Have you ever thought like this?

[Th1onein]

I have worked for many years at the "low end" of the scale. I have lived for years in dark, hard poverty. In the past five or ten years, either I got lucky, or all of that work has paid off (probably both)--I make a lot of money. But my family doesn't. And other people that I know and care about don't, either.

Have you ever felt that you should not spend luxuriously on yourself until those around you who you love and care about are put into a position of security, in terms of the basics of life?

This just makes sense to me, for some reason. And, when I look around me, at people who have so much, and who are so secure, and I see that they have family members who are needy, it just shocks me that they can continue to spend like they do on luxuries. I just don't get it. How can they enjoy those luxuries knowing that someone that they care about is doing without a necessity of life?

[pitohui]

1. because some family members are hopelessly forever needy

i have a friend in your situation, he never had anything but grinding poverty until he was after 40, a few years ago

he has a brother who is a thief, who robbed his dying father of the entire inheritance, hundreds of thousands of dollars, who has robbed him personally of $50,000, who even now is living rental free courteous of my friend and sitting there smoking crack every day on what little remains of my friend's money after hurricane katrina

my friend after all his work and struggle to make something of himself will never have anything and never be able to retire because of this parasite brother who is probably smoking crack right now with my friend's money even as i speak

i don't judge anyone for not wanting to fund hopelessly needy family members, you are worthy of having a life, the poor will be with us always, i think even jesus said that, if you can't enjoy life until you have provided for everyone financially that you care about, unless you're bill gates, it is never going to happen, because incomes just aren't that great for 99.9 percent of the people

most of the people you think are living such luxurious lives are in debt and tired of being dunned by the needy family member when they can't even pay their own bills

i remember when i was younger and my husband was recovering from surgery and we had nothing and no insurance -- some "needy" family member chose that moment to ask for a loan -- jesus, what's the matter with people? that "needy" family member had far more financially than i had, yet somehow she felt she had the right to spend my money and hers too?

[Th1onein]

2. I understand your situation, but this is different.

My family members are stoic, I guess. Only my daughter (who I am very proud and happy to spoil rotten) ever asks me for money or any kind of help at all. The rest just grind on.

I am in the process of taking their grindstones away. Giving them a "leg up," or whatever you want to call it. I am sure that, in some ways, they will always remain needy, but not in ways that I can do anything about.

Still, I do understand what you are talking about. There are those who just swill away anything and everything worthwhile. I don't bother with those kind of people; it is like throwing money into a black hole. Neither you, nor they, ever see the benefit from it.

[pitohui]

5. i see that but here's the thing

the people who are needy through no fault of their own have substantial medical issues, i could not earn enough money in my lifetime to pay their bills, there is no help i could give and continue to live, hell, even if i bought life insurance and committed suicide after the waiting period even that amount of money wouldn't be enough

i don't know anyone who has serious problems who can be helped by the amount of money that one household can reasonably earn and still support their own household

your income would have to be really high

i don't know how people who have divorces, etc. in their own immediate family can do it, i don't understand where the money can come from to support more than one household on today's low incomes

i have the smallest house in town and a 15 year old car, yet there are those who think i am living in the lap of luxury based on god knows what, my zip code, i guess, not understanding that there is simply nothing extra, at some point i feel like i am entitled to enjoy life a little bit because i only get one life to a customer

this idea that i should not enjoy any little luxury because i have people i care about who are also struggling, it isn't fair, is it? i mean, when they get a little bit, they certainly don't turn it over to me

it seems like the person who saves a little bit ends up being demanded of their money by the loved one who can't or won't save, if you are ever to keep anything, you've got to resist that kind of guilt

i think maybe i can't explain it clearly

but i refuse to feel guilty for doing nice things for myself once in awhile

[guitar man]

7. Bingo!!

it seems like the person who saves a little bit ends up being demanded of their money by the loved one who can't or won't save, if you are ever to keep anything, you've got to resist that kind of guilt

i think maybe i can't explain it clearly

but i refuse to feel guilty for doing nice things for myself once in awhile

That's right. It's your money, you worked for it and it's up to you how/when/where to spend it. I have found that the key to being an effective giver is to never be motivated by guilt in giving. That road will eat you and your pennies up.

[Th1onein]

10. I am never motivated by guilt.

I am motivated by love, I like to think. My family doesn't ask me for anything. We are all extremely independent people. But it's absolutely lovely to be able to give a home to someone that you love. Or provide a car. Or pay some bills. It's a wonderful thing to make something possible that would not have been possible without you doing it.

You don't even have to have money to do this, although money does make life easier, no matter what the corporations would have us believe. You can lend your time, or your expertise, or even just your thoughts, or empathy.

For me, I am simple. It does not take much to please me. I have a shelter over my head, food, transportation, and the means to maintain it all. Why shouldn't I take the rest of it and fill in the holes in someone else's life, who does not have these very basic things?

On edit, yes, sometimes I am motivated by guilt. But not in this regard. This just seems to make good sense to me.

[pitohui]

14. i could never afford to gift homes and cars!

i don't think most people can afford to give such gifts, it's wonderful that you can but i can't even imagine a legal way i could earn such income if i lived for a thousand years :-(

[guitar man]

3. I've been up and down

I've been up and down the scale all my life, more down than up I think. I'm doing ok now, not rich by any stretch of the imagination though.

I have a sister that has been down ever since I can remember. Everyone in the family including me has gone into our pockets time and time again trying to help her and her kids out. Time and time again, she has made bad choice on top of bad choice in a downward spiral pattern and never seemed to learn from her mistakes.

Finally, after she had tapped every last one of us over and over for money that we will never see again, we all finally stopped throwing cash at her. Lo and behold, she eventually started making progress and got up on her own two feet in her late 40s. Her kids growing up and moving out one by one helped some I guess, but we saw her habits change drastically, finally.

Be careful who you decide to "help" and why. If you're not careful, they can wind up dragging you back down there with them.

[pitohui]

4. this is a good post

not only does the help drag you down but it can drag the person you enable down -- they are never given a chance to save their own lives

[guitar man]

6. Exactly

I laid awake many nights over her situation. Giving her money time and time again caused problems with my wife, and rightfully so. She got a raw deal in the form of a husband that up and ran off one day, leaving her with 4 kids and no support. She hadn't been to college so it left her with only the ability to work piss poor wage jobs and the problem of what to do with the kids while she did work, but.....

her constant problems stretched on year after year after year and any attempts that any of us in the family made to get her going just seemed to leave her sliding backwards.

[Nicole]

8. No

I've provided some family members with the basics instead of splurging on myself many times. However I don't feel any guilt when I do choose to splurge on myself.

I have a sibling who has never learned to save for a rainy day. He has to have the newest and the best of everything. He's constantly in the red. He is always asking me for money to "tide him over". I no longer give it. He knows he can always come here to eat if he's hungry and sleep here if he gets evicted. However I refuse to be his personal ATM.

[Th1onein]

12. I agree with you.

But, there are situations when you see someone mired in poverty, and you know that they work so very hard, trying to just maintain that poverty state. Sometimes, you have to give them a leg up.

By this person's standards, you live in HIGH luxury. I just can't see that. If I have everything that I need, and more, then why should someone I love do without anything that they need.

I can see if they piss the money away. But, sometimes, there are ways that you can assure yourself that that won't happen.

[Nicole]

16. I agree with you too.

Those who are mired in poverty get all the help I can give. Absolutely, no questions about it.

I have everything I need, and most of what I want, so I can afford to be generous with loved ones. So I am, except for that one. He will take & take but it will never be enough. There is no need for him to need that much help. He earns in the 6 figures but spends every dime of it.

[some guy]

9. somewhat

Like many people, I have been up and down economically. When I was young, I sort of bought into the materialist mindset a bit, and bought things for myself. Not a real high-dollar things, and not that many, but some. It didn't really make my life any better, or answer any of the myriad questions I have spent most my life trying to answer, so I let go of materialism.

I make what I consider almost a lot of money, I can live on about half what I get in net income. But I'm not materialistic, and I don't make any effort to live luxuriously, so I do find myself trying to help family and friends financially a bit.

With regard to security in terms of the basic necessities of life, life seems so uncertain to me, I'm not sure it's possible to achieve a true level of security. I know that even as I am offering assistance to someone I care about, in a year or two, or less, it could easily be me in need.

I do it for the compassion, and trying to put kindness into the world.

:hug:

:hi: my good-hearted friend. :loveya:

[Th1onein]

13. Hi Someguy! You are so right about the uncertainty of life.......

It could be me, as well, with the high cost of healthcare these days.

But it does make the world a better place to live in. We are all responsible for what our own world turns out to be, in the end. And that starts with each of us, as individuals. In fact, it is my belief that we are defined by these choices.

[Xipe Totec]

11. ...

Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) - Everything's Alright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

[hippywife]

15. After reading all the posts

in this thread to this point, I can only say that your heart and mind are in the right place, my friend.

We live from paycheck to paycheck for the most part but when we do have a little extra, we have made sure that someone in need wasn't overlooked.

Live simply so others may simply live is a great motto to live by when being tempted by the materialism that surrounds us.

I wish you well. :hi:

[Th1onein]

17. That is a beautiful sentiment, Hippywife!

Live simply so others may simply live! I'm going to have to remember that!