Over the years, dog owners have convinced me that dogs are smarter than cats.

[Buzz Clik]

Until the past year, I'd never owned a dog. I had shared quarters with a bunch of dogs, but never owned one. I'm strictly a cat person.

The cat vs dog intelligence discussion has always left me uninterested, but the dog owner always seem to have the more compelling argument, so I've accepted that maybe dogs are smarter than cats. I simply prefer cats. No problem there.

But then we got a dog. Yes, dogs can be trained to do certain things and respond to some commands. But are dogs smart? Err. Well.

I filled the bird feed this morning with sunflower seeds. It's 9 degrees outside, and we have attracted a lot of birds, so I feel obligated to keep it filled at this time of year. I fill the feeder outside on the deck, and I'm clumsy in my gloves and spilled some seed on the deck. As I came back in the house, the dog blasted past me and dashed onto the deck. He immediately began lapping up the sunflowers seeds and swallowing them without chewing. That's just stupid. Those seeds will pass straight through him -- perhaps painfully. Not smart. Not good instincts. And he pulls stuff like this all the time.

Whatever. I didn't agree to this animal because I needed an intellectual companion. But, please -- spare me the "dogs are smarter than cats" routine. At best, they are equally stupid.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

1. That dog was selflessly protecting you from slipping on those seeds the next

time you go out on the deck. He cleaned up the hazard in the only way he was able.
A cat would just sit and look at the seeds, thinking 'Yessss. Bait' and to hell with your safety.
;)

[stuntcat]

2. most cats are users

Cats have learned to get what they can from us but they could live without us too.
Maybe dogs need us more, sometimes just to keep them from eating stuff that'll kill them.

This is the kind of thread where you could post a picture of your dog!!!! ;-) ;-) ;-)

[Buzz Clik]

5. Users? Hm. Well, ok.

We have a pretty decent understanding. I guess he uses me, but he's so low maintenance that I don't notice.

Here's the dog:

[theredpen]

7. Corgis are waaaay smarter than cats, dude

Dogs have much more complex social behaviors than cats — they are pack animals.

In humans, groupthink is a sign of a weak mind and conformity a sign of a weak spirit, but in dogs it's how they survive. Small cats are independent because they lack the capabilities required for complex interdependence. Cats have the highest brain-to-body weight ratio, so their small brains are pretty tightly packs with high-grade hardware; this makes them highly intelligent for their size.

Corgis will actually herd children — keeping them out of areas where the adults have made it clear that they should not go. Cats can't even herd themselves.

[mondo joe]

12. I rather think it's not that cats lack the ability for complex interdependence

as they never evolved it because they had a different evolutionary strategy.

And both strategies worked out pretty well.

[theredpen]

15. Why would you evolve a trait you don't need?

Yes, cats do not need complex social behavior to survive... so why would you assume that they are capable of it? Evolution doesn't tend to produce creatures with well-developed trails that are of no environmental use.

[mondo joe]

19. Hm, we may be saying the same thing.

Cats and dogs evolved different traits to fill different niches.

I just don't see the one as making the dog smarter - it's just a different route.

[IzaSparrow]

42. I think you should consider...

exaptations and genetic drift for your evolutionary argument.

[theredpen]

47. Evidence please? (nt)

[IzaSparrow]

62. ...

An example of an exaptation are vestigial organs, e.g. the human appendix.

An example of genetic drift is better but into theoretical terms. GD is going to be when a current population does not conform to what is predicted from an initial population (with variation) based on selective forces would cause the population structure to be in that niche. An example of GD would be mitochondrial Eve.

I don't know how much work has been done on Felis silvestris catus social structure with considerations to exaptations and genetic drift.

[theredpen]

68. I didn't mean evidence that exaptations exist

I meant evidence that there is any vestigial social behavior that cats have, but don't exhibit.

If there were, then cats would be likely to behave like dogs when domesticated, but they don't.

BTW, the idea that things are vestigial is falling out of favor. Even the appendix may actually have a purpose. Recent discoveries suggest that it serves to maintain a stock of digestive-track flora and fauna.

[IzaSparrow]

73. While I've heard that

all things vestigial is falling out of favor, that major push is being done by current trait utility-types.

The appendix/cecum has a far less impressive function in humans than it does in other non-ruminant herbivorous mammals.

Some cat species are more solitary in lifestyle (e.g. jaguars) while others are more gregarious (e.g. lions). However, in what I remember from undergrad and personal knowledge, cats aren't very "social."

So I quickly refer to wikipedia to find the origins of the house cat, and it claims the desert cat was the wild ancestor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felis_silvestris_lybica

A male's territory overlaps with a few female territories, and the females defend against intruders. This somewhat resembles the social structure of a lion's pride, but there doesn't seem to be evidence for desert cats having the structured hunt which lionesses engage.

I don't really know where I'm going with this. I'm afraid I lost my train of thought. haha

Here's an article I found however:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010915/bob10.asp

Get back to me, maybe I'll remember where I was going :shrug:

[badgerpup]

51. They can adapt though...

Barn cat colonies, feral cat colonies...and sometimes, if a lot of mama cats have kittens at the same time, they'll nurse the other cats' kittens as well as their own.

One of the no-kill shelters here has about 40 cats loose in a common room. They all socialize together and get along quite well.
Those cats are really good at adjusting to multi-cat households when adopted.

Even multi-cat households...but that's a case-by-case scenario. Sometimes the cats just reach a detente and agree to ignore each other, and sometimes you get bestest buddies...and everything in-between.

I had four cats, but they sort of divided themselves into two pairs. Riktor and Esme are best buds; their bond is with each other. Same with MacFeegle and Wimsey...but now that MacFeegle is gone, the other two seem to be paying more attention to Wimsey (playing with him, grooming him, sleeping snuggled up with him); helping him deal with his loss.
I gots good kitties, I do...

[Buzz Clik]

14. Yes, dogs have interesting instincts and can be trained.

Our Corgi will do anything for food, as long as you have the food right there right now.

We got the dog when it was three months old. The first member of the family to train the dog was the cat. Long before we housebroke the dog, the cat had instructed the dog on proper cat/dog protocols.

The rest -- well, ants and bees live together as do some fish. And dolphins and whales and wolves. It's just the way they're programmed.

[stuntcat]

28. well just mine, I guess

All my cats have gotten food & shelter & vet care from me while they seemed to still believe they were really Free :patriot: just happened to live in the same house with me.

[femmocrat]

43. That is a beautiful corgi!

I have two Pembrokes .... and they are extremely smart. I can see them reason, decide, anticipate, problem-solve, and communicate in so many ways. I really believe that if you spend more time with your dogs, the intellectual stimulation improves their "intelligence". Our dogs live in the house and have attended classes since puppy kindergarten. They amaze me sometimes at how much they can do! I know they aren't little furry people, but at times they seem more clever than some people I meet!

BTW.... I also have a cat who doesn't impress me in the least. ;)

[Buzz Clik]

61. The dog is always nearby when I do my daughter's flashcards. He never gives the right answer.

Stupid dog.

[barb162]

48. That's why they're smarter than dogs

And us.

[Richardo]

3. 1) Dogs are smart but insane.

2) As for the food, Dave Barry explained it best: "A dog will eat anything as soon as it hits the floor on the theory that if it turns out not to be food, you can always throw it up later."

[Buzz Clik]

4. Oh, geez. Dog puke.

gag.

[redqueen]

8. Hey, at least they might eat it themselves,

sparing you the trouble of cleaning it up. :)

Not like cats with the leaving hairballs around for you... but definitely very gross!

[mondo joe]

29. On the other hand...

My cats can live vitrually without me for days at a time, with just a refresher of water and food.

The dog is so... so.... needy.

(Editorial note: This reflects my issues with having a dog more than my actual thoughts on dog intelligence.)

[redqueen]

32. Yes... cats are much easier to care for.

I wish dogs were more independent... I want one so bad, but live far away from work. *sigh*

My ex mother in law has three young cats she'd LOVE for me to take... but they claw the furniture, and stink up the house... they're gorgeous and friendly and sweet... but the hair, and the litter box...

Hah, can you tell I'm conflicted? And lonely?

[av8rdave]

6. I've had lots of both - dogs and cats. I believe

That cats are the smarter ones. However, I never felt they were as affectionate pets as dogs for that very reason (I have had exceptions to that, btw). They are fiercely independent, and take pride in being able to care for themselves. Dogs are more emotionally "in tune" with people, and become emotionally dependent. I think that's why they are so eager to please.

I've come to love both dogs and cats. Alas, my spouse is severely allergic to cats, so when my last one passed (had him before the wife) I never adopted another. I do miss them.

Because of her allergies, we had to be careful about which breed of dog to get. Fortunately, there are hypoallergenic ones out there.

[redqueen]

9. On a serious note... sorry but no...

how many times do cats save people's lives? I'm not talking about rescue animals, but family pets who alert their pack members to danger... or even call 911.

[pokerfan]

49. Couple of years ago

A woman had her barn catch on fire. It was late evening and she was busy on the computer. Her dog could see the fire from a window and went fucking nuts. When she ignored him, he gave her a little nip on the leg to get her attention.

A cat would've probably just licked himself.

[redqueen]

56. Hahahahaha...

while thinking evil thoughts? ;)

http://www.pawsperouspets.com/humor/catdiary.shtml

[EstimatedProphet]

10. Dogs will eat catshit. Cats don't eat dogshit. Cats are smarter. QED

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. seconded with all my seconding might.

:thumbsup:

[puerco-bellies]

54. Ding, Ding, Ding,.. We have a winner!!!

I've had both and I have been amazed at the depth of a cat's personality and surprising social behaviors. Dogs are intelligent, but cats are intellectuals in comparison. I think people confuse the ability to train with basic intelligence.

[mondo joe]

11. Our neighbor dog ate a bag of flour. Not smart. Though in truth I think

cats and dogs are just smart in different ways, befitting their own evolutionary path.

[Buzz Clik]

18. That's the way I see it. All the rest is like political infighting.

No definitive answers.

[mondo joe]

22. Yes - not much point in arguing that one species is smarter because it does

something it evolved to do, whereas another animal didn't.

Or maybe it depends on what one means by "smart". If one means "is adept at functioning as its species evolved to do" then all species are equally smart - though individuals within the species vary.

[redqueen]

33. Ah, but can't we just argue for arguin's sake?

:7

[Arugula Latte]

13. They have different kinds of intelligences.

I'll take cats over dogs any day. I find a lot of dogs ... well ... annoying. :hide:

[Rob H.]

17. Any more room behind that wall?

I have friends with dogs and the dogs' neediness gets on my nerves. Give me the snootiness of an average housecat any day. :P

[Arugula Latte]

20. Lol!

But, you know, my cats are all super affectionate. I don't find them snooty at all. They snuggle up to me and purr ... The purring alone makes them worth their weight in gold and cat food. :loveya:

[Rob H.]

26. My family has had cats my whole life

so I'm with you on the whole purring thing--there are few things nicer after a bad day than coming home to a purring kitty. :) My parents' cats are definitely cuddlers, too. One of them will even sleep under the covers next you in the winter.

Right now I'm in an apartment and currently catless, though. I miss having one around. :(

[mondo joe]

21. Me too. After a lifetime of cats I adopted a dog.

Dumbest thing I ever did.

[Arugula Latte]

24. Oh no...

I feel for ya. :)

[mondo joe]

27. I feel for me too.

He's a REALLY good dog. I'm just not liking the job.

[Orsino]

16. There are all sorts of smarts.

Dogs are more geared toward meshing their lives with ours, and may be better at reading our emotions. Cats are better, I think, at outsmarting us to get what they want. }(

[SOteric]

25. I've had both a smart dog and a smart cat.

They're differently smart, but neither one of them was a fuzzy little Einstein. They've got different personalities but both are good, loyal, sweet little companions.

I adored my dog and I adore my cat. In the end, what does a contest prove in this matter?

[GaYellowDawg]

30. Cats are little furry Republicans.

I just said that so you'd open the post. :evilgrin:

I've lived with both, and what I've noticed is that there's a much greater range between dumb and smart dogs than there is between dumb and smart cats. Some dogs can be smarter than any cat, but some dogs can be a hell of a lot dumber than any cat, too.

Yeah, dogs eat shit sometimes. So do lots of animals. Any rabbit owner knows what I mean. Cats eat some pretty disgusting things, too. I've seen more than one cat slurping up mouse entrails, which are just shit with a casing.

I've seen both dogs and cats go into "freak out" modes. With dogs, it's usually some kind of really unexpected response like with the seeds. With cats, it's more regular - they just have these strange moods. Cat owners, you know the ones - where they sort of bounce into the room with that wild look in their eyes, or dash from room to room for no particular reason and all of a sudden freeze. If you startle them, they'll take off and run into a wall or something.

Once you learn to "speak" both dog and cat, either can be wonderful. It's just that once most people learn "cat," they expect dogs to respond to it and don't really want to learn "dog." Same thing the other way around. Doesn't work well either way. Both have different challenges.

I prefer dogs for 3 reasons. 1) I prefer the occasional shit on the carpet to regularly emptying out a litter box; 2) I'm allergic to cats; 3) dogs will love you on your schedule, cats will love you on theirs.

[Buzz Clik]

31. Great post.

I agree with all of it. I'm enjoying the dog -- even when I marvel at the unthinkable behavior. ]

My preference for cats: 1) he is demanding only when he is completely out of food; 2) he accepts my affection whenever I feel like dishing it out, and he can live without it; 3) the only zero maintenance pet. I can toss the cat out or leave him in the house with food for days with no negative impact. I can't imagine leaving a dog alone for more than my working hours.

[bamademo]

37. Dogs and Cats see light on a spectrum we can't....

...that might explain why they seem insane. They also hear things we can't. I just love my cats and dogs equally and know that they know things I don't. We're all mystical creatures. Enjoy the differences.

[GaYellowDawg]

38. No, they don't.

They both see the same spectrum as we do, but not the same color range. They see better in the dark because they've got a reflective membrane called a tapetum. They do hear and smell things we can't. I think they just freak sometimes.

[bamademo]

39. According to this, yes they do

http://chetday.com/catseyes.htm

[GaYellowDawg]

46. No, and not according to that website, either.

According to that website, cats have more rods. As the site said, rods are used for nighttime viewing. They do not perceive color well, which is why it's harder to distinguish colors at night. Cats can detect motion much better than we can, and they can see at night much better, because they have more rods, their pupils dilate much wider, and they have a tapetum.

These attributes, however, do not allow them to see higher or lower into the electromagnetic spectrum than humans. Cats do not see ultraviolet (as some raptors do; it's a fascinating adaptation) or infrared. Therefore, they do not see on a spectrum that humans can't. You seem to be confusing light spectrum with light intensity.

[zanne]

34. Cats can learn--they just decide not to. nt

[GaYellowDawg]

36. Oh my gosh, they ARE Republicans!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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[The Velveteen Ocelot]

45. No, they aren't --

[mondo joe]

57. Awesome. Couldn't agree more.

:-)

[zanne]

60. That is funny as hell. nt

[Buzz Clik]

66. I love the "Hannity and Colmes" and "halucinogenic herbs" frames!

[unpossibles]

35. all I know is, none of my cats think cat poop is a yummy treat.

therefore, cats are smarter, although dogs can be more useful and easily trained. In my experience - I've had a LOT of dogs throughout my life, most of them rescues and strays - the smarter dogs can sometimes be harder to train than the dumber ones. Again: points to the cat.

[bamademo]

40. I love them both...they are different creatures

They require different a different response. Silly people, haven't you learned that yet? :-)

Dogs and cats living together!!

[Buzz Clik]

41. Wise words.

[ileus]

44. that's why you have to yell at them to shut to hell up all the time.

[chknltl]

50. Ya but...

How fast could a kitty clean up a spilled TV Dinner off of the kitchen floor? Dogs may not be smarter than cats but they can be very handy. (True story, happened to me this very morning and my dog Karma loved all of it...)

[Buzz Clik]

58. I have a problem with people who use dogs for dishwashers.

I had many roommates with dogs. They would put their plate on the floor for the dog after dinner, and let the dog lick it clean. As I would wash the dishes (by hand, back in the old days), I always pass my fingers across each dish under the soapy water to feel for residual stuff. The dog-licked dishes had a slimy residue that required twice as much scrubbing to clean off. Dog slobber on my "clean" dishes. :scared:

[mondo joe]

63. Oh dear - our dog always gives a Lick Cycle as we load dishes into the dishwasher.

Of course the dishes are then washed by umptymillion degree hot water.

[chknltl]

70. I suspect that is as the wise inventors of the dishwasher intended.

A device that cleans even dog-licked dishes back into shape.

[mondo joe]

71. Otherwise why would the dishes load at the perfect dog-lick level?

[chknltl]

64. Yep! That is why we wash doggie's waterbowl at least twice a week

Same with her food bowl. I do not want to know what that slime is but I do indeed know about it. I treated my cat's bowls the same way when I had kittys. I may not be the cleanest hippie on the block and my home is decorated post modern male divorcee, (not to be confused with post modern college male although there may be a pizza box laying around), but I love my dog more than enough to keep her food and water bowls clean ALWAYS. I Do let Karma, (my dog) "lick the plate" for some things but those things come out of the microwave with their own throw away bowl or container. Rarely does she get access to my dishes. (Rarely do I use my dishes either...they tend to stay clean that way and like I said, those microwavables come with their own plastic throwaway.)

[Buzz Clik]

65. I'm considering cross-posting this response in the Energy/Environment forum ...

... and let them have their way with you. :evilgrin:

I, too, wash the dog dish at least twice per week, and if the dog manages to make a hit on the cat food bowl, then I wash the cat's bowl before I make him eat from it. I doubt the cat cares one way or another, but the thought of eating after a dog gives me the willies.

[chknltl]

69. That is one rarely discussed difference between cats and dogs.

Dogs seem to love cat food...perhaps they even like it better than dog food. Cats on the other hand seem to have no interest whatever in dog food.

Please don't narc me out to those boys in the energy forum. I would starve within a week without my microwave-ables! Would you really want to see this starving hippie out foraging for food at the local Burger King? I am bad enough as it is with my caffeine addiction brought about by far to many Jamoca/Cappuccino Blasts from the nearby Baskin and Robbins....adding Taco Bell to that list would be....well I just don't want to think such thoughts. Yep, TV Dinners are where I am at these days. Besides, I hate doing dishes and like I said, they come with their own dishes, ones I can allow my dog Karma to sample before throwing 'em away.

[JCMach1]

52. Depends on the dog or cat

I have had stupid animals and smart ones...

Usually the stupid ones make up for it in cuteness... usually. What other animal can give you that Rainman-look.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

53. They're both smarter than us...

I don't think we're really qualified to say which of them is smarter.

[Buzz Clik]

59. My daughter performed an experiment: dog versus carrot.

She put a carrot on the table and commanded, "Stay!"

She gave the same order to the dog.

The carrot won every time. She's convinced the carrot is far more trainable than the dog.

[unpossibles]

67. yeah, it's not like they have to go to work and come home and feed us

while we sleep all day.

[petronius]

55. My friend's dog came into our house and ate our cat's poop from the litter box.

Cats - 1, dogs - 0

[Vinca]

72. Cats are definitely smarter. We only think we own them.

The fact is, they own us. They train us well, too.