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Does it tick you off when people pray using King James-era language when they're praying?

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:44 AM
Original message
Does it tick you off when people pray using King James-era language when they're praying?

Such as, "Lord, we ask for Thy blessing..."
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. whenst thou beseecheth the lord
thou should take care to do it in a middle english fashion.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. Yeah, verily,
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 11:30 AM by XemaSab
the Lord heareth not the prayers of the people when the people do seek to beseech the Lord using XX century American speech.

Like, for sure.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nope. I don't care how people pray, or if they pray.
I don't pray myself -- I think it's useless because I don't believe there's anybody/thing to pray to -- but I couldn't care less whether or how other people do it.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. ditto
:hi:
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
48. Good. Cuz we always use thee and thou and thy.
I dunno. That's how we do it, and I like it. It feels more...respectful, I guess.

God gets enough disrespect these days, IMWO.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, when I was forced into Catholicism growing up, I'm sure I used some of those
words. Not that I was even aware what I was saying. It was all rote memorization with absolutely no feeling or understanding. Which I think is the case for many people.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Probably not, since RCs don't use KJV or NKJV
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I remember using some "thy"s and "thou"s and "for thine is the kingdom..." etc.
I don't know what version that is, but it sure isn't modern English.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. we used to pray in latin
"Repetitio mater memoriae"

repetition is the mother of memory.

the nuns would tell us that. over and over and over and over and over.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. And look! You still remember it!
:applause:
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. No, it doesn't irritate me. Our family all do this, and because of this, it sounds strange to me to
hear it any other way.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. YES
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Nah. I like a little grandeur in my prayers. I'm sick of the "Valley Girl" prayers
I hear constantly these days: "God, we're, like, just so happy to be in your presence today and, like, just ask you for blessings, and, like, grace 'n' stuff, an' we just, just, just are so, like happy to be, like, Christians 'n' stuff and bless us all today, 'kay? Cool, God! Amen!

Just once, I'd like to hear old-school prayer at church: "Almighty and most merciful God, we most humbly beseech You in Your mercy to hear our prayer this day and heal the afflictions of our beloved brothers and sisters"...and so on, like that.

There is a difference, don't you agree?
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. When I pray in public, I think I walk a middle ground between these
The Valley girl crap annoys me, too. But language that's too stilted doesn't work for me, either. I somehow steer a middle course. I hope.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Ditto here--some people overdo it with the "just"--
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 11:42 AM by raccoon
"Lord, we just ask that you yadda, yadda."

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Dervill Crow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. I've heard those referred to as "wejus" prayers.
"Lord, wejus thank you that we can gather together today and wejus praise Your name. . . "
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
45. Give me the old, "and lo, they dids't feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans..."
I was raised as an Episcopalian so it seems weird to hear some youth minister praying to god about just how "awesome" he is.
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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
51. Intention is everything. I don't think God really cares how it
sounds. It's not like he's Prince Charles or something.

If the prayer is meant sincerely and with respect and love, I'm sure it's all the same to God.

Although I hear that if you pray with a fake German accent, you will be completely ignored. :shrug:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
53. Well done.
Yes a certain majesty should be there when addressing God. ValGirl lingo doesn't do it.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. No, but woe be unto those who proselytizeth whilst spaking the words of the KJV
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 10:42 AM by Gormy Cuss
because in my experience most don't understand what the words mean.
Hint: just because it's a word you use every day, don't assume its meaning hasn't changed in the last four hundred years.

Using such language in prayers gives many a great deal of comfort and there I do not take issue.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yeah, that annoys me. So does "Lord, we just..."
What's with that? "Lord, we just want to thank you", "Father, we just want to...". Evangelicals do this "just" thing all the time. I don't know why that bugs me, but it does.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
49. What annoys me is when people say the Lord's name (or title)
every five or six words.

"Oh Lord, we thank thee this day, Lord, for the blessings thou hast given us, Lord. And Lord, we ask the to help us, Lord, to..."

I think He remembers to whom you are praying. It's the Department of Redundancy Department.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. no
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. No, they lose me at "Lord" and I don't listen anymore
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 10:52 AM by DS1
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. No, not at all
It's a beautiful rendering of the English language.

So, yeah, I always love to hear it, even if it's isn't considered the best scholarship anymore.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. nah, I don't care really...
tongues, king james, ebonics

doesn't bother me a bit
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pagerbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. What ticks me off more is when people use King James-era language badly.
Just throwing in "est" and "eth" willy-nilly and not knowing the difference between "thee" and "thou". It's called grammar, people--learn it before you mock it!
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Did someone call the Grammar Police?
Just throwing in "est" and "eth" willy-nilly and not knowing the difference between "thee" and "thou".

The above sentence lacks a subject.


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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. yeah, nothing wrong with "King James era" language......
whatever kind of language that is! ;)
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Lionel Mandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. Me too.
Hast thou read thy KJV? It behooveth thee to pay attention to the syntax. (Did I get that right?)
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. No.
From what I read, Shakespeare had a hand in editing the bible. It is curious however that some people pray that way, I never thought much about it since most of the adults would pray aloud that way when I was a child.

I prefer to read the old poetic King James version than the newer translation except for Good News for Modern Man that came out in the late 1960s or so. Some of the passages were really funny, like when Jesus was getting on the diciples case for asking lame questions.

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. I love it!
Arthur: How does it, um how does it work?

Lancelot: I know not, my liege.

Arthur: Consult the Book of Armaments!

Brother Maynard: Armaments, chapter two, verses nine to twenty-one.

Cleric: And Saint Attila raised the Hand Grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy Hand Grenade that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies into tiny bits... in Thy mercy.'
And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chu

Brother Maynard: Skip a bit, Brother.

Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once at the number three, being the third number be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'

Brother Maynard: Amen.

Knights: Amen.



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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Wow, that's so beautiful
Brings a tear to me eye, it does. :cry:
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
25. I dont care what dialect the faitthful use...
...along as they show their sincerity by handling live venomous snake while they pray
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Should they use leet-speak instead?
d34r l0rd, plz h3lp m3 p0wn sm n00bz
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
28. What does thoust mean?
Aye, it doth.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. It frustrates me to no end...
It frustrates me to no end when I go to see a Shakespearian play and all I hear is, "thou art a many folded cuckold" this, and "truly, 'twould be meet to do" that. Why can't they talk in good old fashioned 'muriken...?
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tjwmason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
30. Only when they do it badly.
Most cultures have adopted particular linguistic forms for use in religion - until the 19th century few, if any, Jews would have spoken Hebrew except in liturgical functions, the Arabic used in formal prayers is very different from that spoken in the souks of the Middle East...this practice is also found in Christianity, the Greek Orthodox use Koine Greek, the Russians use Church Slavonic, until recently the R.C.s used Latin, Egyptian Christians use Coptic, Ethiopian Christians use Ge'ez and so on and so forth.

Thus when English liturgies were first created in the 1540s a distinctive liturgical form of language was used. It goes far beyond merely replacing the formal pronouns with singular familiar and is a liguistic idiom not widely understood. When it is done well (cf. the Book of Common Prayer, 1662) it is a most gorgeous thing - however some fools don't get the extent of its differences and cadences and try to write their own new texts...failing utterly and sounding like idiots.
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
31. Rite I Anglicans and Episcopalians still use the KJV Bible.
I prefer the New Revised Standard Version, myself, for the most part.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
33. Selah.
סלה
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
34. In general, I don't get ticked off by people praying
it's all about connecting with the Divine, something bigger than ourselves, so what difference does it make what language one uses? :shrug: It's not my place to judge, as far as I see things.

It's all good. :hi:
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. I am reminded of a post
someone linked to on another forum where someone asked about reading the Bible in French and some recommended against it, saying it might not be accurate!

After all, it's gotta be in the language of Jesus - English!
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #36
50. Well, there ARE differences in translations. The Spanish
Reina Valera translation of the bible is quite different in spots from the KJV. Some verses have very different meanings.

I actually like the Reina Valera better in spots, it seems more poetic and it flows better.

I have no idea about the French translations. And of course, you're right; there is no empirical proof that the KJV is a more accurate translation than any others.
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tjwmason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. No empirical proof...
It is most widely thought that the Authorised Version (alias King James) is significantly less accurate - however when it has a different purpose, that of public proclamation, this isn't an important point.

If I were to recommend a Bible to somebody for the purposes of detailed study then the Authorised is about the last place I'd go - the linguistic formulations simply aren't familiar to the vast majority, and there has been very significant developments in our knowledge of the 'original' texts (we now have four ancient manuscript sources, for example).

That said, if I were looking to "create" formal public prayers, I would use those in the linguistic idiom of liturgical English and would use Biblical texts from the Authorised Version.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
37. Verily, it riles my soul.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. Verily, Nay, It Offendeth Me Naught.
Nay, it offendeth me naught.

Saith Me: Liveth and let liveth.
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Dervill Crow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
40. Nope.
As far as I am concerned, they can converse with their deity of choice any way they want.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. I've been known to pray in Sanskrit , Pali and Tibetan
And I don't even speak any of those languages. I have also been moved by masses in Latin and Church Slavic.

I'm rather fond of the King James Bible myself, though I'm not a Christian. It has a grandeur that a lot of modern translations lack. It's one of the two finest works every done by a committee: the other one is the US Constitution.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. O God, ease our suffering
O God, ease our suffering in this, our moment of great dispair. Yea, admit this kind and decent woman into thy arms of thine heavenly area, up there. And Moab, he lay us upon the band of the Canaanites, and yea, though the Hindus speak of karma, I implore you: give her a break.



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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. Er, no, 'cause I've got a life.
How a person prays is their own business and honestly, I'm not interested enough to get excited about it.
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. No, because my late grandmother used to pray that way.
And she was great, RIP. It does not matter language used, it only matters if you are praying out of love for God and God's creation.
Peace.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
46. Does it bother you? If so, why?
:shrug:
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ZombieNixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
47. Onlie if they fvccant hit up.
(Or would that be "Only if they up fuck it?")

Bit a grammar nazi here...in various languages. :P
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
52. I PREFER the King James prayers
They're often more heartfelt, much like the KJV Bible, even if I don't always agree with them.

The King James is the most accurate translation. The "new" translations, despite the sales pitches, mostly seem to just cover up for the inherent fallacies. Like changing "our image" to "my image" in Genesis (and conveniently rationalizing an understanding of Hebrew that even Rabbis adhering to a 3,000 year old history don't agree with), or inserting commas into Jesus' whipping-of-the-Pharisees scene in order to change the meaning.

My prayer: Please, God, gimme the 18th century again, disease and all...
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piesRsquare Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
55. Don't have much of a prob with that...
I'm Jewish...

We pray in Heeeeeeeeeeeebrew.... :)
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