Need recommendations for a flatscreen tv for under around $500

[Orrex]

I don't trust myself to choose, because I've seldom seen a floor model in a store that didn't seem to have a grainy, jittery picture with serious pixelation and image delays. But these have been the larger screen tvs; the 19" screen we bought two months ago has great image quality.

We'd like something in the 27" to 32" range, I suppose.

Any suggestions? It's not urgent that we buy one, but our CRT isn't getting any younger, and it's hard to read text in the bottom third of the screen...



Thanks!

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. We just bought a Vizio LCD recently. It's gotten good reviews online and I certainly

thought comparing the TVs side-by-side that it had the best picture. (Although I think some had composite cables hooked up instead of HDMI)

[Orrex]

2. Thanks--I've been checking out Vizio as well

And I don't have the hardware for HDMI in any case, so I'll most likely be going with composite cables, too.


Thanks for your input!

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Save up for the HDMI set up if you can. It makes a world of difference.:^) (We figured since

we were paying DISH for their HD package we ought to actually make it worth the money and go that route. :) )

[Orrex]

4. We're on Comcast

I guess I'd need to get a new signal-box, because the ones we have now don't offer an HDMI output port.

[Captain Hilts]

39. They deliberately degrade the standard, digital cable broadcast to force you into upgrading.

That's why cable reception is WORSE than over-the-air reception now.

[quakerboy]

7. HDMI

is worth it as compared to the composite. I got an extra HDMI cable from ebay for $5 including shipping, and it works as well as the more spendy retail cords that seem to run 30-80 perfectly.

I too have Comcast. Havnt changed anything there, still watching tv in 480 as well. One of these days.

The one question that has been running through my mind, something that actually disturbs me and i think warrants some research, is if a regular cable line can carry the HD programming to the cable box, why does running it to the TV in best quality take a new type of cord?

[Orrex]

9. If you keep asking questions like that, you're going to get us all killed.

I hereby formally disavow all knowledge of this conversation.

[quakerboy]

11. That question is actually the main reason

I havn't upgraded my comcast service. I refuse to jump until I gain at least a basic understanding of whats going on.

[quakerboy]

12. dupe

[Schema Thing]

22. Think of it as raw data...

that is reassembled in your cable box (or your TV if your TV has a HD tuner and you aren't using a cable box).


Or, compare it to the SVGA cord that runs from your computer monitor from your computer - a simple Ethernet cord wouldn't do the trick.

[quakerboy]

24. A few questions

Since the raw data can be sent via a regular cable cord, why would my TV not be able to assemble it? It can assemble the data for regular tv via that cord. It has the capability to assemble HD data from other cords. So why would they not put in put the ability to assemble HD data from that same cord(Though, now that you mention it, I should check if I have an HD tuner. But I assert that it shouldn't even need to be a question)? What is the point of a new type of cord, other than designed obsolescence, if the old cords can and will be carrying that same data?


As to the other, a simple ethernet cord does do that trick. I do it all the time via remote login, running the necessary video data to my computer, along with other data simultaneously. If one figured out the wires, I fail to see why one could not design a monitor to receive video data via a cat5 cable, given some soldering and the desire. I already know that I can do PC resolution Video via VGA, DVI, S-video, USB, HDMI, and secondarily via Cat5 cables, each with its own plug. The variety of computer plugs similarly makes little sense to me, and I fail to understand why they could not simplify to one unified plug format there either.

I am similarly frustrated with the PCI/PCI-e card slots, and the various levels of those. I would love to be able to have 2 video cards, but most systems I find only have one PCI-e slot, which limits my capabilities, without offering me any useful aspect other than useless backward compatibility for things that often will not work with the newer OS's anyway.

[Schema Thing]

36. It's all a big conspiracy

the engineers are the truly evil people in this world.

[EOTE]

41. RG-6 cable IS capable of transmitting HD to your television IF you have an internal tuner.

If your TV has an HD tuner integrated, you can simply hook up an antenna via RG-6 and you can watch HD material over the air that way. If it doesn't have an integrated tuner, you'd need to hook up an external tuner or cable box. Via the cable box, you'd need some other way of sending an HD signal to your TV. The only methods of sending HD directly to a TV are DVI/HDMI and Component cables (or perhaps VGA if you have a compatible television). And as to why you couldn't use Cat5 to send a VGA signal, well, you could probably use two Cat5 cables to transmit a signal to and from d-sub connectors, but a single woudln't do it because d-sub (VGA) connectors are 15 pin while Cat5 are 8 pin. And while you can do "PC resolution video" via an S-Video connection, it would be rather low resolution and interlaced as s-video isn't capable of sending progressive video. If you consider 480i to be PC resolution video, then I guess it is possible. If you're using a USB adapter, it's changing the video format in the device itself and is not actually outputting anything pertaining to USB.

As for your PCI/PCI-E issue, keep in mind that they still make standard PCI video cards, so you can add an extra video card that way. Or you can get a system with an integrated video card as well as an additional PCI-E slot. Or you could buy a mother board that has 2, 3 or even 4 PCI-Express slots as a lot of them are designed to work with multiple GPUs for gaming setups. Or, if you simply want to have multiple monitors for your desktop, just about all video cards have at least 2 video outputs. The new eye-finity enabled cards have at least 3, so you might be able to do all you need with just a single card.

[quakerboy]

47. Thank you for that elucidation

It would seem that its all about how the signal is decoded. I still think we would do better to standardize things, pick some cord type and make it as versatile and universal as possible.

I guess I find it astounding that a "cable" cable, a seemingly very simple wire and connection, can carry the data for a normal TV signal, much less HD or internet service. But given that they can do so, it seems odd that we need 20 different ways to send signals between various devices. And as I think that, the idea of designed obsolescence comes into my mind, and I start getting suspicious.

As to cards, my experience is that once you pop in a card, the integrated video gets shut down. And I have as yet to find a reasonably priced way to have more than 2 video outputs active at once.

[EOTE]

48. RG6 simply carries data.

RG6 only has two leads, but it's a hearty cable it can pass on an awful lot of bandwidth. No actual video is passed along the cable, instead analog or digital video is decoded from the signal passed on the cable via either an external or internal decoder. From there, if the tuner is external, HD video can be passed in the analog domain via component cables or DVI or digitally via DVI or HDMI. So right now in the U.S., there are only three ways to pass on HD video and one of those (DVI) is pretty much obsolete when it comes to home theater and is pretty much used with PCs exclusively. DVI can pass both an analog or a digital signal while HDMI is digital only. SoDVI and HDMI are backwards compatible to an extent, so long as the video source and display device are both digital. So for the moment, home theater pretty much has two ways of passing HD video, analog via component and digital via HDMI. If your display device is capable of displaying 1080P via component video, chances are you'll notice no difference between HDMI and component cables. My projector has an HDMI input, but I use component anyway because it takes too long to switch between HD and SD channels. With component, the change is almost instantaneous. Pretty much the only advantage HDMI offers is that it combines audio into the same cable. The big drawback is HDCP (high definition content protection) which requires both the display device as well as the source device to be HDCP compliant and "handshake" before 1080P video will be displayed. This has caused me much headache when setting up friend's home theaters as even devices that say they're HDCP compliant can cause an awful lot of problems and it can be very difficult to determine which side the problem is on. That's why I stick with component cables if I can.

As for your card issue, you'll probably need to go into your computer's BIOS in order to enable your integrated video once you've inserted a PCI-E video card. And you can probably still add a regular PCI card after that. How many displays are you looking to drive?

[quakerboy]

49. I get that

Kinda. How can it carry a lot of bandwith... That's the part where my education fails me. Its 2 leads, granted thick ones, but either electrons flow down the wires or the do not. The fact that those two wires can carry several layers of undecoded data that my TV or cable box can turn into picture at the same time as it carrys this post back to DU, etc, simultaneously is what amazes me. Give me two wires and electricity, i can turn a light bulb on or off, and that's about it.

Ideally, I would normally run my two monitors, and have the option to use my TV screen as well. The Card has 3 outputs, and I use the VGA for the smaller monitor, the DVI for the better. And the S-video sits useless, as does the built in VGA out. Either of which I have open plugs for on the TV. Everything I have been reading has told me that PCI-E video does not sit well with enabling other video sources(the onboard or a PCI card).

Thanks for your patience with me. There's a lot I know, but whole layers of information that I do not have and am only grasping at.

[EOTE]

52. Most PCI-E cards have the ability to run 2 monitors as well as a TV.

Check out any of the 8000 or GT? series NVidia cards or any of the 4000 series Ati cards. They'll typically have dual DVI output (both of which can accept a VGA adapter) plus a Vivo output which can output either S-Video or Component for your TV. Is the S-Video going unused for a reason? As for your integrated video, have you attempted to enable it via BIOS? I work with a number of Lenovo desktops which have PCI-E graphics and I'm typically able to get them to run simultaneously with the integrated video if the integrated video is enabled via BIOS (it's disabled by default).

[quakerboy]

53. The svideo

is run to the TV. However, I can only seem to get lines active at once. So I can have Monitor A and B, Monitor A and TV, monitor b and TV, but not all three at the same time. This is on an ATI Radeon 4350.

As to the integrated, I did get into the bios on my old computer(HP) and it didnt work. On the new one(Compaq, got it on halloween)I havnt yet, I assumed it would be the same.

[doc03]

28. I have a Vizio and the picture is good. I do have a major

complaint about mine, the text is too small. I can't see the Channel number and other info more than about 8 feet away max. It's a 22" set and the text is like newsprint. My other TV is a 40" Sony and you can could probably read the text from 50 feet.

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. My vizio is twice as big so I don't have that particular problem, but if I stretch or zoom the pic

the words run right off the screen, so I still can't read it. LOL

[EOTE]

40. I think you mean component, not composite.

Composite is a single RCA cable and composite isn't even capable of transmitting DVD resolution (480P) yet alone HD resolutions (720P and 1080P). As far the difference between component and HDMI, it's pretty much negligible. HDMI is more convenient because you can carry both audio and video on the same cable, but the quality is pretty much the same as component assuming you're using decent cables. I still component cables for my projector because my projector takes too long to switch between SD and HD channels.

[quakerboy]

5. Got a Toshiba regza 32

It does very well, my only regret is that it dosnt do the link to my wifes PS3 so that we can use a single remote for it all.

I also got a samsung monitor recently, and it is amazing. From what I have read, it seems that they are considered top of the heap for the general market right now.

Make sure you get what you want, features wise. IE Dont get suckered by a 720, if you want real hd. Similarly, dont pay more for what you do not want.

[Orrex]

6. Thanks!

We're only at the "research" stage right now, so we'll add your suggestions to our list of things to consider!

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Yeah, we got the 1080 120Hz. Definitely a difference from the lower number ones.

[quakerboy]

10. Yup

I am still trying to figure out the point of the 720's. I guess i was out of the paying attention to technology, and missed that. Was it an intermediate step that held on past its usefullness, or was it just a attempt to use the HD concept to sell a cheaper product to milk consumers?

I would say not just 1080, but 1080p.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. I think it was a half-step. My dad has one he got just before mom died so that would have been

5 years ago. (Not a flat screen though.)

[supernova]

17. HD broadcast signal is in 720

Your local affiliate and the networks are only broadcasting in 720 right now. I don't know about the cable channels.

But if you watch a lot of movies and your own DVDs and Blue Ray, then yeah 1080p is the way to go.

[quakerboy]

25. Interesting

Did not know that. Thanks.

I havn't noticed it making a huge difference for DVD's, which makes sense, given that as I understand it, the source is still only 480. I have no idea if the PS3 upscales it, but that can only do so much. One of these days I am going to simultaneously get a the same DVD and bluray and do a direct comparison to see how much is actually better, and how much is wishful thinking.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

34. Half true.

ABC, FOX, and PBS broadcast in 720p. CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i.

[EOTE]

42. CRTs aren't sold anymore.

So there's really no such thing as a 1080i display anymore. All 1080 displays now are 1080P. However, the great bulk of HD material is still 720P, so to say that 720P sets are suckers' bets is really foolish, especially if you're looking at a set less than 50".

[trof]

14. Your electric bill is going up.

I'm just sayin'.

[quakerboy]

15. Whys that?

[LeftyMom]

32. Depends on his old TV. And the new models vary a lot.

And assuming he doesn't leave the thing on all day it shouldn't matter very much, really. I haven't noticed any bump from mine and it's only slightly smaller than an interstate adjacent billboard.

[LibertyLover]

16. We have a Sony 50 inch 1080

in the living room and love it. We have Verizon FiOS and between the 2, have a good, clear, sharp picture. We want to upgrade the 19 inch Sony regular tv in the bedroom eventually and want to get a 30 or 32 inch 1080. To be honest, we'll probably go with a Vizio. Their picture quality is very good and their prices are not bad either.

[Mutley]

18. I don't know how you feel about Walmart, but

they will be having some pretty awesome deals on flatscreen televisions on Black Friday.

http://bfads.net/Walmart

If you can't abide Walmart, click the Best Buy link on the left on that site. They have some good Black Friday deals, too.

[quakerboy]

26. If you dont mind being trampled

possibly to death...


sorry, couldnt resist that bait.

[alfredo]

19. We have a Panasonic 26" and we're happy with it. I attach my MacMini to

it sometimes too.

[hunter]

20. We went to Costco and bought a Vizio.

Don't ever trust "side-by-side" comparisons at some dealers who will set up the televisions so the best picture is on the televisions they most want to sell.

We get HDTV over the air, which is great if there is anything on worth watching. Our cheap DVD player supports progressive scan which along with the digital processing magic of the Vizio makes an ordinary DVD about as good as it gets, and better than the picture on any analog set.

I think cables in retail stores are a huge rip-off. The dealers know you are there to spend money and you won't question them much when you see the price of the "special" cables required. I've never seen any difference between expensive retail store cables and no-name generic cables I've purchased on the internet.

Our Vizio came with one digital cable but we don't have anything to hook it too. It's unlikely I'll subscribe to hi-def cable or satellite or buy a Blu-Ray player anytime soon, at least not until the Blu-Ray players and disks start showing up in the thrift stores. That's just the way I am, way behind the curve on technological innovation. If everyone was like me the Amish would probably be the driving force of technological advancement.

[GOPisEvil]

21. I have a 720P 32" Vizio I need to get rid of.

Still works. No free delivery though. :D

Actually, Vizio makes a decent TV at a good price.

[Chan790]

23. Save up more and splurge on the higher-end model...

Honestly, the difference between the $500 HDTV and the $1000 HDTV is worthwhile...it's not like the difference between a Hyundai Sonata and BMW 320. (Hint: The cheaper Sonata is a better car. It's just not as sexy because it ain't got the right bling on the hood.)

If $500 TVs were worthwhile...more people whose jobs it is to watch films on TV would buy them. (Even my moron borderline-destitute indie-film-producer roommate owns a $1000 TV and I made more money working at Sears than he did this year.)

[EOTE]

44. That really depends on what you're looking for.

There are plenty of good TVs in the $500 range. Heck, even some larger ones if you know where to look (slickdeals.net and fatwallet.com are really good places to start). I've got a 720P projector that I got a few years ago and after I calibrated it, I'll put my picture quality up against about every LCD and plasma out there today, even 1080P sets. And I know just about how good any set is capable of looking. My reference display device is a professional quality SGI CRT that is capable of outputting 2560x1600.

As for your Hyundai vs. BMW analogy, I'm not sure that's apt either. There currently is no 320 BMW in the U.S., there used to be a 4 cylinder 320i that they made in the early 80s, but it hasn't been sold in the U.S. in quite a while. I'm pretty sure it's no longer sold in Europe now either. So yes, I'd rather have a new Sonata than an '83 320, but that's hardly a fair comparison. Now, if you were to compare a new Sonata against a new 325i or 328i, then the BMW has a rather large advantage in my book (comparing I6 model BMWs to the V6 Hyundai). I'd say that interior quality is similar, but the BMW still has the edge with its more modern and intuitive layout. And Consumer Reports have reported both cars to be fairly reliable (though BMWs, being German, tend to be more expensive to repair). However, the areas where the BMW truly excels are the engine and handling. The 325i makes slightly less power than Hyundai's 3.8L V6, but BMW's I6 is incredibly smooth and has torque everywhere and is less midrange intensive than the Hyundai's big 6. Any model above the 325i (328i, 330i, 335i) makes a good deal more power than the Hyundai 6. Also, BMWs are rear wheel drive (with the exception of the X models which are all wheel drive), and the Hyundai is FWD. Front wheel drive will never match rear in terms of handling capability. Start going into the twisties and the Hyundai just won't be able to keep up. Hyundai just released its first RWD platform in the form of the Genesis Coupe and Sedan. Putting a Genesis Coupe up against a 3 series would be a bit more of a fair fight. The BMW would still come out on top, but the Genesis undercuts the price of the BMW quite a bit. Get a Genesis Coupe with the 4 cylinder turbo and put the price difference into some go fast/stop fast parts and you could have yourself a BMW beater while saving yourself a few grand.

[elocs]

27. Even if you don't buy there, checking out the user reviews at Bestbuy.com is always a good idea.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/TV-Video/Televisions/abcat0101000.c?id=abcat0101000

[rcrush]

29. I'll sell you mine

42 in Samsung plasma 720p blah blah. I'll sell it to you for $475. You have to come pick it up though.

[nytemare]

30. Here are black friday deals for TV's

A great deal of them actually end up being available online come midnight Thursday/Friday.

Sony is believed to be the best, with Samsung a close 2nd. Toshiba, Sharp and Vizio are good quality, as well.

I got a smaller 20" Sharp for my bedroom on Black Friday, and it was available online, so you don't have to worry about the stores. In my living room, I have a 32" Samsung, and the picture is gorgeous. The prices have come down 200 dollars on the set I bought just in a year. Amazing.

http://www.blackfriday.info/category/television-black-friday-deals.html

on edit, here is a samsung for $400 now. Wow.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+32%22+Class+/+720p+/+60Hz+/+LCD+HDTV/9230708.p?PID=1234320&id=1218063831450&ci_sku=9230708&ref=39&ci_src=11138&loc=01&URL=http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9230708&type=product&id=1218063831450&ci_src=11138&ci_sku=9230708&AID=10474050&skuId=9230708

[LeftyMom]

31. My Dad got very good service from Samsung when he had a problem.

Actually, he got really bad service from the first contract repair people they sent out, he called Samsung's 800 number to complain about the service people making him wait for a part, and Samsung made it right by sending somebody else over to just swap his TV out on the spot for a newer, nicer model the same size. They didn't have to do that, he'd have been happy enough if they'd just sent out a different repair company.

Good service like that is rare enough that it really improved my estimation of them as a company. The picture looks fantastic, too.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[JCMach1]

35. Panasonic has the easiest to use interface by far... and some of the best models

We have a 42" Viera.

[RebelOne]

37. I recently bought a 32-inch flat screen TV at J&R Electronics.

I paid $349 with free shipping and no tax. Check it out at www.JR.com. Great prices there.

[Captain Hilts]

38. Best Buy's store brand DYNEX. 32" for $327. nt

[whistler162]

43. And the 42" version is very good and often around $550

We, work, have two in place.

[attar]

45. Vizio 32" lcd tv

How about the Vizio VOJ320F 32" lcd television? It only costs around $569 and is one of the best LCD TV in its price range.

Hope this helps.

[pokerfan]

46. How about a 32" for $299?

Best Buy has a http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23174%3B+-+32%22+Class+/+720p+/+60Hz+/+LCD+HDTV/9134901.p?PID=404255&id=1218054462391&ref=39&loc=01&lp=1&URL=http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9134901&st=dynex+32%22&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1218054462391&cp=1&AID=10597222&skuId=9134901&st=dynex%2032%22">32-inch LCD HDTV for $299.99. Reviews look good (4-stars-out-of-5). Plus it's got a ton of inputs: two composite, one S-video, two component, three HDMI, one PC and one RF.

[pinniped]

50. I bought a couple Samsung Series5 32" LCDs at Costco a few months ago.

They were on sale for $499.99. I was there yesterday and the sale price was $399.99+ tax.

[tigereye]

51. off the back of a truck?

just kidding :crazy:

[TrogL]

54. Wait!!!

The 3-D compatible TV's are coming with the polarizing screens. Some laptops already have them.

Wait for them to hit the shelves and another 6 months for the price to come down to a reasonable level.

Or wait for the 4096p's.