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I'm back from my colloquy, ask me anything

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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:17 PM
Original message
I'm back from my colloquy, ask me anything
After a beautiful week on Cape Cod - comhination of great weather, pleasant nights for sleeping, and most especially time with good friends, new friends, and nmore importantly exceptional and educational and stimulating converations with deep thinkers and devoted theologians - I am back in NYC suffering from humidity, heat, noise, and more humidity.

Ask me anything! If I don't know the answer, I'll make a convincing lie! And that's better than you get from the White House now.

heck, I just realized I should run for the presidency on that idea, and I might win! "At least I'm a *convincing* liar!"
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Itascapark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. So, are there lies
that tell the truth?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Good question
I should think that, in a sense, yes there are some lies that tell the truth, or at least a partial truth. Sometimes, in the way a lie is worded, especially if done say in diplomacy, you can tell it is a lie and understand the truth in that.

Or sometimes in a white lie kind of way, or polite kind of way, one can "lie" as a way to save face for both parties, to generate the truth and the truly equitable solution desired by both sides. (cf., the japanese trait of phrasing their "no" as a "yes", but in a way that those in the culture will reocognize).

And sometimes, in an outright lie, such as, just to grab an example at random, this administration, might actually hold some unintentional truths in it; truths that the liar likely doesn't realize she/he is offering.

That's my short answer on that one.
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Itascapark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thank you
Having spent many years in the theatre (a play, after all, is a kind of lie that tells the truth) it's good to here other "real world" opinions on the subject.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. ooh, theater is another great example
Didn't even think of that one, but yeah, theater - and novels, and etc. - are also "lies that tell the truth".

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inthecorneroverhere Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is there a role for ethics and morals anymore?
Yeah, I know that was a big 'ask me!' LOL!

What'd the bigwigs in Mass say on this?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Oh yes, definitely there is a role
Morals and ethics are the fibers that hold a community together and make it work well.

over time, some ethics and morals will change (ending slavery, allowing women to serve as ministers, the constant shifting morality over men's hair length, etc.), some others remain fairly constant throught all cultures over time (murder is bad, stealing is bad, etc.).

There are some in this post-modern age, though, who would say taht ethics and morals are purely contextual and cultural - and in many ways they are true, and much of what we think of as "moral" and "ethical" needs to be rethought, but I submit that there is a core, foundational ethic and morality, that all humans in the globe can agree on. And unlike what the Christian Right might like to say on this, if we, as a world, DO agree on a foundational basis, we will ALL need to change our behavior.

The rightists would answer this dilemma with "we must all be Christians". The more liberal minded might be willing, such as I am willing, to say it's not about one's religion (though religion has an important effect, and some religious expressions are inherently anti-world-community, e.g., fundamentalist Islam or Christianity), it's about one's ACTIONS. Morals and ethics might come from a religious sensibility, but ulimately, just cuz you say "I'm a Chrsitian" or post the ten commandments in the schools, that does not mean one is moral or ethical.

And as a world community, i think we need to agree on this base ethic: All people are created equal, have an equal right to the pursuit of happiness, have an equal right to a non-polluted environment, equal right to education, equal right to religious expression, equal right to cultural expression, and equal right to choose their own governmental process (though I should think democracy is the most inherently ethical), SO LONG AS none of those expressions intrude on the rights of others. So, all should have a right to religious expression, unless you're religious expression is "Everyone must be my religion if they are to be left alive by me!".

If we go with that basic foundational belief, and I think that's a good base system on which to form world community, it will require many changes in behavior in our own culture and government, as well as others. But I think it will make a much better world. Imagine a world in which DOW Chemical says "We will stop making this, because no one in the world deserves to have the waste product dumped on their land." Or imagine Americans saying "No, I will take a reusab;e mug to work so that I don't force petroleum waste products on people of the world." That would be cool.

And, as a side comment of a selfish nature, perhaps it would mean we open the American market to Cuban cigars again. :-)

Most everything else is just fluffery. The clothing one wears is NOT a moral/ethical choice. The kind of facial hair a men has is NOT a moral/ethical choice. Whether a woman is completely covered or not is NOT a moral/ethical choice. And, to be honest, expecting women to cover their breasts in public is not a moral/ethical choice. At least, none of these are the sense of foundationally important moraql/ethics, since the above mentioned ones might be specific religious ideas, but are not what one could ever call universal human moral/ethics.
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Interrobang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. What was your colloquy about?
...and am I liable to find the subject matter interesting? ;-)
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The topic was "ecumenism"
"How can we all come to the table together"

So, not knowing anything of you, I have no idea if you would find it interesting. And though I find ecumenism very important, I wasn't so sure how it would play out as a weeklong conference (in comparison to other things I cuold think of for a subject). But it ended up being quite excellent, mostly because of the conversations I had with noted ecumenists and church leaders who have been involved for 50 years and more on the topic.

Your mileage may vary, though. :-)
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short bus president Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Do you pronouce "hermeneutic" as
"hur-meh-noo-tick" or "air-meh-noo-tick," and if you were a believer/practitioner of this particular mode of pondering ethical problems, would you be "a hermaneut" or "an hermaneut?"

And couldn't we have a more appealing word for it, anyway?

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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. hur-meh-NOO-tick
Though I imagine in England, it would be a bit different, and there, they might say "an hermeneut"

Though really, no one is a/n hermeneut. One approaches a problem with a hermeneutic.

I like the hermeneutics of suspicion. :-)
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