So, is internet online sex cheating?

[faceit]

Hot topic of debate here at the office as co-worker finds out hubby has been using internet webcam for online sex for the past year.

No, she did not know. Husband says since it was all sexual and he didn't maintain any consistent contact with any of the women, it was just a release and compared it to porn. He also lied to her about what he was doing in chats when she found the computer opened to a web chat site, and she asked what he was doing in there, and stated since it made her feel uncomfortable he would stop.

[seabeyond]

1. i wouldnt do it to hubby. he wouldnt do it to me. neither of us would

want it done to us....

that says something.

[Lil Missy]

2. If it is something you have to keep a secret from SO, then yes it's cheating.

[faceit]

8. That's what I thought -

Apparently, this guy thinks because it isn't in person and there is no emotional connection, it doesn't count as cheating. He thought of it along the lines of online porn. I guess that's better then having developed an emotional affair with some other women, but still.

She certainly feels cheated on, so I guess that's all that counts.

As bad as a physical affair, probably not. But, not good.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. Please don't make me choose between the BF and...

...Russell Stover.

Russell is the only man who truly understands me.

[OmahaBlueDog]

38. By that definition...

...stopping at Harrahs for a beer and an hour of blackjack when you were supposed to be at work would be cheating on your SO.....not that I'd know anything about that..the example is purely hypothetical.

[cwydro]

3. HELL to the yes!

Totally.

[Iggo]

4. Sure.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. yes.

cut and dried, the end.

[dawg]

6. Ultimately, your friend will have to decide for herself.

Whatever it is, it sure ain't good! It's a sign that your friend's husband has a very serious problem. He won't just stop. He needs help.

[Deep13]

7. So, there's an iFuck computer peripheral device?

I guess I'm just wondering about the mechanics of internet "sex."

[faceit]

9. Web cams & mutual masturbation.

Apparently.

[ismnotwasm]

10. Well even if it isn't

I'd shitcan his ass for first for lying, and secondly for being creepy. (I think it's creepy to compare it to porn. This involved real live human beings he was having interaction with, people with their own lives and emotions. Porn is pictures and movies)

Plus it's plain shitty mean behavior to hang out on-line for sexual purposes when your spouse is unaware. He could have asked, if he thought it was 'just like porn'. I'm sure he knows he is an asshole. And that "I won't do it again since you're uncomfortable with it" line? Classic bait and switch. Attempts to place the burden of guilt on the wife. Fuck that.

I don't see a good ending here.

[PassingFair]

11. Did he pay for it?

If my husband paid money for sex,
phone sex, internet sex or sex sex....

D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

[dawg]

14. I'm curious.

Would it make any difference if he got it for free? And if so, why?

[PassingFair]

16. We have two children to support.

Nearing college age.

If he is spending money for sex
it would be a deal-breaker for me.

PLUS, he hasn't worked full-time
for over 7 years and I pay ALL the
bills.

Yes, I'd divorce him, no discussion.

[Orsino]

12. If a member of a committed relationship thinks it is, yes. n/t

[Tailormyst]

13. Yes it is

If it wasn't cheating and he believed it wasn't cheating then he would not have hid it from her and he would not have lied to her.

[faceit]

22. Well, it seems unanimous. Cheating it is...

Most everyone here agrees it is cheating as well...the only difference of opinion was the level of it. Looking at Playboy as a 1 to in person sex as a 10.

Everyone agreed that the lying was the biggest problem.

Most people put it just one level below the real thing.

[nickinSTL]

72. looking at Playboy is cheating?

wow. that's a bit harsh.

[Orrex]

74. Actually, even *typing* Playboy is cheating.

Way to go, cheater.

[nickinSTL]

75. and if my wife is ok with me looking at porn?

is it still cheating?

[Orrex]

80. Especially then.

And that makes her an enabler.

[seabeyond]

81. or

simply not having to be a participant????

[nickinSTL]

82. lol. Have you met my wife?

Because it sounds like you have.

[seabeyond]

83. oh lordy..... this was funny.

cause reading your title i was gonna say... no i havent. but then to read your comment, it had me laughing my ass off.

sigh

i love to giggle with you guys.

[MissMillie]

15. If you think it would bother the other person in your relationship, then yes, it is cheating

Doing anything that you know your partner will not like and doing it despite knowing that they will not like it is a form of infidelity (even non-sexual activity counts, though it doesn't count as sexual infidelity).


If you care about someone, you avoid behavior that would make them unhappy.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. i can see both sides of this argument.

[jobycom]

19. It might be cheating, but I still don't consider it sex.

The real issue is that he said he would stop and he didn't, and that he lied about it in the first place. If he knew he had to lie about it, he knew it was something she wouldn't want him to do. I can understand lying to hide something he might be embarrassed about, but to keep doing it after he promised not to elevates the seriousness of the crime.

I still wouldn't put it on the same par as actually meeting someone in person for sex. That's a whole nuther level of betrayal.

[LanternWaste]

20. It involved a lie, and another person-- it's cheating.

It involved a lie, and another person-- it's cheating.

[Orrex]

21. Not if he keeps his receipts and can itemize it as a deduction

Wait a minute--of course it's cheating, so much so that the question borders on silliness!

In real-world conversations on this subject, I've always had the sense that the only people who argue that it isn't cheating are the people who want to try it but don't want to admit to themselves that it's cheating.

[seabeyond]

23. like a bj isnt really cheating, it isnt intercourse you know, lol. nt

[hippywife]

24. Fuck yes! n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

25. He seems to have thought it wouldn't bother her, so...

if this relationship is otherwise solid and he now knows it does bother her, seems like they could, and should, work it out.

"Cheating"? Maybe, maybe not but doesn't make any difference if they work it out.

[faceit]

51. He hid it from her and lied when confronted going on chats

So, he knew that it would bother her.

He wants to work it out. She doesn't trust him anymore, and who could blame her? Lied to and had her man seeking out other woman to watch naked. He also was on display.

[WinkyDink]

26. Here's how to determine it: If he doesn't mind his wife doing likewise.

[Lucian]

27. I'm going to go against the consensus and say no, it isn't.

He didn't physically cheat on her. He just jerked it on cam. I don't think it's cheating.

[NNadir]

28. I may be revealing some geometric ignorance here, but how does one have online sex?

Does one stick wires to one's body parts?

[Pryderi]

29. Yes, it is.

[Pryderi]

30. How about lap dances at strip clubs?

[Iggo]

35. Yup.

[MrSlayer]

31. No penetration? Not cheating.

Unless you actually insert your penis/tongue/body part of choice into someone other than your significant other or have one of the aforementioned inserted into you, you are not cheating. Hand jobs count as cheating. What this guy was doing is called masturbating.

[cwydro]

43. Is that you Bill?

I mean Mr. President?

[faceit]

52. Funny...

[MrSlayer]

63. LOL!

Bill was cheating by my definition.

[Blue-Jay]

73. Nope.

Also, stop beating off.

[Wapsie B]

32. How about fantasizing about someone else while you're having sex with your s.o.?

[LeftyMom]

33. I'm not into setting rules for other people's relationships.

[Pryderi]

34. Whatever is comfortable for both parties. If one spouse feels uncomfortable about an activity, then

the other should stop doing whatever it is that is causing the discomfort.

[Dr Morbius]

36. If I did it, my wife would kick my ass. That makes it cheating. (nt)

[OmahaBlueDog]

37. Cheating = 2 or more people + physical contact + .....

...a Reasonable Chance one or both will reach orgasm during the physical contact.

To me, online sex is more on par with porn. Not cheating.

..but it is a very slippery slope on the way to cheating.

[faceit]

53. It is a slippery slope.

He was seeking out other women to interact with and fulfill his sexual needs.

Why not just look at porn then choose a real life human being who specifically interacts with you?

It is obviously different, as he would have just looked at porn if it were not.

I don't think it is the same as a physical affair, but certainly just one level below.

[Lilith Velkor]

39. No.

[proteus_lives]

40. Yep, cheating.

[Pushed To The Left]

41. If another person was involved, I would put it in the cheating category, sort of like phone sex

If he was just looking at pictures or movies, that would be one thing. But having virtual sex with a real person seems like it would fall into the cheating category. I suppose it depends on the couple and what definitions of cheating they agree on.

[Common Sense Party]

42. Yes. Duh.

[Blasphemer]

44. It depends... in this case, I would say no

I think the comparison to porn is appropriate when it comes to webcamming "sex" on one of those sites. Now, if it was a relationship that developed online and he was having webcam "sex" in the context of a relationship, that would be different. As it is, it's just interactive porn.

[Chan790]

45. Not even remotely...

it's lame, but it's not even remotely cheating. Sad, pathetic and somewhat perverse however...I am of course speaking about the wife. She does not own his sexuality any more than he owns hers...this is as creepy as someone I used to know whose wife forbid him to masturbate because she was convinced he was fantasizing about other women.

Cheating requires an emotional connection, if not a physical one. Was there an emotional connection with these women? Otherwise, it's seemingly just a more visually-interactive form of masturbation.

[Macoy]

46. YES it is cheating!

YES it is cheating. My wife left me and our three kids after I found out about her on-line “friend”, a friend she went to great lengths to conceal from me.

Just like flirting in real life, on-line relationships, “just for fun”, can grow in to some thing that tears families apart.

As said earlier, if you are concealing a relationship/activity from your spouse, it is wrong and you know it is wrong….other wise, why conceal it.



Macoy

[seabeyond]

47. .

i am sorry you are going thru what you are. this is happening more and more. i have empathy.

to suggest it must be physical contact doesnt work for me. emotional committment to some other than a mate is just as damaging we are seeing. more so in some cases.

[dawg]

48. So sorry.

I hope you've been able to put your life back together. PM me if you need another guy to talk to who will understand.

[Chan790]

69. I'm sorry for your suffering...

but here we're going to have to agree to disagree...there are parts of my sexuality that are not my SO's business and things about hers that are private from me too. If you've got nothing to conceal even from your spouse/gf/bf/partner/SO/other, you've got a boring sexual life IMO.

Even I have clandestine sexuality and I'm in an open long-term thing (we've decided we're too casual and impermanent-in-outlook to call it a relationship) with a woman who is game for anything.

[ismnotwasm]

54. Any situation

Where you set up a cause for great hurt to any other human being like this may not be 'cheating' but it's bullshit behavior. He could have discussed this with his wife, they could have had agreed mutual experiences. That's not what he did. He lied. He didn't give her a choice in the matter either. In my book that makes him the perverse one. In fact, I suspect he needs a bit of perversity and has a need for shame based sex, or "the forbidden" as they say. He quite possibly wouldn't enjoy it as much with a liberal go-ahead from his wife. This situation also involves other human beings, not 'virtual' ones. Sex is powerful and a lot of folk use it for power that causes harm as well as good.

The potential for harm and hurt is great here, because of the lack of sexual honesty.

He's an asshole

[faceit]

55. The wife is creepy? That is way off base.

How is she trying to 'own' his sexuality?

She doesn't want to be lied to and she doesn't want her man actively seeking out other women to find sexual satisfaction with...

If that is what he needs, he should at least be honest about it and then let her decide if that is the type of relationship she wants to be in.

He went behind her back, lied to her, and now she is a creep for having human feelings.

Wow. That's cold.

[LanternWaste]

58. A husband hiring a prostitute without the knowledge of his wife is therefore not cheating?

"Cheating requires an emotional connection"

A husband hiring a prostitute without the knowledge of his wife is therefore not cheating?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. it says, requires an emotional context if not a physical one

one assumes there is physical contact if prostitute was hired

[LanternWaste]

79. Seems to me that the statement implies either/or...

"Cheating requires an emotional connection, if not a physical one"

Seems to me that the statement implies either/or.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. it says, requires an emotional context if not a physical one

one assumes there is physical contact if prostitute was hired

[dawg]

49. This thread misses the damn point by a mile ...

Whether you call it "cheating" is meaningless. Unless both partners have discussed this in advance and both are ok with it - it's a pretty damn bad thing.

Is is a divorce-level offense? That's for the offended party to decide. For that matter, no one really knows how they would react to something like this until it actually happens to them.

For a lot of people, this is a sickness, and will not go away with out serious therapy and a major change in attitude. The internet is a portal, for both good and evil. People can use it to enrich their lives, but it can also be a means through which they can destroy their lives and their families.

Doesn't matter whether you call it cheating or not. It's a very bad thing.

[seabeyond]

50. you are right. i couldnt call it cheating. i could say neither of us would do it, or want it done

to us.

that is the bottom line for us. asked hubby the same last night and he was about par with what i was saying.

but you are right on with your post.

[AngryAmish]

56. Why in the world would someone tell their co-workers about this?

Does she have any shame? Dignity? A sense of personal space?

This is between her and her husband. If she kicks him out, fine. If she keeps him, fine. But letting the world know is beyond the pale.

[seabeyond]

57. clearing throat. an exact example of difference between male and female

male... hold it tight to the vest

female.... explore, discuss, evalutate, discuss, express, discuss

which is more healthy? well some say... lol

actually, i hear what you are saying.

[dawg]

59. Not necessarily a male / female thing ...

When a similar situation overwhelmed me, I confided in a trusted "co-worker" of sorts. Now, I wouldn't stand around the water cooler and air my family's dirty laundry for all the world, but I am a guy who needs to discuss and evaluate things.

And I'm definitely male.

[seabeyond]

61. lol. it is said often. but again

i will agree with you.

hubby and i had a funny this afternoon when he came home for lunch. last night we talked about one of the threads..... ah, this one, lol. asking if it was cheating. he hemmed and hawed a bet and said sure. then a comment that this stuff doesnt interest him and not relevant to his life.

i thought about it today, and when he came home i told him, you didnt ask what my answer was. he said he knew. i said, maybe not. and told him what i posted. that i really couldnt say it was cheating but we wouldnt do it to each other. he was surprised.

then we went into the giggle as to him not needing the "why's" of things and i gotta have the why's.

i have two brothers, though, that will talk for hours and days on in about their stuff. and they do often, using me.

i also know a handful of females, a good friend, niece and sister in law and none of them are good at expressing.

in our house we learned to talk, a lot, about all things.

in hubby's house it was do what mom says, dont question or express.

it is very hard for me to be around his mom, lol lol.

this is why i have so many problems with assigned gender roles. people say biological, but the older i get, the more i see it as conditioning and environmental. males really are conditioned to not express around puberty at 12ish. have seen the same with my boys.

both my sons kick ass in expressing, discussing, evalutating. they arent allowed to do anything less.

[AngryAmish]

60. I think it is a cultural more than a male/female thing

Excuse me while I haul out my broad brush here, but I think American culture supports this sort of openness. Oprah has made billions from letting people air their dirty laundry on TV. Reality tv, tell-all autobiographies, et al.

Culturally, I was born here but I have a lot of the old country in me from my folks. If I had a problem with my wife she would hear about it but I would never tell a neighbor or co-worker. It would be dragging her name through the mud. She does not deserve that.

[seabeyond]

62. broad brush or generalization works as long as we realize we are talk tend to, not all people

and that is how i look at it. so no need to excuse you. one of my pet peeves on this board. lol. it just gives a general idea.

and i agree with your accessment too. i have heard this is something in many countries that amaze them about americans. how much we talk about the personal.

i see it your way too. i wouldnt do to my husband. but then i know for a fact, he wouldnt do with me either. both of us were raised that way. respect. this woman obviously has little respect for her husband.

[faceit]

77. Little respect for her husband?

That's rich.

He spends over a year deceiving her, lying to her and going behind her back, and she comes to the two people she works with every day for years, and she has no respect for her husband.

The woman is heartbroken and she couldn't hold it in.

Wow. We now have the wife is creepy for doing this and she is disrespectful to her husband.

Surreal.

[seabeyond]

78. you said it was a hot office topic. that implied everyone was talking about it

discussing and disecting, chosing sides.

two friends are different. but i do know, that though i may be mad today, tomorrow i may forgive and i can never wipe that out of a friends mind. i also know that when a friend shares, tomorrow may be different so i am careful how i express and empathize with friend.

[Silent3]

64. If a person wants to throw away his or her own privacy...

...so be it. I don't think anyone, without very good cause at least, or under very special circumstances, has the right to violate anybody else's privacy in the process of discussing his or her own life. If that means you can't talk about something that's going on in your life without revealing details that another person would want to keep private, especially a person who has entrusted you and who expects confidentiality, then tough.

The details of your own life often don't belong exclusively to you. Your "right" to chat it up with your buddies and get their opinions and reactions doesn't supersede your obligations to another person's privacy.

I can see how, when what's being talked about is itself a violation of trust, that might create a "Well, it's only fair! He/she violated my trust, and I'm doing no worse!" reaction, but you should be awfully careful unless you're pretty damned sure you're judging the situation correctly, and that you're not producing irreparable damage in a situation that might otherwise have been worked out and patched up.

[seabeyond]

65. ya. and what is going to happen when he is forced going to her christmas party.... knowing no one

and everyone knowing.....

hadnt thought about that, lol.

sigh

[faceit]

76. There are only two people here beside her and we are long time friends

So it isn't like she is blabbering this to a bunch of strangers.

We have worked together five plus years. I think she just couldn't hold it in anymore.

And, really. Why the hell should she have to?

No one here has told her what to do or even chastised her husband. We just feel awful that she is so broken up.

[Taverner]

66. depends on your marital contract

Yeah, its unwritten, but you know if what you are doing is right or wrong

And if you ask, in the most respectful of ways, your partner will tell you

[alphafemale]

70. If someone hides it and it upsets the spouse...YES

But if it is in the open and the spouse thinks it's not a big deal then...NO.

[Blue-Jay]

71. If you're hiding it/lying then you're cheating.

End Of Conversation.

[mitchum]

84. Yes it is, but of the unsatisfying type