You know, Italian opera just isn't interesting

[Rabrrrrrr]

Yeah, yeah, I know, we have that whole "Italians PERFECTED opera" meme, but you know what? It's wrong. Italians, like Verdi et. al., were great at writing the equivalent of Brittney Cpears and Clay Aiken stupidity way back in the day, though I will say that Verdi et. al. at least have musicial skill and ability. Maybe it would be better to compare Verdi with Michael Jackson or Madonna, who, though I don't totally like their music, I appreciate and applaud them as at least true musicians trying to work in a very limited, boring genre in which the average listener considers reading or self-improvement as communist, unchristian, unamerican, or totally non-understandable or all four.

I've been listening to a Verdi opera for almost 2 hours or more now (the opera "Oveldo" or something like that), and while it's not bad enough to turn it off, the truth is, it isn't good enough to save, either, even though it's an offical broadcast.

There are countless other musicians who are doing mterial that's actually intersting, challenging, and worth consideration.

[NYC]

1. Several of Verdi's operas were political.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Yeah, whatever

Musically, which is what I should have said, they just aren't interesting. Not all of them, natch, butmost.

It's really the Germans/Austrians/Tuetonics, like Mozart, Wagner et. al., who perfected the form and have given it substance and importance.

[LuLu550]

13. Wagner????

Mein god! I thought I would kill myself when I tired to watch the Ring Cycle!

[Mick Knox]

2. blah ..

[jpgray]

4. Some opera takes a while to 'crack'

You can probably find some goodness in there that appeals to you and discard the rest. They're famous for a reason. :)

The more one looks for newer and more enjoyable sounds, the amount of what one finds that is actually pleasurable diminishes more and more. That's true of a lot of things.

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Try Rossini...

the Babyface of his day.

Or any of the 20,000 or so French operas sitting on file in some Paris conservatory.

[REP]

6. To You, Perhaps

I won't force you to listen to Rigoletto if you don't force me to listern to any of the contemporary 'musicians' you list (though how you can compare bel canto to today's bellowing and mooing escapes me!)

[joeybee12]

7. Compare Verdi to Madonna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on, she's about as talentless as they come! Shame on you!

[spinbaby]

8. The trick to Italian opera...

...is to listen to the words and imagine what they must be singing. For instance, in the Marriage of Figaro, there's a bit that sounds like:

"Surrender your Cheetos!"

"No, they are too cheesy!"

[ChoralScholar]

9. A lot of Verdi and Puccini

have a little more in store for learned musicians. If you really get into it and analyze/listen from a historical standpoint, these guys were doing some innovative things with harmony and libretto that was very foreign to the Italian set of the time.

Compare it to Michael Jackson's 'Thriller'. Nowadays, compared to the technology we have today, that video is kind of 'yeah, so what?'
But, man... wasn't it great for 1984? Very groundbreaking stuff.

But, that being said, there are some very well accepted singers that are not worth listening to in the opera world. And if Rigoletto or La Boheme are not done with great vocalists, I'd just as soon turn it off myself.

[SOteric]

10. *Gasp!*

Blasphemer!

[slinkerwink]

11. I loved Italian opera when I was seven years old....

My hearing aids were pretty crappy, and I had just gotten the cochlear implant. I loved watching Italian opera on PBS because it was subtitled, and it helped me know what Pavarotti was singing. Haha, my mom likes to tell me that I used to imitate the opera singers at that age.

[radwriter0555]

12. LOL BE critical, it's VERDI! please! that's like saying ALL rock n roll is

wretched based on the musical stylings of that nasty clay aikens.

The composers of opera are as varied as musicians of today, but to demean an entire genre based on ONE mediocre composer really isn't fair!

Try some Puccini, you'll change your mind..... TOSCA baby, TOSCA.....

[Cheswick2.0]

15. Though Verdi is the greatest Opera composer...Tosca is the greatest Opera

I love that Opera and damn Puccini for writing nothing for me to sing. My absolute favorite Tenor Aria is E lucevan le stelle.

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. No no no no no

I'm talking about Italian oepra in general, whoever the composer, though as I just posted below this one, that does NOT include Puccini, for whom I have untold respect. Love his operas. Also his mass. Sad that the mass is performed almost not at all, very beautiful, and fun to sing.

And probably I should have clarified and said "traditional Italian opera". I imagine that there might be some modern Italian composers doing challenging, interesting stuff.

And I especially love Tosca.

[Cheswick2.0]

14. Verdi is the single greatest Opera composer ever!!!!

Because he knew how to write for my voice. :7
What is Opera without a great contralto crazy woman role?

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. Okay then, you've convinced me!

I love Verdi now!

Well, not entirely... though I don't dismiss that the Italian opera composers wrote music that must be a blast to sing, and I do admit that I find enjoyment in attending Italian operas. I only do it rarely because one every few years is enough.

The music just isn't compelling to me. Too light, kind of like a musical, sort of airy and unserious, even in the midst of very serious stories. Mozart is also kind of light and airy, but somehow manages to bring a level of gravity to the music itself.

Probably something that's much more fun to perform than to listen to, like Carmina Burana - I much prefer to sing it than to go to a performance.

But I DO love Puccini! He kind of sits off to the side in the ouevre of Italian composers - an interesting mix of Italian fluffery with northern european seriousness, and I happily listen to his operas (have seen La Boheme probably three times, maybe four at the Met, as well as a number of others).

Rabrrrrrr fully endorses the inclusion of contralto crazy women roles in operas. legislation pending. :-)

[stopbush]

18. I couldn't disagree more.

The strength of Italian opera composers is that they trusted in the power and expressiveness of the human voice to bring off their music. The truth is that there are very, very few singers who have the goods to effectively show most Italian opera in its best light. When a singer is presented with a diatonic melody supported by not much more than an "oompah," he is carrying the weight of the show. He may need to change vocal colours within a phrase...if not within a single note! The possibilities of exploiting the inherent nuances written into a score are limited only by the singer's imagination and, ultimately, his technique.

To me, it's the same comparison that one can make between the vocal works of Bach vs Handel. Bach - who was working with church singers, many of them mono-chromatic boys - faced limitations in the expressive capabilities of his singers. He famously complained about the shortcomings of his singers to a city council. Faced with this dilemma, he used just about every instrument he could get his hands on to add expressive elements to his works. Listen to the great Passions where the instrumental parts weave a tapestry of expression around a fairly straight-laced vocal line. Bach didn't always have top-flight voices, so he trusted the instruments.

Handel, on the other hand, rarely employed an orchestra beyond the standard string-based Baroque norm. You won't see a lot of wind colour in Handel past the typical oboes & bassoons reinforcing the string lines. Handel had access to the greatest opera singers of his day and fully expected them to work the vocal lines he wrote to their full expressive potential.

So, when you speak of Italian opera being "uninteresting," I think you're looking for the wrong things. Sure, Wagner has some incredibly interesting and compelling music happening almost all the time, but the fact is that you can get by in Wagner with less-than-great voices simply because there's less pressure on the vocalist to carry the show. With Italian opera, the singers are front-and-center. Die Walküre can survive a mediocre Siegmund, Sieglinde or Brünnhilde. The same can't be said of a mediocre Norma in the title role.

Woe to the singer who is not up to the challenges presented in Italian opera!