How to respond to this?

[Beausoleil]

I recently got a package from my father that blew my mind. I guess you'd call it a book (manuscript?, manifesto?) that is basically all of Rush Limbaugh's and Ann Coulter's writings distilled into 400 pages. Apparently he's been working on this for a year or so. It's really disgusting, even though I haven't read it and won't, I skimmed a couple of paragraphs and almost lost my lunch.

I really don't know how to respond to this. He sent a copy to all of my brothers and sisters (there are 6 of us, I'm the oldest). I don't know what brought it on. We've never really discussed politics, and although I pretty much knew where he stood, I didn't realize that he was so closely aligned with Hitler. I haven't spoken to any of my siblings about it yet.

It has all of the most disgusting, vile, illogical arguments that we've come to despise from the most extreme of the right-wing extremists: liberals are evil liars, liberals lost the Vietnam war, liberals hate the military, liberal media this and that, liberals think this and that; he even disparaged FDR and said that any failures of GW Bush's term were due to Clinton holdovers and that WMDs were found and secretly shipped to Canada. Oh, and the Katrina victims brought it on themselves because of their own stupidity and laziness. On and on and on. 400 pages of this nonsense. I thought his disparagement of immigrants was especially hypocritical since his own grandparents were German immigrants.

I think a lot of this came about because my parents are "devout" Catholics and have gotten sucked into the right-wing propaganda machine because of social issues and because of my dad's career as an executive. I think he is also is the victim of a bad influence - his extremist older brother.

I'm very disappointed in my father, I thought he was more intelligent than this; I thought he was educated enough to know what a logical fallacy is. This thing is heavy on the fallacies especially of the ad hominem and ad verecundiam varieties, not to mention outright falsehoods. I've known him for 54 years and I've never been more offended and sad. He's only 75 and will probably be around for another 20 years.

How do I respond to this garbage? Ignore it for the good of family relations? Never speak to him again? Respond in kind, demolishing all of his illogical arguments and adding in a little truth about Limbaugh and Coulter? Or just tell him how offended and disappointed I am? My wife wants to lower the boom on him.

As I say about Rush, he's entitled to his own opinions (which I respect) but not to his own facts. I really don't appreciate this crap being shoved into my face unprovoked.

Suggestions?

Thanks.

[Shell Beau]

1. Hey, I have a question about your user name. Check your PM.

[HopeHoops]

2. I wouldn't respond at all.

My mom sends me all kinds of clippings "proving" her right wing points. They go into the recycling bin.

[Beausoleil]

3. Actually, that's what he said to do.

He said in a letter that he didn't want to cause any trouble and we were welcome to discard it.

Somehow, I'm not sure I can just let it go.

[HopeHoops]

8. I've given up on arguing with my mother.

It is like a candlelight dinner of fine cheese and merlot with Ritz crackers. Why bother?

[Beausoleil]

11. Yeah, you can't really argue with someone who's always right.

And won't listen to logic or common sense.

[Arkansas Granny]

32. Maybe you should just tell him that you don't want to cause any trouble either, but

please don't send you any more material like that and just leave it at that. If you've never discussed politics with him before, now may not be a good time to start.

[Iggo]

34. He invited you to chuck it if you wanted to.

I think you should take him up on his invitation.

[Bertha Venation]

4. I wish I had some good advice.

I would say, just ruminate for a while. Don't offer your dad a kneejerk reaction; don't write or speak to him in anger (or in disgust). Are you close with your sibs and are your political views similar to theirs? If so perhaps you can talk to them and that'll help you come to a decision.

Good luck. :)

[Beausoleil]

6. I thought I'd talk to one of my sisters

and completely avoid discussing it with one of my brothers (the one who probably gave him the Coulter books).

I know there's no point in debating since he seems to be of the conservative opinion that if you don't agree with them, it's not that you differ, it's because you're wrong.

Thanks.

[NJmaverick]

5. Conservativism is often the result of an emotional disorder

or personality flaw, rather than intelligence. My own father is pretty right wing. If we talk politics we end up in an argument. I doubt there is much you can do to change his mind. So either you ignore politics or you can go at it. Sounds like he is too far gone to listen to reason.

[Beausoleil]

7. Yeah, that's what has me a little worried.

And I know I'm not going to change his mind. He pretty much said so in the accompanying letter.

The problem I have is that I thought we were ignoring politics and then I (and my wife) get slapped in the face with this. I wondered if there was a reason that he felt like he had to defend his views.

[NJmaverick]

14. The fact that they are out of power

combined with the frenzy FAUX news is stirring them up to, has pushed more than one over the edge. Heck after Obama got elected my father didn't call me for a month (even though he calls me every week faithfully). Sadly I think there is little we can do but just grin and bear it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. If he did not ask for a direct reply/response/comment, then I would

ignore it. Say nothing at this point.

[Beausoleil]

10. No, he just wanted to let everyone in the family know how ol' grampa thinks.

Still don't know what brought it on. I suspect he must have made some disparaging remark about the president to some family members and it may have cause a disturbance. So he felt like he had to justify his views. But I'm just guessing.

I'm very tempted to ignore it, but my wife wants to unload on him. I definitely see her point. It won't change his views but might make us feel better that we didn't just stand there and take it.

[Orsino]

12. You probably feel you can't treat the incident as though he'd mailed you a box of his excrement...

...but it probably hurts rather like that. It's a personal attack on you because he is aware of your political bent, right, and not just a generalized manifesto?

It's fair to be hurt by his opinion of you, and fair (if painful and unproductive) to cut off all communication with him--right now. He seems to have forgotten that you are a person, or that you are a good person. If he can't learn to respect you, and can't even manage to be polite, he may need to be quarantined.

[Beausoleil]

13. Good points.

Even though I generally knew his political leanings, it's hard not to take it personally when I got beat over the head with it.

Like I mentioned to my wife, I feel like I just got mugged in my own home.

[wininboy]

15. Then tell your father that he hurt you

Tell him that you didn't realize that he hated his own child so much and that you will not inflict any more suffering on him with your presence.

[Beausoleil]

18. The sad part is that he probably doesn't realize that what he's said about liberals

applies to me.

I thought about asking him how he'd feel if I repeated some of the BS I've heard said about Catholics over the years.

[wininboy]

22. I assumed that was true

That's why I think you should put it to him the way I said.

Your father wants to pretend that his words have no effect, even though he knows better. That is why he asked you not to respond; He SAYS he can't be convinced otherwise, but he knows, HE KNOWS, that the words have an effect.

If I were in your position, and I have been, I would (and did) refuse to let escape responsibility. It's for his own good (and make sure you tell him that!) :-)

[Beausoleil]

24. I like your point about forcing him to accept responsibility.

[wininboy]

25. Bascially, he slapped you across the face and claimed you asked for it

and that you shouldn't argue with him because nothing will change his mind that you started it

So don't fight with him. Don't argue. Don't tell him that *HE* was wrong or say anything about HIM

Just tell him how hurt YOU are that he hates YOU so much that he would write a 400 page book denouncing YOU and everything YOU believe. And if he tries to tell you "That wasn't what I meant", then tell him:

"I know why you did it, so stop trying to convince me otherwise. Nothing you say will change MY mind"

Give him a choice - be right and be hated by your children, or be human and loved

[Gormy Cuss]

27. I think comparing his comments on liberals to things said about Catholics is a good tack.

A Roman Catholic of his age remembers how many people thought that having Kennedy in the White House would turn the U.S. into a Papist puppet.

[Beausoleil]

28. That's exactly what I though of

and that there was going to be a tunnel from the White House to the Vatican.

[skygazer]

16. My dad and I are polar opposites politically

Though I will say that my dad is not so far out into the fringe as to listen to Rush or Coulter. :scared:

I understand your need to do something and I think I would just mildly tell him, "Look Dad, I'm not sure why you sent me this stuff but I could not disagree more and I would appreciate it if you would not do it again."

Chances are that reason will not appeal to him - it's likely to just cause a rift. Ignoring it will fester in you and cutting off relations is very painful. I think just expressing your disagreement and making it clear you don't want any more of it could be cleansing. It is how I've chosen to deal with it and my father and I have a very cordial relationship in which we have pretty much agreed to disagree on political issues.

[Beausoleil]

21. I thought we already had a cordial relationship and had agreed to disagree.

That's what is so shocking to me.

I guess that maybe he's so convinced he's right about everything that he just can't see that anyone could disagree. He just doesn't know how offensive it is. And I know he's not trying to start a confrontation.

What you say makes a lot of sense.

[mzteris]

17. when's the last time

he had a good physical? coupled with a mental health exam?

It's possible he's suffering from some type of onset of dementia or depression or side-effect from some meds.

[Beausoleil]

19. I hear he's got good socialized medicine

Seriously though, I mentioned my concerns about this very thing to my wife last night.

I think he gets regular physical exams, mental-health - I don't know. I didn't think about the side-effect of medication angle.

[hedgehog]

38. +1

Good luck to you and your family, I hope it's nothing too bad.

[seemunkee]

20. I would run it through a shredder and mail it back

but that's me.

[Beausoleil]

23. Believe me, that's under consideration.

But it's not worth the paper it's printed on in the first place. And he sent it UPS.

[Kali]

26. Wow that is alot of writing and represents a fair amount of time working on the project.

Sad though, that no real understanding came of it. Maybe you could complement him on the work involved and hint around that it might be improved by actually researching (reading) what the opposition has published as well. His work would be more thorough that way. (of course the real motivation would be to engender some new thinking)

My father can be a real dick personally but at least our socio-political views are in sync.

[Beausoleil]

29. Hell, I'd appreciate it if he researched what HE wrote

rather than just taking Rush's word for everything.

But he did say that nothing will change his mind.

[skygazer]

30. My father used to forward me right-wing emails

I finally told him - politely - that I'd be glad to debate politics with him but that he had to tell me what HE thought and believed and not just pass on someone else's words. Interestingly, on the few occasions that we did discuss anything on that basis, we were a lot closer to agreement than I ever thought we might be.

I'm not sure what it is - my dad is not stupid and he's not lazy but there seems to be this sort of blind acceptance of what others say that I find really disturbing and it's characteristic of the right. It's the same sort of mindset that recoils at the idea of questioning authority.

[Kali]

31. I think that may be a human condidtion -

there are plenty on the left that accept without questioning too. It can be painful when it is someone you care about and WANT to respect. I have a cousin who is so good at what he does and who I would do just about anything for, but he is such and idiot about some things - especially politics.

[trof]

33. Well, you could print this out and send it to him:

"Why Conservatives Are Always Wrong"
http://conservativesarealwayswrong.googlepages.com/

And tell him he doesn't need to reply and can just discard it if he wants to.
Of course this doesn't address the basic psychosis.

BTW, it's a long, but very fascinating, read.

[Kali]

40. hey trof,

I had to come back to this thread and thank the person who posted that link. That was a fabulous and encouraging essay. THANKYOU!

Who is the author? Do you know anything about him?

[trof]

42. Never heard of him. Link was in an OP here.

[lildreamer316]

41. Love that. n/t

[abq e streeter]

35. ultimately , since only you know the entire dynamics of the relationship with him

I feel sort of presumptuous even giving my opinion, but since you wanted input from others here.....I think that maybe I'd be compassionate but in a standing up for your beliefs kind of way. Something like telling him how terribly sad it makes you feel to realize a good decent man like him could fall for or embrace such grotesque lies and intolerance and hatred, and that you're there for him if he ever wants to unburden himself of the inner turmoil that's driven him to this. And that you are willing, if he is open to it, to rationally and logically point out the lies, flawed logic etc in his opinions, and that you're open to his rebuttals but that he has to provide "proof" ( which it sounds like he most definitely isn't open to, but it forces him to be the one that is basically saying "I can't defend my positions"). Again, awfully easy for me to say all this; do what you think you need to ( including doing nothing at all if that's what you decide). It amazes me to see all these DUers that have right wing family members to deal with. Sad....at least, as dysfunctional as much of my family is, there ain't a single republican till you get to some 4th or 5th cousins . And my 91 year old WW2 vet father and I discuss politics almost daily, and he refers to Bush/Cheney et al as criminals and fascists etc........ Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

36. Expressing that you're offended and disappointed seems like enough...

Unless you want to invite him over to really discuss each item line by line.

I doubt he'd go for that, though...Sounds like he'd rather swallow the Kool-Ade than discuss things rationally. Sad.

:hug::hug::hug:

[bluedigger]

37. Well, if it were my dad...

I'd edit it for grammar and shop it to a conservative publisher. If you can sell it, take your commission as his agent, and enjoy the bucks, knowing you just suckered the RW media.

[Kali]

39. ah - clever

:thumbsup:

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. "OMG, Dad, that is the most hilarious parodies of the inability of the rightwing to think

and of the garbage they spew that I've ever read! You have every bit of their illiterate sentence structure, their truly otherworldly illogic, every hypocritical two-faced speaking-out-both-sides-of-their-mouths assholery, and totally nailed their utter lack of understanding of the scriptures and teachings of Jesus. Seriously, dad, I never knew you were this intelligent and insightful that you could write parody this perfect. I mean, this truly reads like it was written by one of those evil, Jesus-hating treasonous life-denying criminal shitbags. Bravo!"

[dembotoz]

44. use the pages to wrap family gifts

recycle
recycle
recycle

[Turbineguy]

45. Suggest that he publish it.

Wingnuts seem to be willing to pay a packet for that shit (look at what Limbaugh earns).

Then suggest he take up some dangerous sport for fun and soon you'll inherit!:evilgrin: