Question for Prius owners

[spinbaby]

How is it in the snow?

I'm looking at buying one but it HAS to be decent in the snow. The dealer, of course, says it's great.

[Wheaty]

1. I have read some Prius forums

I have read some Prius forums that owners complain about the Prius traction control shutting down in the snow on a steep grade.

I would have snapped up a Prius in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the stories I was reading. I drive a 9% very winding grade through a State Forest every day to work and must go to work even if the roads are closed.

I bought a Highlander Hybrid last month. Not the great gas mileage as the Prius but had the 4WD to handle my commute.

YMMV though. If you don't have any steep hills to climb, you'll probably be good in the snow with the Prius as I hear it's good on the flats in the snow.

[spinbaby]

2. We do have hills

And I've read many of the same forums. But then, some people rave about how good they are in the snow.

I'm trying to decide between the really cool Prius and the cheap and sensible Civic. The Civic, I know, is pretty decent in the snow and also has an MP3 jack which the Prius doesn't. But, oh, the Prius is soooo coool.

[dpbrown]

9. I drove a Civic for 10 years

My Prius is just as good in the snow as my Civic was.

The new Priuses have an MP3 jack in the armrest for your iPod.

[billyskank]

19. I'd also recommend maybe a Land Rover Freelander

They are proper 4x4 vehicles, but relatively small, not gargantuan monsters. You can get them with modest turbodiesel engines that ought not to cost the earth in fuel.

That said, I've never owned one though, so can't testify to what they're really like. Just a thought to throw in there.

[garybeck]

3. Diesel is better than hybrid

http://www.solarbus.org/articles/060801-diesels.shtml

[spinbaby]

4. We had a diesel once.

Hated it. Had to keep a heated dipstick in it in the winter so it wouldn't congeal and refuse to start in the morning.

[garybeck]

6. I live in Vermont and have a diesel

When it gets very cold I plug it in. What's the problem with that. I minor hassle, considering the environmental and financial savings. I thought maybe you were looking at a hybrid because of the environmental benefits. Plugging a cord into an outlet is no big deal. I know dozens of people up here with diesel cars and everyone loves them. In fact it's almost impossible to find a diesel around here because of the high demand.

[Poiuyt]

8. Have you had any problems when you're not near an electrical outlet?

What if you commute to work and have to leave your car out in an open parking lot all day?

[garybeck]

11. There are things you can do about that.

That is admittedly the one problem - if you have to leave your car out in the bitter cold for many hours at time, where there is no electricity. It's really not a problem to leave it for a couple hours, but 8 hours might be trouble, when it's REALLY cold. My first advice is to ask at the business, if there is an outlet anywhere in the parking lot. Chances are that the light fixtures have electricity available. I have also heard of people keeping a extra deep cycle battery and small inverter in the vehicle which could provide the needed electricity.

Gary

[Dr_Funkenstein]

12. Just Curious

What is the total savings really? I mean, if a diesel is X% more efficient, but you have to leave it plugged into a 110 outlet for 8-10 hours...are you really saving any money or resources?

I'm not trying to be a dick, although it comes naturally...I'm just saying.

[billyskank]

22. Edit

Don't really know what I'm talking about.

[jobycom]

13. I own both. That isn't true for everyone.

It might be if you have the time and energy to commit to either making biodiesel or collecting and filtering waste oil, and if you live in the south where you don't have to plug in the blockwarmer all the time, and if you have a diesel that gets good mileage. Even if you make or buy biodiesel, it isn't petroleum free, since you have to use methanol to convert oil to biodiesel.

I've got an 82 Mercedes that gets about 20 mpg. It takes four to five gallons of methanol to create 20 gallons of biodiesel. I get about 50 mpg in the Prius. So, if everything goes smoothly, and I never have to stop and buy regular diesel on the road, I come out a little ahead if I run biodiesel instead of the Prius. To convert to veggie oil, I'd have to go with a two tank system, and since most of my drives--excluding road trips--are short, I'd run as much on diesel as on veggie oil. Again, I'd come out ahead with the Prius. And if you count road trips that burn over a tank of gas, you either have to transport veggie oil, beg for it on the road, pay for unused veggie oil at Walmart, or fill up with regular diesel.

No question for many people a diesel can be a better choice, but to flatly say "Diesel is better than a hybrid" isn't fair. It isn't better for all situations.

[billyskank]

21. Dude, your experience is not wrong, but you know

diesel engines are far better machines than they were 25 years ago. Cars with modern TDI engines sell like hot cakes all over Europe. They are super efficient and perform extremely well. In fact I would say to anyone considering buying a Prius; consider getting a VW Golf TDI instead. It'll be at least as efficient and a much better car to boot.

[jobycom]

23. Then there is the emissions factor

BTW, the VW Golf (called a Rabbit here) isn't sold as a diesel in American right now. Rumor is it will be in 08. You can get older ones, of course.

Diesel emissions are better than they used to be, and low-sulfur fuel helps, too, but diesels still environmentally suck, unless you are running biodiesel or veggie oil. Even then they still pollute, they just dump difference chemicals in the air. My diesel smells like fried chicken when I run biodiesel, so I know it's dumping something.

So unless you are able to run biodiesel or veggie oil full time, you will get equal mileage with a Golf or newer diesel but pollute a lot, and I mean a lot, more than with a Prius.

So for some they may work better, but not for everyone. For the average person who just pulls up to the nearest pump when they are running low, the Prius gets as good as or better (often much better) mileage, and pollutes much less. Much, much less.

As for the Golf being a better car than the Prius, I didn't like them as much when I drove them in 04. The interior materials seemed shoddier, and the seats weren't as comfortable. They didn't handle as well or feel as solid on the road. The mechanics I work around hate them, too. I drove a Passat, a Golf, and a Jetta. So, some people may prefer them, but that's not a given or an absolute.

[bullwinkle428]

5. If you were to buy a dedicated set of snow tires mounted on steel wheels,

I'm guessing it would provide the traction necessary to get through all but the worst kinds of winter conditions. The only advantage 4WD gives you in the snow is accelerating, which might be essential if you're dealing with hills, but otherwise, any FWD should perform without a problem if the tires are good...

[CabalPowered]

7. I've driven mine on snow covered highways but not mountain passes

or anything like that. The Prius will handle just fine in the snow as long as you follow the same rules you would for all other cars in snow. Drive slow and leave a good distance between other cars. I have the traction control system but it rarely engages. I put studded tires on in the winter and it's almost as mobile for city and highway as my older AWD Subaru. The Subaru is a bit wider and heavier. The Prius has a low center of gravity and most of the weight is near that point, as the batteries are under the rear bench.

:thumbsup:

[swag]

10. In the last big snowstorm in town,

my Prius handled better than all of the city buses and skidding SUVs on the road. Of course, I grew up and learned to drive in snowy Montana.

I made it to and back from work with plenty of traction.

[jobycom]

14. I own a Prius but live in central Texas, so I don't know no snow.

I've driven it on snow and ice, but mostly on the highway. No problems there. In general, it drives well, but it feels a little light on any surface. I could see that causing problems--it feels like it would skid or slide a little more easily than many cars. Same with rain. I know when I get caught in a downpour I really have to focus on anticipating slides and skids. I have driven it in some odd conditions, like mud and sand. Again, it does well. I guess it depends on what you are comparing it too. It's not a Jeep. I've driven cars that seemed worse on slick surfaces. So we're talking about a minor difference. Then again, I only have to deal with the stuff on rare occasion.

One more thing--I wear out tires faster than average on mine. My mechanic (we actually work together, so this wasn't a spiel) says he's heard that since the batteries are between the wheels, it changes something in the way the car holds the road. This something seems to wear out my tires faster. I don't know if it would affect handling on snow.

That's all I got. Not much. I wouldn't have jumped in, except you're getting so few responses so far, and I really like that car! :)

[spinbaby]

15. I like the car, too

I was really impressed with it for reasons besides mileage--the Prius is a very cool car with lots of room inside. However, I do worry about weather issues. I've also seen mention on some boards of expensive scheduled maintenance--I'm not sure what they mean by expensive and know that I've run up several hundred dollars on my Saturn at those intervals when every filter and fluid seems due for replacement.

I'm going to go take another test drive tonight.

[jobycom]

16. Can't say much about the schedule maintenance, but I can add one more thing about snow.

I work for an auto repair company, so I get brakes and oil and stuff done pretty much for free, aside from parts. I can say that the brakes wear out much slower than other cars, and the tires much faster, for me. And that so far nothing I've had done to the car was any more than a regular car. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

On the snow, I bought the car used. It had about 3000 miles on it, so it was barely used. I got it off EBay in early 2004, when there was a six to nine month waiting period. The guy I bought it from lived in Connecticut. He was selling it because his Mercedes and his Porsche were both silver, and he wanted his Prius to match. So he had ordered asilver one, but since there was a long wait, he bought a white one to use until the silver one came in. Nice, eh? I saw both the other cars, and his house, and his neighborhood, and I even Googled his name, so I know he had the money for that to be true.

Anyway, he drove it in the snow for three months before selling it, and he preferred it to his other cars, he said. He never talked about snow specifically, but there was a lot of snow when I picked it up, so I know he drove it in the snow. Of course, he could have been saying that just to sell me on the car, but I had already paid for it on EBay, so he really didn't have to.

And you're right, it's a cool car. It's bigger than an econo, with much better mileage, it's as quick as any four cylinder, and some six cylinders, I've driven. I do a lot of highway driving, so from Austin I've driven it to (actually from) Connecticut, to Albuquerque a few times, to Mississippi dozens of times, and to Florida many times. It's a good highway car. The mileage is great, it has no trouble cruising around 80 to 85 if you want (out in west Texas the speed limit is 80). It's quiet. It has a lousy stereo, but that's my only complaint.

[spinbaby]

17. Thanks for the input

Like I said, we're going back for another look tonight. It's either the Prius or the very sensible and also fuel-efficient Civic.

[Dr_Funkenstein]

18. Be Sure To...

Glue a coffee can on the muffler, and add a big wing...then you'll have a race-car.

[bleedingheart]

20. Howdy Spinbaby! I have a Prius and I love it...it does as well if not better

than my corolla did in the snow.

My husband and I generally log about 50-60 miles a day on ours and it is a really sweet car to drive...

We have bluetooth with it...love that too...my hubby is always on the phone for work but not at least he has handsfree...