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Patrick Stewart aside, what did you think of Star Trek: TNG?

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DerekG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:39 PM
Original message
Patrick Stewart aside, what did you think of Star Trek: TNG?
It occurred to me that whatever good will I have towards this series is concentrated on either the incomparable Patrick Stewart or John de Lancie's impish "Q". Marvelous creations.

Everything else--every other crew member, the antiseptic milieu, the constant technobabble--leaves me cold. What's your appraisal?
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JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Still excellent, 16 years after it ended.
Sure, the show had it's faults - the technobabble and the seeming sterility of the future as you mentioned - but there were a lot of things that are still stuck in my head as being so well-done even now. I'd have to say that Data might have wound up being my favorite character. His quest to discover, earn, and fit into his own version of humanity was handled so well 99% of the time.

The more I think back on her, the less I like Troi. Just the character seems... unnecessary in the longer scheme of things. She didn't really have any barriers set up in front of her (like Data's lack of humanity, Riker wanting a command but unwilling to move on from the Enterprise because he didn't know if he would make a good captain, Worf being rather isolated in a culture that was not native to him) except for the occasional "Oh, Deanna's vulnerable to psychic stuff, so an alien is going to invade her mind and make her evil!" which really isn't a barrier, just a plot device that got old.

Still love TNG, though. My second-favorite Star Trek series.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Troi started to annoy me and really wasn't that great of a therapist, come to
think of it. And I'm in the mental health field! :D

Beverly Crusher and the doctor who preceded her were much more interesting as female characters.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Totally agree about Troi.
She also had the annoying ability to "sense" whatever the audience already figured out.

I mean, when they're encountering a ship full of Ferengi, does she really need to say "Captain, I sense deception"?

She was particularly useless when it came to Picard, who always talked to Guinan whenever he had problems on his mind anyway.

I think Troi was mainly put there for eye candy - especially since she wore that form-fitting jumpsuit until season 6, in the episode where Jellico takes over and makes her wear the standard uniform.

Although I do think Troi being in the series did give us Lwaxana Troi. I found Majel Barrett's performance as Lwaxana highly amusing in almost every episode she was in.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Inner Light, was sublime.
The series had some truly great episodes. The technobable was ridiculous of course.


Picard Inner Light (solo flute)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE1Zo5Ljws0
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's one of my favorite TNG episodes.
I remember when I first saw that playing in some hotel room late at night. I couldn't stop thinking about what an excellent episode that was.

And it was deliberately named after an obscure Beatles song, too.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. I have to say that that's one episode I tend to skip when I see it in reruns
Never really liked it. It's not bad, but it's never really knocked my socks off, either.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. The Inner Light is TNG's 'City on the Edge of Forever.'
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought it was pretty good. I just recently finished the whole series.
Edited on Wed Sep-01-10 09:03 PM by Alexander
Yeah, the technobabble is a bit over the top, but it's mostly Data and Geordi who spout that stuff.

I did like the relationships between the other characters. Riker and Troi, Data and Geordi, Picard and Crusher, Worf and...just about everyone. There was a lot of growth and character development that wasn't there in the Original Series, and you didn't have to follow every single episode in order like Deep Space 9.

Wesley Crusher was really irritating in the first two seasons, but they reduced his boy genius role and it helped quite a bit. I liked when Ro Laren came on board because she didn't play by the same rules and didn't care what anyone else thought of her.

A lot of the episodes are really clever and have great writing. Some of them are so-so, and some of them are just bad. But I think Seasons 3-6 in general were fairly consistent, and Season 6 is probably my favorite in terms of having the greatest episodes. Season 7 got kind of shaky and inconsistent, and it felt like almost every character had some deep dark secret or broke the rules in some huge event.

While I think The Original Series was a great show as well, it focused on each individual episode as a morality play (the good ones, anyway) rather than focusing on character development. I liked that TNG had both really good episodes and strong character development.

Edit: On a side note, a lot of the minor characters in TNG were originally supposed to cross over into DS9 and Voyager.

-Ro Laren was supposed to become Kira Nerys in Deep Space 9.

-Nicolas Locarno was supposed to become Tom Paris in Voyager. They were both played by Robert Duncan McNeill.

-The main characters in the episode "Lower Decks" were supposed to be Voyager crew members. The Vulcan Torick, played by Alexander Enberg, acts and looks exactly like the Vulcan Vorick from Voyager, also played by Alexander Enberg.
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travelingtypist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. I was crushed when Michelle Forbes said no thanks to that DS9 part.
She didn't want to be "tied down" playing the same part for seven years. I had seen her when she played Sonni/Solita on Guiding Light and was blown away with how good she was.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Loved it.
Especially since I served Worf and Troi. :-)
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. I still watch them
a few really stink, but I like all the episodes...even the bad ones.

except for the actress in whatever that episode was that played Tasha's sister.
I'm sure they hired her for how she looked in that jumpsuit. But her acting was horrible.
That episode is only good to make fun of her. Whew, she was bad. We saw that one the other day. whew!

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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. I loved it overall.
Edited on Wed Sep-01-10 09:07 PM by proteus_lives
Excellent actors and plots.
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Flaxbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't know how regularly I would have watched it if it weren't for PS
I like the other Star Treks - Voyager, and even some episodes of Enterprise. Never got into Deep Space Nine, but that's my fault.

TNG really was made by Patrick Stewart. Though Geordie and Data were pretty cool. And I liked Guinan's appearances, too (I think that's how you spell it).
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. One of my favorite series.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's amazing how popular a series can be with such bad acting.
Levar Burton in particular was the worst. The absolute worst. Any time he had to say a line with any sort of emotion I'd crack up at how bad he was. The funniest lines were always when he was running down the possibility of this or that with the ship (you know, one of those lines which began with "If I could boost the phase inducers and get more output from the dilithium crystals..."). I have never seen worse acting from a regular character in any series.

Without Picard, Q and Data, there's nothing to watch - or at least nothing to listen to. It never bothered me to look at Deanna and Beverly, but both lost a lot of appeal when you could actually hear them speak.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. In the Star Trek universe, Levar Burton looks like Olivier compared to Avery Brooks.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I didn't think Brooks had much charisma. Made it hard for me to enjoy Deep Space 9.
Same with Archer and Enterprise (although that series sucked on so many levels).

Kate Mulgrew at least had a kind of Katharine Hepburn thing going for her. She was at least believable as a captain.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Bakula was bad, but Sisko took scenery gnawing to several levels beyond Shatner.
Janeway didn't piss me off, because I could imagine a rigid, tightass like herself making Captain in Starfleet.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. I only saw 3-4 episodes of DS9...
...one with "Red Squad," one with Sisko's son as an adult (time travel ep, something like that), the one with Q, and I'm assuming there was one more that I can't remember now. I hated the series from the start, but it wasn't because of Brooks.

I admit I have little to base this opinion on because I saw so little of DS9, but what I remember of Brooks doesn't begin to approach Burton for bad acting. Besides, Marina Sirtis was much worse than Brooks (IMHO, of course) too.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Really? You think LeVar Burton was the worst actor?
I never quite thought of it that way.

I agree the excessive technobabble was silly, and I recall reading an interview where Burton said he just tried to rattle off the really techy dialogue as fast as he could because he had trouble taking it seriously.

But I do like his interactions with Data, especially when they're light on the technobabble.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. He wasn't really given that much to work with as a character, either
Which can't have helped much.

His friendship with Data is really about the only thing I remember about him from the series beyond the basics of rank and position and whatnot.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. I do.
He's especially awful when he's aching for female company. The two Leah Brahms (sp?) episodes feature some of the worst acting ever recorded, all of it his.

This is just my opinion, of course, but I thought he was just awful.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. worse acting from a regular character
I'd have to go with David Caruso in whatever CSI he's on.

If it weren't for his sunglasses he wouldn't have a personality.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I don't know...
...a boring monotone like Caruso's isn't nearly as bad as someone trying to throw in emotion when he's not capable of it. Caruso is like Seagal - he knows he's limited and stays within his boundaries. Burton didn't.
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Bennyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. Best Star Ttrek series ever....
Just based on the babe factor it is the best. Risa? Who the hell don't like that? I love the Holodeck, Data, and the rest of the crew. But Counselor Troi was IT for me....


Hell I even like Wesley. I thought the creators missed the boat by not following Wesley to the Academy.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Sorry the original had the highest babe factor
Besides having way better costumes, the aliens and other guest were always hot. Kirk humped his way across the galaxy, and it wasn't with ugly women.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. Workmanlike perfomances, Fewer head-slapping gaffes, many more moments of GREATNESS..
All in all, it managed to crank out many more WATCHABLE episodes
than ST:Gen1 ever did.

I think the real TRIUMPH was that it managed to maintain the SPIRIT
of the show, and translate it into the culture of the late 1980s.
What other show ever managed to do that?


My overall appraisal: they had an IMPOSSIBLE task, and they
accomplished it.

I remain impressed to this day.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
20. Uneven. Some of the best sci-fi ever, and
some that was just crap. I'd give it a 7/10 - below Farscape but above Lexx.

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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. +1000
Same it didn't last long.








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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. Probably the best ST series.
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 06:05 AM by edbermac
1st season was uneven as TNG struggled to find itself but hit it's stride after that. Troi could be too touchy-feely but she was nice eye candy.

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
22. Loved it. I love all things Trek but this one is a particular fave.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. A lot of excellence mixed with a fair amount of turgidity.
Riker, we were led to believe, was a brilliant and charming guy. So why was Frakes such a doorstop in so many scenes?

Troi's perceptive abilities should have made for subtle and insightful stories--why was her performance so often limited to, "Captain, I sense hostility from that ship that just fired on us"?

The character of Data was a brilliant notion: a one-off alien being constructed to resemble us, but without a clue as to how to behave. Such a patsy would never have graduated from the Academy, eidetic memory be damned. Spiner showed that he could do anything, but as written, he was too often a lame punchline.

Worf? I have few complaints about Worf, and none about the actor. Dorn was brilliant, imbuing a part with more nuance than the scripts provided--but I wish that the scripts could have shown more about his upbringing and about Klingon culture in general.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. Not bad just wish they hadn't used a nother D***N Furiner
to play the captain!
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Far too much heavy handed moralizing for my tastes...
Far too much heavy handed moralizing for my tastes. Can't remember which episode, but my then GF and I were watching the program as there was not much else on, and I specifically remember thinking to myself, "my gosh... if I want this much sermonizing beaten over my head with a rubber-mallet of a story, I'll just go to church on Sunday..."

Also, *far* too utopic, clean, and antiseptic in its depiction of a future. Female crew members wearing high heels in combat? The internal and consistently overused deus-ex machina of the holographic playground? Too much for me.

The production values were nice, the set designs were good, and on an overall level the plots and dialogs were decent-- but torn apart by clumsy metaphor and award allegory almost every time I watched it,.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. You might have liked Babylon 5
Definitely not utopian but not dystopian either. Just... human (and alien). Better plotting as well with its five year story arc. It didn't have the Paramount production values but I can overlook such things provided there's a solid story. Acting? Hit or miss with Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas being the best by a long shot.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I own all 5 seasons...
I own all 5 seasons. I consciously avoided mentioning it to prevent an A vs. B war, but yeah... I own it, love it, and gloriously revel in its five-year story arc.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Ah, well, there you go...
I have three seasons (2-3-4) and will eventually have 1 and 5.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. In reference to your Jurasik/Katuslas comment earlier...
In reference to your Jurasik/Katuslas comment earlier, I though I'd add for your amusement...

I was geeking out one weekend and watched the commentary track of the season five episode, "A View From the Gallery" JMS recalled that a union gaffer was on the set for the first time and overheard Jurasik and Katsulas rehearsing their lines. The gaffer said to no one in particular, "how long have *those* two been married...?"






(The only reason I have all five seasons is that I received them all en-masse as a birthday gift some years ago, otherwise I'd probably have only 2-3-4 like you)
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yeah
Jurasik and Katsulas were clearly the acting talent in the show. The rest had just basic chops you typically see in TV SF.

Funny story: Buddy of mine was an extra in an episode and he said it was really odd seeing Katsulas smoking a cigarette in costume. He also said that Bruce is really, really tall. Taller than he looks on TV. And Lyta (Pat Tallman) is just stunning in person. His character had to "accidentally" bump into her in one scene and he was pleased that they got to do several takes.

You can read about his exploits here: http://www.thebarrens.com/keystone-4.html

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Highly overrated, but understandable since the comparisons with...
the original couldn't be avoided. Real actors instead of drama queens, complex story lines (but not too complex) a backstory (but not much of one) much better sets and props...

And not nearly as much sermonizing as in the original.

Everyone I knew loved it. Me, too.

But, the characters, except for Data, were two-dimensional at best, the story arcs were flat and often boring, and all aliens, friend or foe, were one-dimensional. It's as though the Borg were the model for the universe.

(And the almost inaudible rumble in the background added much to the effect.)

I know I'll be flamed, but DS9 took care of all those problems with a great backstory, solid characters, and good story arcs. After all those years of comic villains, it was great to see that Ferenghi, Klingons, and others actually had fully functioning societies. And personalities.



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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
46. DS9 is generally far underrated. n/t
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ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. My favorite of the franchise- except
that insipid Wesley Crusher. Wanted to punch him in the face!
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. It was one of about three long-running shows that I NEVER missed
an episode of. Loved it, love it.
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
38. It stayed bad longer than "Enterprise" did, but thankfully they didn't cancel it.
Otherwise we wouldn't have had some great episodes like "Inner Light."

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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
39. "Ship in a Bottle," "The Inner Light," "Q Who," "The Best of Both Worlds," "Brothers," "Redemption,"
"Conspiracy," "Sarek," "Lore," "Tapestry," "Remember Me," "Darmok," "The Measure of a Man," "Time Squared," "Cause and Effect"


Off the top of my head, all fantastic episodes that I love. And those were just the ones I could think of right away. :)
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JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. +47
All very excellent episodes and some of my favorites as well! :thumbsup:
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. Are you kidding? You have to ask?????
I'm in love with Jon Luc Picard....... and if I were android, Mr. Data......

(I miss it)
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
41. "These are the voyages of the starship Marriott"
I liked the show, but I never thought it was all that and a bag of chips.
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peopleb4money Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
43. The Borg episodes were the best
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
44. It's the best version of Star Trek.
Q getting after Picard's arrogant "we have developed beyond that crap" talk is quite funny.
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eyepaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. I am a bit more than halfway through the series set right now
In general I'd say I am impressed with how well it holds up. A lot of comments have focused (negatively) on the technobabble--but I remember high-fiving the buddies and taking bong hits whenever Geordi would rattle off a good burst! I love that stuff.

Of course I was studying as science (geology) major during its initial run, so that stuff was totally in my wheelhouse.

But we used to have fun with it as well, and talk about how when given an assignment Geordi would say something along the lines of "That's totally impossible, and would involve re-writing the laws of physics; I can't do it...unless...I re-configure the lateral sensor array."

Any mention of the "lateral sensor array" would result in much rejoicing. We also thought that Starfleet should probably invest a little R&D cash into their inertial dampers--those things were always on the fritz.

And Worf, well, he was really tough and impossible to beat in a fight--unless you needed it, then he'd fold up like a pup tent. (don't get me wrong though, Michael Dorn was great in that role.)
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