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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:13 PM
Original message
Why do people dress like crap nowadays?
Whenever I see old timey pictures the men are all in suits and starched shirts and ties, etc, and the women are decked out in beautiful dresses, etc.

Why do people dress like crap nowadays? Did suits and whatnot used to be relatively as expensive as they are today? I mean sure you can get an ugly made in china suit for a nickel at target, but if you want anything that will withstand an enthusiastic fart you have to spend minimum 300 bucks.

What happened?
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because the stores sell Goodwill rejects
I can't believe the crap in the stores, wrinkled and unfinished.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. but that's what people want.
sadly
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. look what's in the White House
we have a lot of stupid Americans. If it's in the stores it must be hot.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. Is it?
When I inherited, my thrift shop togs were falling into rags. I was too blind to contemplate sewing myself a new wardrobe, so I went to a mall.

What I wanted were natural fibre classics that would last a long time without going out of style.

What I found was a combination of Britney inspired slutwear in all departments from kids to women's plus a scattering of the same knit crap in the same colors and by the same vendors that they sell at Wally's and Target.

I was furious and left empty handed.

Fortunately, some online sellers are still selling natural fibre, classic stuff so I won't be arrested for indecent exposure any time soon. I don't own much but by golly, it breathes and it will last awhile.

The bottom line is that I think there is a market for durable, classic clothing that isn't being met by bricks and mortar retailers, especially with the economy going south and people realizing that sleazy fabrics with glitter all over them don't wear well and are false economy.

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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
55. Buy hemp and if you can find it,
hemp/silk blend! It's gorgeous and wears like iron! My favorite sartorial purchase this year were hemp and cork sandals, which taken care of, will last probably the rest of my years! I'm praying that the hemp movement is gaining steam and we will get our stupid government to allow hemp farming. It's so expensive because of just that reason. Much of it comes from Europe. Why does our government love big business more than U.S.?!
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #55
89. buy bamboo fabric, too
Bamboo fabric has just about 0 environmental impact because bamboo is so easy to grow and has practically no predators, thus no insecticides or extraordinary biological measures have to be taken to grow it.

Contrast to cotton (which I happen to love but won't buy anymore, except secondhand)--cotton requires all kinds of pesticides to grow.


The way they make bamboo fabric, they take what little is left of the water that has been chemically treated and are able to return it to potable water.

I learned all this from a story I did the other day on how retail is changing. There's a revolution going on out there, for sure--a quiet explosion, one might say.



Cher
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #89
188. I haven't seen it yet
but it sounds like it would be pretty too. What excellent ideas are born out of need! We need a quiet explosion to common sense living!
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. Eileen Fisher
http://www.eileenfisher.com/scripts/ecatalogisapi.dll/g...

From reading your post I would bet you would love her clothes.
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. Do they have tall sizes?
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
78. I've only seen
petite and regular sizes. How tall are you if you don't mind me asking?
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #78
177. 5'10" - long torso, long everything, broad shoulders
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #177
181. Yes they do, check out the pants for tall people
The dresses, sweaters, and tops are also long and flowing.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. Me likey!
Thanks for that link. :-)
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. All classic lines and styles that never
go out of style. The fabrics are heavenly.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #79
101. They don't look like "old lady" clothes either!
They look timeless and contemporary too.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #60
97. I recommend Deva Lifewear as well
Most of their clothing is casual, which suits me, since I tend to dress like a gypsy anyway (long skirts, loose tops - it fits the climate here), but they also have some very nice career clothing. It's mostly American made, or Fair Trade stuff, and their fabrics hold up very well.

http://www.devalifewear.com/mm5/
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
195. I find it very difficult to clothes shop.
If you want anything organic and/or fair trade, US made you have very few options. Plus clothes that look worn and tattered is some kind of trend. I'm not going to pay money for a new shirt that looks 10 years old and worn. Its frustrating to have so few options.
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DrRang Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. And most of those beautifully dressed people had a house full of servants to wash & iron.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
179. Not in the 1950s and 1960s they didn't
Even by then, having servants or even an occasional cleaning lady was a mark of affluence.

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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
191. Oh, bullshit. My parents both grew up dirt fucking poor in rural craphole Depression America.
Both of my parents' families, in the 1930s and 1940s, grew up dirt fucking poor - poaching animals to survive, my dad's mom was on food stamps and welfare with 16 kids to feed and take care of - and both families are not only somewhat well documented with photographs, but they also manage - in all those photos, most of which are candid and not formal posed - to be dressed more appropriately and better than the average person today.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. one man's crap is another man's tuxedo
:hi:
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gettng your pic taken was often an event
It was even special if someone in your crowd owned a camera. That's how my mother, born 1917, put it. So they dressed "to the nines" for photos.

Now, with camera phones and throw away cameras, it's just not a big deal when it happens every day.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. not entirely accurate
look at the crowd photos from baseball games. most men had on suits & straw hats. but how many suits did they own? 3? 4?

suits allowed people to do more with less wardrobe. a clean shirt & a different tie, and you were ready to go the next day. i'd wager that people nowadays have 10x as many clothes as the average person a 100 years ago.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Yeah, what would my mother know about it - she just lived back then
:eyes:
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. maybe going to the ball game was a dress-up occasion
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 06:58 PM by maxsolomon
even so, there's a lot of suits in this photo.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/453437813_96454cc836...
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
80. yes
but are they nice? how do you know? all you see is a dark suit. It may be the most tattered, moth eaten thing ever, but they all look the same in b&w photos.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
135. Agreed. Back then, people wore worn, even stained and wrinkled clothing.
It's not like they were going to "dress up" to do manual labor, which is what most people did back then. Of course they dressed up for pictures.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #135
155. They didn't wear suits for manual labor
That's where the term "blue collar" comes from. They wore work shirts and overalls.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #155
167. That's what I was saying. nt
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tchunter Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. damn kids and there new styles!
the old photos may be from when photographs were rare or an occasion. As someone who just bought their first suit, as i just graduated college and have an interview tomorrow, i do love wearing it and looking good and all, but i'd rather just toss on a t-shirt and corduroys and be comfortable.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. well, actually, people dressed like crap back then, too... but having your picture taken
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 06:17 PM by ixion
was a big deal. Photography was high tech, and when people posed for photos they often times donned their Sunday best, as it were.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
124. By the 1920s and 1930s, photography was NOT a special occasion
Cheap black and white cameras were already available. A few years ago my mom (born 1921) put together VOLUMES of photos taken during her lifetime.

Casual clothes were a lot less casual in those days. Remember that Katherine Hepburn was considered odd for wearing pants instead of dresses. The women in my mom's pictures wore dresses when they went CAMPING.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #124
158. Sounds like your folks had a lot more money than many did.
Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 10:55 AM by raccoon
My mother's family were poor. She was born in the 1920's. I remember seeing one photograph of my mother as a teenager, that a boyfriend took of her.

The only other pictures I've ever seen of her childhood and youth were in old school annuals. And I've only seen one of THOSE, though I'm sure others existed.

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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #124
168. Cameras were available, but disposable income wasn't. nt
People also wore the same clothes for days at a time (unless, of course, they had the luxury of owning alot of clothes).
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. the 60s happened.
but, for men, hats are uncomfortable, & ties suck.

that said, you are correct. MEN, PLEASE STOP WEARING SHORTS TO WORK!
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. No
Shorts at work is awesome. As a person who recently left the corporate world to join a non-profit, my only regret is that I didn't do it five years ago.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. if you insist
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 06:31 PM by maxsolomon
then PLEASE just do me this favor: stop wearing PLEATED SHORTS OR PANTS.

the 90's are long gone.

on edit: and leave the socks/sandals combo alone.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Well, to each their own
but I don't do pleats or the birkenstock thing. If someone is comfortable wearing that though, I say who cares, be comfortable.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
169. Yup. That's the main thing, unless you're fashion-conscious.
I would wear really uncomfortable clothes for fashions' sake when I was young. I really don't miss that part of my youth. I looked good but I didn't feel good.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
57. Oh I hate socks and sandals! nt
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
63. It actually started right after WWII
The middle class started to grow, and regular people got more leisure time. Leisurewear (polo shirts, khaki pants, etc.) became popular around this time. Men stopped wearing ties all the time and started wearing more relaxed cut clothes when not on the job or at the office.

JFK started the "hatless" trend when he took his oath of office outside in the DC weather in January of 1960.

Since then clothing has pretty much gotten to be as informal as it can be. Sadly this includes shorts at the office (unless you shave your legs, fellas, don't try this).
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Times change.
We decided that comfort was more important than layers of cloth stitched together in bizarre ways.

I don't mind dressing up if the occasion requires, but who the heck wants to wear a hoop skirt and corset or a tie and tails with a hat all day?
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
90. Thank the gods. n/t
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Starched shirts cost $5.00 -$8.00 to launder these days
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. I have about 1300 photos glass negatives on
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 06:21 PM by shraby
my site at <http://www.2manitowoc.com > if you browse through them you'll see more than one using the photographer's suit coat and the ladies dresses certainly weren't permanent press. The link to the photos is toward the bottom of the main page.
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. There are some great pictures there.
Thanks for sharing.

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pengillian101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. Wow!
Nice link - thanks!
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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. Well, another DUer from Manitowoc. I am no longer there,
having moved to Florida almost 12 years ago, although I was back last month for a couple of days. I had an interesting discussion of the various names what is now Luigi's went by: Mongolian Buffet (very briefly), Stephan's, Sorge's and Art's 151 Club.
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Bettie Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. Very cool
I have a large collection of CDV's (maybe not large, only five or six hundred) and they just delight me when I look through them, seeing people from so long ago!
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Some of us can't stand the confinement and the heat.
I can't imagine wearing a corset, long dress, and all that in a world without air conditioning in the South. You can't get anything done during the summer months because the heat saps your energy.

Back when I was working I started going to work without pantyhose on because I think pantyhose are just plain evil. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter. Gaahhh!

Not to mention ironing and starch.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Pantyhose are infernal contraptions.
Wearing them in the summer is like walking around with your legs and lower torso encased in plastic.

In the winter, they are of absolutely no help against the elements whatsoever.

They also decompose at an alarming rate. As did their precursors, stockings, which I remember being forced to wear in my jr. high years.

Who has the money to replace them all the time anymore?
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
166. Where are silk stockings?
And never ever wear stockings on a plane. An airline stewardess who was in an accident on the plane with fires and death said her stockings melted on her legs.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I dress for comfort.
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DebJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
70. They are bad for 'personal' health, also.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. I dress like crap...

...specifically so people do not think I have money/education and will treat me like a normal human being.


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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Stay Off My Lawn!
You Kids!

Good lord, are you kidding me? Styles change. Amazingly people realized that stomping around in a suits when it's 90 degrees outside pretty much sucks and many businesses realized that comfortable employees are productive employees.

Please don't hit me with your cane.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. And don't get me started on those high heels we females wore.
Heels in the a.m. and then by 3 pm many had slippers on their feet under the desk, but the shoes went on if you had to get up and move around.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I get ya, totally
Trading my "dress" shoes for Sketchers and other sneakers is the best.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Lol i'm 28 :P
Suits are not uncomfortable. I had to wear one to work for my last job. I live in Arizona and it really wasn't bad. If you get some wool/light cotton pants they're more comfortable than jeans.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
81. yes they are
when you could wear a polo shirt and slacks. I just think a suit jacket is idiotic when it's 90 degrees and 50 percent humidity.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
86. The Key Word in Your Response is ......
Arizona.

Come on out to the eastern sea board and try some 80% humidity with your 90 degree weather. You will change your tune in a hurry, me thinks.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #39
91. you're right
Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 07:06 AM by NJCher
Suits are not uncomfortable.

As far back as a decade ago, I had an assignment in an office where everyone dressed up for work. Yech. But I went to Lord & Taylor and bought a whole wardrobe of women's suits and I was amazed at how comfortable they were.

Nevertheless, I don't want to wear them. I can't really explain why, but I just want to wear a looseweave, breathable set of capri pants (the perfect garment, I think) and a natural-fiber T-shirt. I have strong feelings about this. I won't get dressed up for anything. ANYTHING.

And as a person who gardens all summer long, I am guilty of what the OP brings up. Sometimes I go into the hardware store or even the grocery store dressed in my gardening clothes. And they might even have a streak of dirt on them. Usually I put on a clean T for the grocery store but definitely not the hardware store.



Cher
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. Because people also talk like crap, act like crap and
have crap for brains.

I agree with you. I'm 57.
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Lifetimedem Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Exactly !
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. America is probably the most lazily dressed nation I've ever been to
We're almost slovenly anymore.

More worship of the slobs. Same sort of thing that says that stupidity is somehow the ideal.

I'm 28 btw.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
129. That's laughable. (nt)
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
197. I feel that way about how some people write. nt
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
176. Amen and amen.
Can I get an "amen" from the congregation on that? :yourock:
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. I've worn a dress twice in the last five years. I find them uncomfortable.
I dress for comfort and I usually wear things that have pockets because I always have dog and cat treats on me.

As far as photos...photos were much rarer back then. I think a more accurate comparison would be the clothing people wore in pictures back then to the clothing people wear in portraits today.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
126. Not true after the 1920s
Cheap cameras were everywhere by that era
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because no one wants to be mistaken for the craps in business suits
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
40. Everyone used to wear them, or something close to it though right?
Now it's t-shirts and crusty pants/shorts. But it used to be dress shirts and pressed pants no?
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
87. That was back in a more innocent time
When we were naive enough to think the successful earned their success.

We know better now.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #87
93. yes, and
they didn't have the Internet then, so they had nothing better to do than starch their shirts and press their clothes.



Cher
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Having your picture taken used to be a formal occasion.
Those people were dressed up.
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exothermic Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. I "dressed up" frequently when I worked at my professional job but own zero ties or suits
now. I gave them all away 25 years ago! So I guess I dress like crap. It sure is comfortable. :D
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. It would be nice if people dressed as if there would be other people around.

Wearing clothing with rude, or vulgar statements is just impolite. There are children and other people out in public that shouldn't have to see that stuff.

Those days are long dead though.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. I really think that it's because slovenliness has been popularized like ignorance n/t
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. I refuse to dress according to what other people deem "acceptable"...
I dress for utility and comfort. I used to wear cowboy boots and jeans if I wasn't at work because that's how I grew up. Now I'm a shorts and sandals kind of guy because it's easier and cooler and more comfortable. My clothes are clean, I'm clean and if you don't like how I'm dressed then it's your problem.

I personally think that wearing a suit and tie is the height of stupidity and arrogance. It basically says to the world that you don't have to do any manual labor and that you're better than anyone that does.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Exactly!
As a recently reformed "suit" it's incredibly liberating wearing a pair of cargo pants, sneakers and a Hawaiian shirt to the office. As I stand on the subway in well ventilated attire I feel sorry for the "suits" because I know how uncomfortable they are when it's 90 outside.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
54. People used to do manual labor in slacks and shirts
When I was selling cars I had to wear a suit in 110 degree heat and walk on black asphalt 16 hours a day. You stop noticing the heat after a couple of days.

And I'd rather be hot in wool/cotton pants than jeans.

People are just as arrogant about their cowboy hats and ratty t-shirts.
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Not where I come from....
The suits and ties came out for funerals and weddings. I'm talking about real manual labor, working in the fields and stables.

Hey if you want to wear a parka in the summer if you think that's proper then power to ya.
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. photos were rare...
people dressed up for them...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Indeed!
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 06:39 PM by Juniperx
Check out my Irish immigrant G-g-g-Grandfather... he's wearing a suit, but dang! It sure is disheveled! I'm quite sure this was his best clothing too!

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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Bingo....And relatively expensive. Not to be taken lightly. nt
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #37
127. Guys, photos were rare in the 19th century, but not after the 1920s!
:eyes:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #127
130. You keep saying that. What's the basis for your assertion? (nt)
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #130
138. Tons and tons of family photos that my mom put together a few years ago
plus I looked up the Kodak Brownie camera, the standard personal camera for nearly half a century, and it's advertised at $1.00 beginning in 1900.

That would have been like $20 today, so it was affordable for the average middle class family.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #138
139. "average middle class family"
In the 20's?

Was there a middle class in the 20's? Hardly. The middle glass only grew into a sizeable portion of the population after the second world war.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #139
144. The middle class (in the sense of the median income) was working class
My mother's family wasn't rich (schoolteacher, janitor, brewery worker, carpenter were some of the occupations her relatives had), but they had no trouble taking pictures.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #144
146. Anecdotal.
Sorry, but whatever your family's personal circumstances, it's still anecdotal.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #146
147. And so is your assertion that cameras were rare
based on zero actual knowledge and just a vague impression of the past.

One-dollar Brownie cameras for the masses since 1900.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #147
148. One dollar was a HELL of a lot of money in 1900. You know that, right?
As for the zero knowledge and vague blah blah blah... I'm just going to ignore that.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #148
153. I actually went and looked up the inflation conversion factors
Something that costs a dollar today would have typically cost 4 cents in 1900. This means that a dollar in 1900 was like $25 today, so I wasn't that far off.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #153
156. And 100 would get you a new appliance.
You're only proving that only those with good incomes could afford them.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #156
160. Here's a link to actual prices advertised in a 1900 newspaper
http://www.gti.net/mocolib1/prices/1900.html

Here are some more. Note that there were no electrical appliances to speak of and that the washing machine is a handcranked wringer-washer.

http://usa.usembassy.de/etexts/his/e_prices1.htm
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #160
164. It's classism.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #127
161. See my post # 158.

Depended on the family's socioeconomic status.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
36. Because suits and ties are for chumps?
:shrug:
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
42. I live in Florida
T-shirts and shorts are a must. Living in the south demands a more ventilated style of dress. Shorts do not look bad if your legs are well tanned like mine. Some of these tourists who have not worn shorts since last year look ridiculous.


Those people in those old photos did not bathe everyday. There was no such thing as deodorant. It took several layers to hold in the stench.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
44. Dressing nicely has always been a "status" thing.
If you saw folks in photographs, posed and all nicely dressed, those were the upper class folks. Lower class folks could not afford a photographer and the middle class rarely could afford one.

What the person is wearing doesn't make the person. Book by cover and all that.

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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Nope, even when you look at just urban scenes people are dressed 10 times nicer
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 07:00 PM by Indenturedebtor
Than I am sitting here writing this post.

I don't want to look nice in public because I don't want to stand out from the slobs unless I'm doing something work like.

You wanna feel wierd? Go through a drive through in a suit some time. You'll get some looks.

Edited to add - People in Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia dress more nicely in the cities than we do here. They don't worship slovenliness. Matter of fact there are public advisories for tourists telling them to shower and wash their clothes so that the locals don't laugh at them :rofl:

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pengillian101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
50. Why do people dress like crap nowadays?
Maybe we are just too fat and need elastic waists?

Maybe we like to be comfortable these days and not wear long underwear year-round?

Take your pick.
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Bettie Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. Having done research and historical reenactments
I can tell you that the women's beautiful dresses usually required torturous undergarments and/or many layers to make them look the way they did. There was also the ironing and starching to keep it all together.

Men's clothing was easier to wear, but still much more formal than our society is today.

The fact is, few people want to go around in a suit and tie on a daily basis.

I'm a mom and I dress for comfort and ease of movement for when I chase my kids around.

I wear dresses when we go somewhere special, but I make sure they're long enough that I don't have to deal with the torture devices that are pantyhose and high heeled shoes! My husband wears chinos and a nice shirt to work, but hasn't had occasion to have his suit out in several years.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I've nothing against modern fashions, but man go anywhere outside of the major cities
And people just look like complete and total shit. Some of them spend money to look like shit. Like I was saying upthread, we are one of the most slovenly countries I've been to.

Euros that have been to the states and other countries wanna back me up here?

I swear it's like we worship the slob.
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Bettie Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. So, in your "perfect world" (and we all have one)....
what would people wear?

Would every man wear a suit and tie every day, with a fedora or bowler perched atop his head?

Would women be in restrictive undergarments to make their shapes conform to the pretty dresses that they would all wear?

I guess I don't understand exactly what you'd like to see if you could dress the world.

People can look nice in casual clothing and people can look awful in suits/dresses. It all depends on the situation and what we've been doing that day. Frankly, after a day in the horse pasture, I look pretty damned awful, but sometimes, I still need to stop at the grocery store to pick up some milk, so they see me in less than my best light.

On the other hand, when I'm ready to go "out" somewhere nice or even nice-ish, I wear clothing that is appropriate to the situation.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #53
88. Ah, I see, it's just us damn hayseeds
:eyes:
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #53
140. I live outside a major city
Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 10:07 AM by mutley_r_us
and I don't dress like shit. Neither do most of the year-rounders here. Damned if I'm ever wearing a corset and many-layered dress even in the winter. It'll be a cold day in hell before I torture my feet with shoes like that. TBH, I'm surprised the DU feminists haven't come out to rake you through the coals for even remotely suggesting that women should be made to dress that way again.

Anyway, I've lived in a major city, and unless you were in the business district on a Wednesday afternoon, most of the people were dressed far more casually than in the area where I live now. In fact, I was far more likely to see dirty and ragged clothing in the city than I am here. Unless you count the farmers and painters and construction workers. I suppose they should be wearing a suit and tie, too. :eyes:



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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
58. If it makes you feel better,
I just spent a lot of money investing in a suit (job interview tomorrow.)

I actually took the trouble to do it right - my body's sized and shaped oddly enough that off-the-rack suitcoats and such don't really fit right, so I went to a Men's Wearhouse and had it tailored.

Looks pretty sharp, and we're talking about nicer fabrics - real wool, cotton with a decently high thread count, etc.

I'm normally a t-shirt and shorts guy, but sometimes it's fun to dress up...
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TexasLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
61. I got too Mamma...
I don't look like a million bucks, and probably dress accordingly. I have had ONE pedicure in my life, my oldest son's wedding. My hair is long and gray, because I dont do hair salons. My clothes are second hand from the goodwill, and I complain that even THEY ask too much money, and hit up garage sales. I should learn to shut up and sew. Im lucky and happy, but do bitch when the kids come home later than curfew.

I work at home, supplement my husband's income modestly, and indulge in cheap wine for occasions when I can. Tonight is such an occasion.. :D I turn 45 on Wednesday, and I dipped into my wine stash tonight a lil, hehe..

I dress like crap. I am wearing a summer dress at the moment that is over ten years old. It's cotton and comfy. Here I am.. I most surely hate 'real' clothes. But I do like to 'dress up' in my own modest creations.

ten minutes ago on the cell phone takin' a pic...Im a mess, pullin a ponytail round my face.

I AM sexy though, cause I come HERE all the time. Clothes be damned lol.

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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
62. While working, I destory my clothes
I tend to wear the same few outfits every day.

I earned those holes in my jeans.

On the weekends, I'm just lazy.

--Sniffa's one time poetry post--
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
64. i wear what i want.
do people think it's crap, i don't know and i don't care. My clothes are clean and generally not ripped.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
65. If they're like me, they just don't fucking care.
I'd actually prefer the Star Trek jumpsuit for everyone.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
66. I work in IT. If I didn't dress like a nerd, nobody would take me seriously
nt
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #66
172. hey you, nice to see you again
been a while. :hi:
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
67. You see, this is why I want Obama to be president.
He might shame a few people into taking pride in their appearance.

Seriously, I saw a guy on the bus the other week with a puff of boxer shorts sticking out the back of his between-the-devil-and-the-deep-blue-sea pants (i.e., too short for jeans, too long for shorts, plenty of hairy leg exposed).

Did this guy lose a bet or something?

And don't get me started on the people whose clothes are falling right off their bodies, or squeezing bits of body in all sorts of weird directions and configurations.

America, get a grip!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #67
92. You're joking about your first two sentences, right?
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #92
116. Only slightly.
Obviously I'm going to vote for him because of his mind and principles. But hell yes, I'm for the maturity thing and the classy look and the self-respect.

People do send messages by the way they dress, which is why we buy interview suits and rent tuxedos for weddings and so forth.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #67
99. I've had the same thought! I'm glad I'm not alone.
I, too, hope that an Obama presidency will not only encourage people to stop dressing like disgusting pauper slobs, but might also even encourage people to start reading, knowing things, and showing some curiosity about the world.

Obama dresses very sharp - sadly, not very many people do.

I see people wearing hats in restaurants (and not even nice hats, either - it's almost always baseball caps), sweatsuits in public, clothing that look like pajamas, underwear hanging out, tummies showing, spandex on people who shouldn't wear spandex, and so forth.

As someone else said above, "I wish people would dress as though they believed other people existed".
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #99
110. as does his wife, michelle obama is exquisitely dressed
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JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
68. If I could afford a nice suit at the moment I'd buy one.
The fact of the matter is, I really do wish I dressed better. It'd be nice to have the suit, just to go out and feel fancy every njow and then.

Some day, I'll reach that plateau...
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
72. What do you mean by 'old timey'?
By some of the responses here, like "Photographs were rare then, so people dressed up," I get the feeling some think you're talking about portraits made by Mathew Brady on a Daguerrotype plate. :shrug:



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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #72
180. Really!
Anybody who grew up in the 1950s and 1960s is probably pretty well documented, unless their family was REALLY poor.

It may have been before computers and cell phones, but we DID have cameras, even if we had to wait a few days for the pictures to come back from the drugstore.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #180
187. Hell, farther back than that
I can't tell you how many photos of my relatives I've found from the '30s and '40s.



Throughout these various sub-threads, I've been thinking of this photo, taken sometime between 1932 and May 23, 1934:







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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #72
196. Thank you. Guess we should have asked the OP that earlier.
WHen OP said "old timey" I thought, 19th century, and into the 20th up to about 1910-1920.

Apparently, I'm not the only one. Others thought 1950's and 1960's.

People, the 50's and 60's don't qualify as "old-timey!" :-) IMO.


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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
73. Well, I'm not gonna wear high heels and a girdle every day
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 08:10 PM by Withywindle
but I do wish hats for men for everyday wear would come back.

edit: REAL hats, not baseball caps. Feh.


.......mmmmmm, fedoras. :loveya:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
74. Because mullets and rock band t-shirts featuring depraved slogans were tolerated 20 years ago
:shrug:

That or people said school uniforms were bad...
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ForrestGump Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
75. I can agree with people on both sides of the fence here
All my life, I've worn what was practical. It didn't take long, once I passed earliest kidhood, to find myself resenting any attempt to get me gussied up in clothes that I had no liking for, and I actively resisted such attempts. I grew up, for the most part, in rural areas and spent an awful lot of time outdoors, engaging in many outdoor activities that became even more intensely focused and available when (at age 10) we moved to an outdoor pursuits center where my parents secured jobs. Like the hairy, rugged dudes and dudettes who staffed that place, my wardrobe was utilitarian to the max and intended primarily to withstand the rigors of bouncing about the landscape. I did wear shorts a lot (loved those '70s see-up jogging shorts, but denim shorts and cutoffs were also basically de rigeur back then, and jeans when it was cooler, and T-shirts were as close to 'dressy' as I'd usually get. Wool jackets and shirts were standard for the bush and if I wasn't wearing heavy (too heavy!) hiking boots or wetsuit booties I was running around barefooted as often as I wore sneakers and the like. It was ultra-casual dress code, I guess. I liked it and I got used to it as the norm.

Things sort of evolved from there. At 20 I came to the US and vagabonded around while usually decked out in Levis jeans and jacket, often with no shirt underneath but with a black silk scarf about my neck to add comfort and with sockless running shoes to handle all those miles I walked. I walked around Mission Beach, in San Diego, like that and didn't give a flying freak that I was dressed rather oddly for that subculture...in fact, for the revoltingly trendy '80s I was woefully and proudly out of style (though it didn't perturb me when I was more closely aligned with the inevitably cyclical fashion trend, as when jeans became more popular again and those icky tapered-leg jeans died a natural). I was and am one of those people who pretty much abhors trendiness but not so blindly that I care when the trends align with my own personal style at least somewhat. That happened again when cargo pants (shorts and long pants) became all the rage, while I was actively engaged as a field scientist working in the tropics (though I wore them back at my home university, too...handy pants), the only negative aspect of that being that the trendiness of cargo pants meant that suddenly it was harder to sort through the offerings to find pants that were actually USEFUL, many of them being intended for show and representing the all-show-no-substance kind of principle you'd expect from trendy clothing (also, sadly, generally the case with women's cargo pants, as if there're no women who might actually want functional versions thereof). During those years, I spent much of my time decked out in wetsuits and various other dive suits, anyway.

So, anyway, I guess I was like a lot of people: I knew what I liked, I didn't appreciate people commenting negatively on it (clothing snobs!...actually, usually slaves to the odd obsession with labels, as exemplified by Tommy Hilfiger and other brands that feature mostly self-referential styles that are way overpriced and otherwise not at all inspirational), and it worked for my needs. When I got married, I went all the way and chose Christian Dior white tails -- the clincher on that was seeing the picture on the back of the original Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour EP, with the Fab Four decked out thusly -- combined with my stepmother-in-law being adamant that I should not wear such a get-up -- and I grew to love that suit over the course of the day, it being so novel to me that it was basically the same feeling I'd get from a fancy-dress costume. Same with, years later, when I went to a postdoc interview in DC: I had to buy the whole outfit (nice sport jacket -- an extremely odd name, I've always thought, given how little such dress appears in most sports -- a couple of shirts, a tie, dress shoes, and slacks) for that trip and I even learned to tie my tie and remembered it just long enough to ensure I had it tied for my interview. That was, indeed, a true novelty, dressing up like that, and on the way back from the interview I popped on my shades and amused myself by impersonating a Secret Service type. It was fun. Putting on a suit every day strikes me as the opposite of fun, but I only wore that thing a few times and every time it was a distinct novelty and I couldn't help but feel extra swave and deboner.

Nowadays my current gig, at least for now, is impersonating Elvis Presley. Thusly, I spend a lot of time dressed up in heavy jumpsuits with capes, or similar Elvis fashions from the '70s. It's kind of made me more conscious of dress (and certainly of jewelry...I also even began using cologne, at least while on the job, for the very first time) and I began to indulge in an interest in various clothing styles that I'd always thought were cool, my access to such clothing coming largely through the magic of eBay. I've lately bought a lot of silk shirts and along with them or cotton equivalents I might sometimes wear a leather vest, concho belt, leather jeans (well, they're a little tight right now...my trusty black jeans are standing in), or whatever. I've managed to put together a fairly eclectic wardrobe lately, not that I've actually worn it all that often, that includes Chinese silk brocade jackets and cotton shirts, a Mexican peasant blouse, a few variations on the lace-up 'pirate' kind of shirt in black and in white (I've always loved those shirts...kind of Elvis-y in feel but actually going way back to childhood viewings of Captain Blood and the like), and so on. I've really taken to my side-zip black 'Elvis/Beatles' boots, too. I'd just love a really cool and ornate Charro suit, or even a matador jacket (the flashy kind worn by matadors, I mean, not the generic women's jacket cut), and I periodically search eBay for such. My sartorial choices of late are mostly undeniably more dressy than what I used to wear, or what I flop around in most of the time I'm not in urban public, but one thing hasn't really changed and that is that I really don't care what anyone else thinks of those choices; many of these clothes are kind of odd (to say the least), not exactly the mainstream, and even with the Elvis vibe provided by my hair and everything I'm aware of that. And I don't care. I don't even care that my pirate shirts and similar come mostly from Goth outfitters, despite it coming as a surprise to me that I'd become a Goth in my 40s.

So, yeah, I'm a big believer in dressing for comfort OR because you happen to like a particular clothing type, not in dressing to conform or to impress (or bow to) anyone else. Yes, dress codes exist for work, often, and sometimes what is the 'norm' really DOES happen to coincide with what people like. Years ago, I determined that I never wanted to work a job that made me wear a suit or tie and I've managed to keep that true -- science sure wasn't about to endanger me there (in my research field, formalwear was a Hawaiian shirt or field-of-expertise-relevant T-shirt with cargo shorts and maybe even socks) -- though it's definitely possible to make the case that dressing like Elvis goes far and above the kind of experience common to business types and others who wear suit and tie. Still, I recognize that there are undoubtedly men who LIKE wearing ties, just as there are women who seem to enjoy wearing items even more uncomfortable, though I'm not quite sure why they do.

Having said all that, I can relate to those among us who bemoan the apparently (important word, I guess) declining standards of dress in this country...in other countries, too, but perhaps most obviously here. Although -- as I took great pains to overstate -- I fully support a person's right to dress as he or she sees fit, there're some fairly atrocious choices being made. Sorry, but the whole thing with the oversized pants that're falling down just doesn't make sense to me...it's impractical to the max, potentially dangerous, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it really does not look 'cool,' or anything remotely close to that ideal. It's like the nonsensical trend back in the '90s for shoelaces to be untied, a phase that I don't think was long-lived, or the fictional trend from Back to the Future II whereby kids in the future all wear their pants pockets hanging out. I guess the difference here is that these kinds of dress are driven totally by some trend that got loose and propagated despite good reasons to the contrary, and I never did much have any regard for random trends or anything that even smacks of peer-group pressure, especially when it's maladapative. Wear your floppy pants if you want, though you'd better be prepared to ditch them if you need to run or use that hand that's holding them up, but there're a great many people who'll look at you as someone duped by a trend almost as pointless as the old Chinese bound-feet thing, though not quite as debilitating.

More to the point, there IS a huge movement toward extreme sloppiness in this country. This kind of tears me in two, to an extent, because my own history has me as a big believer in dressing for comfort and utility rather than dressing for other people. Still, there is a line..somewhere. Failing to recognize when you're way over that line can be a real shame. Here in Las Vegas, I often hear people bemoan the extremely casual dress that's the norm, and pine for the good old days when men and women dressed up to gamble, to go to shows, or just to enter the town of Las Vegas. I can relate to that feeling, to an extent, though partly in realization of the fact that this town has irrevocably changed and to a great extent is no longer Las Vegas in any meaningful sense (not the fault of women in stretchy pajama-style clothes or men with hairy backs in tank tops, but the inevitable result of its corporatization). It WAS kind of cool that people used to dress up to go to such places and do such things, rather than slouch around in sloppy clothes that look like they were just worn for mowing the lawn, even though my own personal preference would be to wear the lawnmowing clothes over suit and tie. Those days are long gone, anyway.

Do Americans tend to dress way down these days? Yes. Is that kind of a shame? Yes, depending on the context. Do I blame us for it? No. So help me, I'm in two minds about this. I do know that there're some pretty unfortunate choices being made my people out there, in terms of choosing clothes that are eminently unflattering or that emphasize (or totally bare) features that're probably better off not highlighted but, on the other hand, I can simultaneously regret their choices while celebrating their freedom of choice and comfort with their own bodies.

It's all very confusing, sometimes.

I really would love a cool Charro suit, though...




Muy suave...


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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
76. My grandpa grew up in the 20's - 30's...
... in rural Indiana. He said that back then going to town was an occasion, and you used to get dressed up because you were going to be doing business when you went.
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snailly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
77. Laziness
That is all.
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
82. My mother-in-law, who unfortunately lives with us
hangs around all day in a flimsy old nightgown and bathrobe. It sure is depressing to look at her.

I don't mind if people want to dress comfortable (I do, too). But can't you put on some sweats and a T-shirt?
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
83. self-delete- double post
Edited on Mon Jul-21-08 09:37 PM by latebloomer
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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
84. Most people are far more comfortable in other clothing.
My choice of clothing, at least during this time of year are shorts and a t-shirt. When going into the office, a clean pair of jeans and a polo/golf shirt.

Why are you concerned with what other people wear anyway?

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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
85. Comfort and cost are the keys, IMO.
Also, lots of Americans are overweight, and they just wear whatever is loose and covers their big, flabby bods. :)

I'm 42, and I'm still figuring out what looks good on me. I'm not overweight, but I just don't have the greatest sense of style. I tend to dress in simple clothes and solid colors.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
94. Cameras were more rare and film was expensive.
If someone was coming to take your picture, even a factory worker would put on their best suit.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #94
131. Not after the 1920s
And work clothes were either overalls or jumpsuit type things.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #131
165. Cameras became more common, but for many personal photography was limited
to occasions- births, weddings, birthdays, holidays, and when the out of town relatives were visiting. I would guess it was in part because the cost of film and development wasn't insignificant for the working class but there may also have been a lingering aura about it --that photos were portraits rather than candid captures. To the extent that special events were a trigger, there is a greater percentage of photos with people wearing their Sunday best rather than their every day attire. It does seem to have changed after WWII but I don't know of any formal study to back up my WAG on this.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
95. I wish fedora's were in style...
I wish fedora's were in style. Last night I watched the old classic comedy, His Girl Friday. Every guy wore a fedora (or a bowler-- those are pretty cool in an 'Our Gang Comedies' kind of way), and every young lady had her hair in that perfectly manicured, 1940's hair-do's.

Although I know that baseball caps have replaced fedoras, it's just a wish on my part that we turn back the style clock and wear hats (not caps) ties to work-- I *love* ties-- the weirder, the better.

But then again, I also wish Members Only jackets would come back in style-- so I'm not really one to talk... :)
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. A great hat is never out of style...
it's a timeless classic, like the plain black tie, gray suit, cap-toed shoe and an understatedly-elegant timepiece.

At worst it makes you stand out as unique.

I'm saving up for this one:



$49.00
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
98. Back in those same "good" old days
African-Americans would have to sit at the back of the bus and were also not allowed to drink from the same fountains as whites, and were not allowed into major league baseball until 1948.

Women in the workplace were an oddity in roles beyond the office secretary and women could be fired if they became pregnant.

Dating outside one's race would often lead to trouble and interracial marraige was illegal in several states.

Gay people were pretty much confined to an existence "in the closet"

Birth control could be illegal in several states until the 1960s.

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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. So - a few bad things, so we should just chuck everything from those eras?
Those issues are entirely irrelevant to the clothing issue at hand.

If any one bad thing negates entirely a whole period of time, then perhaps we should throw away America because it was created at a time of slavery and lack of modern-day dental care.

:eyes:

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. you are wrong. those issues are very tied into clothing
the move away from collectivism to individualism has helped with the womens rights and the gay rights movements. it is the same move that inpart has made clothign less formal and less regulated.

impractical clothing reinforces the idea that women are unsuitable for the workforce.


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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. Yes, but it's possible to look respectable and not be a slave owner.
It's not an either/or proposition.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting we go back to corsets - what I'm hearing is that we go back to people looking decent and respectable, and as though they actually liked themselves AND cared about the other people out in public who might interact with them.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. i think most people do look respectable, despite what the media portrays
most of us work for a living. so atleast 9 hours a day, we cant look indecent. even in the media just because some people are highlighted (britney, paris and their tank top wearing boyfriends) doesnt mean most celebrities dont dress well.

maybe the rest of america/world differs but in nyc, unless i am hanging out with an under 21 crowd, most people are well dressed.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #109
112. People do dress way the hell better in NYC than elsewhere.
At least, in Manhattan, anyway, and Brooklyn Heights and etc.

It's one thing I miss about NYC - seeing people actually dressed well. And not necessarily formal, but well.

I think outside any major metro area, the dressage goes way down to shit - just plain looking like crap.

I think there's a lot of low self-esteem issues out there in the world.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #112
114. yeah when i go visit lisa's parents i am kind of shocked at how sweatpants
are considered acceptably dinner wear by some people in the area.

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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #114
118. so now
if we have that DU get together on August 10th, I should plan on dressing nicely instead of wearing shorts, sandals & a t-shirt?
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #118
119. nope. shorts is fine. i think for casual lunches, dying from the heat
is not worth it.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #118
123. Is August 10 still looking good for you?
and, any ideas of where?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #108
132. Right, learn to use wardrobe items other than T-shirts and sweatpants
:-)
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #98
105. Not that I disagree with you on any of that, but...
what does it have to do with people not taking pride of appearance? In some ways, the world has improved; in others, we've lost something vital...like the ability to look respectable.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #105
107. people do take pride. its a question of uniformity. people wear less uniform clothes.
uniformity being broken has done much for civil rights (gay, women and those of color)

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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #107
115. I don't think people should dress uniformly either...
but it used to drive me nuts, absolutely insane, when I was still in the "white-collar" sector doing non-profit work and I had volunteers show up to work at press conferences, meetings, events, etc. wearing jeans (or even Dockers) and a tee-shirt and sneakers. I might be a hard-ass but they aren't representing me or any organization I worked for dressed like that in a professional setting. It sends the image that they don't respect the work we're doing enough to look like they want to send a great impression.

I'm a believer in dressing with a personal sense of style.

It's not the death of the uniform anyways; one uniform has replaced another. Instead of the suit, it's the company-polo with flat-front khakis. At least the suit offered the possibility of self-expression.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #107
133. Actually, they wear very uniform clothes
T-shirts for everyone and pants of some sort.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #133
150. really? i am looking at my office right now, and not so much
guess it depends to a degree on where you live.

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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #133
193. I love uniforms!
Sometimes I wear many at once, like a scrub top with a plaid skirt, fishnets and army boots.

I used to have a cop hat too, but some fucker stole it.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
100. several reasons
Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 08:04 AM by lionesspriyanka
1. we do a lot of our own work and dont have housekeepers etc. women are in the workforce and cannot wear impractical clothing

2. cultures generally have gotten more casual because of the move from collectivism to individualism

3. fashion changes

4. people can we well dressed even if they are casually dressed. i dont dress like crap just because i dont walk around in a gown

5. people take pics at all times now so we dont dress up for them
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
103. Oct. 2, 1973
Was the last day anyone told me how to dress. I think that people who wear suits and those Croatian self-strangulation devices are the ones who dress weird.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
106. It's part of the slow destruction of etiquette and manners
Why bother to dress like a human being if you aren't going to act like one in manners and speech?

I hope this trend can reverse itself.

Not that I'm looking for suits and dresses all the time - but I am looking for decent casual looks, which sweatsuits, spandex, pajamas, belly-exposing, and other shitty kinds of clothing aren't.

I'd just like to see more people starting to dress in a way that says "I respect myself, and I respect you" when they're out in public.

And I'd like to see them start using some manners - saying please and thank you, treating people like human beings, and generally being genial, friendly, and hospitable.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
111. Because unless you can afford something really well tailored
Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 08:26 AM by DS1
and high quality, your suit is going to be an uncomfortable piece of shit, and you just don't want to wear it.

That's been my experience, anyway.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #111
120. And where is your Savile Row suit...hmmm?
:D
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. I'd never heard of that
oh well. I'm poor.
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
113. Annoying.
I can say that some of the responses in this thread have horrified me. I used to be a volunteer coordinator for a local literacy organization; I sent people, unpaid volunteers!, home for being inappropriately-dressed who were dressed better than what some people in this thread have said they wear to work. When you show show-up to work or volunteer with the public in a professional capacity, you represent the company and/or organization. I have neither compunction or concern for your comfort; only for how you represent the organization.

People are lucky I am not their boss. Tee-shirt? Track pants? Baseball cap? Exposed bra-straps/boxers/panties? Fired. Sneakers? Polo shirt? Dress shorts? Only if you're going to be outside all day and on your feet.

To quote Chuggo: "C'mon fuckin' guy!" If you want to be taken seriously, dress like you have some self-respect. Your Sunday best should be your workday regular if you work in an office.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #113
151. Glad you're not my boss.
;)

We have a casual dress code here (real casual, not business casual), so I (and just about everyone) wear T-shirts and jeans for the most part.

That's not to say we can get away with wearing anything, but they really don't care up here as long as you look decent. In fact, when I interviewed for the job, I dressed up in a shirt and tie while my boss was wearing a t-shirt.

:rofl:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #113
189. really glad i dont work with you. nt
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
117. In old timey days, people rarely had pictures taken. When they did, most of the time, they were
wearing their Sunday best.

If you could travel back in time and take pictures of these same old-timers going about their regular business, you'd find that people dressed like crap in those days too. When they weren't getting their pictures taken, that is.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #117
137. They did NOT go around in athletic garb all the time
I remember the 1950s.

First of all, cameras were not expensive. Cameras were cheap. Everyone had one.

Work clothes for blue collar workers were overalls or jeans and a T-shirt or else a jump suit.

Women who stayed at home wore housedresses, and if they were bold, tailored pants and a nice shirt.

Children had "school clothes" and "play clothes," and never the twain shall meet.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #137
157. Athletic garb? I remember the 50's too.

Girls had to wear dresses to school (which was a PITA) but changed when home. Boys usually wore the same clothes to school as they did after school.

Women who stayed home wore dresses, sometimes slacks or shorts. They were by no means as dressed up as June Cleaver.

"Work clothes for blue collar workers were overalls or jeans and a T-shirt " Same for farm workers.

I know cameras weren't expensive in the 1950's. I was there. I took it that the OP was talking about old-timey such as around 1900, not as recently as the '50's To be sure, I don't think he/she specified.

Athletic garb? Did I miss something? Didn't read the whole thread.

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #157
162. I was referring to my nephews and their friends, who dress like
basketball players in the summer and wear sweats in the winter. I've never seen them in anything else.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
122. I think people do dress like crap nowadays, even if they can afford better
If all you can afford is T shirts and baggy shorts from Target, that's one thing. If you can afford better, why not wear better?

Last year, we pulled out the slides of our family's trip to Europe in the 1960s and showed them at my mother's birthday celebration. My nieces' and nephews' reaction was "Everyone's dressed so formally."

We didn't think we were dressed formally at the time, and we were not posing for pictures most of the time. Those clothes are what we wore every day while traveling around Europe--and were also what we wore to school. Our ages at the time were between 12 and 17. But I was wearing either a jumper or a skirt, and my brothers were wearing shirts with buttons and pants with belts, and that must have looked "formal," especially to my nephews, who seem to think that no occasion is too formal to attend in athletic gear. In fact, it's been years since I've seen them in anything else.

I even attended a funeral a couple of years ago where the deceased's 14-year-old granddaughter wore sweats.

I was brought up to believe that dressing up for an occasion is a sign of respect, so even though I know it's probably not true, wearing athletic garb to a formal occasion looks disrespectful. Maybe it is. Maybe it's the adolescent attitude of "My comfort is more important than anything, so fuck you."

Someone upthread commented about the 60s. As one who was there, I can state that a massive cultural transformation took place in the mid 1960s. Go to your library and look at the Life magazines from 1964, especially the coverage of the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley, and see the men students in coats and ties and the women students in dresses. Look at coverage of the anti-war activities of 1968, and that's where you see what everyone thinks of as the "60s look." But the point of the hippie look was to dress with some style and flair, not just grub around, and it coexisted with some very straight-laced fashions:
The non-hippie girls at my college wore loose minidresses with white knee highs or else pants with tunics.

Here are some pictures I've found on the Internet. They don't paste, so I'm giving you the link. It's actually a fan site devoted to a model named Colleen Corby, whose career lasted from about 1962 to 1972. You can see just slightly exaggerated versions of what a non-hippie girl would have worn to school or on formal occasions during that period. I'm giving you the link for 1968, but there are links to other years as well. A must for anyone interested in fashion.

http://groups.msn.com/TheFirstColleenCorbyFanCommunity/...

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #122
141. Yep. One of my best friends was a well known model during that era
she mostly worked for Rudi Gernreich, but did all sorts of runway shows and print ads for other designers of the time as well. She's always well "turned out" in her photo albums from the time, but these days, like most everyone else, she's kind of dressing like crap. I think the change for most people came during the late 80's and early 90's when "casual Fridays" started to be all the rage. Pretty soon every day was "casual Friday". I still have a few items of clothing from the 70's and 80's. Everything is pretty "dressy" by today's standard until about 1988 or so.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #141
145. I dress like crap to work from home, but I have three outside occasions
this week, and I'm going to wear a long skirt and top to all of them, something that is extremely comfortable, by the way.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #145
149. "something that is extremely comfortable"
In your opinion.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #149
152. It is--you should try it some time
:-)
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #122
154. But the truth is, it costs no more to dress decently than slobbily.
Being dressed appropriately has nothing to do with money - it's only about attitude, whether one is ready to join the adult world of mature people who respect each other, or whether one is a self-focused damn-everyone-else toddler. Or somewhere in between.

All these jackasses running around in baseball hats and wife-beaters and concert shirts or sweatsuit outfits could have just as easily, and for the same price (or less), gotten a collared shirt (whether dress or polo), jeans or slacks (or even shorts) that actually fit, and so on. And the same with the women - that sweatsuit isn't necessarily cheaper than something appropriate outside of a gym or NASCAR tobacco spitting contest.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #154
178. Right--if money is really a problem, it costs no more to buy
a pair of khakis than it does to buy a pair of "grandma pants" and no more to buy a shirt-sleeved shirt with buttons than to buy a sloppy t-shirt with the name of a team written on it.

When I was advising students who were going to study in Japan, I'd have to tell them about proper dress: no bare chests for guys or halter tops for girls, not even if it is 100 degrees with 100% humidity (Japanese people wear a tank top at minimum, and then only for outdoor work or casual occasions), no bare feet outdoors EVER, and when invited to an occasion with adults, such as a welcome dinner or a holiday party, you dress as if you're working in an office.

Don't get me started on spandex maternity outfits...

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
125. A). poorly made crap from China, and B). dry cleaning
Clothing-often even the expensive stuff-is so sub standard these days that it starts to fall apart or look worn out and threadbare after only a half dozen washings or so. And then there's dry cleaning. Cleaning one simple sun dress can set you back $12. The chemicals used in dry cleaning are so harsh that they give me dermatitis, so I had to give up wearing lovely dresses and linen shirts and slacks for all but the most formal occasions. Also, many of us now work from home now and anything that isn't sweats is a step up for us! ;-)
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
128. I prefer to be comfortable.
I don't dress to impress anymore.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
134. This is just silly.
People have always dressed all different kinds of ways depending on time, place, economic situation, etc.

Plus, appearance = bullshit. Superficiality = the suck.

Ugh ugh ugh.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
136. Also... this idea that better dressed = better mannered... bullshit.
This is just thinly-disguised classism IMO.

Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh!
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #136
142. But how do you really feel?
;)

:hi:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. Unreasonably annoyed by this thread!
x(

:P

:hi:
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #143
184. You and me both, sister.
I just keep thinking that, if judged by the quality of my clothes and hairstyle, I wouldn't be considered a very worthy or valuable person. Never mind the fact that all I can *afford* are the Wal-Mart t-shirts and el cheapo jeans, and that I haven't been able to afford "dress clothes" for years. Suddenly, I dress like "crap". By whose standard, anyway? Who the hell has the power to declare what's "nice" and what isn't, and WHY would anyone just blindly accept the premise that our personal standards of appearance are somehow valid and powerful enough to justify passing judgment upon other people? Ugh.

Just...ick. x(
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #184
185. Well if you don't *like* wearing polo / button down shirts or whatever...
then clearly you're just... just... you dress like crap! Stop it! :P

:crazy:
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
159. Polyester.
I find quality clothes at hand-me-down stores. Seems like the "Ragdoll" who always wore second hand clothes, knew quality when she found it.

Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons
(Bob Crewe & Bob Gaudio)
(Rag doll, ooh.) (Hand me down)
When she was just a kid. her clothes were hand-me-downs.
(Hand-me-down)
They always laughed at her when she came into town.
Called her rag doll,
Little rag doll. Such a pretty face
should be dressed in lace.
Ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh. Ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh.
(Shag rag doll)
I'd change her sad rags into glad
rags if I could (if I could).
My folks won't let me cause they say that she's no good.
She's a rag doll, such a rag doll; though I love her so,
I can't let her know.
Ooh ooh ooh ooh oh. Ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh oh.
Aah aah aah aah aah. I love you just they way you are.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
163. My mother was dressed like (what you would term) "crap" back then.
Her mother made their dresses out of flour sacks which had different patterns on them (for that purpose). The only time they dressed up (store bought, ribbons and bows, tights and Mary Janes) was on Sunday, Birthdays and/or special occasions (traveling, photographs). Otherwise it was Brogans and those flour sack dresses=crap.
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KitchenWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
170. I dress like crap and I am quite happy about it, thank you very much
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
171. Why do people care?
:shrug:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
173. for me it's all about the shoes
slacks look funny with nike's, so i wear jeans generally because i find sneakers comfortable to wear all day. i find dress shoes, even Rockports and such comfortable dressier shoes to be a lot less comfortable than sneakers.
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ForrestGump Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #173
200. I agree. You might want to check out some dress boots, though.
I sort of phased from classic blue jeans in to Dockers and the like, when I was working in SoCal (they fit the dress code -- I absolutely hated the pleated black pants and tan pants that I had for a while, though, mainly because that seemed to be all you could find in the '80s), and I kept wearing them when I went back to academia, switching to cargo pants for field work and general running around. New Balance running shoes, in particular, became my constant companion once I ditched the Nikes and other stuff (had foot problems that probably stemmed from tropical sojourns) and there's little that can beat them for comfort, practicality, and support of podiatric health. And, yeah, they don't go all that well with slacks and the like unless you're Forrest Gump...um....er....yeah.

It seems to me that women's shoes can be a real nightmare. I mean, I know they are for men, but they seem a real pain (often literally) for many women, too. My wife had fairly good-sized feet, for a woman of her stature, and she had a really hard time finding shoes that worked. She also suffered from foot problems (I think all long since faded) that contributed to her ongoing back and neck problems as a result of wearing those cutesie little high-top Reebok crosstrainers that were compulsory for young women in the San Fernando Valley in the '80s. Those shoes really were useless, though my own limited experience with Reebok suggests that they're universally worthless and even more a victory of style over substance than much of the Nike line. As with many things, it seems like women did and probably still do get the short end of the stick in terms of quality of construction, selection, availability of products suited to robustly withstand the rigors of intense outdoor pursuits (I guess such pursuits are not considered 'ladylike' by American manufacturers of clothing and accessories). For me, I used to have trouble finding pants (those with a long enough inseam usually seemed to have a waistband that'd suit Frank Cannon, a technical unit of waistline measurement that equals six Paris Hiltons bundled together) but now it seems to be getting easier as taller people appear to be proliferating and the same is certainly true of shoes (though my foot's wider than average and thusly New Balance is a good choice, as would be Brooks and maybe one or two other athletic shoe makers).

I was lucky to have little need for dress shoes, and mostly wore sandals in my earliest years before going to sneakers (or bare feet), and every time I'd have to wear them I'd just feel flatfooted and awkward. They're not practical for much of anything, that's for sure. Further, I find most American dress shoe styles absolutely atrocious to behold, the ugliest men's shoes I've ever seen. Sure, men are way better off in terms of comfort and fashion-timelessness in formal footwear than are women but, shoot, could some of these shoes get any uglier? Those funky things with the weird swirls and holes, with or without tassles, and long pointy tips...ewwww. I was lucky enough to find a somewhat less dressy choice with unadorned black Nunn-Bush nubuck shoes -- also had a slightly softer sole than most of those clunky and rigid dress-shoe soles and they were actually fairly comfortable -- when it came time to get myself interviewing clothes. And, for semi-dressy times, I got hold of some of those brown Rockport-y kind of shoes, and they're not too bad at all and go well with the ubiquitous khaki/tan slacks.

Nowadays, though, if it's not my trusty running shoes (for many years now I've been favoring the top of their off-road running line, perfect because running shoes are generally the best for your feet and because I was traveling to rustic places where the ruggedness of their off-road choices was perfect), it's my side-zip black boots, bought originally for my Elvis outfits but now my default for slightly less casual attire. I put good insoles in them and find them very comfortable (and, unlike my current pair of white ones, that're much more expensive and hard to find as well as almost impossible to keep looking presentable) the Nunn Bush kind I've found have a low heel and really are really fairly comfortable, and they come in widths. They have a smooth leather sole, though, so you'll slip and slide if you hit water or even polished marble (especially before you scuff 'em up a bit), but they're very comfortable for a more dressy item of footwear and are eminently suited to many modes of dress. They can't come untied, either. If you need a pair of shoes to go with less casual attire, I'd definitely check these boots out; they're less 'retro' than timeless, I think, and the kind I have can be had for as low as $61 (best price I've thus far paid for Nunn Bush's Bristol boot, online, shipping included) though you can always go with the classic Florsheim version for another $40 or more. They're not running shoes, but they're not bad.







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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
174. well, if you came to our church on a normal Sunday you would see men in suits
ladies in pretty dresses and suits and children in cute clothes.

If one works in a seriously professional atmosphere, one dresses for it. Most offices have business casual for comfort, and ease of maintaining wardrobe.

If one is having a formal portrait made, one usually gets all dolled up for it. But one doesn't dress that way every day.

Some people just dress in tshirts and jeans or shorts because it's all they can afford, or because they don't ever go anywhere that requires fancier dress.

In Texas, we are more casual due to the HEAT. If I am just going out to run errands I throw on a pair of shorts and a top and do what I need to do, but if I am going to work, or church, or a play or something I take it up a notch or two.

In Fort Worth, one can go almost anywhere in jeans, a nice shirt or top and for men, a sport coat or suede jacket as long as you are clean and neat. There are a few places that are too dressy for their own good but not many. it is a casual town.

having said all that, today's fashions just suck, and those things go in cycles. I have to work hard to find stuff I like, but I do.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
175. People in these parts definitely dress like crap.
Edited on Tue Jul-22-08 01:02 PM by Brigid
Even when they're job-hunting. Just the other day I was sitting in the reception area of a lawyer's office, filling out a job application. There were other applicants doing the same, and not one of them was wearing what I would consider appropriate dress to apply for work in a lawyer's office. One even had on -- wait for it -- flip flops. And it gets worse: I spoke briefly with the lawyer himself, and he was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt. Yikes! His staff wasn't dressed much better. I was wearing a skirted suit, and was easily the best dressed person anywhere around.

And don't even get me started on how people dress for church. Call me old-fashioned, but as far as I'm concerned, cargo pants, t-shirts, and sandals just don't cut it. I almost never see any of the men in suits, and if I wear a skirt I'm likely to be the only woman doing so.

Oh, and -- you kids get off my lawn! :evilgrin:
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
182. Who defines "nice"?
Maybe other people have a different idea of "nice" than you do. There's no natural-order Rule that states that starched shirts and lovely dresses are "nice" and torn jeans and a t-shirt are "sloppy." That's a completely invented standard, and modern people are a lot more like to give a big F-U to constructed social norms and walk their own path than those "old-timey" people were. We are freer, which means we are less formal and less concerned with maintaining our "social image." Modern people judge others more on the content of their character than on how they look/dress--at least, more so than our forebears did.

Or perhaps people nowadays have more important things to spend their time on than the hours of pressing/washing/starching/maintaining/grooming that went into those old-timey looks. Not everyone can afford drycleaning service.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
183. People also didn't have the amount of clothes in their wardrobe...

...as we do now. Even into the 60s, kids would have maybe 4 or 5 shirts for school and a few pairs of pants. Now everyone has tons of cheap clothing.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #183
190. That's another issue - I'd rather (and do) have a few suits and shirts of good quality
then a closet full of cheap-ass shit, even though the so-called "I dress like a slob because I'm poor" (the excuse I'm hearing from a lot of people above) wardrobe cost the same as (or likely more than) mine.

I bet I spend far less on clothes than a lot of people, and am dressed better than a lot of them.
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trackfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
186. My grandfather was a janitor, but he wore a suit and tie going to work
and changed into work clothes when he got there.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
192. Freedom of expression.
:sarcasm:


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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
194. "Grandpa yells at moon"
thanks for reaffirming your age. :P
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
198. If I wear a dress at a store where employees must dress up
I usually have at least one customer, usually at least a few ask me questions about where something is or a question about something that they are looking at. This really bothers me. As a result, I usually don't dress up unless I am going to a dress up occaision.
I don't know about men's suits, but women's dress up attire covers quite a price range. You can wear dresses that look nice for a relatively low price.
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
199. hence, I'm nekkid
saves beou coup...

would you blow air this way?

:P
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