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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:04 PM
Original message
Does this mean I'm an unreasonable person?
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:05 PM by redqueen
So Mr. Independent Mormon Guy came up for a chat about politics and whatnot, and he was saying about how the meida making a big deal about Obama's smoking habits is fair because it's a big issue. I flat out said no it isn't and he said something like 'well you have to admit that since he's put such a blah blah blah on healthcare that makes it a big issue' and I said no I don't have to, and I do not agree.

Is that unreasonable? I think it's perfectly reasonable. I have to be stern with him because he uses the most bullshit 'arguments' ever.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. As a Mormon, he's coming from a very biased position regarding tobacco.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:10 PM by Rabrrrrrr
I think he's partly right - Obama is a big pusher on the healthcare thing, and smoking is cleary bad for health, so there's a bit of an issue there. On the other hand, Obama is trying to quit, so there it is. And on the other other hand, Obama probably does a lot of other things that aren't purely healthy, like any of us - red meat, butter, driving, flying, walking up and down stairs, ice cream, fried foods, and so on.

We can't be purists about it.

And you can't argue with a Mormon about it, either.

And, quite honestly, most of our presidents have smoked. And given the choice between and Obama whose only vice appears to be smoking or a Bush who's many vices include illegally invading other countries, lying to get us to go to war, committing war crimes, and doing acts of treason, I'll take Obama's smoking any day.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not to mention Bush's drinking and drug problems...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes, that's where I went too... what about trans fats?
Is he taking vitamin supplements? Eating whole grains? Does he eat fried foods?

I think it's just monstrously silly.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I hear tell that Obama's cigarettes are all deep-fried.
:thumbsdown:
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not unreasonable IMHO...
but then again, I'm kinda nutters myself :P
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. If Obama feels the need for a cigarette, I say go for it
I want him a un-stressed and happy as humanely possible, and if the craving hits once in a rare while, it's not the worst thing her could do.

We were laughing about this yesterday, envisioning Obama on a bad day, digging through the cabinets in the Oval Office, tossing out Bush's bags of week, bags of coke, containers of meth, and bottles of rum and scotch into the trash, muttering "damnit, I KNOW that moron had to have left some cigs in here somewhere...."
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm a Mormon, and I don't think Obama's smoking is a big deal at all.
After all, Cheney has a man-sized safe, and Jeff Gannon was a frequent visitor to the White House, so it's not like the current administration has been without a fair share of "bad" habits.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. you were kinda rude. nt.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yes.
Well he must like it. He knows I can't hardly discuss these things like a normal person. I get too agitated. The world is just too fucking crazy to even begin to pretend it's not.

He went from there to sitting on the couch here and discussing the big three automakers asking for a handout. So really he must like the rudeness.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Is this a SO?
because maybe he is hoping for make up sex? :P
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Nooooo...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:49 PM by redqueen
just a co-worker.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. he likes you. nt.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. If only an unmarried guy whom I liked in return
enjoyed me fussing at and being irate with him.

:P
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. he is a mormon you know. nt
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. The simply fact is a person can recognize a habit is bad even if he has it.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:45 PM by Deep13
The fact that Obama smokes does not make him pro-smoking or anti-health. He knows it's a bad habit and is not holding others to a higher standard than he holds himself. Even if he were a hypocrit, a person can be one and still accurately observe the faults of others. Even if Obama is part of the problem, he is still right in saying the health care system does not work.

So no, pointing out the fallacy of his agrument is not unreasonable.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Thank you!
That's how I see it anyway... what does one have to do with the other? It's nonsense! Nonsense, I say!
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. obama is advocating for affordable healthcare not a "macrobiotic - vegan -10hr/week aerobic exercise
no tobacco- no alcohol- no coffee-organic food only" platform

deliberate conflagration of issues
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. To hear some people talk about it you would think he was
(were? I keep second guessing my grammar lately). But I agree absolutely with your analysis.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. How is this not blindingly obvious?
How is this 'issue' and the 'tough questioning' being taken seriously by anyone? How?

:banghead:
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Oh if only...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:58 PM by Chan790
you forgot a 25 hour workweek where everybody is salary and gets 4 weeks vacation, natural fiber clothing and meditation for stress-reduction. (those are all shown to have a net-positive effect on health.)

That's a platform I could get behind...well, except the ban on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine.

Actually, the French are much healthier than we are as a nation and they drink, smoke and caffeinate like there's no tomorrow...and they use real butter and whole milk...the horror!
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. thats a platform i could get behind too. plus if i worked only 25 hours a week
i wouldnt need coffee or alcohol.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. Nope. It's everything else which does



:hide:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I expected that sooner or later.
Why are you hiding? I'm a nice person!

:rofl:

See? I'm laughing.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Just doing my duty
:patriot:
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. I was in the Mormon's alter-cult, the Jehovah's Witnesses
for much of my life, and they take a similar stance (disfellowshipping...they may even be harsher wrt smoking than the Mormons) on smoking.

Embarrassingly, your friends comments sound like some of the dumbass stuff I used to spout. Since talking politics was also a no-no in that religion, I would have liked that Obama's smoking gave me a way to flirt w/ politics while still being holier-than-thou, lol.
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. It breaks down like this.
Economy - big issue.
Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - big issue
Collapsing and incompetently lead auto industry - big issue
Corrupt finance industry - big issue
Over 45 million Americans without health insurance - big issue

President-Elect has an all-but-kicked smoking habit? Just above "there's a pebble in my shoe" on the list of big political issues.
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