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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:17 PM
Original message
Vegans, Vegetarians: Do you ever Struggle and give in?
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 06:42 PM by Mike03
About once a month, I have to have red meat, or some dairy product like cheese. It's not my imagination: I start to feel completely awful, weak, unmotivated, depressed. I've tried taking iron, B-12, extra B, tons of supplements, especially the ones that are supposed to work against depression. Nothing seems to help much.

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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Never intentionally.
:puke:

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SallyMander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nope
it's been 13 years, i don't even miss it anymore!
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hellbound-liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. The thought of eating meat makes me ill
I know I did it most of my life but I wouldn't even consider it now.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wonder if that's why so many people fail to make the complete transition to
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 06:40 PM by Mike03
complete veganism, is because there are so many people who tell them they are failures for even trying, if they can't make it 100% immediately.

They get no real help or encouragement, so they just say Fuck It.
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I think it depends on your motivation
People are vegan/vegetarian for many different reasons. I think if your reason for being a vegetarian are due to health, it is probably "easier" to cheat rather than one who choses it for their own moral issues.

I'm sorry you don't feel encouragement. This vegetarian doesn't consider you a failure. :)
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. My reasons were ethical, actually, before "health."
I used to volunteer at an animal shelter six days a week. That is really when veganism became a priority.

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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. That was how I started too
For ethical reasons. It has since encompassed most the other reasons as well.

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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. You might be like me; try giving up wheat for a week
I ate it by the ton for 45 years. Quit a month ago and was surprised to find all my irrational anxieties (plus depression, lack of motivation, weakness) just evaporated. Worth a try at least.

However, if you want to eat meat or cheese once in a while, go ahead. Far as I know, protein is protein, though. You should be able to feel equally well by eating more tofu, soy cheese, etc.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh no!
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's so cute!
I love that smilie thingymabob.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. HAHAHAHA! Love that animated gif.
I'm stealing it. Thank you.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not once since 1970
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. No, but I know some people do.
I'm wondering if maybe you've got a dietary need that's not being met. I suppose the other option would be that your symptoms are psychosomatic, and while the cultural associations between meat and health tend to be drilled into us from childhood in this society, I don't think that's it because if that was the problem you likely wouldn't get the same feelings of restored health from cheese as well.

It could be that your intestinal flora are still adapting, it's not uncommon to feel ill for a bit as a new vegetarian as your body gets more efficient at digesting plant foods, but I would think that would be a one time thing and it's usually over in a week or two.

Stick with it, you, animals and the planet are much better off with your once a month meat eating than with the more typical fare. By a lot. And you'll get it all straightened out, you're obviously motivated.

Kicking so flvegan sees this, he might have more ideas. I'll keep thinking about it, but I have to finish my take-home history midterm :cry: so I might not have anything to add until tomorrow. I'll check with the nutritionist at work and see if she has any thoughts.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Are you getting enough calories?
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:13 PM by OhioBlues
I felt awful for a while and Flvegan suggested I eat six meals a day. It worked really well, that and I do take L carnitine, B 12 and flax seed oil supplements. Though I've never been tempted to eat meat, dairy tempts me, ice cream especially, but I have a built in safeguard, I'm lactose intolerant. (That said there are soy and rice based alternatives)

I hope you figure out what it is soon.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I know I'm not, and that's part of the problem
I exercise at least four hours a day, and I only get about four hours of sleep a night.

I'm trying to find high calorie things to add to my eating. I just don't eat much, about one meal a day.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. It wouldn't even be a problem except I have to do what I have to do
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:20 PM by Mike03
My father has terminal cancer, I have to take care of him, and there are all other sorts of matters. I used to be able to take naps, sleep, etc...

I apologize for venting; I'm just so exhausted all the time, and I take about forty supplements a day, and it's just not helping much. And I get four hours of exercise, no matter what.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Actually, more than four. Probably four and a half to five hours exercise.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Seriously PM flvegan
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:27 PM by OhioBlues
I have a similar schedule and I have my mom living with me now. You are going to have to eat more and cut back on something or you will end up a depressed tired mess, which is how I was feeling. You need some sound advice, take yourself to the Vegetarian, Vegan and Animal Rights Group and let them help you as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thanks for your post. I appreciate it.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. HI THERE!! Let's talk.
I've read your responses. Tons of exercise, very little sleep. What is your diet like, how often do you eat, and when do you exercise.

Also, do you have any medical conditions or issues?
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Well, I haven't been to a doctor in more than ten years.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 08:02 PM by Mike03
I don't think I have any medical issues, but I also have a fear of doctors, so I have not really been checked out much lately.

My diet is fantastic: mostly raw foods; nuts, fruits for lunch, then vegetables/salad, nut butters, beans, but (yes I hate myself) often a cooked chicken breast for dinner.

I try to fast for twenty hours a day, so I really only eat one meal.

As for exercise, I get up at three in the morning, do two hours of yoga, ninety minutes of weight lifting, and then later ninety minutes of running/fast walking divided into two sessions.

Thanks for asking, although I have very mixed feelings about sharing this on DU.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. If you want, we can move to a PM conversation.
That way, you're only sharing with one person.

For the record, I'm not a hack or anything. Obviously (screen name) I'm a vegan, but I'm also a 3x certified personal trainer and sports nutritionist.

Would a PM conversation interest you?
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Thanks for offering to talk to me. Maybe that would be a great
help. I'm not really afraid to talk to you here. I would really appreciate some guidance, however you feel comfortable doing it.

Thanks.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Totally up to you.
If you want to do this via PM, let's do that. Otherwise, we're back to the original questions about your diet (what you're eating).
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Sorry, didn't I answer that??
I'm mostly on a raw food diet, until I crack, and then I eat cooked chicken breast or hamburger, mixed with tomato and onion.

My diet guide is that caloric restriction helps people live longer and healthier, so I eat very little and exercise a lot.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes, you did. Just trying to establish the forum and where we were.
Okay, so you're largely eating raw, exercising 4 or 5 hours a day, sleeping 4 hours a day. You seem to have a great deal of stress in your life.

Caloric restriction doesn't really help people live longer. That's kind of like saying not putting gas in the car will make it go further. It's the quality of the calories, not so much the number that counts. Why do you try to fast for 20 hours? This will be my last question, honest.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. The reason I try to fast for twenty hours
I read in a book called the "Hundred Year Lie" that our cells extinguish their toxins after that period of time.

The other thing is that I have never been a breakfast eater, so it's not really that big a deal for me to go that long without eating.

I know this sounds pretty strange. I almost wish we could just talk personally.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Problem with fasting like that
everyday is that your metabolism and insulin takes a huge hit. Also, Fitzgerald I don't think takes into consideration someone as active you are. Fasting is a periodic thing, not a lifestyle

I think, honestly, you're going to have these problems, regardless of what you eat until you adopt eating more than one meal a day. Your lifestyle isn't going to support it.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Why are you exercising so much? Are you trying to lose weight?
You will probably get better advice from flvegan, but I would think you would do better with MORE food, more often. I try to keep a pretty steady state of my blood sugar -- if I get too hungry, I always feel like I am just dying, then I overeat and crash. Also, if your body feels like it is starving, it won't let go of the weight as easily. I just don't think it's good for you when you let your blood sugar yo-yo.

I'd also alternate the weight lifting days with the cardio days. You are probably burning a LOT of calories.

Good luck! :hi:
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. No, I'm not trying to lose weight
I have no idea why I exercise this much. And it doesn't feel like very much, actually. It just feels like doing what I want to do. It just seems natural and fulfilling to me to do a lot of physical things. I've been that way since I was a pre teenager.

Although, the eating part is different: that is definitely a fear of cancer.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Have you considered exercise addiction as a possibility?
http://www.active.com/story.cfm?NUM=1&STORY_ID=10296&CH...

If you're not training for an event or competition, four hours every day is rather excessive and no wonder you are not getting enough calories. Do you have any idea of how much you would have to eat to burn it off?

You mentioned depression and I'm wondering if this could be some manifestation as exercise releases endorphins. Contrary to what Tom Cruise thinks, vitamins and supplements are not going to cure depression.

With your dad's illness, it doesn't even seem logical to be exercising four hours a day when you have so many other demands. I think an hour a day would be more than sufficient, and that's what is recommended for weight loss, 30 minutes a day for maintenance.

I seriously would recommend seeing a doctor and discussing all of this with him and her. Getting blood and urine analysis would be a good place to start and be sure to provide a list of supplements.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
53. Well, I haven't read the book you reference about the toxin cleansing.
But perhaps, since you like the exercise so much, you could consider adding more food back into your diet for just a period of a week, for example, and then doing the fast, and see how you feel.

The thing you have to take into account is sort of an experimental approach to your health -- change one thing and see how you feel after that.

I'm not a vegan / vegetarian, but I don't think anyone should rag on you for your dietary choices, esp. since you're doing your best! :hi:
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Why do you believe fasting 20 hours a day consistently
would even be healthy, particularly given your level of activity. I'm sure your feeling crappy because your body is literally consuming itself.

I find what you're saying quite troubling and really think you need to talk to some experts in nutrition and exercise.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. There needs to be some middle ground for concientious people who are almost
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:40 PM by Mike03
there, but not completely there, but who are not so negative and hurtful that they just push people back to not giving a shit anymore.

The Dalai Lama couldn't do it either, but he does as well as he can. Is he a failure as a human being?
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You're absolutely right.
I don't think you should feel bad or be talked to/treated negatively because you're not Ubervegan Level 7. If you want a burger here and there, or you feel you need a milkshake or gooey cheese on a pizza, then have at it.

Live in that middle ground. Do what you can, "give in" when you need to. Doesn't make you any less of a conscious person. If a vegan or vegetarian gives you shit because you're not their version of "perfect" tell them I said to kiss my ass.

I hope you'll answer my question above, too. I think that you have a number of challenges that you could easily get past.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Oh, sorry, I will answer your questions... NT
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Well put sir!
:applause:
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thanks, but
don't tell anyone I said that. The ubervegan killsquad will be totally on my ass, okay?
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Lips are locked dude!
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. It's not even to the level that I "enjoy" it
It is just like "injecting" it into my body, to use a metaphor.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
51. Yo!
:thumbsup:


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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. "almost there"
That's me :hi:
I'm afraid I won't be able to quit the cheese, I just love it so much!! And shrimp :loveya: even though I rarely eat that anyway.
It's great lately how much easier it is to find what you want and to know exactly what you're getting. I used TVP for the first time last week to make a batch of perfect chili.

I know personal health and the energy wasted on the meat industry are big reasons to go vegetarian but I really do it because I love the animals, I've visited factory farms before and seen stuff I can never forget.
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Gen. Jack D. Ripper Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
30. I gave in, permanently
I just couldn't do it any more, I don't think it was in my makeup. I held on for several years, but, in the end, the lure of meat was too great. Plus, I changed the way I look at things. Eating meat is natural, even if the industrialization of the process of raising and slaughtering animals is not.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Thank you for having the guts to even share this
Around here, you are automatically hated unless you can go one hundred percent vegan overnight.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Wow, where did you get *that* idea?!
:wtf:
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Did you read the posts in response? NT
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. I didn't see anyone hating you...
In fact, I saw people trying to help you... :shrug:
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. This thread sort of went way beyond what I had intended. I'm sorry for posting it.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
44. No, never.n/t
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
46. Can someone just please DELETE this thread?
Please delete it.

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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Mods, please take pity on me and just delete this thread
Please delete it...
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I think it's interesting.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. At night I'm a junk food junkie
good lord, have pity on me.

:P
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
54. Locking.....
because the OP has requested it.

greatauntoftriplets
DU moderator
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