my friend asked me last night why she isn't 'over' losing her baby 3 months ago. it broke my heart

[fizzgig]

my friend was nearly half way through her pregnancy when she lost the baby three months ago. she told me last night it was a live birth (i had thought the baby was stillborn), that she can still feel him being born, that she still dreams about it. she was so sick during her pregnancy, the original doctor didn't do an ultrasound after the baby was born and she walked around with more than a pound of tissue in her uterus for nearly three weeks. she had to have two dncs and spent three days in the hospital after the second one because she had such a terrible infection. she got a letter from the insurance company earlier this week denying coverage for the hospital stay and telling her she's responsible for the $61,000 bill.

her body has been through so much and her hormones are still out of whack. she's suffered from depression and anxiety for years, but now she's also dealing with postpartum depression and her thyroid is now overactive.

i stayed with her last night and cuddled with her while she cried. she wasn't ready to talk about it for a number of weeks after the baby died and her husband was. now she's ready to talk and he doesn't want to.

she asked me last night why she hasn't 'gotten over it' yet and when she will. i told her that i have no idea what kind of pain she is in and probably can't even imagine it, but it's not something you just 'get over' and it is likely there will always be some of that hurt there.

no one is telling her that it is ok that she is feeling the way that she is. that it's ok that she's angry and sad and hurt (although i know none of those words do her feelings justice). no one is telling her that it is ok to cry and rage and scream. and she is blaming herself for the baby's death because she wasn't as excited about the pregnancy as she thought she should be (it was not a planned pregnancy). she told me she feels like she let everyone down.

she's seeing a grief counselor but doesn't like her and wants to quit. i'm encouraging her to find a new counselor. i will listen to her and give her the best feedback i can, but i don't know that i can give her everything she needs in that area.

i worry about her, i worry about her husband and i worry about their marriage. i know i am not them, that i could not fathom what they've gone through and that i can't fix or change anything, but i want them to be ok. i am encouraging her as much as i can to stay with the counseling, to get treatment for the postpartum (another thing i know nothing about) and i'm loving her as best i can.

i don't know that i'm writing this for any other reason than i needed to get it out, but if anyone has any book or web site suggestions that i might be able to pass along, it would be appreciated.

[Redstone]

1. You're a damn good friend. You did VERY well. And no, three months is NOT

long enough, for most people, to "get over" that kind of trauma.

Redstone

[fizzgig]

3. thanks, redstone

it is trauma but, at least based on my observations, some are not acknowledging it as such

[supernova]

2. It's a death in the family

the same as losing a parent or sibling, and it can take years to get some perspective on that kind of grief.

You are a terrific friend, Kagehime. You did the right thing by telling her to find another more compatible counselor.

It's a shame that she and her hubby are out of sync on their grief schedules. She was sick herself for a while and now that her body has healed somewhat the emotional whallop is hitting her. They need each others' support right now.

[fizzgig]

4. she takes his reluctance to talk as a sign that he's past it already

and that's making her feel worse for not being 'over it.' i want to talk to him about it, but i don't know if that would be going too far

[Midlodemocrat]

12. I would venture that she is wrong. He isn't over it, either.

He is trying to be strong for her. It's not uncommon for couples who lose a baby to grieve very, very differently and at different periods and depths.

[fizzgig]

15. he's not over it

i can see that and i told her.

[sarge43]

5. My mother lost a daughter soon after her birth.

Fifty years later mom would still cry about it. Wounds will heal, but the scar and the ache doesn't always go away and they sure don't in a few months.

You're doing the best thing for her by just listening. You can't give her everything; no one person can. Be her kind, honest friend and keep up the encouragement, especially the counseling and treatment.

And bless you. Everyone should have a friend like you.

[fizzgig]

16. thank you

i'm doing what i can, but i know she needs more than that

[hedgehog]

6. From the dates you gave, the baby's due date is right about now.

No wonder your friend is feeling terrible! Let her know you care, and keep encouraging her to get good professional help for both mind and body.


BTW - she needs to get someone working on that hospital bill. The insurance should cover it, but I'm thinking the hospital is at fault for failing to see to it she had the ultrasound!

[fizzgig]

17. she's going to appeal the decision

that was one more bit of bullshit she did not need right now

[fight4my3sons]

7. Here is a site that may help

http://www.october15th.com/

You are being a great friend. If her husband does not want to talk, be there for her. She needs to get this out. I still have difficulty with my losses and I have had three children since. You just don't get over it. I also had to have 2 d&c's for one of my miscarriages because of tissue that did not come out during the first procedure (according to the doctor my cervix did not open all the way during the first operation). It was horrible and it just does not leave your mind. I think you are right about her needing another grief counselor. There is no way that the one she is going to now is going to help her if she doesn't like her.

:hug: :hug: for you and your friend.

[fizzgig]

18. thank you

:hug:

[SeattleGirl]

8. This brought tears to my eyes.

Like you, I cannot fathom the depth of your friend's pain, but I do think you are doing your very best for her, providing a shoulder, an ear, comfort, and support.

I think a new counselor would be a good idea for your friend, and also a support group like the October 15th group.

My best to your friend as she struggles with her loss, and hugs to you for being such a wonderful friend to her.

:grouphug:

[fizzgig]

19. thank you

:hug:

[kath]

9. There are several national support groups for such situations

Compassionate Friends: http://www.compassionatefriends.org/Brochures/stillbirth.htm

IRIS: http://www.irisremembers.org/

She (or you, perhaps) also should ask her OB and/or the hospital social worker about local support groups or local chapters of national organizations. Hospitals often have support groups for pregancy loss and neonatal death. Did the hospital give her any information about such groups or books while she was there? If not, they should have. If so, maybe you can ask your friend to see any pamphlets or info they gave her, and you can help her make the necessary phone calls to get plugged in to a group.

There are also various online support groups, message boards, lists of resources, etc. I Googled miscarriage support and lots of stuff came up. also should try "pregnancy loss" support or other combinations.


It sounds like she's very lucky to have you as a friend.

[fizzgig]

20. i don't know if the hospital gave her any info

but i will call them tomorrow and see what is available. also, thanks for the google suggestions, i was having trouble figuring out what words to search.

[Radio_Lady]

29. Kagehime, you are such a good friend. Please PM me if you want to discuss anything at all.

My friend in Massachusetts lost a daughter to cancer. I remember sitting with her while she cried and cried. A chapter of Compassionate Friends helped her a lot. Books have been written on the subject, and there are also websites.

There was no such support when I went through it.

I have personally experienced the stillbirth of a child -- November 30, 1960.

Links to my story are below:

searching...

[Midlodemocrat]

10. She'll never be 'over it'. It was the death of a child, a dream.

Time will hopefully, dull her pain, but that baby was her child from the moment the stick turned blue.

You're being a wonderful friend. :hug:

[fizzgig]

21. thanks, midlo

i, too, hope it will get better for her with time, but i also know it will never fully heal

:hug:

[Radio_Lady]

27. Midlodemocrat speaks the truth... here's my backstory. I still think about the baby, even though it

was severely deformed (macrocephalic and macerated from the amniotic fluid). That was in 1960.

:hug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x197789#197790

[fizzgig]

28. i am so sorry, radio lady

:hug:

[quakerboy]

11. wow

3 months is not long. I know people who can't get over a 2 date breakup in 3 months. My mom still isn't ready to talk about my brother(same, live birth, didnt make it past 24 hrs). That was a growingly lot of years ago now.

[fizzgig]

22. it's not long at all

and i'm sorry your mom went through the same thing

[quakerboy]

25. Ive always wondered what it would be

like to have a brother. But I am very glad that she took a few years and then brought my sister forth. One couldn't ask for a better sister.

[mnhtnbb]

13. My daughter was stillborn at 22 weeks 19 1/2 years ago and I still cry for her.

Please tell your friend that grieving for a lost baby can take way more than 3 months. Please do
encourage her to find another counselor. Someone also needs to talk to the husband and encourage
him to go to counseling with her. It's not unusual for two people to handle grief differently, but they
need to respect and support each other.

I don't know whether there are any helpful books; I do know there was nothing in 1989 when we lost
our daughter. I ended up reading some books about grief--but there was nothing specific to
having a stillborn baby pre-term.

I also think your friend needs to find a good attorney to help with the completely crappy decision
from the insurance company. She may also want to look into whether she has a lawsuit against
the OB who didn't do a D&C immediately--that smacks of malpractice to me. I certainly had one
immediately after the stillbirth of our daughter.

[fizzgig]

23. i'm tempted to talk to her husband

i'm afraid i'd be overstepping my bounds there, but i agree that someone needs to talk to him.

as far as an attorney, i know they recently hired one, but i don't know what's going on with that right now.

[easttexaslefty]

14. All the advice up thread is really really good

Having you to listen to her is more helpful than you could believe.

[fizzgig]

24. ...

:hug:

[dendrobium]

26. She also needs a lawyer.

She should not be stuck with that kind of hospital bill because of their failure to detect that she needed a D & C. I know she is going through hell emotionally now but she needs to see a good personal injury lawyer. It will not be nice to have this huge debt hanging over her head in addition to this terrible grief.

[Mutley]

30. You're doing everything you can do for her.

Be her friend.

My sister lost a baby in nearly the same situation when she was younger. My niece would be 15 right now if she had lived. My sister now has two wonderful children and she loves them very much, but I know she misses the one she lost. She has her ashes and the ultrasound picture on the mantle, and whenever I see her standing there looking at them, I just go and hug her, and I let her talk about it if she wants to. It's all I can do for her.

[ismnotwasm]

31. That's so sad

I don't know how long it would take me to "get over it". My husband always says there is no statute of limitations on the grieving process, he's actually handed grieving friends that written on a little note.

Fetal cells have been found in the blood stream many years after the birth of a child, they have even been found to divide a bit-- to continue. In other words a child you have born is always a small part of you. I don't think knowing that would be helpful to your friend at this time, but maybe someday it will provide a bit of comfort.

[MrsBrady]

32. ummm....she needs to give herself more time.

i had a miscarriage and i needed...

trauma therapy and grief therapy (look into EMDR therapy)
got on meds
got group and private therapy
and entered a 12 step program (the death of the child brought up things for me that I had never dealt with before)

I had to find my own way. our society poo-poos grief so much.
I took me two years of WORK to pull myself out of the funk I was in.
I had to learn the difference between grief and despair. But it was my journey and no one could do it for me.

Get her into a child loss group, get her to a therapist, get her to a MD, church and whatever...do it all.
Just make sure YOU tell her that she can feel any way she damned well needs to...nobody has the right to tell her what she should be feeling. People (friends and family) can say the meanest things to people who are grieving, usually because the don't want to deal with the other person's pain or that they don't understand the impact of such a loss. I had people tell me to just "get over it". It made me want to hit them.

You never "get over" losing a child, you just have to learn how to live life with that experience.

And make sure YOU get the help you need to help her.

There's all kinds of books on loss and grief. "child loss book" into the browser will pull up all kinds of books available.

good vibes to you and your friend.

[fizzgig]

34. thank you so much for sharing that with me

:hug:

i have told her that everything she feels is ok and that no one else can tell her how to feel. i also, very gently, told her that she should not let what she thinks other people think dictate her feelings.

i will do anything and everything i can to help her, i will go to appointments or group session with her, i will listen to everything she has to say, but you are right that it was your journey, just as it is her journey. i can help her, but i can't do it for her and that is the hardest part for me.

and if i ever hear anyone tell her to 'get over it,' i will rip them a new one.

[sarge43]

36. If you hear anyone tell her that,

let me know. I'll hold the scumbag down while you rip. As someone said about post trauma, you don't "get over it"; you learn how to live with it.

[Danger Mouse]

33. ...

:hug:

[BlueIris]

35. So sad. I hope she finds a good lawyer, a better therapist and a (much) better husband.

I also hope that her grief for the loss of her baby progresses in the natural way, which can never be "easy," I don't think.

At least she has a good friend in you.

[LiberalEsto]

37. Here's a link

http://www.compassionatefriends.org/Brochures/stillbirth.htm


Blessings of healing to your friend

[nuxvomica]

38. Was there a funeral or memorial service?

When my nephew's wife lost her first child, who died at birth, we had a funeral. It was an an incredibly emotional and cathartic experience for everyone. It's important, I think, to have some sort of formal recognition of this loss -- a gathering of people who care about the parents to share their grief. It's sounds like there wasn't one, considering your friend had urgent medical issues for some time afterward but I think a memorial service of some sort might help even now.