peace.

And that the Church was part of the establishment that slaughtered the native peoples of the Americas creating the need for a social justice movement.

And their stance on life is consistent, even if I do not agree, nor do I agree with the huge power and riches that the Vatican represents. It may be diametrically opposed in fact, not in rhetoric, to the OWS movement calling for a society not sold into the system as it currently exists. The problem is very complex.

As far the traditional Catholic teachings on women's reproductive rights, they are at least consistent in always opposing the death penalty. Being brought up Protestant, I felt that any consequence of a private act is borne by that individual and between them and their conception of God or other forces beyond themselves, not anyone else.

And that government should be strictly secular to not give power to institutions that do not respond well to democratic means and accountability, such as religions and corporations. But I have not been harmed directly by any Catholic I have known.

I will not claim to be a believer in religion or philosophy at this time, so I cannot be converted to anything. Perhaps you would have better luck finding kindred spirits on one of DU's varieties of religion or other paths in the groups.

I believe that OWS is about a form of spirituality or consciousness raising that is not able to be defined my conventional religious groups although I acknowledge the power of it to do good and bad.

Good luck. Also, I lit candles when Scott Olsen was injured in Oakland until he left the hospital. And I think it is heard or felt in some realm, even if it is only within my own heart.
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Thanks
That was an intelligent and thoughtful reply! :-)
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. I always thought they were pretty kool as far as a religian. When
I was kid my best friends were Catholic they would always tell me I was going to purgatory and they would do the same things and get forgiven every week. They have bingo and you can pick up 50/50 tickets along with rosary beads at the church entrance.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. If you're gonna be a Christian, may as well go Old School.
Catholic or Orthodox.

Almost anywhere you go in the world you can find a place to attend Mass.

And it's fascinating to me how the Church incorporates local culture, or how local cultures incorporate the Church. It goes both ways.

The Church is its people even when the one-percenters are rotten. Same as the people of a nation. The Church has exactly the same sort of rot in its hierarchy that the USA has in its government. I hate the Church the same way I hate the USA, but most people in the church community, as with any random community, are pretty wonderful even when their leaders stink.

There are places where I wouldn't attend Mass again because the local leaders are hateful, corrupt, and/or dumber and more rigid than pet rocks, but not many places like that, or maybe I just don't go to places like that in general.

My mom's a wandering heretic, so I grew up pretty comfortable in any church or religion she wasn't actively at war with. Her war with the Catholics was over before I was born. She'd been thinking about becoming a nun, but then she ran into one of those nasty pet rock Priests, which set her off on her religious Odyssey taking us and my dad along for the ride.

My own kids have grown up in a thoroughly social justice left wing liberal Catholic community.
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unionworks Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I am from
...Rick Santorums hometown. One time Erik Prince was in Erie to visit him, and actually sat down in front of me in church. I got up and moved, I just got a very heavy bad vibe from the guy and I wasn't even sure of who he was. I stopped going during the Bush years. The level of hate and paranoia was incredible. I didn't believe in anything the church stood for anymore. The Benedictine Sisters are a different story. I came to the conclusion that if you leave, you are just making things easier for the bad people.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "...if you leave, you are just making things easier for the bad people."
Yep, I feel much the same way. One can have more influence from the inside. But it's the same as the world at large, sometimes you have to leave a place simply as a matter of self preservation and personal integrity.

I've visited churches with a very bad vibe, usually racism, homophobia, or other manifestations of hate. If I lived in those places I'd not respect these churches with my presence.
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. How do you have influence, when did you have any say as to who is your Parish priest...
Who the Bishop of the Archdiocese is, who the Pope is? The Catholic Church isn't a democracy, the people in the church are the flock, not the leaders.

I have very little respect for those who attend, and even worse, give money to the Church, all you are doing is paying for campaigns to oppress women and GLBT people, how you justify that, I have no idea.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. i have asked the same question several times and never gotten a real answer
the church is not like a country. every four years i get to vote to change my country. this is how i can change it from the inside. what is the equivalence of this within the church?
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Praying for change, I guess...
Of course, I would say that's about as effective as praying for rain.
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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Do you pay income tax?
If so, you help bolster the largest military machine on the planet.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. do we have choice in this? pretending choice free conditions
are the same as the ones with choice, is simply just pretending.
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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You could be a war tax resister
n/t
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. and being a war tax resister has the exact same amount of legal
problems as picking a more LGBT and women friendly church.

again, you are merely posturing. these issues are clearly different and i think most people of normal intelligence know this.
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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I'm just reminding you that your hands aren't clean, either
The OP is funding the Vatican mafioso, while the rest of us are funding the American Empire.

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. again, they are not the same thing. i have little choice who to pay taxes to
picking another church is not in the same category

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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. They're not in the same category, but you do have a choice
n/t
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. not a legal one. nt
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Oh please, that's bullshit and you know it....
We don't have a CHOICE in whether we should pay taxes or not, whereas Catholics DO have a choice as to who they tithe. If your argument held any water, we couldn't criticize those who fund the FRC, AFA, KKK, Aryan Nations, etc.
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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. The difference is that our choice carries potential consequences
Nonetheless, there are thousands of people in this country who have decided not to fund mass murder and exploitation.
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Look, don't talk about the 1% and their tax shelters in such glowing terms...
they are not to be emulated.
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Actually I don't, I don't make enough, I pay payroll taxes...
Do Catholics get sent to jail if they refuse to tithe? If not, what's their excuse?
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Priests who don't get along with the community don't last...
Conservative communities get conservative priests, liberal communities get liberal priests.

Our city is predominantly Catholic, and the majority population is of Mexican ancestry. The line between the church community and the secular community is often blurred.

Church affiliated community social services -- the homeless shelters, needle exchanges, protection of undocumented workers, even anti-war groups -- are strongly influenced by Catholic Social Justice teachings, and many of the workers and volunteers are Catholic.

I haven't seen anyone turned away from Mass because they are not handing over money to the church for any non-specified purposes. Catholic collections are pathetic compared to say, the Mormons, whose church leaders will turn the screws on anyone not tithing. When something in the parish desperately needs to get done, they seem to lean on very wealthy parishioners privately, and there are enough one-percenters that voila, a new roof appears or a crumbling building gets replaced. Nobody's ever turned the screws on me for not giving to the slush funds that protect pedophiles or support anti-gay marriage campaigns.

Our church didn't even touch the Proposition 8 issue, probably because of all the parishioners like me who were actively and very publicly opposing it.
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. As long as you don't tithe to the organization, I have no problem with you, but if you do...
you are financially supporting a bigoted organization and are no better than someone who donates to the FRC or AFA.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. isn't support in terms of membership still support?
i know that tithing makes it more concrete, but supporting a cause is still support imo
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. You bring up a good point, its just that to some people its like a drug...
they just can't quit entirely, so I try to sympathize with that.

Of course, my mother, being a good Catholic woman would actually agree with you, she hasn't set foot in a church in years, over both choice and GLBT rights among other issues.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. yeah, i mean there are def different degrees of support so i get that
like in theory i support hrc, but never give them money. however i am on their mailing list, so they can "count" me in amongst their numbers when convenient. i feel like this is true for the catholic church too
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Problem is that its really hard to "quit" the Church entirely...
I'm sure the local parish I grew up in still counts me as a member, even though the last time I went to that church was back in 1996 or so. I could attempt to get excommunicated, but then again, that's too much effort. I've been an atheist for over a decade now and don't go to any church now.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. i see your point. i def think getting excommunicated is WAY too much effort
:)
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Well I was thinking of sending the Pope a picture of my bare ass and telling him to kiss it...
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 03:47 PM by Humanist_Activist
but again, too much effort. Plus I'm afraid he would at first get excited, then disappointed when he realizes I'm too old.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. All that means is the the catholics are no different than any
other religion that took things from the religions that came before

All religions draw from the very first religion which is based on the Religion of Dragons.
For Dragons were the first gods.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. Being a Catholic, there are things I like
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 04:03 PM by mvd
The ceremonies and the masses are very nice. The call for peace is good, as are some other messages. But they have terrible stances on GLBT members and women, and one reason I consider myself a liberal Christian instead of a practising Cathlic is that I don't feel a part of the bad views.
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