AA poll

[curse of greyface]

Poll question: AA poll

Well their seems to be some controversy about AA.

So I figured I would see if it is just one or two people or widespread.

First of all I walked in to AA four and a half years ago.

I lived near Clearwater Fl so if I purposely wanted to join a cult I had choices.

Why did I go?

Partially because I went from a married man with a house and a good job to a guy living in a hotel attached to a titty bar...

And partially because I couldn't lie to myself anymore....

The road has been rocky since then but it has been full of love.

If I hadn't walked in I wouldn't be in a better place today.

The guys I hang with aren't court ordered either. They have been coming on their own some for almost thirty years. They talk about how much it means to their family and their children. They talk about the friends who died cause they couldn't stop drinking.

We are too ornery to be a cult I assure you. We have atheists and bikers and Republicans. And if the national AA org ceased to be tomorrow we would still meet together once a week.

My experience is my own. And I have meet people in the program that simply substitute one addition for another.
And I feel that court ordered AA may not be the best for everybody.

So onto the poll

[sasquatch]

1. Sort of reminds me of the Prop 8 vote

[Why Syzygy]

2. Read for yourself...

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html

[skygazer]

3. My opinion

First of all, there are many, many people who feel AA helped them when they were unable to help themselves. That's a good thing.

There are also many, many people who tried AA and did not succeed in mastering their addictions that way.

I think the most rational explanation for all of this is that 1. people need to be ready to address their addictions (which is why I don't believe court-ordered AA is particularly effective) and 2. people don't always find solutions in the same methods. It seems to me that the people who find AA to be helpful are people who are prepared to pro-actively address their issues and who benefit from the atmosphere.

People who do not find it helpful may not be ready to address those issues OR may need another form of help in order to kick their addictions. There is never only one way.

This is what troubles me about some proponents (certainly not all) of AA - that it is the only way to beat an addiction. I don't believe it is.

Full disclosure - I am a former addict (cocaine and heroin and I had a real problem with alcohol for many years) who succeeded in quitting cold turkey. I don't believe cold turkey is the only way to beat addiction any more than I believe AA is.

[curse of greyface]

4. I'm with you. I have little patience with the "only way types"

I voted the third choice up top.

I am however amused and perplexed by some of the over the top hostility toward the program.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

[Why Syzygy]

5. The first thing they tell people

is to "sit down and shut up", and then they are instructed to get a "sponsor" who will micro-manage every area of their lives until they are able to carry the cult message to other victims. Not very "pro-active".

prepared to pro-actively address their issues

[LanternWaste]

9. For what it's worth...

For what it's worth, *anyone* who can quit heroin (regardless of how) is a bit of a hero in my book.

My dad was a heroin addict, and was on either that or methadone til the end of his days. Not very nice stuff at all...

[skygazer]

21. I am truly thankful I was able to get that monkey off my back

And I will never be ashamed of my addiction because I'm so damned proud of beating it.

[alarimer]

27. My only issue with these programs is the God part.

It seems to be mandatory that you believe in some kind of higher power, even if it is a nebulous concept that you can define as you wish. There seems to be no option for atheists. And of course you have courts ordering people into these programs that require some kind of religious-ish belief Which I think might be a violation of the separation of church and state.

And I am not sure their concept of addiction is based at all on scientifically or medically-accepted concepts, which may be more important than the whole God thing. But I don't really know.

[Inchworm]

6. Down with the Man!

LoL...

I had different drunks at different parties sign my "AA Attendance" sheets.

I attended years later without being ordered though. I found the biker meetings more to my liking. They seemed more frank and real. That's just me though.

It's definatly not a cult though.

:hi:

[Jamastiene]

7. OMG, thank you for adding that option for me!

I know it had to be specifically for me. I used it too. I voted:
"It has always been my dream to live in a hotel attached to a titty bar"

Thank you for letting me vote for living in a hotel attached to a titty bar. That made my day.

I've never been to AA meetings. So, I really don't have any opinion. I'm glad AA helped you though.
:hug:

[KitchenWitch]

8. You just like tits!

:evilgrin:

[Jamastiene]

14. Yep, and I like hotels too.

I always have. I don't know why. Mix tits and hotels and I go wild.

:evilgrin:

[curse of greyface]

12. I have always tried to be inclusive. nt

[jonnyblitz]

10. here is what somebody named Jack Trimpey from

the"positive atheism" site thinks. Don't yell at me,btw, I am just the messenger.


<snip>
For the record, here is our position: Of course AA is a cult! AA is not only a religious cult, it is a radical cult, an evil cult, a widespread cult, and a dangerous cult. AA has become an engine of social decay posing as a noble, altruistic fellowship. Its perverse philosophy of sin-disease and deliverance by faith in a heterogeneous deity contradicts the fundamental values of a free society, but is uniquely appealing to people addicted to substance-pleasure. AA is a cancer on the soul of the nation, producing no pain to the populace as it eats away at the foundation of society. Its victims are its members who become grateful to their captors. AA is causing the problem is says it helps. Its 12-step program suggests nothing on how to quit an addiction except to stop trying, and its members love the cult more than any newcomer. Each cult member shares a vision of a better world resulting from propagating the steps — not from the effects of abstinence upon society. The AA cult has infiltrated our federal and state bureaucracies and now nests in every social institution, setting policies that funnel new members into its craw. It expands for its own sake, and cannot change from within. Therefore, it must be destroyed by forthright public education and expose.
<snip>

http://www.positiveatheism.org/rw/ofcourse.htm

I don't know about it enough to pontificate. I went to a few meetings with a navy friend who was an alcoholic (i don't drink) and found it to be too religious and didn't get into the "sharing" thing, or that slogan chanting thing. I also didn't like the concept of having to surrender to the "higher power" always because i would always be too weak on my own.

[old mark]

11. The courts sentence some folks to go to 12 step meetings -

AA or whatever group does not sentence anyone anywhere. If you are complaining about that, complain to your judge.

mark

[Lincolngirl]

13. I voted no.

I'm in AA. Have a family history, Mom in for 25 years, uncles-3, Dad, no deceased.
If it works for you, great. If you can find help elsewhere, great.
You will not stop till you ar ready.
I'm 5 mos, and used to think my mom was nuts. Now I know she is, but understand her better.
All I know is I cannot drink like a normal person.
I'm grateful for the program, and never thought I'd be in it.

[RetroLounge]

15. Here we go...

:popcorn:

RL

[bigwillq]

16. If it helps people quit drinking and stay sober

then I don't really care what it's called or what it is or what it's not. If it helps, I'm all for it.

[sniffa]

17. I can't believe no one's mentioned the 13th step

:shrug:

[Lincolngirl]

18. Heard stories

Been warned!

[RetroLounge]

20. Sorry, you're not my type...

:hide:

RL

[sniffa]

22. Hey, take it easy

I'm just here for the coffee. (almost out of cliches)

[RetroLounge]

28. Ha!

The coffee is NEVER that good...

:rofl:

RL

[astral]

23. That's the secret step that keeps everyone comin' back

How come this is such a hot topic in the lounge today?

[Roon]

19. AA is great

but like I mentioned in another thread,,I am hard of hearing and cant hear the people talking. So i quit going.

[mwooldri]

24. The AA.

Uk Equivalent to AAA.

[BlueIris]

25. Other: the twelve-step system, in connection with medical and pharmacological support,

including psychotherapy, has been the most effective route to sobriety for most addicts I have met, worked with and lived with.

(I just couldn't answer the question within the ridiculous cult-or-not parameters, sorry. I also couldn't make a joke about addicts or addiction like some of the jackasses in this thread seem comfortable doing.)

[astral]

26. Well, I don't see anything wrong with kidding about it

You either get it or you don't. Many people who have never been in recovery will never get it, but that's totally understandable.

[Initech]

29. AA is great for getting to / from Dallas.

[Withywindle]

30. It's the government forcing that MAKES it into a cult. Otherwise it's not.

I don't get forcing people to go there? Isn't one of the main premises the idea that a person has to be truly ready to make a change?

I don't go to AA but I've researched it because, well, I might someday. YOu never know. Seems to me like a similar kind of small-group dynamics I've encountered in the Pagan community - some meetings are great, some are toxic, most are somewhere in between because they're made up of humans, but if you just overhear too much of the jargon, it does superficially sound kind of nutty. I imagine that once you're inside, it's what you make of it. it's too self-directed to be a cult.