Is it wrong to be glad someone is dead?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

My mother just called me and told my that my cousin's husband had just succumbed to his lung cancer. My cousin used to call me before he got sick and told me that he was terrible to her. He and his oldest son basically used my cousin as a maid. Now she's free to take care of her sons as she sees fit. Is it terrible of me to be happy that my cousin's husband is dead?
Duckie

[taterguy]

1. No

[laylah]

2. Never judge your feelings,

Ducky. It is what you do with them you must be aware of. Personally, I don't think your feelings are off base. :hug:

[Haole Girl]

3. Don't feel guilty

In that situation, I'm sure a certain amount of those feelings are perfectly understandable (and normal). :hug:

[datasuspect]

4. only if it is NOT ronald reagan or the crocodile hunter or the pope

everything else is okay.

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. No. Unless, apparently, it's some rightwing vile fuck like Reagan or Falwell or other,

which a number of DUers feel the need to tell us we CAN'T be glad are dead.

But in my opinion, no, it's never wrong to be glad someone is dead - unless you don't really mean it, because then it's dishonest.

[CTyankee]

20. I don't blame but I DO feel it is bad karma.

You should accept your feelings of relief that someone is no longer menacing you or a loved one. I just don't think "dancing on the grave" of anyone does any good for one's soul. Relief, yes, tho.

[mondo joe]

31. I don't think it's bad karma because death isn't, in and of itself, a bad thing.

Death happens to everyone - it's part of life.

Causing unnecessary death or pain, enjoying another's suffering - those seem to be grounds for bad karma. But being happy - or more typically relieved - to be rid of someone is another thing.

[CTyankee]

34. Yes, I agree, being relieved is fine. "Dancing on graves" is something else, IMHO.

Somehow, I feel that is bad, karma wise. What do you think?

[mondo joe]

38. I'm not sure I can always understand the difference.

I'm not saying there isn't a difference - just that I think there's overlap, and as people on DU describe it I don't always see a difference. When Jerry Falwell died some said they were happy and others said they were grave dancing.

I guess if you're really talking Karma, it's about what one feels moreso than what othes say about them.

But, personally, I think Karma means that good actions are their own reward and bad actions are their own suffering. I don't believe in an external source of punishment.

:shrug:

[badgerpup]

43. Maybe this is just nitpicking...

...but MHO is there's a BIG difference- karma-wise- between 'contributing to the demise' and 'grave-dancing'.

Not making ANY judgement calls here.

Used to think I'd never, ever want to dance on anybody's grave...
but I try to be honest with myself. :shrug:
There's quite a few people extant for whose funeral I'd be willing to shell out for tap-dancing lessons...and believe you me, it'll have to be a damn Conga line in order to accomodate everyone.


The occupant is going to have to get there under their OWN steam though.

[CTyankee]

47. "Is this the best use of my time?" is the question I would ask.

Filling yourself with more venom is, to me, not a good thing to do for your psyche or your physical health. Just my opinion, tho. It's all in your outlook I guess...

[badgerpup]

63. Good question.

Seriously.
:thumbsup:

Sometimes though, one feels...well...helpless.
Strictures, not just by 'society' but one's own personal rules forbid any kind of retaliation for perceived wrongs.

All one is permitted to do is accept what is handed out, gracefully or otherwise. A lot of religions advocate 'turn the other cheek'...or advise that anything you do, good or bad, will be returned unto you three-fold.
"What goes around, comes around"...so one wants to be rather careful about what one sets going around, right?

Seeing that the author of the wrongdoing has finally gotten their 'comeuppance'...
I think a bit of Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead! is both understandable and allowable.

Then let it go.

[Chovexani]

62. Death is part of life's cycle

Somehow I don't think it's "bad karma", any more than being happy at anything else that is a natural cycle.

Hell, in some cultures it's "bad karma" to NOT dance on someone's grave.

Karma's an extremely misunderstood concept in the West, IMHO.

[DS1]

6. nope

[The Animator]

7. Only if they're not dead yet.

I do regret Ken Lay's death. Only cause we never got to see the bastard go to prison.

[unapatriciated]

41. Elvis is dead, Kaufman is dead but Lay.....

is probably living in Dubai spending his stolen fortune. All kidding aside even in death (still want to stick my hands in his wounds) he managed to steal from his workers.

"In a posthumous act of "corporate hubris," former Enron workers received notices that they're responsible for "all costs" involved with Kenneth Lay's funeral, insider sources said yesterday."

http://www.brokennewz.com/displaystory.asp_Q_storyid_E_1458layfuneral

http://www.brokennewz.com/displaystory.asp_Q_storyid_E_1452llayphoto

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13864798/

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. No. So long as you're not singing about it in front of those who might

be sad.

You can't help your feelings. And he sounds like he was terrible to her. I only hope they were able, as a couple, to reach some closure-for your cousin's sake. Regrets are a horrible thing, even when the deceased doesn't deserve them.

Take care.

[Tikki]

9. Relief/gladness....fine line...n/t

[Lex]

10. Sorry, but it was your cousin's responsibility to remove herself from that

situation with him.

I wouldn't be glad he's dead but just that it had to come to that before your cousin got away from him.

[skater314159]

13. Blaming the victim of abuse is deplorable.

If you knew anything about Spousal Abuse and the Cycle of Abuse, you would not make such patently false statements here.

For many abusers, LEAVING the abuser is what results in the death of the abused.

Don't ever judge others for their experience - that is neither helpful nor supportive, and it only adds to the shame and fear of the victim.

If you really want to learn what spousal abuse victims FEEL instead of JUDGING THEM, read the following:
tfromwithin.org/html/spousal.html

As a former peace officer, I can tell you that spousal abuse is not as simple as you proclaim, and that abuse victims should not be judged or punished for their actions - they are survivors... not punching bags, and your statement is just as emotionally abusive as her husband was.

[Lex]

17. "your statement is just as emotionally abusive as her husband was."

That is just laughable, and childish to say.

Of course it's difficult to get out of an abusive relationship, and I didn't say that it wasn't.

[skater314159]

19. You just denegrated her for not doing it.

And what you said WAS emotionally abusive and insensitive... her cousin is on this thread you know that... but I guess their feelings don't matter to you either?

[Lex]

21. "her cousin is on this thread you know that"

now you're a mind reader?

how would I know that? did the OP say that in the post?

take a deep breath and settle down, my friend

[skater314159]

23. Yeah, read the OP.

Oh, and people who denegrate abuse victims and survivors aren't my "friend".

[Deep13]

56. Causation is not blame.

Even if it was not your cousin's fault, she was still the only one who could do anything about it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. but you dont know that she could. maybe she couldnt.

[Deep13]

58. Well, I suppose she might have been held prisoner.

Even if she can't, it doesn't mean anyone else can. If there is no reported crime (like battery for example) then the authorities can't do anything either. I know about the economic implications, how victims often recant because a little violence may be preferable to being evicted because only the defendant has a decent-paying job. (NB: In this state, we go to trial anyway, even if the victim recants later.) The psychological abuse is certainly abuse, but it is not abuse in any legal sense since the law presumes she is an adult who willing decides to stay there.

I have to think the OP would have taken her in. If she were my cousin, I would have. It's not the victim's fault--not blaming her--but in the practical matter of ending the suffering, she should have walked out and never looked back.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. there are other ways to hold people prisoners.

[Deep13]

60. I know it, but unless the victim tries to change it, it is hopeless.

The hardest part is understanding that what the abuser is doing is wrong. (I see that all the time in child abuse cases. Why didn't you tell anyone? I didn't know I could. That's why D.13 didn't tell anyone.)

The abuser is not going to stop being an asshole. Why should he? Unless there is violence, the cops won't do anything. And if there is, it has to be reported for them to know about it. I suppose if she has a lot of family nearby, an uncle or brother or something could "sort him out." Of course, if her family was that supportive, she would probably know not to be in that situation. I'm not suggesting that leaving is easy. I know it is not. I am just saying it really is the only option she has especially if there is violence. A lot of my domestic abuse cases involved petty battery for years and we only find out when the woman ends up in the emergency room or the morgue. :-(

[Raven]

16. Sometimes that's very hard to do, especially with kids involved. n/t

[Lex]

18. absolutely true

(and I didn't mean to imply otherwise)

It's just heart-breaking to see people's lives slip by while they live a life of being abused. Very sad.

[Darth_Kitten]

51. In defense of Lex...........

some people do CHOOSE those who are not good for them and have SOME responsibility at least if they stay with them. Not saying that it what happened here, but in general, people have to take some ownership about the kinds of individuals they allow in their lives.

for instance, don't date a drinker, marry him, and then be so surprised he doesn't sober up and become a model husband.

Of course in abusive relationships, it's very difficult to make that clean break. :(

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. you dont know her position in this, you are being unnecessarily harsh

victims of abuse are often trapped for various reasons. since you dont have all the info, you are in no position to judge what her cousin could or could not have done

[skater314159]

11. No. I understand what you are saying.

What you are feeling is normal. Its called relief.

I had to watch some of my friends' parents die of cancer - and I helped them through the journey of hospice... and they all felt relieft to know thier family member was finally free of pain and at peace (however that is defined within their respective philosophy or religion).

There are two kinds of relief - relief of the good lives finding peace and the relief of the more difficult people finally being free of thier mental prisions of hate and fear. For example, some of the parents and siblings I helped on the Journey to Death were great people... we were all sad at their passing, and mourned the loss. Other parents I helped were as hateful, mean, acerbic, and dysfunctional in the face of death as they had lived their lives... for them death was a release from hate and fear into the peace of death.

Our culture really doesn't deal with death at all, and we barely even deal with abuse or the fact that some people are nasty people. In other cultures - like Mexico - where death is accepted, it's okay to be open about feelings of sadness, mourning, and even relief. Because of this, Elisabeth Kubler Ross has done awesome work on death, dying, and the experience of the grief cycle by both those dying and their loved ones in American culture. I'd recommend you read "On Death and Dying" as well as "Tunnel of Light" as both can explain what youre feeling right now. You are at the stage called acceptance, because you realise your cousin is now free.

I myself have felt relief at death - my step-mother died last August; she had abused my father and I physically, emotionally, spiritually, and verbally for years, and she murdered my father. I can't tell how much of a relief it is to know that she will never hurt me or kill anyone ever again... and to know that she is finally at peace and either one with the universe through forgiveness, or undergoing some kind of Karmic Cleansing so that she can eventually be at peace. I don't take pleasure at death, but I do recognise that it is a natural part of life, and that for some people, it is the only way they can be free of generating more bad Karma.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

12. I understand where you are coming from ...

One of my best friends since childhood committed suicide a couple of months ago.And I did'nt grieve because in my mind the only way she could find peace was in death. Harsh to say but I can't explain it. I don't condone suicide but I just pray that she found peace. Again I can't explain it.

[HughBeaumont]

14. Nope.

For instance, I'm going to throw a rib cook-off when The Failure Fuhrer dies. He probably doesn't deserve that kind of attention, but he not only stuck my friend with PTSD, he stuck my family and their kid's kids with the bill for his wars.

Mistakes have no place on this earth, and I can think of more than a few that need to get to steppin' for the betterment of mankind. You learn from their bullshit and see fit to never let it happen again.

[Rob H.]

15. No

When my older brother was killed in a car accident 19 years ago, one of my aunts brought her alcoholic (later ex-)husband to my parents' house and he was already liquored up at 10 in the morning. I could smell it on him. He's since died from a combination of emphysema and a pickled liver and I'm not embarrassed to say that I was glad when that disrespectful old fuck finally kicked it. (I also found out a few years ago that he had drilled peepholes into the bathroom at his home so he could watch his stepdaughters--my cousins--shower, so on top of being a lifelong drunk he was a pervert, too.)

[IronLionZion]

22. you can be happy FOR your cousin, without being happy that someone is dead.

There is a difference, but only one of them will bother your conscience.

[Bzzzz]

24. No...

my husband's ex just passed away from breast cancer. She did nothing but cause us grief for 23 years. Restraining orders over and over the last 10 years. She divorced him. If there is a hell, I hope she's in it. :shrug:

[Gormy Cuss]

25. No, it's not wrong.

What's wrong in many people's minds is singing "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead" to express that emotion because it can be hurtful to those who aren't glad about his passing. There's no need to pretend that you cared about him either -- silence is better in that regard. What does come through is you do care about your cousin and her sons and you could offer condolences to them without sharing your feelings about him.


Been there with a true scum of the earth relative and IMHO it's better to keep my own feelings out of it if there's the slightest chance that I could increase someone else's grief.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. i was glad when my evil grandmother died and also when reagan died and falwell

so i say its fine. its not like you killed them.

if you want to be missed you should do good while living

[trof]

27. Moderate gloating is allowed.

According to Miss Manners.
But throwing a 'I'm So Glad Charlie's Dead' kegger would be in poor taste.
;-)

[cordelia]

28. No. . .

My late dad said that just because some son-of-a-bitch dies doesn't change the fact that he was an asshole while was alive.

Just don't gloat too much; that would appear unseemly.

[av8rdave]

29. There are certain, out of the bell curve cases, where I don't think so

Some people are so evil that their passing can only be good for humanity. A certain former CEO of a couple of major airlines, a figure or two in politics....people I wouldn't mourn very sincerely when they go west.

[SKKY]

35. Hey Dave, got a question for you...

...have you ever had any of those "pucker up" moments like that one we all just saw in Germany? Any advice you can offer to someone who is absolutely terrified of flying?

[av8rdave]

40. Believe it or not, not in the airline business.....but in the military, yes

OK, once in the airline business, but that was a peculiar set of circumstances that couldn't happen today.

As far as the fear of flying goes, I'm not sure what to say. The psychologists say that for most people it's due to a sense of no control over your circumstances....and that's hard to overcome with all the usual rational arguments (and it's very understandable, btw).

If it's any help at all...I spend a lot of time riding on flights to and from work, as well as scheduled parts of trips where I'm a passenger (doing it tomorrow morning, in fact). I sleep well on those flights. I'm familiar with the training and qualifications of our crews, and I feel there is no reason to worry.

Hope that helps in some way!

[mondo joe]

30. No. Death happens to everyone. I think it's wrong to be glad someone is in pain or is suffering,

but I don't think it's wrong to be glad that someone is gone.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. perfectly stated. thanks.

[Mojambo]

32. Nope. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

33. Yes.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

39. My mom's with you.

She is weird about death. Everyone becomes a saint when they die and all the bad stuff she did to those people when they were alive suddenly never happened. As much tragedy as we've had in our family, you'd think she'd have learned it's a part of life and isn't necessarily the end of the world, especially when that person was a dick or really really old.
Duckie

[LostinVA]

50. You can not be glad someone is dead and still realize they were no saint

It's not all black and white.

[crim son]

36. I don't think so, though you might not want to share your feelings

with all the relatives. I was glad when my FIL died from prostate cancer because of his suffering, because of the impact his dying had on the family, and because he was a SOB when well, really an incomparable asshole.

Hell, it's been fourteen years and now that I think of it, I'm still glad he's dead. I think your feelings are normal, Duckie, and the fact that you ask the question makes you thoughtful as well.

[Omphaloskepsis]

37. I am glad that my dad is dead and I have slept well for 20 years.

Don't dance or piss on his grave and you should be OK.

[Tektonik]

42. Yes

Be glad your cousin does not have to deal with him any longer, but that son lost his father. There are very, very few situations where I'd actually be glad someone died.

[MnFats]

44. no, no, but this is dangerous ground....

a friend of mine from Ethiopia lived there when the bloody war with Eretria was going on.
she was sexually abused by her father and her brother.
a deeply religious woman, she prayed for it to end and as things got worse she prayed they would die and end it that way.
within days, soldiers came to their home and took her brother and father away....their bodies were found a few days after that.
learning of the deaths she was convinced that god had taken her at her word and committed murder on her behalf.
Crushed by guilt, she felt she was doomed to hell in the afterlife.
it took years of strong counseling to convince her it wasn't her fault..even so, she sometimes slips back into believing it's so.


i don't know why I felt compelled to relate that ... forgive me if I've only made things worse...

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

45. Not at all.

Given how he treated them, you have a right to feel relieved/happy. I'm struggling with the same feelings right now, with my terminally ill MIL (who I can't stand).

[Biscottiii]

46. I think "Relief" would probably be a more apt description.

One of my favorite lines from "Fiddler on the Roof" went something like:

"Even a poor tailer is entitled to SOME happiness."

[youthere]

52. I don't know about " glad" but I've been "not sorry" someone is gone.

I don't think I've ever been glad someone died, but there were a couple I felt no sadness for their passing.

[unpossibles]

53. not really

There are plenty of people whom I would not necessarily wish were dead, but who once they die I won't shed a tear.

[SPKrazy]

54. You've DONE nothing to feel guilty over

feelings are just that, feelings

actions are what people feel guilt or non-guilt over

:hug:

[Deep13]

55. Would you still feel glad if there were something wrong with it?

It is not as if you can just stop feeling that way if you decide it is wrong. I agree with the other posters. Feelings are never right or wrong, they just are.

[Westegg]

61. Perfectly human response. But don't dwell on it...

...From the sound of it, your cousin was in bondage and now she is free. That is a good thing, and you feel that very strongly. THIS is what you are responding to-- the fact that she is free now. That it took a death to accomplish that is unfortunate. And realize, too, that she might have (probably has) much more complicated feelings about it than you can comprehend, as it WAS her husband. That is okay too. Don't try to impose your feelings or thoughts on her. Death as a solution is drastic, but I guess that sometimes it's the only way. I sense from your post that you aren't about to dance on anyone's grave. Good for you. It's done, your cousin is free. Let it end there, is my suggestion. Move on to a better, brighter future.

[bookworm65t]

64. you're OK

I felt that way about Mobutu Sesko of COngo, who ruined his country for 30 years. There are many world and national figures I feel the same way.

On a personal level, I wouldn't mind seeing an old boss and my high school bully leave this earth.

[minnesota_liberal]

65. Only if the rat poison is traced back to you

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

66. No...

:hug:
It's not like you were wishing harm to befall him. Besides, it sounds as if he was suffering in the end. Now he will not suffer.

[ileus]

67. not at all.

some people are better off dead...

[Pacifist Patriot]

68. Are you glad he died or relieved for your cousin? Or both?

Death usually evokes a range of emotion that can sometimes be conflicting. I don't see anything unusual about feeling compassion for someone who passed away of a terrible disease while feeling relief if his presence was an unhealthy one in someone's life whom you care about. At the same time being sad for his sons who have lost their father but happy his wife will have a new lease on life.

I think it's inappropriate to celebrate someone's death when others are grieving the loss, but that doesn't sound like what you are talking about at all. Your feelings are your feelings. No wrong or right applies here. I would say that any moral implications rest on what words and deeds you choose based on those feelings. Does that make any sense?