Am I going to get kicked out of the Feminist Club?

[SarahB]

If I, say, want to involve things in my sex life that don't just involve making love really, really slowly and listening to Enya in the background?

[billyskank]

1. If you are it doesn't sound like the kind of club I'd want to join anyway.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

2. No, I 'd just kick you out of the good taste club for listening to Enya.

What's all this about? I'm not sure I get what feminism has to do with Enya.

[SarahB]

16. As you should.

It's about people imposing their views on other women. It's about other women saying to other women that if you don't believe how I believe and make the choices I make, you must be oppressed, troubled, or victimized. To me, that's not what feminism is about.

[TheProphetess]

114. Well put!

It's nice to hear someone else say it.

[enigmatic]

112. Hey now

I own Enya's "Waterark" and have played "On Your Shore" on my show numerous times, and I'm an proud O.G. Indie Snob

[The Straight Story]

3. I think you can do as you want long as you don't take pics and show others

Can't have that, it is exploiting yourself!

[lost-in-nj]

4. NAY

I think even feminists throw caution to the wind
when it comes to love making....




lost

ps I like Enya to

[skygazer]

5. In the immortal words of Maude Lebowski -

"It's a male myth about feminists that we hate sex. It can be a natural, zesty enterprise."

She didn't say anything about Enya, however.

[bicentennial_baby]

6. Did you mean 'don't just involve'...

[SarahB]

9. Yes!

[bicentennial_baby]

11. I understood you...

[SarahB]

13. I need to proofread better.

I'm married to a English teacher now.

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. You might attract some wimmins that way

[Shakespeare]

8. bi_baby and I will be joining you in feminist exile.

I'll also join you in this:

[bicentennial_baby]

10. But, do we get our own island?

one where we can bring our similarly exiled SO/BF/Husbands?

[SarahB]

14. Don't you mean

the evil, women-hating, subjugating bastards?

[bicentennial_baby]

17. Yeah, those guys...

[Shakespeare]

29. But only if we promise to objectify them!

Not that they'd have a problem with that, mind you....

[Shakespeare]

18. Yes, but....

...we may have to smuggle in the lube and sex toys.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. I'm tricksy like that...

[LostinVA]

71. And mint-flavored condoms

[SarahB]

12. I'm there!

The two of you are the only voices of reason in some cases.

[cynatnite]

15. As a feminist, I recognize my femininity and embrace it...

I'm a Loreena McKennitt and candles gal.

[SeattleGirl]

20. I'f you do, you'll have plenty of company, including me.

And if some other women disapprove, tough. Their problem, not mine.

BTW, I also like porn. Does that mean I hate myself???

[Starbucks Anarchist]

25. What kind of chick are you?

[SeattleGirl]

27. A wild one.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. Me likey!

[SeattleGirl]

39. Aw, shucks.......

[lost-in-nj]

31. Secret between feminists???

shhh

i like porn to.....





lost

[SeattleGirl]

36. Hey lost!

I swear, there are some women who supposedly are feminists who want to impose even more restrictions on us than pasty white men!

[lost-in-nj]

49. empowerment

thats the ticket!!!!

we have SO much power during

well I can't say....

but you know what I mean


WE OWN IT!!!!!!!!!!!




lost

[SeattleGirl]

52. You know it!

[LostinVA]

74. Today, I learned that

yes, apparently, you do hate yourself.

[SeattleGirl]

83. ROFL! Well, that's news to me!

[libnnc]

127. I guess I hate myself too...

I deserve severe punishment that only Tristan Taromino and Nina Hartley can inflict...oooooh. Yeah. I said it.

[lildreamer316]

129. Oh SNAP!

There's a good one.

[libnnc]

130. tee-hee

now you know my secret crushes...

[BuddhaGirl]

137. LOLOL

I met Nina Hartley once...she's funny, smart and really nice!!

[DS1]

21. This message brought to you by the American Headboard Council

[Shakespeare]

24. Fortunately, there are much, much more fun reasons for banging one's head against a headboard...

....than sheer frustration (albeit accidentally).

[bicentennial_baby]

26. I hope they are headboards to which one can attach...

stuff, like handcuffs or ropes...Otherwise,

[DS1]

28. ropes, cuffs, cantilevers, swingsets

edit: camel restraint systems

[bicentennial_baby]

33. ....

Camels is dangerous!!

[lost-in-nj]

34. WHOO HOOO

oops did I say that out loud????

Silk Ties........hmmmm






lost

[GOPisEvil]

22. I thought feminism was about making empowered decisions.

Did I miss something? (Looking at GD lately, I think I did.)

[SeattleGirl]

30. You didn't. They did.

[GOPisEvil]

32. Good. I was beginning to worry.

[SarahB]

35. Unfortunately, it seems so.

If your tastes as a woman fall outside some arbitrarily approved list, you're obviously oppressed by men. I'm married to Mr. Apple-Pie who happily goes along with all my weird stuff. If I'm oppressed, monkeys fly out of my butt.... hey, wait a minute

[GOPisEvil]

40. Kinky!

I might have to mention that to a certain someone.

[Pale Blue Dot]

46. Oh, not the monkey thing again!

Why do you have to be so vanilla?

[SeattleGirl]

68. I know. Really, really pisses me off when I get hit with that attitude.

I'm not some naive little twit who has to have someone else tell her how to think, feel, or act. I can make my own decisions, thank you very much, and I am pretty cool with who I am.

BTW, watch out for those monkeys!

[JVS]

80. Making decisions for other people is the most empowered kind of decision one can make

[SeattleGirl]

86. .......

[supernova]

23. I certainly

am not going to aplogize for it.

Sheez. I'm not a kid and I'm not a fragile doll to be placed on the shelf only to be gazed at longingly but too fragile to touch.

[KitchenWitch]

38. The Feminists Club (TM) can be a bit overrated!

[SPKrazy]

41. If it is a club that dictates your sex life

then it isn't worth being a member of

one can be a feminist without being a member of a "club" (I know you aren't speaking literally and neither am I)

to each her own!

[Withywindle]

42. That's the patriarchy talking!

If you were a REAL feminist, a deep meaningful conversation about your shared humanity would be all you'd need to get you off!

(Once I thought it might be hot and adventurous to try some eye contact. Then I realized he was just objectifying my mascara.)

[SeattleGirl]

43. ROFL!

I HATE it when men objectify my mascara!!!!

[Pale Blue Dot]

44. Shut up and get back into bed!

And don't come out until you've finished serving all of my man-needs!

[SarahB]

47. Don't make me give you another wedgie!

[Pale Blue Dot]

48. I have three words for you.

Heel... heel... heel....

[SarahB]

53. .

No tickles, please. Please.

[ismnotwasm]

45. Hell no

It's a pretty big club with plenty of alternatives. Who's gonna kick you out? I'm a radical feminist and I like making love to OTEP. Who is the best metal voice I've heard in a long time. Issues? Yeah, she's got one or two, but DAMN...That voice.

[LeftyMom]

50. They kicked me out over my lack of pubes

I wish I was fucking kidding.

The really weird thing is, most of 'em still think the sun shines out flvegan's ass. How that works I don't know, I guess he's a victim of my poor body image or something.

[SarahB]

51. To me, women who don't support women are ANTI-feminists.

It's about choice as an individual. No one thinks a man is oppressed or victimized because he shaves his bits and pieces or has whatever kind of sex he wants. It's a non-issue for men (not to mention trivializes the experiences of men and women whom are victims when consenting adults are berated for their own decisions as such).

[LeftyMom]

55. Agreed.

We really need a sex-positive feminism group on DU.

[SeattleGirl]

56. I'll second that, LM.

The only thing worse than a man who thinks women who enjoy sex are whores, are women who think women who enjoy sex are whores.

[LeftyMom]

57. Or victims, or traitors to their gender, or confused about what they want.

I try to stay out of the sex-tangential topics, because that attitude is patronizing and it absolutely infuriates me.

[SeattleGirl]

62. Oooooh, that pisses me off too!

Especially the "victim" mindset. Are women sometimes victims? Hell yeah (and sometimes, so are men). But I don't consider myself a VICTIM of men because I happen to enjoy sex, and don't think there's anything wrong with that!

I'm so glad there are like minded women around here!

[LeftyMom]

64. I know

I think we need to stop letting ourselves be shouted down.

[SeattleGirl]

67. Amen to that!

I don't much care for being told how I SHOULD feel, or how I SHOULD act, or that how I DO feel and act is wrong.

I keep thinking of a line from "Steel Magnolias", where Olympia Dukakis says to Daryl Hannah, "Anelle, honey, you need to lighten up!"

Hmmm, maybe I'll use that next time another woman tries to tell me there's something wrong with me.

[LostinVA]

91. That's a great group idea

[SeattleGirl]

95. I think so too.

Be great to have a place for like-minded women to meet up (though I suppose there would be those who would drop in to kick the crap out of us and say we're brainwashed by a misogynistic society, we are victims, and the only way to redeem ourselves is by renouncing sex or something like that).

[LostinVA]

97. I think the only thing needed to get a group started is

a mission statement and 10 interested donating members. Shouldn't be too hard, provided someone wants to write up a mission statement.

[Shakespeare]

98. No, they wouldn't kick the crap out of us.

Not in anybody's dreams.

[LeftyMom]

105. That's the whole point of having a group anyhow

No omnis in the veg group, no woowoos in skepticism, no Sandra Lee in cooking and baking.

[SeattleGirl]

106. Agreed.

I just know that sometimes people who are not of the philosophy of a particular group like to infiltrate it and set about bashing. But then, that's what mods and alert buttons are for!

[LostinVA]

75. Well, that's really my fault

I was the one that started that thread.

Or if you want to go way back, it was Haruka, who got in the original pube flamewar in GD.

[LeftyMom]

85. Yeah, but she didn't get called racist for disliking her own body hair.

I still think I get some kind of medal for drawing that kind of crazyass fire over shaving an area three people, and that's counting myself and the annual peek my gyno gets, ever see.

[LostinVA]

87. Nope, people just kept insisting she was a straight man

I still can't believe you got called a racist. You do deserve a medal for that.

[BarenakedLady]

54. There's a club?

pffft. They'd probably make me wear clothes.

[Taverner]

58. Nina Hartley is a feminist - so I don't see why you'd get kicked out

And she was a porn MASTER.

[SarahB]

59. and a nurse

[Taverner]

65. Why yes, she is an RN

I just learned that today myself!

I knew she was in Boogie Nights but I had no idea the extent of her talents (she's also a very good writer.)

[libnnc]

128. and she has an MA in Political Science

from Berkley (I think).

Nina rocks.

[Left Is Write]

60. Wait. Making love really, really slowly while listening to Enya is feminist?

[lost-in-nj]

61. NO its awesome

lost

[skygazer]

63. Who knew?

I don't think I even have any Enya. Frig. Does this mean no more sex?

[SarahB]

66. Origins of my Enya comment

come from a particular narrative from The Vagina Monologues.

http://onekell.livejournal.com/134181.html

Read "Because he liked to look at it". It kind of gives an insightful perspective on how modern feminism speaks in terms of women's sexuality in regard to self love and reclaiming ourselves, which is good, but some times, for some people, experiences with our partner and expressing that mutually can be just as healing, pleasurable, etc. in whatever way we choose to do that.

[enigmatic]

69. I just spent hour reading all the porn threads in GD

I know, I know But the most interesting (and most telling)thing in all of them was the absolute refusal for just about all of the most zealous anti-porn posters to engage the many, many women in those threads who do enjoy porn in any kind of dialog whatsoever, instead just engaging in insults and bile to the men who were posting, even when directly asked to do so.

My feelings about this has always been the same. Women and men get to make their own choices about what to do w/ their own body, period. It should be nobody's business.

[supernova]

76. Yes, wasn't that odd?

I felt practically nonexistent in those threads.

I guess our anti-porn sisters think we don't exist or think we are deluding ourselves or something.

[enigmatic]

94. It was

I kept waiting and waiting to, no avail. I couldn't figure it out...

[SeattleGirl]

89. Right on, e.

I really don't get that kind of crap like they were spewing there. As if ALL women in porn are poor little victims who were forced into it, and ALL men who are in porn, or choose to watch it, are misogynistic bastards.

People need to grow up.

[enigmatic]

92. I just couldn't figure that out

And there was no way I was going to get involved in that Nuclear Flamewar; it's pointless. Oh well...

[Shakespeare]

93. LOL....I was going to stay out of it, too--UNTIL

Somebody had the gall to suggest I couldn't be a feminist and also like anal sex. Them's fightin' words.

[enigmatic]

96. I saw that

That statement was insane, and one of the reasons I stayed out of those that particular thread. I mean, WTF?

[SeattleGirl]

102. Oh fer gawd sakes! Someone actually SAID THAT???

Some peeps need to get a life!

[supernova]

104. Or get more practice!

[SeattleGirl]

107. ROFL!

[Pale Blue Dot]

123. oh crap

I'm not Finnfan!

[Shakespeare]

125. LOL!!

And now we can throw in gender confusion, just to keep things interesting!

[SarahB]

124. I wonder if...

two women did it together with a strap on or a women to a guy with one? Is that ok? I wonder who makes the "what's acceptable" set of rules. Is it the act itself or their perceived view it's violating and women are victims?

[Shakespeare]

126. The complexity of the rules must rival the U.S. tax code.

Seriesly.

And if I may be so coarse, people have been fucking each other in the ass long before the patriarchy established dominance. And liking it, too.

Among other, surely countless, variations on the Beloved Act.

[enigmatic]

134. "The complexity of the rules must rival the U.S. tax code"

[SeattleGirl]

100. I mostly observed.

My flame retardant suit isn't THAT strong.

[jpgray]

101. Good take, as usual.

[LostinVA]

70. Well, Haruka and I will be getting kicked out right along side you

Hell, she's proud that her cousin achieved his lifelong dream of becoming a porn director, and happily bought his DVD to support him.

[Shakespeare]

72. Porno Jim!

The man has talent!

[LostinVA]

77. Yep -- a feminist male porn director.

I'll finally get to meet him at Thanksgiving; sooner, if he starts up his live show again.

[LeftyMom]

79. Not gonna be at teh wedding?

dang.

[LostinVA]

84. Nope

BTW, check your PM.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

73. Wanna join my club?

[LostinVA]

78. Haruka used a lot of EVOO tonight

in the arugula pesto she made. Sorry, it was a Giada recipe, though, not a Rachel Ray one.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

81. Oh, Giada is acceptable as well.

[Scout]

82. I doubt the "feminist club" pays that much attention to you.... n/t

[Shakespeare]

88. Nice! Missed the point, by the way.

But I'm sure you already knew that.

[LostinVA]

90. Hey -- check your PM

[Shakespeare]

99. Oui! Now check yours. n/t

[LostinVA]

103. Check yours again

[SarahB]

118. Really?

I work on the front lines in women's health, including choice. I'm not a keyboard vigilante. I live life in the real world as a doer, not just a talker. So think as you will about me while I'm both comfortable with myself and in making in difference in other women's lives.

[WindRavenX]

108. someone pm me plz about the origins of this...sounds weird

Am I to understand that there are some self-identified feminists who feel some certain types of sex are automatically oppressive in nature and thus makes you...oppressed?

[SeattleGirl]

109. Uh, yup! But only in GD.

Apparently, we wimmins who like porn are mere victims and are also selling out women all over the globe.

[Missy Vixen]

110. I'll sign on for your club

I'm pretty boring, but on the whole, I think people should be able to do what they like as long as it's with another consenting adult.

Julie

[SeattleGirl]

111. Cool! The official name of the club is The Weird Undead Lounge Brigade

which came from yet another fine GD thread!

How you doin', Jules? Did the kitties do all right the other night? There was a quake about 160 miles from here, and my animals were on total freak out mode, starting about 90 minutes before it hit. flamingyouth said hers were doing the same.

[Missy Vixen]

113. I am so IN

I'll bring chocolate and a Candida Royalle DVD .

Okay. Which night was this? The cats have been a little weird lately, but they're still getting used to Mr. JulieRB's return from Australia -- or they're looking for Fancy Feast. (They get organic cat food. Unfortunately, we gave them some Fancy Feast as a treat, and now we're screwn. If they don't get it every night, they go apeshit.)

I hope everything else is great for you and for flamingyouth! (She's in our club, right?)

Julie

[SeattleGirl]

121. It was Monday night, I believe.

My dog, who absolutely loves to go outside and play ball, came to a screeching halt at the doorway, refused to come outside. One of my cats was sitting nearby, and she DID go out, but was slinking very low to the ground, tail down, moving very slowly. Shortly thereafter, both she and one of the other cats came indoors and hid in the guest room. The dog was clinging to me like a frightened child.

They were acting so strangely that I was getting freaked out, and I don't get freaked out easily.

[guitar man]

115. are you saying

that you may choose to be objectified while watching porn, listening to AC/DC and banging away like furious rabbits?

[SarahB]

120. Not at all.

Perhaps though, I choose to objectify my guy while watching porn banging away to 80's alternative.

[guitar man]

132. hey,that sounds fun too :) nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

116. you are a feminist if you say you are however feminism is based partly is social theory etc

so you may have theoretical differences with other feminists. i for instance think removing pubic hair is a strange cultural phenomenon that has origins in hegemonic masculinity. doesnt mean that if you get a bikini wax you arent a feminist, but that removing body hair is generally bourne out of sexism.

you define yourself and in some ways you will agree with the theories/ideologies of your chosen label and in other ways you wont.

[SarahB]

119. I just have a difficult time with those who believe

if you don't agree with them on X issue, you cannot be a feminist. Even if I understand the origins (in part) of some practices, I don't see things in such a black and white way. People are far too individual for it to be broken down in such terms. Relationships and sexuality are far more complex than the continually defining of it under the umbrella of patriarchal heterosexuality.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. no one can decide what label you choose to take. the gayer than thou types and the more feminist

than thou need to get a life.

however all to often i often find people just denying issues that are related to patriarchal heterosexuality too.

[MissMillie]

117. a true feminist goes after whatever she wants in the bedroom

if that's Enya, then so be it. If it's black vinyl and 5 inch heels and a whip... so be it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

122. Only If You Engage In That Act That Dare Not Speak Its Name

per one of our posters...

[RetroLounge]

131. If you do you can join my club...

where anything goes between consenting adults, restraints are appreciated, and Massive Attack and Curve are cranking during the lovemaking.

and the only candles are used for dripping wax onto skin.

RL

p.s. The safe word is "hoboken."

[WildEyedLiberal]

133. Can I just add my voice to the amen chorus here?

I'm afraid to post in those threads because I get TIRED of being told I'm "anti-woman" or "pro=patriarchy" or some other similar bullshit because I reject ANYONE - whether the patriarchy or "radical feminists" - who presume to tell me what I can do with my body. It's very comforting know that a bunch of other SMART, STRONG WOMEN are fed up with that crap too.

[SeattleGirl]

135. You know it!

Amazing how my eyes have been opened over the past couple of days, reading some of the threads on DU. Christ, I used to think it was the overly-testosteroned who wanted to repress women, but I guess the overly-estrogened do too.