Everyone in America should travel abroad

[Taverner]

I can always tell the difference between someone who has been abroad and someone who hasn't.

And those who have, tend to be Democrats.

[PVnRT]

1. As soon as I have money, sure

Until then, I've just been to Chichen Itza.

[Taverner]

2. That's somewhere

You've seen Mexico - albeit a small part of it

[TheMightyFavog]

3. I'm going to London for 2 1/2 months on the 2nd

Granted I'll be doing an internship, but I should have some time to sightsee on the weekend.

[tjwmason]

32. Lucky you

Sometimes I forget that I'm in a distinct minority having London a half-hour train ride away.

Hope you enjoy our fair country.

[Adsos Letter]

4. I agree...and around our own country, too.

Its good to get out and see how others live. I've been to Europe and all around the country, but the trips my wife and daughters have taken have had major impact on their perception of things.

Both of my daughters (eldest is 25 and going to med-school in Philadelphia, youngest is almost seventeen, and a junior) grew up fairly comfortably: stable home (29 years married), private school thru highschool, well loved by both her mom and I. But we made a conscious effort to get them out to see life.

As they each turned 14 my wife started taking them on trips to other countries with medical teams: Costa Rica (twice), Peru, Micronesia, Romania. It gave them a whole different perspective on life, and seemed to boost a desire to work in some field where they could make a difference, however large or small. Plus, despite the amount of sad situations in the world, there are also a lot of beautiful people and beautiful places.

[kwassa]

5. and my country should pay me to do so.

to expand my horizons.

[raccoon]

56. Join the military. You'll get to travel to other countries, and the US will pay you to do so. nt

[huskerlaw]

6. I will be soon!

I'm taking my first international trip this summer, 3 weeks in Belgium, the Netherlands and the UK.

And I agree, it would be great if everyone was able to go. Unfortunately, it can be a bit cost-prohibitive.

[stuntcat]

7. My Mama (scuse the rant)

My Mom raised a 100% Democrat. She 1st-married a musician, my Daddy the DJ, and always worked in social services or colleges, but she's never left the US and has hardly ever even flown anywhere. And lately I'm feeling guilt about the CO's I use if I fly anywhere but the last time I went down south to see her (at the mausoleum she shares with the Recrapican she married) she talked about some name-brandy B.S.
I don't know where I'm going, She's the last person I want to diss, I just wish she'd see more things instead of thinking so small-town.
I want to spend months with her, but away from any TV's or "nice things".. maybe I can convince her to take a trip with me soon, just walking down the Champs and getting lunch on the sidewalk would change how she sees things.

I apologize for venting, I'm having a Issue- she might be very sick and I want her to do something besides make other people's beds for the next few years. Thanks for listening maybe :grouphug:

[Adsos Letter]

9. I think maybe I only understand

a little of what you are saying, but it sounds like it hurts a lot.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[stuntcat]

46. thank you

hey Thank You, like for Real :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Initech]

8. I'd love to... but cant afford to!

I really want to go spend some time in Eastern Europe (especially Prague, Vienna, and Budapest), but I lack the money to be able to do so.

[terrya]

10. I've been to Canada.

If you're suggesting Europe, you'll have to buy that ticket for me, buddy. The money well is dry right now.

[HughBeaumont]

11. Sure, I'll just go in the back where the money tree grows and pluck some.

London - $991 for ONE ticket. I didn't even count taxes, hotel and food, or the fact that the American dollar has mediocre buying power there.

Paris - $1215 for ONE ticket. See above.

Rome - $1064 for ONE ticket.

I'd like to travel but I just don't have money to burn like that until I hit middle management, win the lottery or retire, whichever comes first. Even leaving a three state radius costs upwards of a grand total for three people, and forget about going to the west coast, which will run close to 2 grand after all is said and spent.

Plus there's too much going on with life to do that. Maybe when I was 26 and single but not now. The cost of living is exceeding our wages, I have a house to fix, and both of us have jobs that aren't very flexible when it comes to taking weeks off at a time.

[kay1864]

19. You're checking prices for the wrong time of year

Try Feb-Mar, or Sep-Oct. Tickets are around $400 round-trip from the East Coast.

Or check with friends who work for airlines. You can fly standby any time of year for that price.

Paris is cheaper than London. London is hellishly expensive for hotels and food. Paris you can stay for less than $100/night (use Rick Steves' guidebooks)

[HughBeaumont]

23. Even in Sept, Paris starts at $824, according to Expedia.com

I imagine Europe is probably cheaper than England in all aspects. The point is, it wouldn't be just ME going, it'd be three people. That's $2472 just for the flight.

[bicentennial_baby]

27. I've seen roundtrip tickets to Paris for as low as $150...

I have a Yahoo Low Fare Alert set up, and they come along all the time, especially for Iceland Air. Series!

[barb162]

63. Wow, that's an amazing fare.

[kay1864]

36. Of course--if you check Sept prices *today*

Fare sales typically occur at the end of summer. Or during early-mid winter.
E.g., you'll see fare sales for Jan-Mar in late Oct/early Nov.

[mark414]

45. don't ever fly into Paris

your best bet is to fly somewhere nearby and just take a train into Paris...

[kay1864]

51. Why the heck not?

Sheesh, if I'm going to visit Paris, I sure don't want to do a long train ride *after* an 8-hour plane ride.

I've been there 5 times, and their airport is no different from any other major European city.

[mark414]

53. cause you're always going to pay more

law of supply and demand, you know.

[kay1864]

54. That doesn't follow at all

Fares are typically about the same from X to Europe. You don't save any by flying into Nice or Marseilles or wherever.

What matters most is time of year--and whether you catch the fare sales or not.

[Jamastiene]

67. I totally get where you are coming from.

Of course, there will be tons of people telling you tons of rates for air fare in the hundreds of dollars as if it's nothing to spend that kind of money, take time off work, and just go travel the world. Must. Be. Nice. is what I have to say to those people who just do not understand.

[RebelOne]

12. Been there, done that, twice.

[TZ]

13. I agree that its expensive but well worth it..

Although I had been to Canada and the Bahamas before, last year I went to Aruba, which is culturally very different from anyplace I have ever been. A fascinating mix of European (Dutch) and Carribean with a splash of South American. In fact the dialect most people speak (outside of English) is a mix of English, Dutch, Spanish, and even a little Portugese as well. Very very interesting place! Bon Dia! (thats how they say good day)

[aQuArius]

14. I've been to Venezuela...

... and I loved it. AND I am a Democrat... pure coincidence? I think not! I've also been to Bulgaria... an amazingly, beautiful, eastern European country!!

[raccoon]

15. No arguments here. I've been to Mexico and to Europe.

But there have been times in my life when I just didn't have the do-re-mi, and that's the case with lots of people.

[AllegroRondo]

16. I got lucky - joined the Army and they paid me to travel

loved it!

2 years in Germany, one in Korea, with many many side trips to other places.

[XemaSab]

17. You'd be surprised

I have never left the country, and I'd like to hope I don't come off as being totally provincial.

I know people who have spent a lot of time abroad who are the most narrow-minded bigots around.

For example, there's a girl at work who says she can't share an office with my homie (who is Chinese) because of "cultural differences." :eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. yes, or atleast those who really want to travel, especially to a non english speaking country.

[Orsino]

20. I dunno.

Might be safer to institute such a program after a few years of a Democratic president.

[Fleshdancer]

21. I just got back from Kuala Lumpur 2 weeks ago

If I had it my way, every American would be given the opportunity to spend 2 weeks in a foreign country where the majority of the people don't look or act anything like them. Everyone should experience what it's like to be the minority at least once in their lifetime.

Unfortunately traveling out of the US can be very expensive. I just wish more Americans had enough vacation time to at least travel to more states or Canada and Mexico. We work too damn hard over here.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. Not a bad idea. It would help if more Americans even traveled within their own country.

I do have a different experience in terms of matching political party affiliation with travel experience. I've know a lot of world travelers who are conservative and Republicans. Among those that I've encountered who have lived abroad, as opposed to just visited, there do seem to be very few who aren't Democrats.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. Exactly--I had this discussion with an American expat in Japan

a couple of years ago.

He noted that of his extended the family, the ones who had never left their own county were the most conservative.

Among my own siblings, I'm the farthest left. I've lived in Japan, traveled in Asia, and mingled with immigrants and emigres all my life. Next comes the brother who has visited Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean as an adult. The Republican in my family is the brother who has never left the U.S. as an adult.

I differentiate those who either live in a foreign country for at least a year OR take the budget travel route from those who go on Hilton-hopping tours of the world. If you go on frequent flyer forums, you'll find people who fly paid first class all over the world and argue over whether the Hilton or the Marriott in various world capitals has better suites, but their political opinions are somewhere in the troglodyte range.

I also agree that living in a society where I didn't look like the majority was an instructive experience. You gain a better understanding of racism when you are constantly stereotyped for the way you look.

[never cry wolf]

24. Agreed

'78-'79 school year I spent in Europe, U of I has a campus in Versailles and I was lucky enough to qualify. There was the OPEC embargo a couple of years earlier but muscle cars were still the fad in suburban Chicago and my parents still drove an Old's 88 that got 13 mpg, and people drove if they went anywhere. Culture shock upon landing at Orly, cars were tiny, people were walking, riding bikes and mopeds. I eventually became familiar with the wonderful, cheap and popular mass transit all across the continent both intra-city and inter-city. Thermostats were kept low in the winter and you had to ask special if you wanted ice in your drink. A shower at the train station cost about $1, if you wanted hot water it was $5. We were affiliated with the University of Paris so the cost was cheaper than a year in Champaign, the French students paid nothing. Someone in our school broke an arm, was taken to the hospital, treated and released all for the cost of $0.

This was nearly 30 years ago and we in this country are still so far behind....

[cobalt1999]

25. I agree about everyone should travel abroad, I don't believe those who have tend to be Dems.

Judging from the people I know anyway.

[bikebloke]

26. It changed me

When Freddie Laker dropped the fares and the rest followed, I went to Europe. And I actually preferred it over there. I wish I could have found a way to stay legally. So I kept going back, then travelling further and learning languages. Thus far, I've trod upon five continents.

[AlCzervik]

28. Agreed.

We went to London last year, my daughter was 11 at the time and she loved it, she was amazed at what "Really old" looks like and the museums!1 My God the museums are wonderful! Next summer it's off to Scotland.

[JitterbugPerfume]

29. and if you can't afford travel

read , read ,read

and them read some more.

My sis recently moved to England (she is marrying a handsome Englishman at age 67!) and I can't wait to visit her , and see Europe!

[Gormy Cuss]

62. Very good point.

If you can't go there yourself, books can help you understand other parts of the world.

[Jamastiene]

69. That's true.

Sometimes, for people who cannot afford to travel, reading can be another form of travel. Broadening one's horizons begins and ends in the mind and not necessarily where a person has been.

[tjwmason]

31. Slight correction

Everyone who can should travel abroad.

Why limit it to Americans?

[billyskank]

35. Great minds, good sir.

:hi:

[cally]

33. It's not that simple

My father went overseas many times on business trips. He's 79 and sort of supports *. I've taken my daughter overseas several times. She's now a libertarian which I hope is a college rebellion.

[billyskank]

34. Everyone outside of America should travel abroad too

Unless they haven't got the money, in which case they're excused.

[LSK]

37. one of these years I will take a summer off and travel Europe by train

[DFW]

38. Get outta here!

If you can afford it, moneywise and timewise, that is.

I was one of the lucky ones: saw lots of countries in Europe,
Latin America and Asia before I was 30. Then got myself a job
that takes me to Europe a LOT and Latin America and Asia on
occasion.

It opened my eyes to the big wide world out there, and convinced
me totally that there are a LOT of other "ways of life" out there,
and that those who go abroad and complain about not finding the
nearest Burger King, or that people don't speak Amurriken everywhere
are already so closed-minded that they should have been denied a
passport, lest they impugn the good name of the United States the
second they set foot in another country.

I got to take a year of high school in what was then the waning
period of the fascist dictatorship in Spain, met people from all
over Europe, met people who would never be able to afford to travel,
people who would never learn English, and yet had plenty to say.

Best of all, I got to meet my wife, a native of the flat rural farm
conutry of northwestern Germany, and our daughters are now completely
at home on either continent (and you better BELIEVE they are Democrats:
anything that carries the slightest whiff of intolerance evokes their
swift and thunderous wrath).

As I work in Europe a lot, we maintain a house here, where my wife works
as a social worker. The weather sucks, and we enjoy our trips to the USA
when we both get time off, but there is also something to be said for having
this in your back yard:


It was there for about 900 years before our back yard was our back yeard,
but we never claimed to be the chicken, and the castle never claimed to be
the egg.

[mark414]

39. i'm leaving in 3 weeks

for a summer in ireland, england, france, spain, italy, belgium, netherlands and i guess whatever countries i really feel like visiting...

[DFW]

40. That's a good start!

And bring along a phrase book.
No one expects you to learn Dutch or Italian
in a week, but man do they EVER appreciate it
if you make at least a token gesture.

[ForrestGump]

41. Yes. But also...no.

Not everyone has the resources.

And there may be other impediments, such as family and other commitments. And it seems a bit odd to me, but I am sure that there are also people with a broad worldview who have no special desire or need to travel even if they do have the resources.

I disagree about the contention that travelers tend to be Democrats. I have seen plenty of people who travel extensively who are demomonstrably not 'progressive.' Further, I have seen a great many people -- unfortunately, had to deal with some of them -- who travel but never really see anything. These are people who never leave the comfortable confines of their ethnocentrism and truly experience the place, the culture, and the people that they're visiting. Americans tend to produce prime examples of this type, and certainly some of the loudest and most noticeable, but I can name a half dozen other countries that are noted in different parts of the world for exporting significant numbers of tourists who are clueless, and don't find anything wrong with that, or who are basically well known for tending to be obnoxious.

The nature of travel has a lot to do with it, too. I have always seen a strict difference between 'tourists' and 'travelers.' Tourists, under my definition, can be royal pains. I grew up in a place afflicted by them and their stupidity and self-centered destructiveness and have since come to realize that if many or most tourists are not inherently morons at home they sure are when they leave it. Travelers may do exactly the same things as tourists, and travel in the same ways (and, yes, much of my traveling has been of the backpacker variety but I'm not going to deny that any other kind, including coach tours and the like, is any less valid because what is ultimately most important is the perception of the traveler, not how they're conveyed about or what they sleep), but they do so with their eyes open. There is little less infuriating to me than encountering a tourist in some far-flung part of the world who does not even know the basics of that country, the kind of thing that anyone heading to that part of the world should know, like how to pronounce the country's name and that of its capital.

If you really want to experience a different culture, or to gain a real appreciation of how the world sees, for example, your home country, try living overseas. Again, this'd do no good to those who refuse to participate in the local community -- among Americans, this is very often true of military or other expat communities where American schools, McDonald's, and bowling alleys have been installed to make the place feel more like home -- but it can definitely do a number on preconceptions and inevitable ethnocentricity. I've lived in a country other than my natal one for over half my life now, including 2-1/2 years in a third country (with extended stays in various other countries for my work), and the experience has been an interesting one, though very occasionally I feel a little schizoid about it. I don't recommend switching countries for the fun of it, but I am saddened by people who say that they could never live anywhere else but where they were born whether it's for reasons of fear or jingoism.

Travel has always meant a lot to me and was encouraged in me since I was very young. I've traveled many, many thousands of miles on foot, by sea, by air, and in various vehicles and a huge part of my life has revolved around travel not just for my work but for its own sake...exploring. But not everyone can leave their home country for even a small trip. To expect them to do so is unrealistic and represents a kind of careless arrogance that is as blinkered as that of people to whom travel and knowledge are anathema. In a place like the US, the regional differences are such (in geography, culture, and otherwise -- yes, even in this increasingly homogeneous nation united by chain stores and motels and cookie-cutter freeway strips and malls) that traveling within the country is very much like crossing national borders. Although it may not seem so in smaller nations, it is very much so there, too. Because the truth is that travel and broadening one's horizons can happen without leaving home, at least to those with a willing and curious mind. It can even happen without leaving one's room. Lao Tzu nailed it: arrive without traveling.

[SmokingJacket]

42. Are you a shnob?

Plenty of smart people don't have the means or wherewithal to travel.

[last_texas_dem]

43. Hmm... I don't know that I agree with it being any sort of political indicator

I would think whether someone has traveled abroad or not has more to do with their financial status than anything else. Additionally, I would think someone's having a liberal political leaning, especially concerning world affairs, would have far more to do with the amount they have read about and thought about such issues and very little to do with whether they had the time and money to visit a couple of countries outside of the U.S.

[Xithras]

44. I went to Alabama once. Does that count? (j/k)

I've briefly been into Mexico, Japan, and Australia. I can't really say I've travelled though, because I was in each of those nations...in order...for 2 hours, 10 hours, and 12 hours (I was actually kicked out of Australia because my passport was screwed up...it took 12 hours for them to process me and stick me back on the next US bound flight. I missed my meeting, so I didn't go back (sad too, because my company had paid for a four day stay, and 3 of those were my own to do whatever I wanted).

[july302001]

47. 'possums don't need visas

ha ha ha Alabammy don't count. :silly:

Whether you're agin' or down 'wif' 'Bama...it's still part of 'merica. If you see a possum cross the road, it's a U.S. citizen, even though it's a marsupial like its relatives in Oz-land. :D

Tho' it's been a while, I've done my share of traveling - Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, Nica, Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary....

Sorry to hear about the passport problems Down Under. It would have been a great place to chill!

[Xithras]

52. Actually, I thought Alabama was cool.

This from a native and lifelong Californian. The atmosphere of the place was completely different from anything I was used to (and I'm not just referring to the humidity). While a few people were a little tough to understand (seriously, I didn't realize how thick the southern accent could be), every single person I met was considerate and welcoming. Regional stereotypes aside, southern hospitality is still alive and well.

[usaftmo]

48. Exactly. I've been to...

Japan, South Korea, Panama, Italy, Austria, Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Mexico.

I think everyone should live outside the States for at least 2 years; I've been overseas 7 years.

[Duppers]

49. not necessarily

my mother has been 'abroad' at least 3 times and she's still an idiot...err, a republican!

Me? I've hopped the pond 6 times, but I don't think you could tell. ;)

[wickerwoman]

50. Except for all the sex tourists...

I guess I'm jaded but most of the Americans in my neck of the woods are here to sleep with the tiniest, youngest Asian women they can afford. Lots of Repugs. And I used to work with the biggest born-again Bushbot you could imagine... he's married but hasn't lived in the same country as his wife for the past three years. Things that make you go hmmm....

[erpowers]

59. Where Do You Live?

I would like to know where you live. I am just curious about what country you are staying. If possible I would like to know who the Bushbot is.

[Felix Mala]

55. Does traveling as a broad count?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

57. I do, but hate the people that are sanctimonious over it.

Being intellectually curious is one thing. Coming back and saying that everyone's better than America is just ignorant. Fact is, no one's better or worse - it's all just different.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

58. I'm an American LIVING abroad

and I can't even afford to travel a few hundred miles down the road to Italy right now. Oy. General sales tax was just raised to 19%. Buying your own "home" is an impossible dream. Wages are pathetic. Sure, travel abroad but don't labor under the false impression that things are hunky dory over here in Europe. They aren't!

[erpowers]

60. Any Solutions

Do you have any solutions for the problems? Should people in those countries get paid more money? Should taxes be decreased? Can the countries decrease the taxes? Does the country you live in have a national health care system and does the national health care system cause some of the problems?

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

70. I can't reinvent the wheel

with answers to your questions. There are a lot of problems with the European model. People are over taxed and under paid but there is also big problems with a lack of competitiveness here, as well as low birth rates and a really shitty health care system (been there) that doles out care based on public or private coverage that can mean the difference between life and death. People in Europe are depressed. Just like in America. Which was my original point.

[erpowers]

61. France

I would like to go to France mainly to see how the policies of the country work.

[cemaphonic]

64. The cost is certainly non-trivial

My wife and I blew about $5000 on a two week trip to England a few years ago. And we were staying with friends, so almost all of our lodgings and half of our meals didn't cost a thing. There are certainly cheaper ways to become educated about the rest of the world. And the point upthread about people "travelling abroad" via cruise ships and 5-star hotels is certainly true.

And yet, I agree in a way. My parents were living in Brussels while I was in college, so as government employees, they were able to fly me back to stay with them during the summers at government expense (so thanks everyone who was paying taxes in the mid-90s!). So I was able to travel around for a few weeks every summer, on top of living in a very cosmopolitan city like Brussels. I feel like I leared a ton, and I've always been interested in history and geography.

Perhaps we need a better social safety net, and a cultural shift from the default of starting work as soon as you finish your education and not stopping until you can fund retirement or drop dead trying. Many young Australians spend a year or more traveling once they finish school, and Australia is even more remote from the rest of the world than we are. It's hard to imagine anyone with typical student loans in the US being able to do this.

[grace0418]

65. I want to visit every continent before I die, extensively. Well, maybe not the south

pole so extensively, but I'd like to see it once maybe. So far I've been to Europe and Asia (besides North America, natch). Within the next year or so I plan to visit Australia and New Zealand. This fall we'll be going back to Europe.

[Jamastiene]

66. Snob.

What about those of us who haven't traveled abroad, yet we are still Democrats? What are we? Flukes? Outsiders? Idiot poor people beneath your status in life? Less than human? I get it. I know the answer. Snob.

[JackDragna]

68. I agree wholeheartedly.

When I went to Scotland, I was struck by how friendly, genuine and carefree the people seemed compared to Americans. They put family, friends and having a good time over owning things and being selfish. Their society is ripe with culture and an understanding of the interconectedness of the world. It's amazing how living near other countries makes one more tolerant.