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Why do so many people think its OK to lie about Santa Claus?

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:02 PM
Original message
Why do so many people think its OK to lie about Santa Claus?
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 04:03 PM by raccoon
:hide:

People who'd think it was terrible to tell kids that the stork brings babies think
it's perfectly OK to tell the kids there's a Santa Claus.

I have a serious problem with that. When I found out there was no Santa Claus, I felt
lied to. (IMO this is more often the case in a family where trust is already an issue.
Which it was in my family, we never talked about anything.)

I decided long ago that if I ever had kids, I wouldn't have them believing in a Santa Claus.

Another issue with Santa Claus: suppose a poor kid's caregivers can't afford a present she
really longs for. Suppose she's been a pretty good kid all year...and doesn't get the present
because her folks couldn't afford it. What does that teach her?


edited to align paragraphs better.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yay!
:popcorn:

Do a poll! Do a poll! :bounce:
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I'm with you, redqueen!
Save some popcorn for me!
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. (sigh) Why can't kids just have dreams and fantasies instead of being shoved into reality so soon
You receive the Dain Grinch award of the decade.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
50. Yes!
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh great, let's start up the "War on Christmas" meme again. (nt)
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. Someone starts it every year Like clockwork..
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't think any kid really ever believes in Santa. I didn't
At least I don't remember ever believing in him.

I remember pretending I believed in him to get cool toys...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You're wrong. I did, totally. So did my younger siblings.
And I was disappointed when he turned out to be, basically, a fun game. But I was never mad at my parents for pretending. It was fun while it lasted.
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poverlay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. I agree ~ Santa rocks. I really believe(d). My mom acted as though she believed until the day she
died. It made Christmas so much more magical and exciting than any of my friends'. My mom sat me down at the age of ten when she found my letter to Santa in the mailbox asking if he was real, and talked to me for a long time. The gist was: You can believe if you want, but if you don't, don't ruin it for others. I think it's a much better way and any reasonably creative person can explain why Santa couldn't get the perfect, or overly expensive gift. It adds so much. Those who have to ruin it for others need to sit down and shut it. It's not causing them any harm...
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. Same here. My mom's explanation:
I wasn't pissed at my mom.
She explained it very nicely to me when I came to her with doubts.

Something along the line that "Santa Claus isn't a 'real person', honey. But he's the spirit of giving and receiving, the spirit of good will and happiness that we celebrate at Christmas."

She's probably rolling in her grave to see what it's become in the nation.

An orgy of hype and TV advertising of cheap Chinese gew-gaws and electronics marked up 1000%.
:-(
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Same here. I pulled the beard off a department store Santa when I was two
My mother valiantly tried to explain he was one of Santa's many helpers, but I didn't buy a word of it.

So she hooked a thumb at my dad every time she said "Santa Claus" from then on.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
71. I Know I Didn't
I pretended because my parents seemed to like the whole thing. I mean, the story just never made any sense. I was BORN knowing reindeer can't fly, and going to EVERY KID'S house on Christmas Eve??? Ya right.

When my sister had kids she decided not to do Santa because of the lying thing. All was well until the kids went to school and then they WANTED Santa. So she did it. There's a lesson in there somewhere.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Corporation people? Or people people?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. What evidence do you have that Santa Claus does not exist?

Your post seems to assume this as a fact, but I don't see a foundation for it.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. +1
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. You can't prove a negative. If you assert that he exists, the burden of proof is on you. nt
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I do not assert that he exists

One can certainly prove a negative. There are no raccoons in the pockets of my pants. I can prove this.

I have made no assertion concerning Santa's existence or non-existence. I make no assertion requiring proof.

The OP asserts the non-existence of Santa Claus. I am asking for the basis of that assertion.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. same goes for jesus.......nt
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. FFS
Let childhood contain no fun or fantasy.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Do you mean the fact that he exists or the fact that he uses elvish slave labor to make his toys?
:evilgrin:
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. They were recruited from China and have better working conditions than those who make Apple products
:D
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
72. Yeah, I Mean
according to one of my childhood books, they sleep all year when they aren't making toys. I want that duty.
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. What will they say when the North Pole finally melts?
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. They'll have to relocate him to Antarctica or the Moon.
Edited on Fri Nov-18-11 12:48 PM by MilesColtrane
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. I did for my kids what my mom did for us,
which was to make it crystal clear from the very beginning that all those people dressed as Santa Claus were simply Santa's helpers, regular people who dressed like that because the real Santa was too busy, and he obviously couldn't be anywhere.

I had no problem with encouraging my children to believe in Santa when they were young, but anyone who tries to pretend that all the department store and corner Santas are the real thing are asking for trouble.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. ..
We don't do Santa. We get a tree and celebrate Christmas exchanging gifts and having friends and family over to our tiny apartment for dinner. I honestly don't think my kids miss Santa. They know the stories, we watch the cartoons on TV like the Grinch and Frosty and Rudolph. They've had their pics taken with the person who dresses up as Santa. We just like them to know their presents came from us. With no strings attached. They don't have to pretend to "believe." And they get plenty of presents.. But man if I tell my friends or family that they think I'm horrible for not letting them think some stranger invades our home and brings them something for "being a good little girl and boy."
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. What are you trying to say? There was a Santa, but physics got in the way.
The Physics of Santa and His Reindeer

No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

There are two billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't appear to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Rudolph Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second.

This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest
man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

If every one of the 91.8 million homes with good children were to put out a single chocolate chip cookie and an 8 ounce glass of 2% milk, the total calories (needless to say other vitamins and minerals) would be approximately 225 calories (100 for the cookie, give or take, and 125 for the milk, give or take). Multiplying the number of calories per house by the number of homes (225 x 91.8 x 1000000), we get the total number of calories Santa consumes that night, which is 20,655,000,000 calories. To break it down further, 1 pound is equal to 3500 calories. Dividing our total number of calories by the number of calories in a pound (20655000000/3500) and we get the number of pounds Santa gains, 5901428.6, which is 2950.7 tons.

The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see above) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload (not even counting the weight of the sleigh) to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison, this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth. 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each.

In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion: If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.

(Note: This is like 30 years old and I'm sure I have a copy of it that got sent by FAX dozens of times before the well-deteriorated type showed up on our FAX machine at the office.)
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. No doubt written by a phyisicist with nothing better to do.
:D
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. Or just insomnia. The calculations are rather simple, but it would take a while, even with a....
....4 function calculator, to come up with such a wonderful display of such knowledge. Personally, I'll bet it was insomnia. Been there, done that - up at 3:00 in the morning writing code in assembly language when I had a major college exam at 9:00 for example. Then again, I was probably stoned. That was a long time ago.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I've never seen that. thanks for posting. nt
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catbyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. My doubts about Santa were confirmed on 12/24/1962 at approx. 9:30 p.m.
I was a little kid and had set out cookies & milk for Santa and carrots for the reindeer by the fireplace then my Nana packed me off to bed. I was too antsy and crept downstairs to find Nana & my mom eating the cookies, drinking the milk, and putting the carrots back in their plastic bag. They both looked at me horrified and yelled, "Get to bed!" but the jig was up. I wasn't at all broken up about it--heck, I still got presents, I didn't care who from!

Diane
Anishinaabe in MI

:rofl:
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. I have 3 daughters. The oldest two both got to "play Santa" when they realized the truth.
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 05:33 PM by HopeHoops
They loved it. The youngest will just have to wait until she has kids. She's only 16 so hopefully that will be a ways off.

On Edit: One of the best wedding gifts we got ('87) was a gumball machine on a stand. We put a Santa hat on it and used plasti-tac putty to put on googly eyes and a red pom-pom nose. The absolute best part of "playing Santa" for the older two was getting to fill it with red and green M&Ms after the presents were laid out. The youngest has exclusive rights to that ritual now.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
62. Maybe his sleigh is pulled by neutrino reindeer?
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Love does not exist for some ........ does that mean it does not exist??
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. No, it just got smashed by g-force.
You are correct though. There are some people who just don't understand or feel the sensation of love.

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. With you.
My 'stranged husb,' who is a serial liar, was FURIOUS when I gently suggested to our daughter, after she'd asked,' that Santa was something like a wish; forget my language.

'Husb' is now in trouble w a judge, for deception. (Not the Santa deception!)
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Better to be safe -- raise your kids as atheists.
If they decide later they want to believe in something with no evidence, you'll know it's their decision, not childhood indoctrination.
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Major Nikon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. It's pretty hard to do that unless you're isolating your kids
Teachers, other parents, day care, and most everyone else your kids come into contact with will try to indoctrinate them with Christianity and they will even enlist other kids for that task. Not only that, they will simply assume they have a moral right and obligation to do so. However, if you try to indoctrinate their kids with atheist, Muslim, Pagan, or any other theology besides Christianity, get ready for a shit storm that's coming your way.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
56. My atheist child believes in Santa Claus. nt
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. Wow, Christmas creep. Usually this argument waits until after Thanksgiving!
:rofl:
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Lunabelle Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. Santa Claus is fun
I don't remember feeling lied to or upset about him not being real. I guess I figured it was just a fun tradition and I would gladly pass it down to my kids if I had any.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
30. It prepares people for the unfair shitstorm of life
If not me, who will my child learn about lies from?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. And because someone has to post it...
VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Thanks for the reminder!
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. I have always loved this.
It's brilliant and loving and inspirational. Kind of like Christmas. Thanks for posting it.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. I just saw him at The Mall. What are you going on about?
He was there with Rudolph and the elves.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
76. I used that argument on myself until I was eight.
Then I got Barbie dolls for Christmas, and I knew no one as wonderful and intuitive as Santa would ever bring me Barbie dolls. Sadly, they were from the first batch ever created, and if I had kept them, they'd be worth thousands now.

I used them as toy soldiers the kids on my block needed to shoot at. They did provide some fun for us, but Boy was I sad about Santa.

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nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. Because magic is a state of mind. There are ways to do it that can be very affirming.
I knew about Santa Claus so early I don't remember believing, but I did, and when I was older I was delighted to be "big enough to help make Christmas very special for the little ones" including sisters and some cousins. Reading them The Night Before Christmas was a place of honor in the family and I got to do it until the next little one could read well enough. We made cookies and I got to help them make the special Santa cookie, and I got great pleasure out of doing the "Is that sleigh bells I hear outside?" game. Any child who began to wonder was gently brought into the guild of magic-makers.

I have never understood the inability to experience wonder, either as its recipient or its creator. But then, I'm an elf, and we elves have always been wonder makers.


:hi:
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cemaphonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Yeah, part of it is a rite of passage
It was fun believing in Santa while it lasted, and then, it was fun being in the know about one of those mysterious grownup secrets.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. I am an atheist..
And if I'm ever able to adopt my child I guarantee you that he/she will be given the full experience. Most children, especially those who are adopted, have had the magic sucked out of their lives too early. I do not see any harm in trying to show them that it still exists.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
77. Happy holidays, elf.
Edited on Tue Nov-22-11 03:13 PM by truedelphi
May the joys of the season be with and around you.




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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Stop trying to tell me there is no Santa Clause


You should see a doctor, a shrink, a dietitian, anything


Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing.
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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. I fail to see the problem.
It's just a fun way to get kids excited for Christmas (and the cookie making can be a good bonding experience, it worked with me). What's the issue?
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm with you - I'm not a fan of telling false stories to children and claiming them as true
as a kid, you're supposed to be able to trust your parents, and to have them lie to a child like that is wrong IMO and caused me at least to mistrust adults for a long time after I found out it wasn't true when i was a kid.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
43. Good question... I am quite sure he gets ticked off
when people say he doesn't exist!
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
44. Good question... I am quite sure he gets ticked off
when people say he doesn't exist!
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
47. Hi, Raccoon! I don't think everyone does. In my family, we knew it really was our father and we...
Called him Santa after a couple of years of the 'wait for Santa' routine. It was like all the Christmas stuff, the pagan evergreen stuff, the little manger and the livestock, a total package. And the music. It realized it was a game, but we never confronted each other about believing it or not.

And as far as families not talking to each other, wow, I mean, the adults barely told us a damned thing about the world or even personal matters, talk about a generation gap. Two separate worlds, they expected us to figure out everything ourselves. Did cause some social embarrassment as we grew up.

It seemed like we just picked everything up by watching people at school and in the media. We didn't believe in that stuff in serious way nor did we take Christianity and Christmas that seriously where I lived as a kid, it was all like a kind of background thing. Never political, not the constant, dogmatic, hyper salesjob it is now.

Like watermelon and fried chicken on the fourth of July, turkey and thanksgiving, the old superstitions about what one had for dinner on New Year's Day, just celebrations, spice of life, whatever.

I did have a rather cranky relative who claimed I might get coal in my Christmas stocking because I was supposed to be innately evil or something, but I regarded her as a nut. Always saying things like 'Jesus is watching you' in case I might steal a cookie out of the jar when no one was there and that I was being punished if I got sick.

What I think you're talking about here is God's punishment, this judgmental act going on, scaring the kids. More of a reflection of that dysfunction you mentioned, than anything else. Like in my life, even as she'd drone on about that stuff, she was twisted.

I knew on some level, that Jesus wouldn't be counting cookies in some celestial book of earthly sins. More likely, he'd be saying,

'Hey, aren't those good cookies? Taste the bounty of the Earth! Enjoy life and love!' Not this thought police some people want. It's really their own neurosis talking. I'm sorry that they played the game with you in a negative way.

Later, I spilled the beans with my kid about the Tooth Fairy. Why? Because he caught me at it. I told him it was part of growing up to lose his baby teeth and the money under his pillow was a reward. He said that he wanted folding money when he lost another one, the little booger...

He asked me about these phenomena, this game that parents and other adults play with their kids about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, etc, as was played with them. I explained it was something a way to give them something played with us as kids. That the adults wanted a chance to see that look of surprise and happiness on a kid's face. That it was to share a little mystery and the joy that followed.

I guess people are growing beyond that now. Really, this won't be happening much anymore. I think that kids whose parents are in financial straits will get told the truth, not that they've been bad. Unless the parents are wacko, and they'd use any excuse to hurt their kids' feelings and keep control. Santa isn't the culprit in that.

Hopefully, they will stop trying to scare each other with divine punishment, and even all this other stuff that people are doing to each other. I think all families and groups have little rituals and traditions. As long as they're not doing damage or spreading a message of exclusiveness or intolerance, or learned helplessness, it's okay. IMHO.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. Thanks for the good and well thought out response. nt
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. Thanks for yours, I thought I'd wasted my time. Thanks for the thread.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #47
67. This ^
x 1000.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
49. is it mid-November already?
How the time flies :)
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MiddleFingerMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
51. Santa...
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... is a lie?!?!?!?!?
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(sniff)
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I'll be in my corner.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Sorry to burst your bubble, MFM. nt
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
54. FLASHBACK. Macy's ... 1995
My 4 year-old is shopping with me.
It is December 23 (or there abouts...)
I am obviously BUYING A CHRISTMAS PRESENT
for a relative.

My daughter is putting things together in
her mind....

Suddenly she is SCREAMING at me "IS SANTA REAL?"

"IS HE REAL?"

"TELL ME THE TRUTH!"
"TELL ME THE TRUTH!"

She is swinging from my arm as I try to
access my wallet and buy the present.

Yelling "TELL ME THE TRUTH!!"

All shoppers stop and watch.

I grab her by the shoulders and loudly reply:

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

Everyone in the department cracks up.

My daughter, realizing she is center stage,
drops the whole issue.

Christmas memories....

:P
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nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. *snort!* If you made that up you did a great job. I'm gonna steal it.
Okay not really, but it is a good story.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Can't make this crap up....my kids INSISTED on the truth, the whole truth and nothing but!
That time was NOT as bad as the time in the pharmacy,
when she was THREE, and ran her hand up under my shorts
while I was waiting in line for antibiotics for one of
her ear infections.

She blurted out to the seniors waiting for their
medicine that I "Wasn't wearing any UNDERWEAR!!"

"Of course I am", I said.

Her hand shoots all around my buttockular area...

"Nope, nothing there!", she announced proudly.

:blush:

There are many more...

Very funny at times, at times incredibly hard and sad.

Like when she wanted to know the particulars of cremation
when my father died.

:cry:

She's in college now, into her second year as a psych major...

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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
58. When I found out there was no Santa it shook me up so bad...
I couldn't shave for 3 weeks.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. So, you're freshly shaved today?
:evilgrin:

:rofl:
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. I shaved yesterday, thank you...
:P
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
63. Who Knows, and Why Is It OK To Insist There's a Sky Daddy Floating Around?
keeping a list of who's naughty or nice?
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
66. Santa Claus shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
Lies are bad. Period.
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mysuzuki2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
68. You mean that Santa isn't real?
does that mean I'm not getting my pony this year?
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charlie and algernon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
69. it didn't hurt me when I found out he wasn't real
In fact, I recall that leading to my tradtional hunt for the presents hidden somewhere in the house, which lasted several years. Heh, I remember getting in big trouble when I showed my much younger brother where the Easter presents were hidden. But even then, that didn't lead my brother to cry that the Easter Bunny wasn't real. Instead, he cried because he wanted his fishing pole NOW instead of waiting till Easter morning. :rofl:


I have no problems letting kids have their fantasies. They can handle knowing the truth when they're ready. I figured it out on my own and it didn't affect me for the worse.
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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
70. Santa kinda backfired on my fundamentalist mother.
I discovered he wasn't real when I found her hidden stash of "from Santa" presents.

After that realization, I extended that logic to the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy as most assume their kids will do...and God and Jesus, which she clearly was NOT expecting.

You reap what you sow, I guess. She'd taught me that I had to figure out for myself what was true, and that I couldn't rely on authority figures to tell me honestly.
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Dastard Stepchild Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
73. At this young age, Santa is being presented as a dude
When my children are older, I'll reframe it slightly, letting them know that Santa is more the embodiment of the secular holiday season - a symbol more than a real person. I'll just have to hope that this explanation suffices.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
74. Same reason I protected my kid from hearing about wars, murders and all kinds of BS
I wanted him to enjoy some fantasy and fun as a kid and he was well adjusted enough to not be traumatized when he found out his mom was really Santa. Any kid that is traumatized by the time they figure it out has some other crap going on in their lives.

I grew up the same way and I don't feel any damage was done to question why may parents wanted me to have the same.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
75. I never felt lied to, but have always wondered about this
And why do we raise kids on it.

It isn't quite necessary to the holiday.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
78. To me, it's all about the wonder of innocence of childhood
Personally, I had no problem when I found out. I'm fine with parents not teaching Santa, but I really had fun when I believed.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-22-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
79. At about 4 years old,
my daughter just shook her head and said, basically, One man, one night? No way that is possible. She also noticed that Santa's writing was the same as mine. So that took care of that. I am also the mom who claims to have forgotten to text the Tooth Fairy about the status of her lost teeth when I forget to put money under the pillow, so perhaps I am not doing a good enough job maintaining the fantasy.
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