A week from Monday I'm going up to a mountain top and fast, no food or water.

[puerco-bellies]

Every day an elder will come up and check on me to see if I can go on. I am going to pray for a vision, clarity. The closer I get to a pathetic state the better chances of me having a vision. I have had some health problems lately. A month ago I was hospitalized due to problems with my gallbladder so I don't know how much I can take.

This will be my first time "going up the mountain" and I am a little worried. My biggest fear will be the possibility that my spirit animal guide will turn out to be a smurf.. It's tough being a city indian.

[mcctatas]

1. given your love of water activities...

I'd pray it's not one of these....

[puerco-bellies]

2. Oh Crap..

Please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no,
please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no, please no..

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. Well.

:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. My dear puerco-bellies...

Please be careful.

How long would you be up there, ideally?

You're not permitted any food or water?

Without water, well, let's just say that concerns me.

And which mountain will you be on?

:hug:

[puerco-bellies]

6. I will me an Elder in Fresno on the 13th.

We will head east (about 50 miles) to the Haslett Basin near Kings Canyon. Tuesday he will take some of us to various ridges where we will build small lodges using branches we collect there. Every day he will come up and see how we are doing. I am going to try to last the maximum which is 4 days. No food or water is allowed up there but there will be people down below gathering for a Bear Dance that will occur the next weekend so help is near by.

Alison planned to be my support that week but she got a new position she's been trying years to get starting that Tuesday so she can't take the time off. If anyone wants to come down on their own it's cool. It is not a contest. For Bear Dancers or Wingmen you have to fast for a total of four days each season. I know many people that are Sun Dancers and all of them fast without water for four straight days. If they can do it, I think I can do it too, but we will see. I'm hoping to last the four days and be asked to be a wingman.
BTW A wingman is someone who help with the smudging of participants. They are called wingmen because they use hawk wings as fans for the sage smudge/sage mixture.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. That sounds fascinating!

I'm sorry Ali can't go too...

Please do be careful, OK?

I'd be really really upset if anything bad happened to you...

But I hope you get your vision...

Being a wingman sounds way cool too...

:hug:

[puerco-bellies]

8. No worries Miss C-P

I have always wanted to do the natural vision thing. As a young man I did a lot of peyote, and still know many members of the Native American Church that are active in the peyote ceremony movement.

I don't do that kind of thing anymore. Even when I did I felt that my visions were somewhat hollow, and never did find my animal spirit. Hopefully I will be able to do so before I leave this world.

[Lorien]

19. Are you a Native American?

My cousin is an elder with the Chippewa tribe and the vice president of several Native groups, as well as a commissioner of Native affairs. She took me out to a pow wow in the CA desert years ago during the summer. It was 104 degrees and I was almost instantly drenched in sweat. My cousin , her cousin and her roommate (the late actor and activist Floyd Redcrow Westerman) were all sitting with me and NONE of them had a drop of sweat on them! They explained to me that Natives very rarely sweat, which allows them to conserve water effectively in very harsh environments. Most of the circle dancers weren't even sweating, and many were loaded down in elaborate regalia! I'm as white as can be, so being really sweaty only made me feel more conspicuous.

If they can do it, it may be due to a genetic advantage. Please rethink going on your quest without water. It seems more than a little dangerous to me.

[puerco-bellies]

23. I am of Apache and Yaqui ancestry.

Believe me, indians do sweat. I don't sweat as much as some people I know. I have always assumed that I am predisposed to conserving water because of my genes. I know that I have a higher heat tolerance then most people, which I also credit to being from a desert people.

[Lorien]

27. My cousin and her friends have only a small amount of non native

ancestry, so maybe that's why they barely even glisten (she grew up on the rez). I'd still advise against dehydration. Starving yourself will give you visions enough, believe me-and hydrating will flush toxins from your system.

[XemaSab]

5. .

[Haole Girl]

9. Cool. A vision quest!

I hope you find your guiding spirit... or it finds you... and you stay safe and well.

:hug:

[puerco-bellies]

11. Thanks KC2

I'm taking a flute that was given to me last year. I have not seriously tried to play it, but from the moment I decided to go up I have been obsessed with bringing it with me. I have a feeling it may play a part.

[KitchenWitch]

10. I am sending you good vibes for your vision quest.

May you find your spirit animal guide and stay healthy.

:hug:

[puerco-bellies]

12. Thanks KW

I would like to find my guide, even if it costs me a little..

:hug:

[LeftyMom]

13. That sounds like a not-so-good idea.

I mean, unless I'm misreading this, you just got out of the hospital and you're going to the middle of nowhere to get so dehydrated you hallucinate, and there won't even be anybody checking on you frequently enough to have a good chance of getting you to the ER on time if you collapse or worse. Though considering the area even if somebody was standing straight over you, that'd be dicey.

I guess I'm being a bad liberal for not wearing my multi-cultural tolerance hat instead of my evil rationalist thinking cap here, but that just sounds all kinds of unwise.

[puerco-bellies]

14. Well I'm not asking my doctor to sign off on this.

The guy who will be watching me has done this for many if not hundreds of people. There are many older indians with serious health issues that still under go rituals. I don't think I have the fortitude to last long enough to endanger myself, after all my wife jokingly refers to me as a "feather-bed" indian (I am the only indian she has ever met that insists on 400 thread count or better sheets).

My health problems are brought on by fatty foods, not a problem lately, and certainly not going to be a problem up there.. My wife worries about my health more then any one including my own mom. Ali is being supportive and also thinks I can do this. Don't worry about me, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[applegrove]

15. Bring some water. Climbing a mountain will require the replenishment of fluids. I know.

I climbed a mountain with a friend and all we had was a bottle of wine. I would have traded my soul (not really) for some water at that point. You'll need it if it is quite a hike.

[puerco-bellies]

25. No water or food is allowed once we head up the mountain

We are not going "peak-bagging". We are going to be sequestered on sections of ridge tops to be alone with our prayers and thoughts. Fasting is the key here. The tradition of no food or water is part and parcel to a vision quest. The toll that fasting takes on the body puts you closer to the spirit world, thus more open to messages, and messengers.

[applegrove]

26. I hope you experience what you feel you need to experience.

[puerco-bellies]

31. Thanks ag

I need to keep any expectations out of my head so I can be open to what ever does come to me.

[av8rdave]

16. I hope it goes well for you

It's awesome that you're trying it. I am woefully ignorant, but have always wanted to know how one feels during/after an experience like that. At the very least, I would think it would be a powerful mental cleansing.

I'll be anxious to hear how it works out.

Best wishes!

[puerco-bellies]

28. Of course I'll post shortly after coming down from the mountain.

Hopefully I'll last past that day's dinner bell.. I do think I can hang for at least two days but the hunger isn't what gets to most people, it's the thirst. I'm taking a flute up there to help me focus on my surroundings, that will dry me out quicker so even two days might be a stretch.

[Lorien]

17. The fasting sounds fine. Dehydration is a very bad idea though

I've done a number of fasts over the years. Water is CRITICAL when fasting. Dehydration kills far faster than starvation, and your kidneys will suffer for it if it doesn't kill you.

[puerco-bellies]

32. Dehydration is what breaks most people doing this.

The people I know that have done this, if they break before the 4 days, they break because of thirst. A healthy person can easily survive three days with no water without damaging the kidneys. I will try to get past the second day. If I have an epithany I will come down lickety split.

[DS1]

18. Couldn't you accomplish the same thing in a bowling alley?

[puerco-bellies]

33. The proximity of those delicious caucasians would be too tempting.

Plus, what about shabbas? I'm saying, I see what you're getting at, Dude, he kept the money. My point is, here we are, it's shabbas, the sabbath, which I'm allowed to break only if it's a matter of life or death..

[DS1]

38. Will you come off it, Walter? You're not even fucking Jewish, man.

:thumbsup:

[Aristus]

20. God be with you on your vision quest, buddy.

All the best... :thumbsup::pals:

[puerco-bellies]

34. Thanks man

Things will go as well as they should.

[Deep13]

21. No food sounds uncomfortable. No water is just plain dangerous.

You don't need to prove that you're an Indian by flirting with death, you known. And a hallucinagenic ritual is not going to tell you anything.

[puerco-bellies]

37. Surprisingly enough I'm not out to prove anything.

Vision quests are an integral part of the Native spirituality. It is something that I have planned to do for some years, and should have done years ago. I know scores of indigenous brothers and sisters that feel that insights gained from these types of ceremonies can not be gained through any other means.. Remember, this is a religious, not a logical, act.

I will be safe. I love and value my family, and my life.

[lost-in-nj]

22. Good Luck P-B

and I hope your spirit guide is as strong and kind as you are.....
oh and not blue!!!!! but then again maybe you were thinking blue as a kind of premonition.....
your love of doing things in the water might lead you to a blue whale....
not a smurf :)


take care of yourself


:hi:

lost

[puerco-bellies]

39. Hi lost.

Blue Whale, that's a comforting thought..
No worries, I'll be fine.

:hi:

[Gormy Cuss]

24. Best wishes on your vision quest.

It may take me more than a week to stop chuckling at the idea of a smurf as your spirit animal,though.:-)

[puerco-bellies]

40. I that does come to pass I will keep it to myself.

Peace.

[fizzgig]

29. good luck on your journey

i hope you find the clarity you seek

[puerco-bellies]

41. Thank you kagemime

I think that only good will come of this..

[dembotoz]

30. may you find what you are searching for

you are doing what most of us only read about.
Take care and come back strong.
And tell us what you find out.

[puerco-bellies]

42. I will definitely write about what I experience.

I will have to ask my medicine man if I can keep a journal up there. I don't even know if I can bring my flute yet. I still got a week before I get to the site. I don't actually go up the hill until Tuesday the 14th. The bad thing is that I going to miss my daughter's birthday. I have talked to her, and I think she is ok with it.

[SeattleGirl]

35. A smurf?

:rofl:

Seriously, though, take care. I'm glad you will have people checking on you.

[puerco-bellies]

43. You have no idea what kinds of goofy shit rolls around my head..

I never know how it gets expressed.. I will have an experienced elder looking after me. He will be aware of my situation, and knows what to do.

[Dora]

36. Just had a gallbladder attack of my own.

Safe fasting to you. The wisdom will come. Doesn't it always?

I know I've had to use my own recent experience to evaluate how I handle stress and examine how I contribute to my own health or illness. My diet has been very good for a few years now, so I knew the attack wasn't specifically diet related. I am certain it was caused by emotional stress and my inability to process my experiences in a healthy way. I'm glad you're under the care of an MD, but I'm even happier to see that you're looking at the bigger picture of your spiritual health.

[puerco-bellies]

44. I did not know that stress can factor in gallbladder issues.

I will be more aware of my emotional state as it relates to my physical self.