I'm on the brink of firing an employee...

[NewWaveChick1981]

:( I don't want to, but she's fairly toxic and she's not doing a good job at all. She's on vacation this week, and so much has come to light in the past couple of days that a written warning is unavoidable. When she gets back on Monday, she gets two weeks to show a big improvement. Otherwise, I've got to let her go for the sake of the office and the students. :(

I don't like making those kinds of decisions, but in this case, I have to. I have my boss's full support, and I'll handle it in the best way possible. It still makes me feel bad for her, though.

[ohiosmith]

1. Want me to do it for ya?

[NewWaveChick1981]

2. Would you???

That's very generous of you. :) I'd better do it myself, though. I don't want anyone else to have to do my dirtywork. :(

[ohiosmith]

4. No problem. If you change your mind, you know where to find me.

[datasuspect]

3. how "subordinate" is she?

where is she in the pecking order?

what is she in relationship to the power culture in your office subculture?

[NewWaveChick1981]

10. She's at the bottom of the totem pole.

She's our receptionist/file clerk, and I'm the director. I've spoken with her on several occasions about the issues, so she knows what the problems are. I'm definitely not trying to be mean or anything---this is a legitimate action based on facts, not emotions or hearsay. I've only had to do this one other time at another school, and that time, it was warranted. (That one was a dishonest employee.)

The good thing is that I don't play the "power" game in my office. Everyone's pretty much on the same plane, but they report to me. I'm actually an easy boss to work for, and she's had every opportunity to show improvement.

[datasuspect]

21. that really is a mind-numbing position

a high-visibility/low-power kind of job.

everything she does or doesn't do is scrutinized.

in fact, the person in that position has to be something other than human for 8 hours per day.

her physical body as it is positioned in the workspace is probably the only one that has at least 80% visibility (surveillance) at all times.

although her tasks are miniscule (and people probably resent her for sitting there doing what appears to be "nothing.") they are probably the most scrutinized in the organization, next being the administrative assistants and other lesser clerks.

she is probably paid the least.




not saying this is the case, but i've noticed this before.

[skygazer]

32. It doesn't have to be mind-numbing

So much of that comes from what people bring into their jobs. Obviously, if the OP is having cascading problems all over the department from this person's failings, their job is critical to the smooth operation of the whole. Which is the way many people look at their job, whether it's low-level or not.

A person has the choice of taking their job seriously and properly doing what they're paid to do or having a lousy attitude and feeling like a punching bag. I've seen plenty of people in that sort of job who are considered a valuable asset to the office and I've seen people who are perceived as you describe. A whole lot of that is THEIR attitude, not neccessarily anyone else's.

I don't have a lot of patience for the attitude that just because a position is entry-level or at a lesser rate of pay, they somehow have the right to do a crappy job of it. If you take a job, you have a responsibility to do it. Period.

[datasuspect]

37. there is no questioning that

but i can't 100% fault someone in that type of position who eventually gets sour.

i've seen temps hired to do that type of position who have had more education than i have.

sometimes, a company isn't as in tune as it should be when it seeks to staff these positions.

they're great for young people, people who like the work, and people who could potentially grow from the experience of being a receptionist.

but when you get companies that require a four year degree for low-level admin and clerical postions, i can see where disaffection can set in.

like i said before, there's two sides to every story, but i'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is powerless in the power structure/relationship.

injustice slides downwards.

[BluePatriot]

49. *nods*

"...when you get companies that require a four year degree for low-level admin and clerical postions, i can see where disaffection can set in."


dingdingding, that one's me!!! I've since been moved up a rung but am still bored. Still can't stand the "politics" here. It's not the "man" that keeps people down, it's all the damn HENS in the office (and I say this as a woman, I know it's pejorative, but...ugh)

[NewWaveChick1981]

42. Actually, the way we have things set up here, she's totally human all day.

:) This is a small liberal arts college, and the administration here treats its employees in the sanest, most humane way I've ever seen. From the cleaning staff to administrative assistants to the President, everyone here is treated with respect and dignity. I've never worked in another place that has treated employees any better. :)

[Taverner]

5. I can't imagine making those kinds of decisions as easy

Good luck :hug:

[NewWaveChick1981]

11. Thanks. It's definitely not easy.

:hug: :( I don't take decisions like this lightly.

[jobycom]

6. Wear that robe

and bat your lashes... she won't be as upset. :)

Okay, not really a good idea, but it was time for a robe reset. :)

[NewWaveChick1981]

15. LOL.... Yeah, I think I'd better leave the robe at home for this one...

:P :hi:

[bleedingheart]

7. how long has she been doing this job?

there are people who are toxic from the beginning and people whose job makes them toxic....

[NewWaveChick1981]

16. She's been here a year. She was in a totally different profession

before this one and was in that profession for about 20 years. She's been negative since the beginning, and from what I can tell, she's always been negative. I've tried to take her under my wing since I got here in December, but it hasn't worked. :(

[Writer]

8. That's one of the hardest things to do, from what I understand.

But it sounds like it's a very good move to make, especially if she's a "toxic" employee. And kudos to you for noticing it and taking action on it. Too many toxic employees are left too long in the workplace.

[datasuspect]

14. toxicity is a two way street.

it depends on how low the targeted candidate for termination stands in relation to higher-level figures in the office culture.

sometimes they just don't like you and use all kinds of clean, technical words to pathologize a person and make them the culprit.

if you have no voice in the matter, what difference does it make what you think?

not saying this is case here, but that's what lawsuits against former employers are good for.

there is ALWAYS something actionable in the work environment.

when i've been in the "leading up to termination/paper-trail building phases" of a job, i'll often drop the "actionable behavior on the part of senior management" card.

the funny thing is, 99% of the time, the allegations i can bring are true. and documented.

in the corporate world, i have noticed a trend: low power/low authority black women are more likely to encounter this in the workplace. administrative assistants for some reason are easy prey for this type of ritual on the part of managers and hr. and it is a dance.

[NewWaveChick1981]

22. I know that happens all the time.

The thing about our office is that it is very small, and I try to maintain an open door (both literally and figuratively) for everyone. I have embraced the challenge of guiding her and helping her, and she appeared to respond well to that. However, she's been slacking off on the job and giving wrong information intentionally, and since she's not here this week to cover her tracks, her errors and sloppiness are showing themselves. She's tried to hide mistakes even after I told everyone in the office (and I meant it) that human beings make errors and to immediately bring me an error or problem. I won't get mad if they do that---we can fix whatever it is and go on about our business. There are lots of other issues here as well, but they all have to do with accuracy, follow-up, and customer service. Yesterday, I began documenting problems as I found them, and I found 26 glaring problems yesterday alone. Today, it's been 14 so far. I've had students in my office, either frantic or pissed off, because of bad information she gave them or because she fouled up their records in various ways. This is not due to lack of training---I have personally spent many hours training her on things.

Bottom line is that she's just not cut out for this job and she's not really even trying. :(

[datasuspect]

40. i hope she isn't in a union

anyway, CYA.

document, document, document.

i wish you and her luck.

it can be rough dealing with personalities. some people are very difficult, but they often have the track record and results that offset their personality.

no one will take you to task for what is essentially shuffling overhead.

[NewWaveChick1981]

17. Thanks, Writer. It's very difficult..

:( For the sake of our school and our students, it has to be done.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. i've had to fire a few. always sucks.

[NewWaveChick1981]

23. Yes, it does.

:hi: :hug:

[PVnRT]

12. I don't envy your position, but...

...there is no place on the job for assholes. Period. I don't care how experienced they are, how much they know, whatever - they need to be gone. The morale and cohesiveness of your employees is a thousand times more important than keeping one jerk around.

[NewWaveChick1981]

24. Yes.

:hi: It's a sad situation.

[wildhorses]

13. so much has come to light in the past couple of days --

what does that mean exactly:shrug:

[datasuspect]

19. it could mean that people were really busy while the person in question were gone

1. notify IT and get logs/reports of internet activity and email content.

1a. get the telephone guy to generate logs of telephone activity (really easy to do in offices that have VoIP).

2. get with hr. to find the correct form for the personnel action report, shoot the shit to confirm documented information and get further advice

3. consult with immediate supervisor (maintain heavy email paper-trail with many cc:'s.

4. bring the candidate for termination into the office with hr rep or high-level management member (or both) at 4:30 on friday afternoon.

4a. call security and have them escort the terminated person off the property.


avalanches of gossip, innuendo, power plays, sabotage occur prior to this point on the behalf of both parties.

[NewWaveChick1981]

25. She's been on vacation since Monday, and I've had to pinch-hit for her at times.

As I've done her job this week, I have found so many problems it's mind-boggling. These are things that should not be happening, and yet in instance after instance, they have shown up.

[wildhorses]

30. how long has she been there? how old is she?

i understand if it is unavoidable...i just wanted to make sure it wasn't a case of sh*t rolling down hill, what with her being at the bottom and all.

also i have seen in an all girl office where they gang up on the one that is gone in order to hide the fact that they are not really doing thier jobs.

not saying this is the case in this situation...just clarifying in my own mind what is happening

[NewWaveChick1981]

33. Thanks, wildhorses...

She's been here a year and she's in her late 40s. Age has nothing to do with why I would terminate her. Very few people believe me when I tell them I am only looking at the facts and not other factors, but it's true.

[wildhorses]

36. i just read your post #22

looks bad for her...

hate it for you.

but, would rather be the fire-er than the fire-ee (sp)

:hug:

[SPKrazy]

18. You have to do what is best for your organization

it's hard to make those decisions but they have to be made.

I've had to fire two people and I hated it both times. But they both needed to go because they were toxic, not doing their job, and sabotaging things right and left by their vitriol and passive aggressive behaviors.

Luckily it was fully supported and even encouraged by my boss and we did it together.

good luck and I'm sure you will handle it as well as this can ever be handled...

:hug:

[NewWaveChick1981]

26. Thanks, SPK...

:hi: :hug: I've made this decision with just the facts in mind, and they all point to termination.

[SPKrazy]

45. Bidness is bidness

and sometimes it ain't pleasant

but it's still bidness!

:hug:

[davsand]

20. Is the pain of dealing with her greater than the pain of firing her?

That is how I measure it. IF the pain of dealing with the employee is greater than the pain of having to fire them it is time to cut your losses. It sucks, but I always figured that people fire themselves, really. If she's been warned about job performance issues and if you think you have done an adequate job of expressing what exactly you are looking for, then you have to wonder how seriously she's taking the job.

On a completely different level, if she's creating problems for your other employees, then how fair is it to THEM if you allow her to continue? I dunno, maybe I'm just a hard-ass but I figure I owe something to the rest of that team, too.

FWIW, I literally threw up after the first time I fired an employee...



Laura

[NewWaveChick1981]

27. That's right on, Laura...

:hi: Everything you have said is dead on. I'm not really a hardass, but I have a very strong sense of fairness.

[Heidi]

28. Please take some time to review the situation objectively and be certain

that she's not a victim of office politics. It sounds like you've already decided, but please approach this situation with a clear head and a compassionate heart. :hi:

[NewWaveChick1981]

31. That's exactly the approach I'm taking, Heidi.

:hi: I appreciate the input. I've decided to give her a chance to redeem herself, and if she does not show improvement after this chance has been handed to her, then I know what I have to do. I am only judging the situation on job performance criteria and leaving emotion and office politics out of it. Believe it or not, I have learned to do that, and I'm always conscious of how I handle myself in every situation. I'm a very compassionate person, and I'll do what's right without being tactless.

[skygazer]

29. That's just the worst

I hate firing people, whether they deserve it or not. Telling someone they no longer have a job is a form of power I don't really enjoy wielding.

That said, it sometimes has to be done and it sounds like you've given her many chances and assistance to get it together. If her work is adversely affecting the people you serve, it's obvious what needs to be done.

My old boss had a stock saying for those times he had to terminate someone. He'd gently tell them, "Not everyone is cut out for this job." Lessened the sting a wee bit, I think.

[NewWaveChick1981]

34. Thanks, skygazer...

:hi: I don't enjoy this particular aspect of my job either. I have never liked having to tell someone they're no longer employed. I've only had to do it one other time in my career, and I hated it then too. But it may have to be done.

[Aristus]

35. Firing somebody has got to be a pretty tough thing to do.

I know there are jerk bosses out there who LOVE it; but most people would seem to be justifiably wary of it.

First, one never knows if the subject is going to go off the deep end, making life miserable for you and everyone else.

Second, if they are not the "off-the-deep-end" type, they'll still probably be hurt and upset, and who wants to cause that?

I don't envy you, NWC. Looks like you may have a tough task ahead of you. I hope she improves, though, and spares you the difficulty.

Meantime, here's a hug to keep you going. :hug:

[NewWaveChick1981]

43. Thanks, Aristus.

:hug: I hate having to do this if it comes down to firing.

[NightWatcher]

38. let her go on a Friday, if you have to fire her.

Studies show that friday firings are the least controversial and least likely to lead to drama because they have the weekend to cope with the firing. Also, they are less likely to get crazy.

[datasuspect]

39. my last full time job

i got wind of my firing on a wednesday and confronted my superiors about it.

they were trying to de-delegate my calendars but didn't do it right so i could still see what they were righting.

the meeting where they discussed my termination was in a slot i wasn't supposed to see, so i went to them and said, "you guys are pretty slick, so when's the cast off" or something like that.

they were flabbergasted.

i took the rest of the afternoon off, called in sick on thurdsay and came in at 2 on friday (sick days).

walked into the office and said, let's do this, they made me wait at my desk, the north american regional vice president sat in on it (former marine corps guy, late 50s, but beefy and rich as fuck).

i was congenial. i thanked them when they walked me to the elevator.

i waived my right to future litigation for a settlement right on the spot.

initial offer was 1 month of severance. got 6 months out of them, but i signed some iron clad documents that essentially means i shouldn't probably be writing this post or something.

unemployment kicked in and i got drunk for about a year. i hardly remember it.

[wildhorses]

41. d00d!!!

that sounds like something i would do!!

except for the 'drunk for about a year' part:P

that there is some heavy drinking:wow:

[libnnc]

44. if you end up letting her go...

can I have her job? I'm cheap and quiet. Mind my own beeswax usually. I can type. And I don't smell.


I kid, really. Just joking--But not by much...:evilfrown:



Hope you get the problem resolved to the satisfaction of all involved. O8)

[NewWaveChick1981]

48. Thanks, libnc...

:hi: I'll keep that in mind! :) You never know....

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

46. Sounds like you got the steps down ...

The warning, then allow time for improvement.

No improvement, then the firing will not be a surprise to her.

Yeah, it sucks. But if it makes the place run smoother, then you've improved a bunch of lives.

Now, about this robe ... got pictures???
:hi:

[NewWaveChick1981]

47. Thanks, JustABozo....

:hi: I appreciate it. :)

I posted some red robe pics a long while back, but I think that was before you joined us. :P