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I am so fucking mad at my daughter I could kill her.

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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:06 PM
Original message
I am so fucking mad at my daughter I could kill her.
She can NEVER be on time for ANYTHING. It took her THREE hours to find something to wear tonight and get dressed. We were supposed to go, on our last night together, before I have to leave town and the state for a LONG time (work), and she was so late that the fucking restaurant that we had planned to go to was CLOSED. So, we just didn't go out to eat at ALL. Ain't that fucking superlative!

AND she is late EVERYDAY to work. AND SHE WORKS FOR ME! AND it's affecting her work! I am SICK, SICK, SICK of it!
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Tektonik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fire her. Time for some tough love.
Anyways have a good road trip. :hi:
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sounds like she doesn't want to work for you, but won't quit.
Fire her like she wants you to.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. She makes a TON of money.
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 10:12 PM by Th1onein
This is not the kind of job you just let go of. You get hooked on the money. But she has never been on time for anything in her life. I am SICK of putting up with it in my business, though. Invoices aren't turned in on time. Payroll isn't in on time. It holds EVERYBODY up.

And, now, she's can't even make dinner in time so that the fucking restaurant doesn't close down on us. It is the HEIGHT of rudeness to make everyone else wait on you.

And, when I fire her? I end up paying her fucking bills.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. why would you end up paying her bills? n/t
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Because I can't stand to see her go without.
My life has been very hard. I don't want my daughter's to be hard. And, I know all about the tough love crap, but the reality is that, without certain things, like a car, etc., you don't have a chance in this world, no matter how hard you try.

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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
38. I hate to say it.. but you're totally enabeling her.
How old is she? What motivation does she have for being on time? What reprocussions does she face for being late to work, turning things in, etc?

It sounds like she's totally taking advantage of you - the "boss", because she KNOWS you won't do anything about it. How do your other employees feel about this? I can imagine if their deadlines are missed because the boss's daughter gets away with always being late - that they can't like that to much, and it causes resentment.

The truth of the matter is, that she won't grow up until you force her to. If you pay for her bills, her car, and allow her to be late then she will do this.. FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. I know many 35 year old friends who live in $400 apartments, drive 20 year old cars that break down, and still go back to mom & dad for gas money on the weekends. 2 of them have now had kids, and their parents are supporting those kids, because "it's not the kids fault"... and they never told their own children "NO" so they feel it's their own fault.

The best thing you can do for your daughter is to stop everything you're doing and let her grow up. By not doing that, you're being selfish.. because you're just doing what is easiest for YOU.. which is to continue on the same path.

And I know all of this because at age 22, my mom finally kicked me out of the house (no job, wasn't going to school) and let me land flat on my face. Now at age 30 I'm married, 2 kids, very successful job, etc. If my mom would have let me.. i'd still be living at home having her do the laundry and pay my car payment and rent. I didn't talk to her for almost 2 years, and now I talk to her almost every day. She did the hardest thing in the world without knowing if i'd ever forgive her.. but I did.

Good Luck!
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
54. I know that you only want to make life easier for your daughter than
it was for you, but you aren't doing her any favors by not making her grow up and face the responsibilities of her actions. She will not find another employer who would put up with these habits and you are actually doing her a disservice by putting up with them yourself. I don't mean to suddenly pull the rug out from under her, but you need to gradually shift her to being accountable for her actions.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
40. Betcha she annoys the piss out of the other employees, who would
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 09:14 AM by raccoon
in all probability NEVER get away with that kind of stuff.

I agree with the poster who said you're enabling her.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. wow hire me then!
I promise to show up on time, especially for fancy dinners! :evilgrin:
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's pretty passive-aggressive on her part.
She seems to be angry with you about something, but can't bring herself to say anything (or perhaps even admit it to herself), so she compensates by punishing you a little bit every day. And today was her chance to punish you a lot. It might be something you want to find out about; this kind of stuff can fester for a lifetime.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't buy the psychological explanations.
I used to be a "always late" person myself. And, I am now always on time. I am always on time, because it is IMPORTANT to be on time. In life. In business. But what can I do, what can SHE do, to make herself more prompt? I don't even remember what I did, or how I turned it around; I just know that it was important enough to me to do it.

AND, it's one thing to be a few minutes late. It's another to be HOURS late.
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. A few minutes late is an eccentricity, hours late is a message.
Buy or don't buy the "psychological explanations," it's up to you. But expecting someone to just "snap out of" a behavior without addressing the causes is a crap shoot. With very bad odds.
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Kutara is on to something...
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 10:42 PM by theredpen
Perhaps Kutara's specific conclusion is not correct, but there's definitely something pathological here. It is possible, however, that it's not passive aggression.

Another possible explanation would be that your daughter is gripped with fear and low self-esteem (I mean, how common is THAT?!). Three hours to get ready for your special dinner? Perhaps, deep down inside she didn't think she'd ever be good enough for you. You obviously love your daughter with all her imperfections, but your message is getting drowned out by her message of, "I'll never make the cut." The fact that you got angry at her "failure" just compounds things (this is not your fault, you certainly didn't mean to send that message).

You are probably someone with high standards; you apply them to yourself and you expect others to meet them. You probably are also intuitive enough to know what expectations are reasonable and what aren't and you make sure not to place unreasonable expectations on others even ones you'd place on yourself. Your daughter may need more affirmations than you naturally give (perhaps you think that doing well is its own reward, but some people need to be told).

I'm making a lot of guesses here, so feel free to tell me that I missed the mark as well.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I think it's something to do with her procrastination.
It's not just me that she's late with. It's reports, spreadsheets, everything, for our clients, as well.

I used to be the same way, and I don't even remember how I put a stop to it in my own life, but I do know that I DID put a stop to it because it was IMPORTANT to me to be successful. I just don't understand why it's not important to her.

And, in our business, it can't continue.
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Well, if it's just good old procrastination...
The good old elbow grease will suffice. I still think that you should consider some emotionally-based alternative explanations.

It sounds, though, that you are in desperate need of a practical and effective solution to this, and you don't have time for interpersonal discovery. My sympathies with your frustrating situation.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. She really means well
And she is so very sorry when she screws things up.

But she does it again, and again, and again.

She can't go to bed at a decent time at night, so she wakes up late. I used to be the same way, for the same reasons.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
57. If she was really sorry, she wouldn't keep doing it again and again.
I don't mean to pick a fight here, but are you using your old behavior to justify hers today? If she won't grow up on her own, you may have to do something to make her grow up. Really, it will be for her own good.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
91. I'm an owl, maybe she is
There's no point in my trying to get to bed much before 2 a.m. or I'm up again at 4 a.m.

I have to get up at 7 a.m. to get to work on time but I've got double alarm-clocks and a noisy coffee maker to rouse me.

I've lived on 4 hours sleep for as long as I can remember. Most people seem to need more. When I do get more by some fluke, I'm useless for the rest of the day.

If she is an owl and needs more than 4 hours, you may have to adapt her work schedule to run late perhaps doing the accounting etc. after regular work hours.

If she's just staying up late 'cause that's when the good shows are on, get a VCR or DVR.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
43. Being three hours late isn't procrastination
She didn't find something else to do for two hours and then finally decide to get ready.

I'm not sure what it is, but it isn't procrastination.
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. That's a real possibility.
Procrastination can be a symptom of a lot of things, including depression, OCD, perfectionism, and anxiety. Procrastinators don't start things because they "know" they'll never get it right. They delay going to bed because they know that sleeping will bring on the next day of unmeetable challenges that much more quickly. They get up late to delay those challenges a bit longer. They submit work late to delay the criticism they know will inevitably come.

Life for procrastinators can be agony. Their entire existence is about trying to delay failure.
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Flaxbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. yeah, there is something else going on
-- sounds like some deep-seated anger. I'm so sorry she ruined your dinner together. Could she think she can get away with it b/c she's your daughter and no one at work will care or think anything of it?

And - tell her she's got one month to find a new job because she's fired, or will be if she doesn't change her work habits. And you WILL NOT pay her bills...
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hope this is just a phase...
...but yeah, I can relate.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Just don't leave her a voice mail.
:hi:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. You need to calm down
Seriously. You are not behaving well.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Oh, thank you so much!
That really does SOOOO much good, at this point.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It's your daughter
Visualize her at two years old.

Then, stop being such an asshole.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You have no need to call me an asshole.
This is NOT what this forum is about, buddy. And THAT is not appropriate behavior.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. You're right. I'm wrong
My apologies.
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Get her in touch with the real world
At my job if I am very late more than 5 times in a year and it's my fault I'm outta there. If I have three unexcused absenses in a year I'm outta there.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hmmmm. Does she abuse drugs or alcohol?
Could she be clinically depressed? Does she have some other psychological disorder that would prevent her from from sticking to a schedule? What's your relationship like? Why wouldn't she want to do decent work for you/spend time with you? Ever read a book called "The Myth of Laziness"?

Sounds like there are a lot of things wrong with your situation, but your daughter's behavior is only one of them.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. She is a chronic procrastinator
CHRONIC.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. You may not like the psychological explanations but look at it as it is
She knew you were waiting and she did not bother to stop you from being upset, anxious, angry. She knew that there was a good chance that the restaurant would be closed by the time you got there.

So basically she fucked up your evening and knew she was doing it. I'd say that she is pissed. And I'm sure you told her that when she is late to work it screws everything up yet she keeps doing it. That sounds pissed to me also.

She is also getting something from this type of behavior. What is it?

Relationships between mother and daughter are volitile. Just ask my 75 year old mother about her 50 year old daughter. :P

Here is a hug for you. :hug: I hope you feel better.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Well, you can call it psychological, but I call it procrastination
My whole damned family is like this. Undependable.

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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. Do you rescue fellow family members?
Do you compensate for their poor performance?

It sounds like there are no consequences for undependability for them, or your daughter.

I ended up leaving a romantic relationship over this very issue, and I know a couple of other people who have as well. Also, it has ended friendships. Not over a few minutes late, but chronically late by hours. I don't put up with it, it is abusive to me. I've been in your "closed restaurant" situation a couple of times, too.

If she is staying up late, she is doing it to herself.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
69. Did you not mold your daughter?
Do you not share some blame in her becoming a procrastinator?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. Some people are just like that.
My mother is ALWAYS late. I mean, her own wedding was an hour late because she forgot to buy pantyhose and had to run to the drug store. She's never on time.

I just plan for it and don't let it get to me, and I try really hard to avoid making plans with her that rely on her being on time. But if I let it bother me anymore I'd have to kill her, and I like her, so I just deal with that being a part of who she is.

In the long run, acceptance will be easier for you. You can't make her change.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. My best friend was much like The1onein's daughter. Or your mother
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 11:23 PM by truedelphi
And like you say, you have to realize you simply cannot do things that depend on time.

Meet for a movie. Not a chance. Plan on meeting at a restaurant. Nope. Not unless I wanted to sit at a booth starving myself, hoping she'd show before the place closed.

I finally realized that what worked was to invite her to my house on a day when I would be home doing something productive. Then I'd stop being productive when she arrived. Then we'd have a lunch I made and visit.

Nothing else worked at all.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I go to Mom's on a day she'll be home for a while.
If we're going someplace, I make sure to get there early enough that I can visit with my stepdad while she gets ready.

In her case she's always run late, but her medical issues make it worse, because sometimes she has a very low energy level and a hard time getting going, so I try to be understanding.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. One of my SIL's is like that. Late to everything.
Including my mom's funeral and burial. Drives my family nuts because we are all punctual.

Have to overlook it because she has so many other good qualities and it's not worth the fight.
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. Do the two of you communicate well otherwise?



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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. We get along great.
We have a very close and loving relationship.

BUT, she doesn't like me "lecturing" her about work, so I let my business partner do that. He knows that the mother/daughter relationship is not conducive to good business. BUT, she will REALLY start screwing up if I just let her go hogwild. It seems like I am always griping at her, to be on time, and if I don't, the problem just gets really bad. Now, it seems that it's gotten to the point where she is procrastinating on other things, that are very necessary to our business, like the spreadsheets, the invoices, and the reports.

It's almost like she doesn't have any motivation to do the job, because it's a job where she can never outshine her mother. But, she won't go try anything else because she likes the money too much.
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Hmm.



Okay. So, how would you feel if she ever did "outshine" you in your business?



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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. I would be absolutely ecstatic.
I think she SHOULD outshine me. She's younger than me and she has more energy than I do. And she's every bit as intelligent as I am, if not more. She's had a problem with tardiness, though, at every job she's ever worked. Every single one. The only reason she has kept the ones she has is because she's such a good worker.

I don't want to beat her in the head (although it's tempting); I want her to STOP being late all of the time. It's messing up her career. And, in this instance, it messed up our one and only day together, and we won't have another day together for probably another year.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
52. well, she also may have no motivation
because, frankly, there are no consequences when things go wrong. not showing up for work on time is one thing (and for a valuable employee, in most positions, can be worked around) but if she's screwing up payroll? and there are no consequences? she's messing with her colleagues finances, and your reputation, and she knows nothing will happen. so why bother?
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Recovered Repug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
80. Put her under the control of your partner. Make it know that he'll
be the only one overseeing her work and handling disciplinary action.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. I have tried to do that.
And, to a degree, that works, but when she works directly under me, which is necessary, given our prospective positions in the company, it's a little hard to overlook the constant tardiness.

Our jobs require that we travel. Constantly. So, most of the time, she is in a totally different state, where we have no ability to tell if she is in the office on time or not. What we DO see, however, is that productivity goes down when she takes over an office. I've suspected that punctuality might be the problem, and recently, when she came to an office of mine, to take over from me, I've found that I was not only right, but that the problem was worse than I suspected.

Unless someone calls her office EVERY DAY, at nine AM, we are not going to know if she shows up on time or not. And, even if we could do that, my partner will NOT do it. And, when I do it, it's "blah, blah, blah, stop lecturing me, Mom."
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Chaplain's advise...
I don't think this is a case of passive agressive-ness (is that even a proper form of that term?) but I do think there is something psychological going on... which may or may not have an emotional component.

What I mean by that is this: how old is your daughter? If she is in her late teens to late twenties, there could be some other reasons that she is having this problem. I have ADD, and I have Lupus and Fibromyalgia, both of which cause me to have "mind fog". So not only am I scatter-brained and forgetful, but I have the fog so bad some days that I would forget my arms and legs if they weren't attached to my body!

I cope with this forgetfullness and mind fog by carrying around post-it notes and making notes of what I need to do, appointments I need to keep (and I always list the appointment as starting 10 or 15 minutes earlier than scheduled so I can make it on time!), groceries and supplies I need to buy, medicines I need to take, and other responsibilites I have. My computer monitor is framed with post-its of different sizes! (Right now there are 11 different post-its - I just counted 'em)

Another thing your daughter might be dealing with is depression. I haven't personally dealt with depression, but I have had close friends who have had it, and it really affected them - in all aspects of life. I wonder if your daughter is dealing with depression, and she is afraid to tell you how she is feeling and what she is experiencing because she may already feel like she is letting you down (what with her tardiness, her late reports and the budgets!) that she would really disappoint you or embarass you if she told you how she is feeling inside. She might be fearful that you would see her as weak for being depressed. One of my friends told me before she told her family that she was depressed because she was terrified that they wouldn't love her anymore, or disown her or think of her as weak if she did. I told her we could tell them together, and that worked.

I would suggest that maybe both of you should talk to her physician (I know you said you are going to be away for a while, but maybe she could go to the doc for some tests, and you, your daughter, and the doctor could have a conference call to discuss the results and what can possibly be up.) The doctor could help you to understand if this is an emotional problem or physical symptoms of something else... and once you find out what the cause is, I think the key thing your daughter needs to know is that she is supported and that she can learn to deal with her shortcomings in a constructive manner.

For me finding ways to work around forgetfulness, short attention span, and mind fog isn't easy, but once you do learn tricks, it makes your life so much better and easier, you won't want to go back. It is hard to learn that you have a disease, limitations, that you will never be "normal", and to tell others that you have a disease... but doing so is liberating. I think if your daughter makes a few simple changes (and don't expect change to happen overnight - I know that's prolly not what you wanna hear, but it's the truth!) her life will get a whole bunch better... but until that happens, as Yogi Berra would say, "If she doesn't change, then nothing changes".

I hope that helps... and I'm just a Chaplain, not like an expert, so your milage may vary! :hi:

:hippie:
skater pi
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Scarlett17 Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
81. Yeah--I thought ADD, too.
Extreme procrastination is a hallmark of ADD. My husband has ADD and time is not a concept that comes easily to him. People with ADD have a hard time dealing with time as a linear progression. Time is elastic to him and he often cannot understand why this is so frustrating to me. Dealing with it requires patience on my part (I know that he's not doing it on purpose) and an effort to use strategies like skater pi uses to reduce its impact on our daily lives. Check out this link and see if you think ADD might be the root of your frustrations with your daughter. Good luck.

http://www.adders.org/info7.htm
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. She's late because it sounds like you allow her to get
away with it.

She makes a lot of money (according to you) working for you, and she's knows there are no consequences for being late, other than perhaps having to listen to you chew her out.

She knows you're not going to fire her and she know you'd pay her bills even if you did.

Must be frustrating for you, but she knows she has it made, so why change? Right?

I'm just giving you an honest answer from an outside perspective.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. I've actually fired her about three times.
But she keeps on showing up to work anyway.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. If you fire her, and she keeps showing up - that's her problem..
You have seen office space the movie, right? If she's not on the payroll - you don't pay her. After she's fired, you stop paying her.

I know this is tough because it's your daughter, but if you fired any other employee and they showed up, what would you do? Call the police because a former employee was on the grounds? Certainly not pay them!

Let her work for a week after she's been fired, and then see she's not getting a paycheck. She'll quickly stop working for nothing.

Anyway.. i posted another post up top regarding my thoughts on the whole situation. Not trying to be harsh.. just trying to give YOU some tough love to give your daughter - the way my mom did for me.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. And you keep paying her, so why wouldn't she?
It sounds like there are zero consequences for her behavior.

She's never going to change until she figures out that her behavior is affecting other people. And, I'm sorry, but what she did to you with the dinner was extraordinarily rude. It seems to me that she needs a personal wake up call or she won't change.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. my daughter is constantly late also. drives me crazy as well.
my best friend--same way

in my line of work i can never be late. so i'm really good about that--and have been for years.

i'd give her fair warning and then tell her to get another job. wish her luck at keeping it. let her learn consequences.

you said you'd still pay her bills? does she live with you? tell her you won't be paying the bills--so either snap out of this and she can continue to work for you or to fend for herself because you're sick & tired of the disrespect she shows everyone.

i feel that it is a sign of disrespect--the constant lateness--that no one else's time matters except for theirs. and *they* are the priority (in their own minds)

drives me crazy.

sorry you had such a night.
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AirmensMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
46. My daughter was late once.
She was in first grade. I was a student at the time and had to leave the house very early. Harleydad worked at home and had to get the kids off to school. He got tired of nagging her to get ready, so he bought her a clock and told her what time she had to be ready to leave. She knew how to tell time and she knew how to dress herself, but she wanted to play. Well, the first day he stopped nagging her, she thought it was fun -- she could do whatever she wanted. Then she watched the bus drive past the house. She loved school, so she was pretty upset when she saw that she had missed the bus.

It was her turn to nag. She didn't understand that it takes buses longer to drive to school than it takes dads. She wanted to leave NOW so she wouldn't miss anything. He insisted on drinking his coffee first. After all, it was never in the agreement that he would stop everything to drive her to school. He did get her there on time, even before the bus arrived, but she fretted the whole way. She did not want to repeat that morning.

Harleydad believes that there's nothing like natural consequences to teach a lesson, as long as there's no danger involved. She learned to be on time and is punctual to this day.

Your daughter is older, so it might take longer. They say it takes laboratory mice 26 times. (I don't know if that's really accurate, but it's a saying we've always used.) One always hopes their kids are brighter than laboratory mice. And we do our kids no favors by bailing them out all the time. :shrug:

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Zoigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Agree with Harleydad, natural consequences

usually work well. But your last sentences is super ie "We do our kids no favors by bailing them out all the time." z
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Donk Yore Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
47. so. do what you feel..... n't
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. heh, sounds like my Mom and my SIL
when we tell them to be somewhere at a certain time, we bump the time up by an hour so that they get there on time.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
49. Remember changing her diapers?
Good times, huh.
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GardeningGal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
50. She needs to learn there are consequences for her actions.
It doesn't sound like she's ever had to learn them.
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BellaLuna Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
53. Be a mom.. not a 'buddy'
Fire her and quit taking her to dinner until she knocks that crap off. What she did was disrespectful and honestly - mean.

You've enabled and spoiled her and quit making excuses for it. You'll be really glad you did when she figures out you're not going to save her every step of the way.

Sounds harsh - but it's the truth.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
55. If I was late to work everyday, my ass would end up in the unemployment line. nt
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
56. This is what my friend does...
When he needs to be someplace at say 8 pm, he tells his girl friend that they have to be there at 7pm.

They always right on time. lol
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
58. Offer her some help
Offer to help her address the lateness problem. Get her some professional help, psychological, physical... whatever. Give it 6 months (or longer if the professional says so). Tell her if her habits don't change after that, it's out the door. Offer her another 2 months of financial help at that point and then that's it.

She ain't gonna change if you keep picking up the pieces. And you have to be alienating your other employees with this special treatment she receives.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
59. You sound stressed out
Get out of town and enjoy it

fire her later
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #59
90. I'm a workaholic.
Seriously. The only thing I really, really enjoy doing is working.

I know that's "sad," but it's the way it is for me, at this point in my life. And, for my goals in life right now, being a workaholic is both necessary and useful.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. The only thing you "really, really enjoy" is working....
And your daughter is throwing a monkeywrench into your work....

She wants your attention, and is being late to get it. Both you and she need to learn how to redirect your relationship.

Thing is, if I were another employee, and I saw the boss's daughter get away with that kind o'crap I'd be far less inclined to work productively for you--I'd lose respect. Fire her.


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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
60. Suggested Reading (for you) - "Co-Dependent No More," by Melody Beattie.
You cannot change her behavior, but you can change your own.
You keep giving her candy, and then you complain that she has cavities.

I believe you need to stop enabling her, which allows her to continue this disruptive behavior without consequences.
Real life is not like that.

Please, read this book. I think it will be tremendously helpful to you in seeing what your actions are doing
and empowering you to make changes.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
61. She's late because she's not being punished for it.
Not her fault.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
62. She's made you her bitch.
Plain and simple.

But you, my friend, don't have to play that role. If you want people to stop walking all over you, you gotta fucking stand up.

Fire her ass. Don't pay her. Don't invite her out until she cleans up her act.

It's that simple. Your obviously a hard worker, and you have to look at the circumstances in your life that made you that way. Did everybody hand you whatever you wanted? No. Did anybody give you a free ride? No. That's because difficulties build character. The last thing you need to do is raise a George W. Bush.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
63. Next time (providing you don't kill her), tell her a time WAY earlier than the real one.
That is, if you aren't prepared simply to leave whenever she's late.

As for work: DOCK HER PAY. Easy-peasy!

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
64. I would've given her a time and, after counting down, left.
I do this with my kids. Say we have to leave in 30 minutes. I tell them and then remind them ten minutes later, ten minutes after that, then five, then two, and then I leave. My kids are 5 and 7, and they're getting better about getting ready faster now. Heck, I do that with my SILs, too. My hubby's sisters are bad about taking forever to get ready (everything apparently has to be "just so"), so I give them warnings and leave. They've learned I mean it and rush for the door.

I'm a terrible procrastinator, but growing up, Dad would just leave me behind if I weren't ready (I was the only daughter). Didn't take much for me to learn to get ready fast.

Maybe trying that with her for when it affects you will help you at least feel better. Wouldn't at least a dinner out to yourself with time to just sit and enjoy the food in peace been better than no dinner out at all? :)
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
65. Kill her
she deserves it
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #65
85. lol
Spoken like a true parent.
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
66. Kill AND eat her
then you will possess her power........

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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. and then you can kill more children with said power
and we will live in a forever procrastination free world!
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Huzzah
and I'll help when I can get to it.......
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. meh - we'll do it later
maybe
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
70. start docking her pay
tell her she gets paid for the hours she works... no more than that.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
72. If you were in Utah, you would say, "I am so flippin' mad at my daughter I could kill her."
because I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said. :shrug:
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
73. I'll assume that your daughter has plenty of virtues that more than make up for her tardiness.
In my estimation, punctuality is an easy virtue, and by "easy" I mean that it's not difficult to acquire even if you're lazy. Other virtues such as loyalty, kindness, intuition, quick-wittedness, innovativeness, and the ability to reason out problems must either be inborn, and if they're not innate, they take a long time to ingrain. I've found that many people who are disloyal, unkind, non-intuitive, stupid, illogical, and old-fashioned nevertheless like to cultivate punctuality a) because it's not too onerous a task, and b) so they'll be able to say they have at least one virtue. They also get to satisfy their sense of superiority by nagging non-punctual people about their lateness, and that, by the way, is not a virtue. I'd go so far as to say that most of the people I know who've insisted on punctuality have been real assholes.

Kudos to you for having been understanding about your daughter's tardiness up to this point, and for not being an asshole about it. Keep it up, look to your daughter's strengths and be happy about them. Occasionally reminding her about being on time isn't a bad idea -- you do have a business to run, after all -- but just realize how unimportant punctuality is when compared to kindness, for instance, and how much more your organization and your life have benefited from your daughter's much more difficult-to-attain, intangible virtues.

In short, what I'm saying is that punctuality is not a reasonable indicator of character.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. I applaud this post!
And not JUST because I'm always 5 minutes late!

I HATE to be early. I find waiting around for things
to START to be the biggest waste of time in the WORLD!

My husband and I have also been known as The Ishes.
As in: "What time should we be there?

"5-ISH"

Just so that everyone is comfortable and no one gets
PSYCHO about getting here on time. Especially in these
days, with traffic closings, freak snow storms...etc. PLUS.....


"I'd go so far as to say that most of the people I know who've insisted on punctuality have been real assholes."

(Truer words were never typed!)

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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. you were late again weren't you?
:shrug:

:rofl:

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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #73
82. I'm not sure I agree with this, although I understand where you are coming from.
In some cases, at least with my SIL, it is a form of passive agressiveness. In that she COULD be on time, yet chooses to keep others waiting. Almost a 'I'm so special you can't start the event without me'.

I believe not keeping people waiting purposefully is an indicator of character, because it shows that you acknowledge that their time is valuable as well.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
86. I know it's not a reasonable indicator of character.
But it is a PRIME indicator of productivity in our business. You MUST be there certain hours, especially in the morning, or you WILL fail. Maybe not immediately, and if you're good in other ways, maybe not soon, but eventually you will fail, in this business, if you can't come in on time. And it is a very bad message to give to those you are managing. And, then, you've got a problem, not just with yourself, but with an entire GROUP of failures.

But, you're right. Punctuality is no measure of character.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. it is an indicator of her character that she knows she is fucking you up....
but doesn;t care. she has learned to completely disrespect you. good worker? you are contradicting yourself.
not only is she messing up productivity, she's fucking up the workplace, ruining morale by getting special treatment. her own behaviour is just the seed....
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
75. Fire Her!!!!!111
but if you kill her now you've got too many witnesses that would say you said you would (even if we all agreed not to, it's forever digitized as evidence against you)

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
77. serious business, that
I believe it shows a complete lack of respect to those counting on her. You want I should kick her ass?
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
78. Nice post, Alec Baldwin.
:evilgrin:
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
79. I'm so mad at my daughter I could kill her.
you got it made, love.

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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
83. Your daughter has a sweet deal! Of course she's late, you allow it!
So why not? There aren't any consequences....

My daughter also works for me. She knows that if/when she's late for a special outing (and not just by an acceptable margin of a few minutes or so), I'll leave without her. I have a cell phone, she has her own car so I'm never out of reach. If she wants to find me, and join me, she can but no way would I wait that long!

Also, when she's late to work, her pay is docked. I'm lucky in that I have other people who can do her job (she does conditioning gallops for our horses when she's home from college), and if she isn't getting it done, I re-assign it and pay them instead of her. I have to give those other employees a bit of a bonus so they aren't pissed about carrying her workload but now instead of being angry when she fucks up and blows US off, they jump at the opportunity to take over her job. The key thing though, is you can't cave and just end up giving your daughter money anyway. If she works for you, you have to treat her like any other employee who doesn't show up/shows up chronically late - fire her and mean it which means cutting off the cash flow! It sounds like you have trouble firing her, so acknowledge that and work around it by not paying her when she fucks up!

It took some time with my own daughter, and some tough love, and it still very occasionally happens BUT she has learned - really learned - how to respect me, respect my workplace, and how to be a grown up about her own work and personal time habits.

You are enabling your daughter to continue to be a child with a child's sense of responsibility. You aren't doing her any favors by continuing to allow that kind of tardiness/irresponsibility now that she is an adult. I can't even imagine the level of frustration you must be feeling. How old is your daughter? She sounds very young. FWIW, mine's 20 and I couldn't be prouder of the responsible young woman she has grown up to be.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
84. Fire her
If she's late for work every day, do wht any other employer would do and fire her. I remember working for my grandfather (Dad's dad) when I was a teen. I kept showing up later, loafing and not getting enough and he fired me.

I was dreading telling my Dad, I thought he would kill me, but he read it on my face when I came up the driveway. "Your grandaddy fired your ass, didn't he?"

"yeah, he did"

Dad laughed and just said "That's ok, he fired my ass too when I was about your age, probably the best thing he ever did for me."

Trust me, it's not the end of the world. If she doesn't learn how things work now, she'll have a tougher time learning them later....


good luck :hug:
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pink-o Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
88. These posters are right! Daughter behaves the way she does cuz she gets away with it.
My own story: as a 16 year old junior in high school, I never got up in time to make my first 2 classes. No one back then knew about those teenage hormones that makes you need the extra sleep in the morning, but I also got away with it--until during my senior year, the principle told me to straighten up or I wouldn't graduate. Once faced with the consequences, I straightened up in no time

Then a year later, I moved to England. I was 18, and got a job in a hotel. Without my parents to fall back on, without anyone around to bail me out, I (who like you was never on time for anything) suddenly found my inner punctuality. Knowing there was no safety net was the only thing that worked for me.

I am now an old lady of 53, and it's my friends and family who're late to everything! I'm always unfashionably on time--a skill I never would have learned without the aforementioned parable.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
89. MY S-I-L is like that. She's chronically late
for no good reason. She always wears makeup and takes a long time putting it on. She won't skip or shorten working out for anything. She constantly inconveniences others with her lateness. Occasionally, she'll say she's going to be somewhere and never shows up at all.

The most recent time she did this, it turns out that she was tired from meeting her boyfriend at 1:00 a.m. from the airport the night before when his flight was postponed. She was supposed (the next day) to be at our writers' group for our Christmas present exchange. Let me add: she started this group, and people were there with presents for her, carefully chosen and wrapped. She blew us off, basically. I won't get started on why she shouldn't be with this guy, but she had the other commitment first, and chose to behave in a way the night before that caused her to breach that commitment. Does your daughter do this too?
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
93. there's a book you should read
or at least parts of it.

The Myth of Laziness by Mel Levine, PhD


Time Management/ Time awareness is - difficult - for some people. And it's not a volitional problem. Maybe if you both understood this you could brainstorm some strategies for dealing with. She probably doen't really LIKE being late - but she's used to it and besides, it better to act like you don't care when you're young.

Good luck.

:hi:
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
94. Your daughter has no respect for you
If she did she would at least have tried to get ready on time for your night out.
I don't care how many people here say she has ADD, or she's got some psychological problem and you have to understand her. I even saw one post saying that punctuality is not necessarily a sign of good character.
Excuse me, but intractable lateness is a sign of complete disrespect for other people. Your time is worth nothing to her. You waited 3 hours for her. She knew this.
Her work ethic also sounds like crap.
I'm sorry, you have to stop making excuses for her and make her grow the fuck up.

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