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So, my son says I'm not the type of person who throws anyone out into the cold

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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:01 PM
Original message
So, my son says I'm not the type of person who throws anyone out into the cold
I asked his friend (not girlfriend) to leave. She's been living w/ us for a year.

Last week she went to see if her grandmother would take her in. Apparently, grandma's house is in foreclosure. That's a no go.

She went to her mother. Her mother's lease is up and she's planning to move to Miami in the spring, so she's not renewing the lease and instead moving in w/ a cousin or something. So, her mom won't take her either.


I've been offered a bigger apartment for the same amount of rent, and there'd be room for all 3 of us... but honestly, I kind of had my heart set on living alone some time in the near future.

My son and his friend are both under-employed and do not contribute to the household expenses... and it's getting to the point where it's getting too hard for me to carry everyone.


So, am I the type of person who throws someone out into the cold?


How the hell did this get to be MY problem?
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. She's been living with you for a year, yet pays NOTHING??
It's not your problem. Throw her out. If you want to be charitable, give her a month.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well you could just charge them room and board
that would seem to help solve your problem. Charge them what you think they can afford. That way you are not having to foot their costs and you don't have to toss anyone out in the cold.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. My dear MissMillie!
It's NOT your problem. Your son is trying to guilt trip you into thinking that it is.

Throw both of them out.

NOW.

This is ridiculous.

They are taking you for all you're worth.

Harden your heart, and throw them out!

Man, it makes me mad to see them taking advantage of you like this. If I were in your neighborhood, they'd get a mouthful from me!

:grr:

:hug: :hug: for you!

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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. no reason for you to carry everyone
If they are underemployed they still should be able to give you something.

And why should you get a bigger apt and pay more rent for them to freeload?

I don't know what's up with your son, but you've done more than your share to take care of his friend.

Time to say "bye-bye". And I bet she'll find another solution, but honestly, it's not your problem.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tell them to start pitching in more.
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 02:44 PM by JVS
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. toss them out
It may be cold, it may be harsh and it may also be the best thing that ever happens to them. Baby birds have to leave the nest and learn to fly sometime, sooner or later. Might as well be sooner.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. Your place, your rules
Supporting your son is one thing but his friend is another. She needs to learn some life lessons and now is a good time to learn them.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. How old are they? Teenagers?
Under 18, they might just need some guidance.

Over 18, you don't need the burden.

Hey, if nobody else will take them in, maybe an Army recruiter ... nah, I wouldn't wish that on them. maybe.

:hi:
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Tell him it's September and it's not cold yet....
MissMillie, IMO you're at the stage in your life where you should be able to live the way you'd like - and if that's on your own, so be it. Give a kid a 20 years at home and you're above and beyond the required 18. Anything more than 20 is totally discretionary on your part. And now your preference is to have the place to yourself - that's your perogative and a well-earned one.

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. I would set conditions and as Dear Abby would say - do some tough love
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 03:07 PM by LynneSin
I would hate to see anyone tossed out in the cold but you have your needs to deal with first which is not taking on your child and freeloading friends. And that's what they are both doing - freeloading.

I would create a lease for them to live under your roof and explain that if it is not solved you will be packing their stuff, moving it out of the home and changing the locks.

Tell them you expect either a small contribution towards rent/mortgage. They should also be responsible for their own laundry, cleaning up after themselves and keeping the noise to a reasonable volume. Also if they expect you to cook for them they should also donate towards food.

And as for kicking them out. Trust me, a few nights of figuring out where to stay will probably have them running back to you and ready to abide whatever rules are set.

BTW as for your space. I had a roommate for awhile (a paying one which always makes it more tolerable). I told her point blank that in the evenings I'm not a 'Cathy Chatty' - I keep the noise down, I work on my computer or watch one of the 3-4 TV shows I make a point to watch throughtout the year. She's been good with respecting those boundaries.
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newcriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I agree with Lynne.
I know this isn't your problem, but I know myself and I couldn't just turn my back on them. I think it's important that you add your son in all of the lease agreements and don't let them slack on it at all. If the deal is they clean up after themselves and they leave a mess I would give them ONE warning and that's it. If the deal is they pay you a small amount and they don't, give them one week to pay and if they still don't then tell them they have 30 days to leave. Whatever you decide to do good luck and I hope it works out for all of you.
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dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. I paid my mother rent
and there were no other options. I also did laundry, cleaned and did all the yard work when I lived at home after age 18.

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Moondog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. If I'm reading this correctly
your son and his friend are not in school, and you've been supporting both of them for a year or more. And the girl's family has declined to help her too.

It sounds to me as though you've been more than fair to both of them.

This isn't your problem. You've been sweet talked into thinking it is.

It is past time for the two freeloaders to hit the road. Way past time. And if you weren't the type to throw people out, you need to become one, before you are bled dry.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. If ya don't wanna throw 'em out...
...(and I don't blame you, I couldn't do it), then you at least gotta crack the whip.

It's really in your best interest, and in theirs.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. underemployed = some kind of job/money
where is it going? It should be going to rent and food if they aren't in school. PERIOD.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. You're not throwing them out - you're letting them choose to move out.
Seriously.

If they're working, and they're adults, they should be paying rent if you can't handle everything on their own.

At some point, someone has to teach them how to be adults.

Enabling is not the same as charity; not by a long shot. Charity is noble; enabling is mentally ill power-playing.

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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. They have no reason to leave.
Give them one. You're not the kind of person who throws people out in the cold, but become someone who expects every adult in the apartment to chip in. Negotiate an amount that is reasonable. Me, I'd start at half the rent and expenses because they should be paying at least that much. I'd settle a smaller portion based on them subletting a bedroom from me and still expect them to kick in on 1/2 of the other expenses. You probably don't need that much to offset the cost but it's also to offset the loss of privacy and peacefulness of a place alone. Save whatever you don't need for cash expenses and in six months or so present this nest egg to them as a down payment on a place of their own.

Win-win for you.
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. hey
you can only be so patient for so long.... :hi: :hug:
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Pool Hall Ace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. I never thought of myself as a softy, but
I would first require them to pay some sort of room and board. This will also help to teach them to budget their money.

If they start to get behind and offer too many excuses, I say then it's okay to give 'em the boot.

I had to do this when I first turned 18, even though I was living with my mom. That's how I learned there are no free rides. :D


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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. It is their problem,not yours. Living alone can be wonderful Do it.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Can they contribute to the upkeep of the house?
Do handy work? Maintain the yard? Wash dishes? Do the laundry?

Can they take some burden off of you in exchange for their meal ticket?


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busybl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. I didn't see how old they are
a lot of us go through this. You'd be surprised though how fast kids can find a place to stay.
If they are broke, maybe they can get some help like food stamps (yes I know it's a card now)
give them a deadline and when it comes tell them to hit the bricks. My opinion only, for what it's worth.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. God bless them -
they're young and strong, and can work two crappy jobs each to be able to pay rent somewhere - but NOT TO YOU!

Yes, you are the kind of person who throws someone out into the cold (where is it cold?) after your good nature has been used and abused. For them to live with you for a year and to contribute nothing is wrong. Just plain wrong.

You've done a lot, and good for you. If you keep the current situation going, you're going to hurt them. Right now, they need to stand on their own two feet, just the two of them against the world, and all that good stuff. While you're making it easy for them, they're not going to do anything, at an age when they should be eager to move forward.

Get that bigger apartment, be happy, live alone, enjoy yourself. You certainly can invite them over for dinner, or even for a weekend, if you want, but you've carried them long enough. They're not helpless, they're not without resources, they're just lazy and want it to be easy, and, you know what, Mom?

You did your job.

It's not your problem. It's theirs, but the attempted manipulation is kind of funny. After all you've done - and they've had a totally FREE ride, that's his comment?

Throw them both out, and enjoy your life. And do NOT feel guilty. Guilty is for when you've done something wrong - your problem is you did everything right - and we all know that the road to Hell really is paved with good intentions.

Those kids aren't "kids" - they're healthy, functioning adults, and it's time for them to shake their cute little butts and work for a living, support themselves, and spend a long, long time thanking you for all that you did for them.

But, your time is NOW, so go for it, my friend.

And good for you for all that did, but enough is enough................................
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astral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. You don't have to compromise any longer.
If you want to live alone, you have the right to live alone. I don't know how old your son is or if you want to get him out too but you don't owe it to somebody else to carry them. This generation of kids getting the boot out of the house is going to have a harder time getting on their feet and pulling off being self supporting than i had, waaaay back when (nobody had to boot me out of the house when it was time to go) -- it does seem to me an awful lot of young people would prefer not to grow up if there's an adult who will take them under their wing.

A kid needs to look within and find out what they got is in there, it's up to them, and only then can they begin to be forced to develop trust in themselves.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. Is the young woman working toward a goal?
I am counting the days until my charity case gets her Certificate. On that day she will have exactly 3 weeks to pack her stuff and get out of MY house.

If yours doesn't have a goal in mind, what's the plan? Live with you until she finds another caretaker? No goal, no prospects ... I'd kick her to the curb now. And I'll bet she finds some other kind-hearted soul to take her in for a time.
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RidinMyDonkey Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. If they really truly have no money and no options they should look to the state
For welfare, that's why it exists. No one should have to be homeless, nor should they have to keep ungrateful "guests" Tell them to get on the waiting list for subsidized housing where they'd only have to pay what they are able. My mother did it when I was a kid, there's no shame in asking for help.

I am of course assuming that they aren't underemployed by choice, and no one would be willing to room with them and share rent.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. nt
.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
28. just to answer a few questions
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 12:42 PM by MissMillie
My son will be 22 in October. He moved in 2 years ago after completely pissing away a considerable amount of money from his father's life insurance. He had a scholarship, but decided he'd rather spend money and party than go to school, so the scholarship is now history. He has a job, but they've been cutting hours A LOT. I have suggested he try to find something part-time, graveyard shift, to make up for what hours he's lost at his real job. The good news is that no matter how much they cut his hours, he's got health insurance.

He's lazy. He plays live Xbox about 5 to 7 hours a day, often doesn't go to bed until after 3 am, and is rarely up before noon. The sad part is that he is AMAZINGLY smart. He simply cannot find any motivation. I have suggested counseling, thinking that a therapist would sound a lot different to him than I do (I'm sure I just sound like a nag) but he won't go.

His friend (again, she is NOT a girlfriend) moved in one year ago after breaking up with her boyfriend. The story I was told then was that she'd be staying "just until she could find somewhere else to go." She is registered w/ a temp agency, and worked full-time for about 4 months earlier this year. Other than that, she hasn't worked at all. She has no transportation of her own, which makes finding work difficult. She will pretty much do whatever I ask around the house, but never does anything w/o being asked. She will be 22 in January.

I think that I've decided that I'm not moving into a larger apartment, and that in order to continue to live w/ me, these two will have to sign a contract--agreeing to pay at least some money toward food, and agreeing to be out w/i a certain amount of time. (I'd even be ok w/ not getting money for food as long as I knew they were saving toward getting out.) I also want a heck of a lot more help keeping that over-crowded place in order.

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DeepBlueC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. and if they say. I'm short this week...
put it on my tab? I think what you do is ask them to pay rent now and give them a deadline to find other arrangements. You are doing your son no good by enabling this behavior. And you won't change it with lectures. If one job isn't enough he can get a second part-time job. If it is just too unpleasant to work that hard for a marginal lifestyle, maybe then he will find it in his own interest to get some skills that will enable him to make more money and live a better life. But you are not letting hom learn the cost of his decisions for himself. And if you are the landlady he's not really afraid of the consequences of being delinquent. He is already quite confident that he can get what he needs from you so what he needs to get for himself on his own is enough to party and nothing more. Someone else needs to teach him the hard truths about growing up. He will just eat a hole in your heart trying to skip these classes while he is still living at home, and inviting freeloaders in to share. HE's done nothing to protect you from being used indefinitely. He asked if this woman could stay until she got on her feet and he doesn't really care if she ever does it seems.Not his problem I guess. Costs him nothing. Oh man I'd hate to be in your shoes.

If you make them sign a contract are you prepared to enforce it in court? If not, don't bother. If you draw up a contract it should be a proper rental agreement according to the applicable laws in your jurisdiction. There are terms and enforceable consequences in those and you will need to make an impression. The helping around the house will be a battle you will always have to fight. I doubt if it will ever just be done. You'll forever be the Mom trying to get the kids to do their chores and you shouldn't put yourself in that position for a lifetime. Somebody is going to have to marry this guy! Have mercy on her or him.

Good luck. What you have to do is not easy but it needs doing for your son's sake. I worry about him as well as about you. More so.
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Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. MissMillie...
I agree with the sentiment above that tough love is needed. The problem is - you're the one that needs it. Please understand, first of all, that I think you are absolutely wonderful, I enjoy your contributions to this community, and I have much respect for you. I also understand where you're coming from in regard to your son.

That said ... Your son has no motivation because, frankly, why should he? He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and there are no consequences to him. Not only will you enable HIS lazy ass, you will take in his lazy friends and enable them too. I've been watching your heart break over your son for what? Five years? It's an endless circle of complaints, and nothing ever changes. He takes advantage of you, and has has no respect for you. He uses you. I understand your motivations, but the fact is you are doing your son no favors. What if (god forbid) something were to happen to you? Who would take care of him then? You need to force your son to be responsible for himself - and that includes his own apartment. He may hate you for it now, but he'll thank you for it later. Kids, even those 22 years old, WANT discipline and structure. If they're not used to it they'll scream like banshees when they get their first taste, but they become happier, better adjusted, more confident and content when they've got it.

I hope I haven't offended you as that is not my intention at all. I really DO understand your mindset ... but it's hurting you, and your son. Good luck. :hug:
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. So many of the responses seem to assume that effort is all that is missing.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/aflcio-survey-yo...

On Tuesday, the AFL-CIO released the results of a disturbing new
Peter Hart survey, "Young Workers: A Lost Decade" that found that
about a third of workers under 35 live at home with their parents,
and they're far less likely to have health care or job security than
they were ten years ago. Even then, in a 1999 survey, when they faced
economic insecurity, they still had reasons to be hopeful.

--------------

I think providing a home for family is not a bad thing.




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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I agree to a point - hell I'm doing the same thing.
2 at home currently. But if there is work, even part time they need to contribute to the home too. And of there isn't any paying jobs then they need to do SOMETHING besides sit around playing video games and eating food bought and cooked by Mom.

It is hard to find work right now so I can (and do!) understand housing them, but they need to be doing some cooking and cleaning - maybe even go out and do a little volunteer work if nothing else - might be a lead or training for something with a paycheck later.

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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Interview stopper: parole
Kick him out?

I don't think so.

He's a great roomy.

Cleans, cooks, scrubs. He can stay.

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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Yours is contributing.
I think from what Miss Millie is saying hers isn't.

Yeah, things are hard enough right now, the record has to be a real block, I am sure.

In the 80's we hired a brother-in-law just out of prison and got a tax brake too - is that still around? Of course nobody is really hiring for anything so...
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. This is part of what keeps me from just letting him loose
It IS harder to find work out there. It's not the same world it was 30 years ago, when you could finish high school and get a job.

And the military is not an option for my kid (he has a degenerative eye disease that makes him ineligible).

But truth be told, as hard as it is, he's not giving it his all. I think he's depressed, but he's not interested in seeing a doctor or a therapist, so I feel like my hands are tied.
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
36. Wow. What a pickle.
I wish I had some wise advice for you, dear, but I really just don't know what to say.

I'll send you good wishes across the miles. :hug: (I'd light a candle for you, but candles and cats don't mix...)

:loveya:
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