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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:16 PM
Original message
Do you know anyone who has committed suicide?
I know three people - all adults 40+ years of age - who have succesfully done so since April of this year.

There was nothing I did to cause it, nothing I could have done to prevent it, and I had no reason to expect it.

I am really pissed off at the choices they made - and the scars they left behind.



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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I did.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Can I ask a favor?
Would you go track 'em down and kill 'em for me?

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. That would be redundant but I have a serious answer.
This friend of mine was named Ian. He killed himself in a way designed to inflict maximum harm. He had a relationship with a woman. They broke up. Soon after, in his late 30s, he suffered a stroke. He went to rehab but kept leaving. Eventually he was committed to Bellevue for suicidal ideation. I helped get him out. The psychiatrist told the judge she thought he would be dead in six months if he was released. He was well-prepared and told the judge he understood the purpose and need of each of his medicines and he was released. He didn't get any better.

After a few months he called his old girlfriend and asked her to spend some time with him. I spoke with her after the fact. She said they spent two days together. The second night she went to bed and he told her he'd be in after he had some ice cream. She went to bed and he fixed a bowl of Haagan-Dazs.. He mixed it with all his meds, ate it and wrote her the vilest note I've ever read. He then climbed into bed beside her. She was already asleep.

She woke up the next morning and he was already cold. She called an ambulance and found the note before they arrived.

Ian was a good friend and a good man but this was the most hurtful intentional act I've ever encountered.

Inside the realm of suicide there are no known rules. My condolences on the loss of your friends.



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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thank you
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend Ian.

Two of my friends - a couple - left notes and it was clear that they had planned the event well in advance.

The third was impulsive, drunk and stupid. No note. Just a brief, cyyptic text to the spouse who discovered his gruesome body.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
56. Yes. Two. And they were both guys in their 20s.
And, yes, it does leave unimaginable devastation. And I firmly believe that if both of them had just hung in there, waited it out, they would have gotten past what was causing them such pain and gone on to live happier lives. They both had such promise. ;(
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #56
93. .
:hug:
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #93
134. Thank you.
They were both good friends of mine, and I still think of them often. ;( O8)
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sadly, yes. A few.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
119. I'm sorry n/t
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Tobin S. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sorry about your friends
They were probably in a state of pain that is incomprehensible to most people.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm sure you're right but
that's hard to understand when they left behind young children, elderly parents in poor health, innocents (spouses, neighbors and strangers) to find their gruesome bodies.

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Tobin S. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I don't know these people you are talking about. But I can speak from personal experience
as far as being suicidal goes.

I don't think that's something they did to spite or horrify someone. They probably weren't even thinking about the aftermath. They just didn't think they could go on anymore. I had two scenarios in mind. One involved a gun and the other involved a bridge. I wasn't worried about the clean up. It didn't even cross my mind.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. You're right
I doubt there was any thought of the consequences of their action. It was a selfish choice.

You might be interested to know that the impulsive drunk suicide I know contemplated jumping from a bridge before he put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. The funeral home was left to perform a minor miracle to make Daddy presentable enough for his children to say good-bye.

I'm glad you're still here among the living. Take care.
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Tobin S. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Suicide is not rational
It's usually an act committed by people who are severely mentally ill. I take three head meds now days.

I know you're angry and I doubt that there's anything I can say to change that. But if you want to talk about it in more detail feel free to give me a PM.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thank you
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not recently, but yes.
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. sorry for your loss. yes, I knew someone
the pain he suffered in life was tremendous...

I believe we would function better as a society if we didn't condemn suicide. People would be more apt to discuss it and find solutions to problems more often. The people that did decide to end their life could do it with help and compassion.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I'm sorry
No mother should have to tell her 7 year old child that Daddy was sad and now Daddy's dead.

No 10 year old should learn that Daddy took his life and wonder why Daddy never said good-bye.

No 82 year old father in failing health should be abandoned by the child in whom he invested 50 years of his love, his time, his effort and his resources.

And no 80 year old mother should be forced to find some way to rationalize the suicide death of her child.

We have responsibilities to the people we love and to the people who love us.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
60. You just don't get it, do you?
It's clear you have no idea how debilitating depression can be. I hope you never experience it.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #60
88. I have more than a passing acquaintance
with depression since I had early childhood onset PTSD after witnessing the death of my younger sister in an auto accident.

But you're right. I don't get it. I don't fucking get how a parent can choose to inflict the trauma of his suicide on his young children and leave that to scar them for life. It's a short-sighted selfish decision. There are other better alternatives. OTOH, maybe those kids will be better off in the long run without such a selfish, irresponsible, and self-destructive parent. Maybe they're actually a little bit relieved that the SOB is gone.

I believe the suicide of the impulsive drunk was an effort to control and manipulate from the grave and inflict a sense of guilt. He was no longer able to intimidate, dominate and control his spouse. She'd had enough and was leaving. He threateed suicide but didn't get the response he wanted. She didn't come running back to take care of him. She called the authorities and asked them to check on his well-being. They did. He responded with rage. His final words and texts weren't words of depression. And they did specifically indicate a desire a leave a legacy of guilt.

No, I don't fucking get it. The dumbshit was a selfish SOB who apparently gave no thought to the damage he was inflicting on his young children. He just wanted to get revenge on his wife and make her feel guilty. Depression in and of itself cannot explain or excuse what transpired.

The couple I know who committed suicide wanted to be together forever. They were 60ish and one was having health problems. It was apparent that they invested considerable time and effort in planning and accomplishing their suicides - and in living some of their dreams before doing so. They were happy together during their last years and days. Their actions were romantic in an utterly tragic sense.

My experience is that you cannot assume that depression is the driving cause of all suicides. But I guess it does offer an easy way to understand an irrational act.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
82. think of it in a different way...
with all these wonderful things on your list to tether a person to this earth, that person still cannot bear to exist here.

It gets that bad.

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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes. n/t
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
68. Yes.....n/t



Tikki
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Two - one attempted and one success
I'll never understand why they did it but there was nothing I could do to prevent it. It just sucks.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Yes, it sucks n/t
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. yeah, it hurts
Two of my best friends killed themselves within a few months of each other about two years ago. I still haven't come to terms with it, and it still fills me with a lot of anger. I don't know what to tell you... it's rough. I was angry with myself about it for a long time, and angry with our mutual friends (it seemed like we should have been able to do something), but that's all gone now. Now it's mostly just sadness left.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I'm sorry for your loss, your anger and your sadness
Between the first two suicides and the third suicide I lost a friend to a ruptured brain aneurysm. She would have done anything to survive and to watch and support her two young sons grow into young men. That is such a contrast with the suicide that left young child survivors scarred for life. I'm especially angry that a parent would do that to their children.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I don't think it's something you can ever make sense of.
Neither of my friends (in their 30's and 50's) had kids, but they did have parents and siblings. There's just no way to understand why someone makes such a decision. We can judge, but it won't help anything to do so. A friend of mine was pregnant with her first daughter when the father killed himself. I don't know how that must affect a kid, but I'm sure it's not as bad living your whole life that way instead of having to come to terms with it when it happens. I just don't know what to tell you... life's really a piece of shit sometimes.
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JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Three people in the past, didn't know one of them all that well but knew the other two.
One shot himself shortly before high school started, one shot a couple of girls and hurt them pretty badly before killing himself shortly after I graduated high school, and one threw himself off a cliff after I graduated college. All sad instances, and something that nobody saw coming.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. If there is one thing that I am thankful for
Edited on Wed Aug-11-10 11:28 PM by Coyote_Bandit
it is that no one else was physically hurt - the only physical damage was to the folks who were looking to leave.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. I knew five people who committed suicide. They were each
in their early 20's when they did it, except one who was still a teen. One of them was my youngest sister's best friend. It happened almost 20 years ago, and it hurts her to this day.

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Sometimes the pain lasts for years
When I was young my younger sister was killed in an accident. It took me many years to come to terms with her loss. That's probably one reason why I am soooooo angry at the impulsive drunk suicde that left young children as survivors.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Thank you, C_B. And I am sorry for yours.
:hug:

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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. I know a few who drank themselves to death
No amount of lecturing from doctors or pleading from loved ones and friends could dissuade them from their course of slow self destruction.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Slow suicide for sure
A different kind of loss but a loss none the less. I'm sorry.
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Two for sure, and possibly a third.
The two were acquaintances more than friends, though one was a family member of a good friend, so I was affected more by her pain than by my own dismay.

The third, I'm still not convinced he actually, intentionally killed himself. I think he was self-medicating, and it got out of hand. He was one of my oldest friends whom I'd known since first grade.

It's sad to have lost these people, to think about the times we might still have had together and the potential they might have achieved - but I can't be angry with them. It is ultimately their life and their choice. While I certainly would have tried to talk them out of it if I could, I can't dictate to someone else what they can and cannot do with their own life - just as I wouldn't have someone dictate to me. I don't believe that we are beholden to others in what is most uniquely, most personally, our own - nor that someone should continue to endure unspeakable pain simply for the sake of others. I have no rights over their personal choices in this regard, just as they have no rights over mine.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. I suspect
that the impulsive drunk suicide I know was self-medicating. I don't think he would have put that gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger had he been sober.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. I fortunately don't.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. A few short months ago
I would have said the same thing.

May you never share my experience.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. Yes
The one that stands out is my step-daughters mother. She had any number of problems I won't go into. The most horrible moment of my life was waking those girls up to tell them the news that their mother was dead-- my husband couldn't do it.

But quite a bit of time has gone by, a lot of anger has faded, although the scars are always there. I was talking to one of the girls the other day about it for the first time in a long time. They are adults now and I can still see hurt and confusion, they work though it as best as they can.

This time, I talked about how alone that woman felt, how worthless, in so much pain she moved beyond pain if that makes any sense. How she was so far into to the black she may well have truly thought that suicide was the best thing she could do for her daughters.

She didn't leave a letter, she left a tape recording.

I believe that Survivors, at least in this case, after the rage and the contempt and the frustrated love, need to find some sort of meaning; not reasons, you can talk reasons for hours, it's hard to find meaning in an act that causes that kind of pain.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Thank you
I'm not sure how one goes about finding meaning in such an act - but it makes sense to me that finding meaning is more important to survivors than finding a rational explanation.

I'm sorry you had to tell those girls that their Mother was dead. It has to be hard to watch them continue to try to work through that trauma all these years later.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. Two suicides I knew were in their twenties.
One was post-partum depression. She was far from home with no friends or family nearby. Her husband was not very supportive. She saw no way out of her pain.

One was an Iraq war veteran and a friend of my son.

The third was a depressed fifteen year old. She was related to me by marriage.

When I think of the youth of these people, it makes me sad. If they had had help, they might still be here, leading healthy, happy, productive lives.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. So sad
I'm so sorry for your loss.
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. No, but I know someone whose brother killed himself, her sister was murdered, and another brother
killed himself because he couldn't handle it all. She said depression runs in her family, and I think she's been working hard to be ok after all this tragedy in her family.

And my friend's boyfriend's brother killed himself. He was bipolar and he'd tried it in the past. His brother was devastated, felt that he should have been able to help his brother, to prevent it.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. I cannot imagine
losing a sister to murder and two brothers to suicide. I'll send good warm thoughts to the surviving sister.

The mother who is trying to rationalize her son's suicide has decided he must have been bipolar. Maybe he was - but it was undiagnosed and I didn't see any evidence of symptoms during the decades I knew him. I knew him to almost always have a big smile - though he was impulsive and didn't handle frustration well.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
35. My dear Coyote_Bandit...
I am so sorry for your loss...

My brother-in-law committed suicide several years ago. He had colon cancer. He was an independent strong man, who was proud of his strength and intelligence. He was a contractor. He'd whipped his alcoholism and cigarette habits all by himself.

He'd undergone surgery to get a colostomy, and that is a huge, permanent body image change. He was undergoing radiation treatments that were supposed to shrink the tumor down to the size where it could be removed. Apparently he was in a lot of pain, and I guess his Doctor was not treating it appropriately. Or maybe T hadn't told him; we'll never know.

Anyway. One night my husband got an email from him. T just said he wasn't having fun any more. That was all. My husband tried to call him, but it was too late.

He lived hundreds of miles away from us.

It took me a long time to come to terms with it. But my background in nursing really helped. My husband doesn't say much. I suspect he misses his brother. He does tell me that he dreams about T and their parents from time to time.

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:09 AM
Original message
I suspect that
the couple I know who committed suicide may have done so for health reasons. One was in poor health and they were in their late 50's/early 60's. They wanted to be together forever. It was obvious that they had planned the event for some time. I don't understand their choice but I respect it. I can't say the same for the impulsive drunk who left young child survivors.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-10 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
38. My only older sibling.
Mother to a 6 year old son. His father died weeks later.

Coping with mortality is a tricky process in any set of circumstances, but the deliberate taking part is infinitely more challenging. My anger was rooted in not seeing it coming when I should have expected it and not being given a chance to be to prevent it. Anger is also a good shield to the depth of pain in the loss. Scars remain but the shock of them fade with time.

Be patient with yourself, that's a lot of loss in a short period of time.

Take care as only you can of you.

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. Thank you
Having lost a sibling I have some understanding of your loss. I'm so sorry.

Perhaps anger does protect us from recognizing the depth of the pain.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
40. Younger brother of one of my good elementary school friends shot himself before he was 20,
after a spat with his girlfriend; at the time, he lived about a block away from me, and I'd run into him about once a week and chat briefly; I wished he'd opened up more

About twenty years later, I had a very friendly neighbor a few doors down in my townhouse block; we'd shoot the breeze pleasantly for a few minutes three or four times a week. One day, she said she'd loaned all her retirement money to her son to start a restaurant, that it had failed, and he didn't plan to repay the money, so she didn't know what she was going to do. I never saw her again. After a couple of weeks, I asked somebody if they'd seen here: well, no, she got in her car, drove a bit down the road, parked, and blew her brains out

Last year, my cousin did himself in. It was an ugly situation, and that was his solution. I'd been on the phone with him a few times during the year before, but he really wasn't open about his problems, so I never knew what was going on

I figure all of these were "controlling" behaviors: my friend's brother was getting back at his girlfriend, my neighbor was getting back at her son, and my cousin was also getting back at some people -- but I won't go into any details on that one
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Suicide as a controlling behavior
That's exactly how the surviving spouse of the impulsive drunk suicide described the sad event to me.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
41. Far too many
I can think of 4 right off the bat - the most recent was a close friend who blew her brains out at her kitchen table. I'm not pissed at any of them. I understand what that feels like. What it feels like to believe that your loved ones would be better off without you. It's not true but it can seem it to the desperate.

I've also lost a whole bunch of friends to murder and a bunch more to drug OD's, alcohol and sheer stupid accident. I'm not mad at anyone. I just miss them all.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. I don't understand
how a father could believe that his 7 year old child would be better off with him dead. But maybe he did believe that. Clearly he wasn't rational.

I'm sorry for your loss. I too miss my friends. Maybe someday I'll find it in e to forgive them for choosing to take their own lives.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. No, it's not rational
There is so much pain in a suicide. And of course, the pain and devastation they leave behind is horrible. My girlfriend who killed herself had lived through her mother's suicide. Same method. Gunshot. You'd think the last thing she'd do to her children would be the same thing. Yet she did. Her daughter was almost exactly the same age as she'd been when she lost her mother.

Why? You have to wonder. But as you say, it's not rational. It's an act of desperate pain. I'm sorry for your losses as well. Nobody wins. Especially the children left behind.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
43. Yes, but I am not pissed at them. What they did hurt a lot of people, but...
the point wasn't to hurt, it was to ease their own pain. Bad choice, but they were not in the right mind to make good choices.

Not all suicides have the same causes, but most are tragic, not evil.




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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. You're right
Tragic.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
46. No, but I prevented one 20 minutes ago.
I'm not kidding. I was just outside with some neighbors when I noticed a young woman standing on the ledge of a bridge, clearly looking to jump. I pointed her out and one of my neighbors called 911. By then, a big crowd had gathered and thankfully, the cops were able to pull her down. I hope she's okay.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. Thank you
One of my friends could have had a hero who intervened to save his life. Didn't happen even though it was known that he was contemplating suicide.

I too hope she's okay.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
48. Yes. He was 15 yrs old. His name was Josh.
He was in my (small) freshman class and I thought he was happy. He was considered the class clown, he was popular, and even the senior guys took to him. When he started to make dark jokes about ending his life, people just laughed it off. He never made these jokes with me, but we were closer in middle school than HS. Still, his suicide was a horrible shock.

The funeral was awful. The casket was closed because he shot his brains out. The room was packed with a bunch of confused kids like myself who had no idea what the hell just happened. I remember feeling confused and hurt...I couldn't stop crying. Many of my classmates had already moved on to the anger phase of mourning and they yelled at the casket. I hate that they expressed their emotions at the funeral because that's the last thing his family needed to see/hear/remember.

Am I pissed off for what Josh did? Honestly, I am. I have always been angry. He shot himself after a fight he had with his mother over being grounded during the summer because he had to attend summer school. When the back story made it through the gossip chain, I was livid. How dare he do this to his own mother...or his father, or his little sister, and to his best friends, to his team mates, and to everyone who cares about him. It turns out he called a few friends before he pulled the trigger...he wanted to tell them goodbye, but they assumed he meant for the summer, not forever. I hate that they felt guilty for not stopping their friend from doing something they never expected him to do.

For all the wonderful memories I have of Josh, I have probably 10x the amount of "WTF??" feelings regarding what he did. Ultimately I hate that his depression wasn't noticeable to me and my classmates. I also hate that we all had to learn the hard way that joking about suicide isn't a joke.

Sorry for the long post


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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. I'm pissed off
because of the wounds inflicted on survivors who could not have prevented the act, did not cause it and had little if any reason to anticipate it. THose wounds are especially deep and long-lasting for young children.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
52. Yes, seven as of now
I gave up blaming myself or thinking I could have done something after the first few. It's a terrible thing. Sorry for your losses.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I'm really sorry to hear this, johnnie...
That's a lot of people. I know Cleveland is a depressed area, but I had no idea it was that bad...

Maybe they were elsewhere...

My condolences on your losses...

Please take care of yourself, OK?

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #52
89. .
:hug:
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elana i am Donating Member (626 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
54. yes
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 02:55 AM by elana i am
one of my high school friends, who was a total *daddy's girl*, came home from school one day to find her father had hung himself in the garage. he'd made some bad financial choices, and the note he left said the world would be better off without him.

you could say the friend i knew died of a broken heart that day. she never recovered from it and even though she had several years of psychological counseling, gradually transformed into a very paranoid and controlling person.

and a relative's husband killed himself recently. he was a drug addict with access to a hopsital pharmacy and he got caught.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #54
91. At least the child survivors I know
did not have the experience of finding the gruesome body of their father. Though they did view him before burial.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
55. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for those who've shared their grief and pain
here. I never knew anyone close who killed themselves outside of gradually through drinking, drugs or cigarettes, but had a couple of acquaintances who did.
But that is not the reason for my thanks. I came somewhat close to making that same decision on at least a couple of different occasions in my life; as recently as last December and had even started putting the plan into action. A fellow DUer, a stranger really, somehow sent a kind and caring PM out of the blue, not having any idea that I was in that kind of pain, and it helped snap me out of it. I will be eternally grateful to her....Those thoughts have been creeping into my mind and soul again recently, and your stories; all of you, have made me start thinking very carefully about the ramifications of following through on those thoughts. Thank you...Thank you ..Thank you....for your generosity in being willing to relive such terrible pain. You may have all contributed to saving my life.........Ron
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #55
92. Take care
I'm glad you're still here among us.

PM me if you need to.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
57. My ex-husband took his own life on May 13th of this year...
I suppose you could say I caused it (if you were a complete and utter moron who has no grasp on reality) but in the end, despite the fact that our marriage was over, he had custody of the three children who loved him 33% of the time and the house we bought together (and the means to pay me for my half of the equity) and a future to do with as he chose. He was selfish and thoughtless and I will never forgive him for what he did to our babies
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #57
94. .
I am soooooooooo sorry.

I too believe it is unspeakably selfish for a parent to inflict the scars of suicide on their young children.

A hug for you and your babies.....

:hug:
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
58. Guy I worked with
He broke his neck. After a year of surgery and rehab he finally got enough motor control back to do himself in.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #58
98. I'm sorry n/t
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
59. No. Cowards' way out, all due respect to your friends. nt
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #59
69. Uninformed fucking bullshit.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #59
99. IMHO, there were better alternatives n/t
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
61. Yes, a friend of mine. She had had depression issues for years.

She OD'd.


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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #61
100. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
62. Yes. My best friend, a quarter century ago
There's not a day that goes by that I don't think of him, and the memory is always accompanied by the image of holding a pile of sand in my hand with the grains slipping between my fingers.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #62
101. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
63. Yep.
Sucks.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #63
102. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
64. My brother, my Mom, and an uncle.
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 08:09 AM by bif
And one of my best friends.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. that is so sad. i am sorry for you.
my mom committed suicide. my brothers refuse the information, saying they dont know, so.... they leave her death blank. even though i have told both i went to funeral home to read autopsy. my father lied about her death. said brain aneurysm. i didn't believe him. we all pretend, but since the first day, with his explanation, we have never talked about "how" she died.

i say this, cause it is a big secret in our closet, the only concern i have in sharing with my children, is them thinking it is genetic and sometime low, putting themselves in the same place as mom.

because depression is genetic. but not moms story.
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BeachBaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #64
76. I'm so sorry.
:hug:
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #64
103. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
65. Yes....
My best friend for years took her life with a gun to the head. I was the one who found her even though I believe her intent was for her SO to find her but he could not be bothered from running around with his girlfriend.....so when we had not heard from her after she went to her Mom's home out of state....I rode out to her house and saw her car in the yard..... :cry:....and that is all I care to post about it.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #65
104. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

I cannot imagine the trauma of such a gruesome discovery.

:hug:
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femmocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
66. Yes.
You are so right. It leaves scars that never heal.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #66
105. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
70. Yeah, guy I knew shot himself in the head at 18
He was a good kid, just had a horrible family. Mom was on heroin, dad was a hell's angel.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #70
106. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
71. My cousin. August 25, 2001.
Hanged himself, right outside the room where his wife was, so she'd be sure to see him the moment she walked out. He was 37 years old. They have a teenage son.

I miss him terribly, and still speak to him all the time.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #71
107. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
72. No but my father made a failed attempt.
Right in front of me. The bastard cut his wrist and walked into the living room and told my mother and me that "this is what we did to him". I was 10 years old.

I never got over this selfish act. I don't understand why he wasn't hauled into jail for child abuse instead of taken to the hospital to get a few stitches. His wound healed...mine never will.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. Jesus. What a terrible thing to do.
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 09:38 AM by Mad_Dem_X
I don't know what to say... :hug:
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #77
168. You don't have to say a word! The hug was enough.
And I appreciate the acknowledgement that it was terrible. He was a very troubled man.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #72
108. I am so sorry
what he did to you was abusive.

Take care.

:hug:
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #108
169. Thanks Coyote Bandit. n/t
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
73. Yes--two people
The first was an 18 year old boy who'd been a close friend of our oldest son; seven years ago. He had spent a week at the beach with us in 2003, so we had gotten to know him a little better than the kids who just sort of run in/out of your house during those teen years. The following December he took a gun, went into the parking lot of the small park across from the high school from which he'd graduated that spring (my son's senior year) and ate the gun. My son was asked to be an honorary pallbearer. Going to the funeral was one of the saddest days of my life. The parents ended up divorced several years later. His younger brother--same age as our youngest boy--seems to be doing well in college.

The second was a girlfriend from high school--a fellow cheerleader (40 years ago)--who jumped in front
of a train 14 months ago. Everyone was shocked. Nobody could figure out why she had done it. No note.
Turns out, her husband--and the love of her life since middle school--had pleaded guilty to tax evasion
and last November was sentenced to 10 months in a federal penitentiary--where he is now serving his time.
He was caught keeping a duplicate set of books for his import business. This guy was a football player, Mr. Personality, worked for a major brokerage firm; they'd lived in Tokyo and London during the height of his career. I suspect now, as do most people, that she was humiliated by what he did and couldn't face
living with him--or leaving him. Just a guess. She was 57 and left two adult children.

It's so hard for the families and friends of people who make the choice to commit suicide. So hard.

:hug:
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #73
109. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
74. A guy I did a few plays with a number of years ago.
Typical suicide boilerplate: He was a nice guy, very friendly, talented, and he earned the friendship and respect of everyone he met in the course of the plays we were doing. Never thought he had a care in the world. A year or two after the last time I saw him, someone told me he had committed suicide. I was as shocked as everyone usually is when they here news like that.

He didn't seem the type.

And that's the lesson: there is no "type".
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. You just reminded me of a third person I know--a fellow actor.
We did a two woman play years ago when I was living in Nebraska: Me and Jezebel.
We had great fun. She played Bette Davis and I played Elizabeth Fuller (the playwright).
http://www.amazon.com/Me-Jezebel-Bette-Dinner-Stayed/dp...

A year or so later I heard she had committed suicide from the artistic director of the
theater. She was a lesbian and she'd been through a couple of very difficult and
sad relationship breakups (one when we were doing the play). Then her mother died from cancer
and her brother was dying, too (I don't remember the details of that, except that he was really pissed at her because she was healthy). Anyway, she checked into
a hotel in town and took a bunch of pills. By the time she was found, she was too far gone
even though she was still alive when admitted to the hospital.

She was seriously depressed. Too many losses and too much pain and apparently, couldn't see where any joy was going to be coming into her life.

Very sad. She was really talented.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
112. Again
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #74
111. How true
There is no "type".

I will always remember the smile of one my friends. And that smile was the one thing most mourners commented upon at his memorial service.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #111
139. One thing I remember fondly was that we referred to each other by
a gallant, playful "Sir". All the time.

"Acting with you is a pleasure, sir!"

"The pleasure is mine, sir!"

I miss that...
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
78. One yes and one strongly suspect
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #78
113. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #113
130. Thank you. They were both a long time ago, but that doesn't diminish it much.
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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
79. When I was working at the mall
I handed one of my employees his paycheck. He cashed it, bought a pistol, and went to the park to shoot himself in the head.

This guy was a tough nut to crack,but no one saw it coming. He was about 19.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #79
114. I'm sorry n/t
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
80. Yes - three. One was most strange. 20 years old
he had just become engaged to his girlfriend of 2 years.
The day of his death I spent about three hours in the afternoon with him, lunch and a few beers etc. Light chatter, good fun
He was as up as a person could be.
The next morning at work I had the radio on and heard the announcement of his death. He shot himself in the head.
No idea why. His family seemed totally ashamed. Never could talk to them. His brother wouldn't talk of it.
Every now and then 40 years later I still wonder what happened.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #80
115. I'm sorry n/t
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BeachBaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
81. I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this.
My best friend (age 16) killed herself in July of 1985; but there were two more suicides in my little world. The father (age 41) of one of my church/school friends, in September of 1984.....and a boy (age 18) from my neighborhood, in May of 1984. In just 14 months, all three were gone - of their own volition.

My girlfriend didn't leave a note; but, three days before, our little group of girlfriends had spent the day tubing down the Delaware River, and she informed us that her parents hated her, she couldn't live up to their expectations, and she didn't want to live anymore. We talked her down - or so we thought. That was the only warning that anybody had, as far as we know.

As for the other two I mentioned, they left notes. My church/school friend's dad also left an audio tape. I don't know what was said. The only reason why I know about that, is because my mom was friends with the wife he left behind. The 18-year-old boy's note allegedly conveyed to his parents that he couldn't take the "pressure" anymore (and I use the word "allegedly" because I heard this through close friends of his). I know that he was a straight-A student who was a natural in the sciences, and that he was a track star. He was a good-looking guy who had no problems getting noticed by the girls. I also knew that he was trying to get into Notre Dame, because that was his dad's alma mater.

I went through periods of time (and even now, albeit sporadic) where I was pissed off at them for what they've done. Honestly, though, I knew these people before they ended their lives, and none of them were known to be "selfish" people. My belief is that once they reached that point, there was no return. They felt that they were disappointing everyone around them - so, in their irrational view, they thought they were doing everybody a favor.

These experiences change us forever - in both good and bad ways. I wish you peace.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #81
116. Thank you
Yes, I have good memories of the friends I've lost. But I'm still angry at them for the choice they made.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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sixstrings75 Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
83. Yes. here's a link.

Almost 10 months have went by and it still doesn't make any sense...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #83
117. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

In many ways it is similar to what transpired with one of my friends.
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gizmonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
84. Yes, a coworker. Someone I'd known for a long time. I never expected it.
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 11:27 AM by gizmonic
I'll keep the details brief because it still upsets me. Basically he pulled over to the side of the highway on his way to work and shot himself.

He was in his early 40's, married with one son.
:cry:

:hug: to you
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #84
118. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
85. Self-Delete
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 11:51 AM by UndertheOcean
Manic phase.
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BeachBaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. WTF????
Why are you posting in a thread where people are processing the loss of loved ones to suicide, only to trivialize it?

Obviously, you've never experienced something like this - because, if you did, you could never behave so coldly.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #86
90. I hit alert, but found that none of the catagories apply to this.
I echo your " :wtf:".
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auntAgonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #90
96. I alerted and used the "insensitive" category. I echo the WTF
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #86
95. Don't mind me , or my brain farts.
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auntAgonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. perhaps the bathroom is a place to have your brainfarts and not
sensitive threads?

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
87. Two or three depending on how deliberate it has to be...
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 12:01 PM by Deep13
...to be a suicide.

All three were men.

One was a client who shot himself after a divorce because he did not want to live with his advancing illness. He was old and just decided he had enough.

The second was someone who worked for my wife's company. Basically, he lost his job, suffered the loss of a friend and may have been going blind. Hwe also shot himself. He left a widow and a young son.

The third was my cousin who drank himself to death presumably because he was ashamed to be gay and his psychiatric treatment was inadequate. He left all of us.
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gizmonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #87
110. See my post upthread nt
:hug:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
120. my dad
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #120
124. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

:hug:
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raptor_rider Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #120
164. Oh Skittles
I am so sorry.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #164
180. it was bad
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 03:17 AM by Skittles
he was 50 - shot himself in the head, then lived for six days ......day three was my birthday
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
121. Only one
When I was in eighth grade, I got out of taking P. E. by being an "Office Aide," which basically consisted of going around taking the attendance slips off of the classroom doors around campus after the teachers had taken attendance at the beginning of class and occasionally making other deliveries to classrooms.

For the most part, though, my "job" would be done after the first fifteen minutes of the period and I would sit in the Workroom and talk to the lady who ran the place. Over the course of the year, we got to be pretty close; she was one of the first adults (other than relatives) I got to know pretty well and, essentially, became "friends" with. Eighth grade was one of the tougher years of my childhood, and it was really nice having an adult besides my parents and grandparents who I could talk to about some of the stuff I was going through.

The following December, when I was a freshman in high school, she went out into her front yard and shot herself in the head with a rifle, using her toe to pull the trigger. I never really saw that coming at all, and still don't really know why she did it.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #121
126. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
122. Yes.
A dear friend of the family, an adopted "aunt" who I enjoyed many adventures with as a child.

She was a lesbian who tried so hard to fit in; she dated men who loved her...every man loved her. She loved them back. Platonically. She denied herself.

She was beautiful, inside and out. She was terribly lonely. She was a creative, gifted artist. She was an alcoholic.

And, on New Year's eve, 1972, she jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

I grieved for her for many years, and have never stopped missing her.

This straight woman stands in full solidarity with my lgbt brothers and sisters, because it's the right thing to do.

AND...

In memory of her.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #122
127. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #127
133. Nearly 4 decades later,
condolences still mean something to me. Thanks.
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
123. Yes, three
all of them during my High School years.

The first was my best friend, who killed himself in early Oct of 91. He used a pistol.

Second was a sports friend(we got along, talked great during baseball/football) in summer of 92, he used a pistol as well.

Third was girl, an art buddy of mine, I used to also steal school lunches for her, because she couldn't afford to eat. She killed herself in spring of 94, she used a sawed off shotgun.

I had no idea that any of these people were in such spirits, that they would kill themselves. HS was a rough time, I think in all we lost damn near 12 people, due to suicide or auto/4wheeler/boating accidents.

I'm not pissed off that they choose this path, I'm utterly saddened.

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #123
128. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
125. Several.
When I was in high school, my best friend's father shot and killed his mother, then shot and killed himself.

My sister died of a deliberate OD in the early '90s, leaving her then ten year-old daughter to find the body, My sister suffered from bipolar disorder. Our brother died of an OD in the '70s. Could have been an accident, could have been suicide. Nobody's clear on the events to this day because he lived across the country and had little contact with our family. He was probably bipolar as well.

As a mental health social worker I worked for many years with people who considered and/or attempted suicide. Some completed suicide despite all treatment and many interventions. It is always tragic, and cases of terminal illness aside, those who suicide are not thinking rationally at the time of the attempt. It is common that the person believes the world would be better off without them, In that context suicide seems to them like the only option to avoid doing further damage to their family, etc.

For a number of years I facilitated a support group for Survivors of Suicide-- the family and friends left to deal with their loved one's death. Such support can be very helpful as it comes from other folks who really understand what the loss is like. For further info, please check out the American Association of Suicidology (AAS) for support group info. You could also call your nearest community mental health center for a referral. Here's a link for the AAS--
http://www.suicidology.org/web/guest/home.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. Thanks for the link
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
131. My brother-in-law hanged himself on December 1. 1999
He knew that my sister would be the one to find him.

To this day, I am still really angry with him for what he did. A few years ago I thought it might bring me peace to try to come to some sort of reconciliation. I made an effort, but realized I wasn't being honest with myself. There will always be that little compartment of hatred towards him within me. Once I made peace with that fact, it became much easier to move on with life. Not every act needs to be forgiven or understood. He was an incredibly selfish bastard to the very end.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #131
135. I'm sorry
I understand.

I'm not a surviving spouse or child or parent. I'm just collateral damage. But I am left to help the immediate family cope with profound and intense emotion and loss. The last words and texts of the impulsive drunk suicide expressed a desire to leave a lasting legacy of guilt. He knew his spouse would make the gruesome discovery and apparently he gave no thought to the harm his actions would inflict on his young children, or his aged parents, or his siblings. He had a history of violent, impulsive and reckless behavior directed at inanimate objects and animals. During the decades I knew him, he would from time to time act impulsively and do something stupid and then feel remorseful. The boy never learned how to handle frustration. He never made any effort to change that behavior pattern and resisted all suggestions that he seek help to do so even though he had the resources and personal support to do so. If he were still among the living I've no doubt he would regret taking his life and inflicting the damage he did. I am outraged that he chose to abandon his young children and that he desired to leave a legacy of guilt to his spouse.

I'm sorry for your loss.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
132. Neighbor did a Hemingway in his back yard when I was a kid
I lived in a tiny town in Massachusetts. I didn't know the neighbor that well but went to school with his kids. He went out in the back yard, climbed up in a tree, sat on a branch, and swallowed the business end of a 12 gauge.

People who romanticize life in small towns are so utterly full of shit that I don't even know where to BEGIN to describe it.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #132
136. I'm sorry
I grew up in a rural area and I understand everything you say about small towns.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #132
138. My BIL IS a Hemingway --
and this Dad, Great Uncle (Ernest) , and other men in the family have taken their own lives. My BIL had a terrible time in this 30's with depression and was suicidal -- but got help, which took some time -- and is now almost 60 and doing very well. He says fa\mily traditions have to stop w/ someone, may as well be him.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #138
143. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

And I'm delighted someone has broken the cycle of self-destruction.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
137. I've vaguely known a few
and I've known many who have contemplated it.

Suicide is generally a result of mental illness, often severe depression.

Condemning those who commit suicide for selfishness is misunderstanding the true cause.

For those who care or want to learn more about this issue:
American Society for Suicide Prevention
http://www.afsp.org /
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #137
142. The American Association of Suicidology
reports that "about 2/3 of people who complete suicide are depressed at the time of their deaths."

http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library/get_file?...

That means, of course, that one third of the people who complete suicide are NOT depressed at the time of their death.

Depression is a predisposing and modifiable risk factor for suicide. There are other permanent and non-modifiable risk factors (e.g., among others demographics, parental history of violence, substance abuse, divorce or psychiatric disorder). Suicides can be the result of impulsive reckless actions, rage, substance abuse, or revenge seeking among other things. The choice to die by one's own actions can even be heroic (falling on a grenade to save one's colleagues for example).

As a survivor who is directly impacted by a suicide I have the right to honestly experience my feelings - even if that means that I am frickin pissed off at the victim. That act has drastically impacted my life - and that of others - in many different ways. Most of them profoundly negative. Some of those effects will continue for years. I know and love the surviving parents who are elderly and in declining health. I have little trouble imagining that their remaining time will be shortened and shrouded in guilt and grief. My own experience with childhood grief due to the accidental death of a sibling tells me that the surviving children will bear the scars of their father's suicide throughout their lifetime. Those who commit suicide do not live in a vacume. They victimize their survivors. It should come as no surprise that sometimes those survivors are frickin pissed off about it.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #142
145. Suicide.org
Edited on Thu Aug-12-10 11:33 PM by LeftyFingerPop
"Over 90 percent of people who die by suicide have a mental illness at the time of their death".

Notice that in your example, psychiatric disorders, substance abuse, rage, and impulsive actions are not included in their "depression" number, but most probably are contributed to by the general category of "mental illness".

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-causes.html
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #145
151. Not all suicides
are depressed and/or have a mental illness at the time of their death. There are about 35,000 suicides in the US each year. By your own representation, 10% or about 3,500 annual suicides are not the result of mental illness and/or depression. That's about 10 suicides per day in the US that do not result from mental illness and/or depression.

If each completed suicide leaves 6 survivors (parents, siblings, spouse, children) then there are about 21,000 survivors each year who are left to make sense of an act that appears to be irrational and cannot be explained by depression and/or mental illness.

Mental illness does not explain the suicide of someone who was drunk at the time of his death - but had not used drugs or alcohol in the decades preeceding his death and had never had a substance abuse problem. The consumption of alcohol and drugs lowers inhibitions, increases impulsivity and reduces the ability to contemplate and appreciate the consequences of one's actions. Intoxication in and of itself is not an indicator of mental illness and/or depression.

Mental illness does not explain the impulsive action of someone who committed suicide while intoxicated - but otherwise did not demonstrate a marked tendency to act unexpectedly and without consideration of the consequences. Impulsivity as a pattern of conduct might be an indicator of mental illness. But not an alcohol fueled instance without a marked pattern of impulsive conduct.

Mental illness does not explain the rage of someone who used the threat of suicide to manipulate, failed in that effort, became enraged and expressed a desire to leave a legacy of guilt with the person who refused to be manipulated - and then put a gun in his mouth and left a gruesome body to be discovered by the object of his manipulative efforts.

I imagine it's a lot easier for a suicide survivor to conclude that the self-inflicted death of a loved one was the result of depression and/or mental illness. But that's not always the case. Some of us are left to conclude that the act was impulsive (and perhaps manipuative or vengeful), that intoxication was a significant contributing factor, and that the consequences of the act were not considered.

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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #151
155. This entire thread has become your attempt to justify your anger...
over something that really has nothing to do with you. You must remember, your friends who killed themselves committed the ultimate act, they killed THEMSELVES. They ended any hopes or dreams that THEY had.

You do not understand suicide, you only understand that you are pissed off.

Whether you like it or agree with it, they made a personal decision.

You can't understand how they could leave loved ones behind? Well, to be blunt, it is not up to you to understand...only they know why they committed the act.

I suggest you talk to someone who will help you get a grip on your feelings about this, rather than presenting and twisting statistics to show what you want them to say.

Good luck and best wishes.

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #155
157. Frankly
I can't believe that as a suicide survivor I've had to explain why the hell I'm pissed off.

Suicide victims don't live in a frickin vacuum. Their actions directly impact their survivors. They abandon their relationships with and commitments to those survivors. They destroy the hopes and dreams of survivors which include the victim. A daughter can no longer dream of her father walking her down the aisle at her wedding - a son can no longer look forward to learning different skills from his daddy. A surviving spouse often bears the brunt of guilt and social stigma. The surviving parents may fear that the surviving spouse will remarry and relocate and that they will be effectively excluded from the lives of their grandchildren. Surviving siblings worry that the emotional toll enacted will shorten and diminish the remaining days of the surviving parents or that they may have to assume some family obligations of the deceased. The emotional scars of survivors are just as permanent as the physical death of the victim. As a survivor, the suicide of the victim does indeed impact me - and a circle of other survivors that I know and love.

I have to accept what happened. I don't have to frickin excuse it. I can accept it and still believe that the victim made a mistake, made a bad choice, acted impulsively, selfishly, vengefully and without consideration of the consequences. As a survivor who is directly and negatively impacted by that I can be fucking angry. I don't give a shit whether or not you approve or accept my feelings. I don't require your validation.

You didn't know the victim. You haven't seen the results of the police and coroner's investigations. You don't know what transpired in the victims life or in the days and hours preceding his suicide. Given that you know nothing of this particular victim and this particular set of circumstances it is presumptuous of you to suggest what are and are not appropriate emotions for a survivor who has that knowledge and that relationship to feel.

You can pity and defend a victim you never knew. I am left to mourn someone I loved - and to help care for his survivors. I expect I will live the rest of my life doing so.



BTW, if you're going to post a statistic that says that 90% of suicides are the result of mental illness and/or depression then you should realize that 90% doesn't account for all suicides. It falls about 10% short. That's simple math. No twisting or distortion involved or required. Not all suicidal tragedies fit neatly in your little box. And, unfortunately, the ones that don't still represent a significant number.
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #157
159. Like I said...
You need to speak to someone about your anger over this. When you post on a message board, expect to get opinions you do not agree with.

From a fellow suicide survivor to another.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. I have
and they don't seem to have a problem with the fact that I'm pissed off. They've treated it as an entirely normal reaction - and one they recognize extends beyond the victim and his actions. There was after all (1) a spouse who planned to approach a highly emotional subject at a time when she knew the victim would be isolated from his children, his family and his friends, (2) someone who could have served as an intermediary who gave the victim no hope of resolving the matter and (3) a first responder who knew of the suicide threat and the domestic turmoil and observed that the victim was both alone and intoxicated and still failed to take him into protective custody very shortly before he swallowed that gun.

FWIW, the "they" I reference include (1) a clinical pyschologist I've known and maintained a friendship with for about 30 years, (2) a master's level registered nurse who has worked in the mental health field for over 30 years and whom I've known and maintained a friendship with for over a decade, and (3) an independent professional I've recently consulted.
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #151
171. My fathers attempt was indeed manipulative and vengeful.
Yeah, he was sick. But this was not a cry for help. It was an abusive episode by a mean drunk.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #171
172. .
:hug:
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Mr. Ected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
140. Yes, my favorite uncle
Hung himself in a tree on the grounds of his newly-constructed mansion in Germany. No forewarning, no note, no later-discovered revelations regarding health, finances or failed love. Inexplicable. He was 55.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. .
I'm sorry for your loss.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-10 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
141. Yes...
I'll leave it at that.
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Bombero1956 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
146. 2 people, my cousin and a fellow firefighter
My cousin hung himself from a backyard tree 3 years ago. He had a lifelong problem with drugs and alcohol and apparently couldn't deal with life anymore. The other was a fellow firefighter. He went out one night and came home three sheets to the wind. His wife gave him hell about it and his response was to go down cellar and hang himself. He was a really nice guy and a great firefighter but I don't think Dennis thought things out that night.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #146
148. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

Of the 3 suicides I know 2 were well thought out and planned. THe third was stupid drunk and impulsive with no thought for the consequences.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
147. the father of a young girl i went to school with
--i've thought of her and her dad and mom through the years with a lot of sympathy--especially for the girl and how difficult it must have been for her, maybe still is.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #147
149. .
I too worry about child survivors of a father's suicide. I hope they are all doing well. Hope we all are.

Take care.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
150. A couple. One very close to home.
:cry:

Shock. Dismay. Empathy. Lingering sadness.

Never anger.

None.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #150
152. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

I know I am not alone in my anger at the drunk and impulsive father suicide. His surviving spouse, children, parents and siblings have all expressed anger at him for his actions.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #152
153. No two are alike.
None I have seen involve anger.

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auntAgonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #150
167. ...
:hug:
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nutsnberries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
154. Two friends, and in a way, a third too.
Edited on Fri Aug-13-10 12:08 PM by nutsnberries
The first was a best friend of my boyfriend when we were all about 20 years old. It was a shock to us when he hung himself in a tree in his familys backyard. He had gone around to visit most of his good friends earlier in the day. We didnt realize until we compared our stories after his death, that these visits were to say goodbye. Hi suicide seemed to be about sort of ordinary stuff and none in our group of friends knew any one of these things (probably all) had him despondent. His parents told us afterwards that they had brought him to see a counselor to talk things over, because they were aware, although they did not believe he was suicidal. There was trouble with the town police (who had broken off his front teeth on the hood of his car for being a drunken punk to them again, but he had recently had new caps put on those teeth), loss of a girlfriend, problems at work, possibly witnessing something that he felt badly about not doing something about, the loss of an eye as a child, and budding alcoholism.
Months after his suicide I spoke to an old boyfriend about it, trying to make some sense of it. This old boyfriend struggled with mental illness and had attempted suicide a couple of times when he was younger and received much psychiatric care. He did not know this other friend of mine, but after hearing me tell about him, he felt that other friends suicide was a case of suicide being a permanent solution to temporary problems. Its still so sad when I think of that 20-year-old friends suicide which happened 28 years ago tomorrow (also a Saturday the 14th that year). Aside from the problems he had at the time, he was smart, funny, charming, good-looking, and has a big family and lots of friends that still miss him dearly. It seems to make less sense to us all, the more time goes by. But really, what did he choose not to share with us about what was going on in his head?

The other friend that committed suicide is the old boyfriend (that Ive just mentioned) that I went to for help in trying to understand. In the next few years, his mental illness got much worse. At the time of his death, he had recently moved out of a half-way house and into the home of a minister that he trusted. He was a couple thousand miles from our hometown area where I was still living and where most of his family was still living. I spoke with him often over the phone and knew daily life was a huge struggle when psychoses would flare up. He overdosed one night on one of his anti-psychotic medications. I still ache over his illness and the loss, but unlike the death of the first friend, this suicide makes some sense to me. If he had lived, I dont know how long he would have had to suffer and IF a new medication/treatment would have ever helped him. He lived with prolonged periods of auditory/visual/mental delusions-hallucinations and had times of clarity and peace. I suspect his overdose was not really an attempt to die, but a desperate attempt to make voices stop.
The tag-line I use, give a damn is a nod to him.

The third friend, was the brother of the first friend. He drank himself to death, dying a few years ago. I didnt see him or his family very often in recent years, only occasionally. The loss of his brother and the tragic death of his wife from an aneurism (about 10 years after his brother), worsened his already bad drinking problem. To me, it was suicide. He knew what he was doing. He had a young daughter that he made sure would be well taken care of after his death.

Instances of suicide, the events and feelings leading up to them, are all as unique as the people that commit them. Im truly sorry for your losses.

(edited out a couple extra words)
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #154
156. Thank you
I'm sorry for your losses.



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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
158. Yes.
I've known two. Coincidentally (or not) they were both PKs (preacher's kids). One was in high school and shot himself in the head with a shotgun. The other was in college and hung himself in a tree outside the fraternity house with a simple note pinned to him saying, "I'm sorry."

They both were very good guys.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

Everyone I've lost to suicide were fundamentally good decent people who I loved.
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raptor_rider Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
162. Yes here
My grandmother. She thought she had cancer and did not want to put her husband through that again since he lost his first wife to cancer. Put a gun to her head. I was five.

When I was 20, my boyfriend at the time was crazy. Always accusing me of cheating on him and such. An physical and emotional abuser. Cut his wrist right in front of me while I was on the phone with his friend trying to get him over to the house to get him in control. It was a crazy time. However he knew what he was doing and did not cut deep enough.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #162
165. .
I'm sorry for your loss.

I was young when my younger sister was killed in an auto accident. I would imagine that losing a grandparent to suicide at a young age might be terribly difficult. Take care.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
163. I saw a dead person on the ground who jumped (or fell) out window.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. I used to work
in a downtown highrise in one of our nations largest cities. One day someone made it to the roof of our building and jumped. I didn't see the fall or the aftermath but some of my co-workers did.

I'm sorry you had to see that.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
170. I used to know them but they are gone now.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #170
173. Yes Indeed

By choice.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. true...
the ultimate choice.
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Terra Alta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-14-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
175. No, but I came very close to doing so in 2007.
Was just going through a really bad time then and had no hope.
I'm much better now, thanks to therapy and medication. I do have my rough days(today was one!) but nothing like back then.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #175
182. .
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 11:14 AM by Coyote_Bandit
I'm glad you are still here among the living.

:hug:
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
176. Yes.
It was a long time ago. She was 19.


You know what? Mental illnesses are really fucking serious. You compare the 10-year survival rates of, say, schizophrenia, versus, say, cancer, and it's very illuminating.

Our healthcare system is fucked up beyond believe. Even if you're in the lucky upper-class who actually have health insurance, you'll probably still have to fight for mental health care. You'll have to fill out endless reams of paperwork. You might have to go to court. You'll have to be alert and articulate and fierce in your own defense, and even so, you might still lose. And this is exactly what people with many common brain diseases CANNOT and WILL NOT do, because of their disease.

People with, say, bipolar disorder or chronic depression aren't stupid. They read the newspapers. They know how bad it is right now. They're probably uninsured or unemployed already because asking people with those problems to buy into the positive-thinking job-hunting cult is like asking a quadriplegic to try out for Olympic gymnastics. It's just not within their capabilities and they KNOW it. It's right at the point where there particular disabilities lie.

A quadriplegic, with support, can be a great scientist (e.g. Stephen Hawking, though he's lucky he was British; he'd have probably been dead long ago if he were American)--but not a great marathon runner. A depressive, with support, can be a great novelist (e.g. Virginia Woolf, although her success wasn't enough to stop her disease in the end) but not a great salesperson or motivational speaker.

If the whole culture is geared towards blaming the "victim" who just couldn't manage to "cheer him/herself up enough" and "see how much you have to live for"--not realizing how inadequate those platitudes are to someone in the grips of a disease that has a fatality rate well on par with cancer...well, yes. Suicide will be a common consequence.

And anger on the part of loved ones left behind is a part of the process. One of the stages, you know. People feel angry at loved ones who died in accidents and hospitals too. It's irrational, it's emotional, it's real.

It's not OK to make this a stigma on suicide victims, though.
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #176
177. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your compassionate AND educated reply.
I wish every person on here who used the terms 'selfish and coward' had to live with a worst case scenario of bipolar disorder for one month.
And they would have to take mind altering medications that not only don't work, they make the condition worse.
Add to that NO support from family or friends because they are too busy calling the sick person names.
Yeah, a month of bipolar disorder. That would shut them up in heartbeat.
People who commit suicide are in horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE pain that they cannot take for one moment longer.
Why is it OK for someone with terminal, PAINFUL cancer to opt out? But those who have a mental illness and are in the same pain,
they are mocked, scorned, called names, and made to feel guilty for being sick.
There is no cure for mental illness. Just as there is no cure for cancer. Only treatments that sometimes work, and many times do not work.

Mental illness is just that, an ILLNESS. WHY are people on this board blaming people for being sick and for no longer being able to stand the pain?
*waving my magic wand over them and giving them a month in the black hole of bipolar disorder* Enjoy. :mad:

And for anyone who wants to argue with me on this point - don't even try. I come armed with 54 years of first hand experience.
Anyone shooting off their mouths with the words 'selfish and coward' - you are shooting with blanks.

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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #177
178. Thank you.
I have so many friends grappling with issues like these that I feel fortunate that I have a realatively mild form of depression that so far is manageable with medication. Which I pay for out-of-pocket because I'm uninsured and only feel grateful I know a shrink who's willing to bend the rules for me. There but for the grace, yanno?

But I know. One of my best friends is bipolar, and she's a talented enough writer to be very eloquent on her blog about just how bad it is when it's bad. (Days after the fact of course--when one is actually down in the pit, there ain't no talking about it in words.)

I would never blame anyone for committing suicide. People at that point are in the last stages of a terminal illness. I blame the system that makes it so fucking hard to get help and treats you like a scammer if you try.
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #178
179. Only one way to reply to that....
:hug:
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #179
181. Agreed. and it goes a long way.
:hug:

Back at you. The issues involved are so complex and painful, as we both know.
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #177
183. I agree with both of you.
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 11:37 AM by hippywife
Very educated and illuminating posts. However, it is also NORMAL for those left behind to feel and express anger. It is only one of the stages of the grieving process, especially when in the throws of something so unexpected. I think a little understanding on both sides of the issue is definitely in order.

:hug:
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
184. Three, all in their early 20's
This was three decades ago.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
185. Yes
Edited on Sun Aug-15-10 12:01 PM by Bluzmann57
an aunt, a second cousin and his wife that were suffering from cancer, made a suicide pact, and followed through on it and a dear friend who lost her boyfriend to a motorcycle accident. The friend's death really shook me up since she had just bought a house about a block away from me and I told her that if she wanted to simply talk, feel free to come over and talk. This was about ten years ago and I still think about her and her boyfiend a lot. RIP Lynette.
Strange thing about the aunt's suicide. She was a widow and when the police pulled into my parents driveway, my dad knew immediately what they were there for. As soon as the officer knocked on the door, my dad answered it and said, "My sister commited suicide didn't she?" I imagine out of all the things a police officer has to do, that has to be the hardest.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
186. Yes, my brother
I can't bear to relate the details.

I'm sorry for your loss...
There are many tragic stories in this thread...as we all carry on.
May you find inner peace~



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