I'm tired of people who call suicidal people "weak" and say "it's the easy way out"

[Ardent15]

There are people who are really are mentally ill, and who don't get much help because there's still a stigma against mental illness in this country.

How many people here have known someone who committed suicide, or attempted and failed, or have contemplated or even attempted suicide themselves? Because I certainly have contemplated it, and I've known someone who has actually committed suicide.

And it certainly is not a decision that's made because "it's the easy way out." There's nothing "easy" about the action. It's a horrible thing, but it's not a decision made lightly, ever.

[Love Bug]

1. People who commit suicide are in such despair they are convinced

that killing themselves is the best solution for everyone, including their families.

[nickinSTL]

2. I don't claim to understand

the mental process that leads to thoughts of suicide - I've never experienced it.

However, I've known many people who have, and a few who've gone all the way and committed suicide (though I didn't know any of them well, but I have friends who were close to them), and I know enough to understand that suicide isn't about being weak.

My wife and someone I care deeply about have contemplated suicide in the past. My wife very seriously in a dark part of her life.

My other friend, I think, was saved from seriously contemplating it because an ex of hers did - so she knew the pain it causes for those left behind.

It pains me deeply to know they've had these thoughts. Both of them suffer from depression, and both have undergone treatment - therapy and medication - to deal with the depression.

For anyone who's interested:

American Foundation for Suicide Prevention

[skygazer]

3. I'm sorry to hear you've contemplated suicide

It's a terrible, dark place to go - I've been there too but that was long ago thankfully.

I agree that those who call it weak or easy know nothing of what they say. People who drop into that level of despair are convinced that their family would be so much better without them. I have lost too many friends to suicide, literally more than I can count right now because to do so would be far too depressing.

I also get very angry with those who will tell a depressed person who threatens suicide to "just do it" on the theory that they won't do it if they are talking about it. If they are talking about it, they are asking for help, not a push to act. That one really frosts me. :grr:

[Taverner]

4. Yes. It's not always weak.

Some folks just can't live any more.

I think Death is the enemy, but I realize not all folks feel this way. Especially folks with such torment that they can't live another day.

[Roon]

5. I was an overweight, hearing impaired, learning disabled, gay teen

in high school. I tried suicide twice and ended up in the hospital both times.

As an adult I am on meds,I wish they had meds when I was a kid. My life would have probably turned out a lot different....for the better.

But I am much happier now as an adult. :hi:

[tblue]

16. Glad to hear it, sweetie. I've had bad episodes, too.

Very dark and scary. I would not wish that on George Bush!

Never been hospitalized for it, but that wasn't out of the realm of possibilities. Glad you made it!

[Roon]

17. Thanks Tblue

You too! :hug:

[Skittles]

28. glad you made it, Roon

you're a lovely person :hi:

[Roon]

39. Thanks Skittle, you're wonderful too!!

Did you hear my Gentleman friend is getting a kitten and he is naming it Skittles? He is never on DU so I have no idea where he got the name from! :hug:

[Skittles]

42. WOOO!!!

my DU name is an homage to my cat Skittles, who passed away in 2006. Yup, I did name him after the candy. :D

[Odin2005]

44. The suicide rate for autistic young adults like myself is through the roof.

[conscious evolution]

6. 'Can't y'all see I'm turning into a butterfly?' Then he jumped

One of the kids in the commune I live in killed himself sunday night.
No one had a clue he was in such a state.If we had we would have done whatever it took to help him.Now everyone is in freakout mode over it.

If you are having suicidal ideations please tell someone.

[seabeyond]

8. i see suicide a bet different. my mom committed suicide. we were aware she thought about it

she was on drugs, seeing therapists... and still she did it. what ifs.... dont work. we just do not have control over all things all the time. and the person contemplating suicide certainly does not have control over mind and why it is happening. they do have the control in the action.

i had people talk about hell, family denying it happened, and the what ifs

it is what it is. 57 yrs she lived a good, healthy, balanced, productive life. last two years was her hell. 57 yrs arent wiped out by one action

[Sanity Claws]

7. I agree

I've never understood the condemnation.

[LibDemAlways]

9. Such talk is cheap. I've known several young adults who

committed suicide and I can understand to some extent the thought process that drove them. To choose death means a person has reached the limits of despair and sees no other way out. It is not a sign of weakness but of desperation and resignation.

[ismnotwasm]

10. My step-daughter's mother did commit suicide

She had made a serious attempt just three months before. She had no follow up and no back up. The help was minimal when it was there at all. It took me several years to even get close to understanding her pain. She was mentally ill with a stigmatized personality disorder. It's been ten years now. What she did wasn't easy and she certainly wasn't weak. She was in agony.

I would hate to hear anyone trivializing suicide.

[meow2u3]

11. There are real mental illnesses that can be classified as killer diseases

One being severe major depression. Another is "borderline personality disorder", characterized by an ingrained sense of impulsivity, emotional instablity, and a sense of not knowing who the hell you really are, not to mention self-destruction.

http://helpguide.org/mental/depression_signs_types_diagnosis_treatment.htm
Depression and suicide
Depression is a major risk factor for suicide. The deep despair and hopelessness that goes along with depression can make suicide feel like the only way to escape the pain. Thoughts of death or suicide are a serious symptom of depression, so take any suicidal talk or behavior seriously. It's not just a warning sign that the person is thinking about suicide: it's a cry for help.

Warning signs of suicide include:
Talking about killing or harming one’s self
Expressing strong feelings of hopelessness or being trapped
An unusual preoccupation with death or dying
Acting recklessly, as if they have a death wish (e.g. speeding through red lights)
Calling or visiting people to say goodbye
Getting affairs in order (giving away prized possessions, tying up loose ends)
Saying things like “Everyone would be better off without me” or “I want out.”
A sudden switch from being extremely depressed to acting calm and happy.


If you think a friend or family member is considering suicide, express your concern and seek professional help immediately. Talking openly about suicidal thoughts and feelings can save a life.

Depression can be a killer disease.

http://www.bpddemystified.com/index.asp?id=15

[Unfortunately]

12. Amen.

Well put, Ardent! I have actually dated several girls that have considered suicide in their past lives; there's nothing wrong with it. Most of them just need love and have grown up in abusive households where victimizing themselves is the only way they know how to draw attention and make the malice stop. Show me one person that's actually been there, done that (attempted suicide) and have THEM tell me it's the easy way out. Just like with so many other debates in this country, if you don't know what you're talking about, shut the hell up!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. Welcome to DU!

I hope you will enjoy being here...

:hi:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueIris]

14. People who blame the victim like that creep me the hell out.

Especially when the victim is, you know, dead by her own hand. Comments like "it's the coward's way out," tell us a lot about the level of compassion these people have for others, which is to say, none. Lack of compassion is sometimes evidence of lack of empathy, a trait common to sociopaths. I avoid sociopaths at all costs.

[Forkboy]

15. Don't forget it's also "selfish".

Good post.

[sohndrsmith]

29. not necessarily. It can be unbelievably selfless (in my experience, anyway).

Doesn't mean it hurts any less...

[Forkboy]

30. I don't think it's selfish.

But I've heard it a lot from people who do think so, including my own father, who said it to me years ago.

I told him it was no more selfish than expecting someone to remain miserable so his feelings didn't get hurt. He surprisingly agreed, and has never said it again. He knows how I feel about suicide, and how often I think about it, so it's nice that we got that tired old chestnut out of the way early on. :)

[MajorChode]

18. If you sit through half a movie and it sucks, do you have to sit through the other half?

I'm not convinced it's always a mental illness issue. I don't understand anyone blaming anyone else for suicide. Certainly it's worth helping people in that situation before it goes to far, but I don't think anyone enters into that decision lightly.

[rrneck]

19. Imagine

...living as if you are wading through chest deep molasses.

...realizing you just spent an afternoon staring at a wall.

...your mind churning furiously to find a solution and always looping back to the same realization that there is no solution.

...trying to plan a life around the few hours a day when you can think clearly enough to get anything done.

...listening to people complement you on something you have done well and always wondering what you might have done had you not spent most of your energy just getting started.

...having the first thought that goes through your mind every day that you would rather die than face another day.

...a good day is when you only contemplate suicide once or twice. A bad day is when you think about it hourly.

...wondering if every sad moment will become a spiral into another black hole.

Imagine trying to build a life around liabilities that only you can see and feel and trying to keep those liabilities from affecting those around you only to see yourself fail at that as well.

Easy way out? It's a hard road to a harder exit.

[DerekG]

20. Unfortunately, I don't have the option

I feel the desire often, but my death would destroy my mother and sister. So I just have to endure.

[I Have A Dream]

56. I'm sorry, Derek.

I hope that things get better for you soon.

:(

[jobycom]

21. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

I've been surrounded my whole life by mental illness, from hardcore schizophrenia to mild depression. My brother has twice tried to kill me (that I know of), and has gone from the big brother I used to want to be to a ghost I can barely talk to because of the strain it puts on him. My grandmother tried to kill herself a few dozen times over her life. Never succeeded, but some of my relatives did. Several friends killed themselves, ranging from high school kids who couldn't take the rejection of a girlfriend, to a pregnant mother who learned her husband was cheating and was going to leave her as soon as her baby was born--she was eight months pregnant. Twice I've been close to murder-suicides, too, where the husband got too angry, shot his wife, then shot himself. There was no mental illness in either case.

So it's surrounded me--mental illness and suicide. It played a big role in shaping who I am, and almost ended who I am a couple of times--never through my hand, btw.

Some people kiil themselves by losing a battle with mental illness. Some do it in a sudden fit of overwhelming grief. Some are doing it to pay someone back for some perceived wrong (like the IRS bomber). And some do it to take the easy way out. A pissed-off husband who has just murdered his wife is often a coward trying to escape consequences. An angry employee who kills his boss then himself is often a coward taking the easy way out. To lump that type of suicide with the pregnancy and hormonal influenced suicide of a broken-hearted and betrayed pregnant mother is not helpful.

[seabeyond]

23. you are right of course jodycom. thanks for the more balanced perspective. nt

[elocs]

22. As Ann Landers used to say, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem".

Unfortunately, upon contemplating suicide the sufferer is in such despair that it seems the only solution to a problem that cannot see as temporary.

Years ago I went to see the movie "Fried Green Tomatoes" when I saw a young woman I knew out on a date to the movie. She seemed happy and in good spirits, so I was shocked the next week to learn she had shot herself, leaving a 9 year old son. Sometimes people are not what they seem and can put a good face on it.

[Sky Masterson]

24. I don't believe that it is the same for all people or situations.

For me to kill myself(if I wasn't physically suffering or terminally ill)
would feel like the "weak" and "it's the easy way out" thingie.
But that is just me.
I believe that this is a complex question with many answers.

[Tobin S.]

26. Kick. This is a good thread.

:dem:

[Skittles]

27. I hear you

my dad killed himself and I endured seeing his depression growing up......people who say shit like that, they have no clue, and I consider them lucky they have no clue

[PaddyBlueEyes]

31. self delete

[Orsino]

32. Most DUers will acknowledge that torture will eventually break anyone...

...but not that life itself can be torture, sometimes, for some.

I think I understand blaming the victim as a coping mechanism for survivors, but that shit ought to be kept to oneself.

[Iggo]

35. It is a coping mechanism to see them as 'quitters'.

It's probably natural. I know it is for me. It's my initial gut reaction. But nowadays, with some experience and wisdom under my belt, I'm over it after a couple of blinks. Wasn't always that way, though. Live and learn.

[Bucky]

41. I wonder if there's some failed & misdirected attempt at reverse psychology in that statement

It may come out a twisted version of the notion that suffering is character building. Of course it's not. Overcoming suffering is character building, but suffering itself is just sucky.

Not that I think reverse psychology is going to very effective with someone suffering from depression in the first place.

[mcctatas]

40. I contemplated how to respond to this for some time...

On Thursday, May 13th, my ex-husband took his own life in the backyard of our former home. He was a deeply disturbed guy and I am left with many different emotions, chief among them anger and guilt. That being said, I think he weighed his options and made a choice, I think it was a selfish choice and I think that it was short sighted. He robbed his children of a father and left them with the legacy of "what if?". I think that there is enough blame to go around, and some of it is his.

[Orsino]

48. I'm sorry for your loss.

I think that we can never know enough about the feelings of a suicidal person to dismiss any of them as mere cowardice or selfishness.

But for the same reason, I'll never be able to rule it out completely.

[Iggo]

33. If it was easy, more people would do it.

And thank goodness it ain't easy.

Permanent solutions for temporary problems scare me to death.

[Forkboy]

34. The thing is, in the grip of a serious bout of depression those problems don't seem temporary.

And in some cases they truly are permanent.

And once depression turns to despair suicide can be like a siren's call. Even if you tell yourself that your problems are temporary your mind isn't accepting it. Depression distorts how things are perceived in a major way. Sometimes you come out of a fog and can't believe you were that close to doing it. For me it's tempting even when I'm not feeling overly depressed, that's the hold it can get on you. Scary stuff and tempting stuff all at once. :crazy:

[Iggo]

36. And that's what scares me.

What if I'm too deep into despair to know the difference?

Scary stuff indeed.

[bookworm65t]

37. I won't be judgmental of suicides

I do not know everything that is going on in their lives, or what is in their heads that would nudge them over the edge. If I know someone thinking suicide, I would try to get them help. But judgmental I will not be. I have been down this road many times (one failed attempt), and I would like to think that I have an understanding of what the person MAY BE going through. But I don't know everything, and that is the key for me.

:shrug: ;(

[Dappleganger]

38. It runs in my family.

My great-grandfather, grandfather both took their own lives (gunshot to the head).

My father, his mother and sister have tried (and failed) multiple times.

When I was 21 my closest friend who was the mother of three little girls took her own life in an effort to save her children from their molesting father (which failed).

My experiences with each of these being different, the only thing I can say is that most people who make those comments are ANGRY because of the aftermath. Parents and children who don't understand what could have happened, was it their fault and could they have stopped it? I spent many, many sleepless nights blaming myself for not being there at the last moment for my best friend. She had called while I was out and mom took a message. I had to live with that.

The problem with a successful suicide is the damage which is left behind in the wake. Another friend of mine had a husband to take his life in their house, INSIDE of one of their daughter's bedrooms (hanging). Can you even imagine how devastating this can be to a child or a wife??

This kind of thing is different than one making their own choice to leave this world due to an extended illness or old age. I fully support those who wish to live with dignity.

Yes, mental illness is very real...it runs in my family, my father is bipolar and we life with the realities of it every day. I worry that one day it will rear its ugly head in me as well. And yes, the thought of taking my life did cross my mind when I was in college. What stopped me dead in my tracks was remembering my friend Nan and the aftermath, and how it destroyed her girls' lives. It made me think that wasn't the right thing to do, there had to be a better way. And clearly there is (and I got help, thankfully).

People who take their own lives ARE in a bad place, it's like a bag has been pulled over their head and they can't see straight. But there is a certain myopic selfishness which also drives them to not see the consequences of their actions. Having been left in the aftermath, I know what it's like.

My sister and I live in fear every day of getting that phone call saying my father has taken his life. We've done everything we can for him (legally and otherwise) to no avail. It won't surprise me in the least if it happens, I only hope it doesn't for the sake of my children.

[Odin2005]

43. Depression is a mental illness, NOT a character flaw!

[Terra Alta]

45. Three years ago I contemplated suicide.

I was hospitalized twice in 2007 due to suicidal thoughts. It is not a decision made lightly, anyone who has ever tried to take their own life has a mental illness and should get help for it. I think if people knew more about mental illnesses, there wouldn't be such a stigma attached to it. People just need to be educated.

BTW, I am on meds now and in therapy and I am doing much better now than I was in 2007.

[mcctatas]

46. I know someone who committed suicide very recently...

my ex-husband took his own life on Thursday, May 13th and I hope you realize that sometimes, suicide is an act of control and violence against the people left behind. Of course some people choose suicide because they find life too painful or are so mentally ill that they cannot see any other way, but NOT FUCKING ALWAYS! What my ex did wasn't cowardly, it wasn't the easy way out, it was a well planned concious effort to harm myself and the kids, thankfully it didn't work out. If not for a set of stupid and lucky circumstances, I would have gotten the text that the detectives told me was designed to get me to his house, my elder daughter would have come home from school to find his body and her world would have been even more tragically altered than it already is. He knew the kids were coming to his house after school, it was his weekend. He was not some tragic character or an innocent victim so despondent that he saw no other options, he was a controlling, violent man who thought hurting me and the kids was worth dying for

[flvegan]

47. How horrible.

I'm sorry. I don't have any words to address this. I've watched this from the sidelines for a while, and I just have nothing.

Take care of you and those kids.

[Rosie1223]

49. Dang, Girl

Sorry you and your kids have to go through such a terrible ordeal.

:hug:

[Shining Jack]

51. OMG,what a nightmare !

What a terrible and disgusting thing to do to his own children and to you ! You're saying that he was a controlling,violent man...have he ever been physically violent with any of you ? I'm suicidal myself but the main reason I've never even made an attempt,despite seriously thinking about it for years,is that I don't want the people I love to suffer.What he did is truly fucked up.:cry:

[TreasonousBastard]

53. Every time I think I've heard it all, I read something like this. I can't imagine what...

you're going through, but it looks like the worst is over now, and you and the kids have the future to look forward to.

A future that has got to be better than that past.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. yes, i havent answered this thread, but as many people there are who commit suicide

there are that many reasons.

the individual differences in why we do something vary.

an asshole who commits suicide can do so because its the ultimate act of assholery

a good person who commits suicide, might do it for a good reason (in the east, to prevent shame on their family or whatever)

a depressed person can do it because they see no light at the end of the tunnel

there are many many reasons why we do what we do.

[Mad_Dem_X]

50. My cousin took his own life. I would never joke about suicide.

My cousin died in 2001, and it shocked the whole family. Apparently, he had major mental issues that we didn't know about, and for whatever reason, he didn't go and try to get help. He hanged himself instead.

We never know what goes on inside another person's head. I would never judge a person (or their loved ones) because they chose to end their life.

[TreasonousBastard]

52. I knew two people who committed suicide, and possibly a few more...

that I just lost touch with and never did know what happened to them.

The thing that strikes me most is that neither of them were in any financial, health, or other distress. They had none of what most of us would consider "problems" that they were escaping. Unlike those I know who are broke, homeless, physically diseased, or otherwise pretty much out of hope, (and keep fighting) the two who killed themselves had a lot to live for, if they could only accept that they did.

I can't talk about every suicide, and I'm sure there are many roads to such a dire decision, but the two I know of must have been suffering incredibly from some mental anguish, since there was so little visible to the outside world.

I kinda take that back, a little-- one was a fiancee of mine, many years ago, who had some such dark thoughts and was being treated for low seratonin levels in her brain after much "therapy" and it looked promising. Apparently, it wasn't so promising after all.

Both families, curiously, were in denial that it was suicide. The overdose of pills in one case wasn't really the cause of death, and the gunshot to the head in the other must have been a murder or accident.

(No matter what the medical examiner said.)

[jxnmsdemguy65]

54. With all the economic dispair out there...

I'm surprised that we don't hear of more suicides, within our social circles and in the news.

I've know one person, a family relation, who committed suicide. It has a horrible, horrible effect on all the survivors. In that since, I cannot help but feel it is a incredibly selfish thing to do.